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Blergh... I just CAN'T cope with these stories...

24

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  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon

    It seems to me that this game was meant to be played via: class stories, PVP and heroic (group) quests. Get to 50, rinse and repeat. Everything else is just extremely sub-par. Side quests are a space-bar grind, flashpoints are uninspiring and unrewarding while space combat, well, you know.

     

     

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 8,063Member Common
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    True, OP.  I played Jedi at first, and got bored of the story incredibly quickly. I played all the classes to level 10-20 at least, and Jedi to 38 or so, but it never really got any better. Sith Inquisitor was the only story that was actually any good, in my opinion, but by the time I started playing it, I was pretty burnt out.

    Personally, it's not the stories though, that got me annoyed, it was the voices of the characters. I hated having my character in cutscenes with voices/accents I didn't like, which of course, made their stories even worse. I put up with the Inquisitors shitty accent, 'cause the story was decent, but meh.

    SWTOR needs a complete overhaul to be worth playing, though. There's a couple good stories, but aside from that, it's beyond mindless, copy-pasted boring bullshit.

    It's probably the one time in my life I actually WISHED a game was shut down, and hopefully never spoken of again.

    That's the problem with so much voiceover, that you can't chose a voice. Some voices really fit the idea; personally I liked the Sith Inquisitor. The sarcasm really echoed my feeling towards the story. But the two Jedi are so NOT "my voice".

     

    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Corehaven

    The Jedi storyline is known for being bland and pretty bad as far as I know. 

     

    Agreed, they were bland in the prequels too.  Which is why I busted out laughing at "Order 66" in the theater.  Ahhhh...good times.  Also hilarious?  When Anakin was burned nearly in half.  It was like watching Justin Beiber catch fire.  If only. 

    I almost cried when they issued Order 66 you heartless monster! The pain that Yoda felt...you're cold.

    Hehe, ahh yeah me too. Order 66 was painful. :(

     

     

    The point is... I said a long time ago, ALWAYS being heroic simply doesn't work in a MMO! And that is the end of the "story" for me. I love heroic characters, I love heroic stories. But there is no believable counterweight. They try to pump up every hoopscotch's story to heroic proportions and fall flat on their faces with that, because if EVERY NPC highlights DRAAAAMAAA, it ends up as a mockery that NOTHING feels dramatic and it more has an unintentionally funny moment. At least it felt for me that way with them trying so forceful to be always heroic and dramatic. That is just overextension of the dramatic idea, and sorry even I know that THAT is shitty storytelling usually made on teenage fanfic levels, because young and inexperienced writers know little of how a real dramatic storytelling works.

    The OLD Trilogy was ideal in dramatic story arcs. From simple to grand and back, witty and funny, serious and gruesome - it was one wonderful ride and a real dramatic arc, classic storytelling. But SWTOR much like the New Trilogy just tries to be dramatic ALL the time, and that is not how good storytelling works!

     

    It would have been much better for instance, if the planet quests were just mindless text. Nothing where you have the feeling an artificially pumped up story was forced down your throat. And I am sorry to say, WOW normal-quests were often MUCH MUCH better, especially the content since WotLK and CATA. The stories behind many of these average simple quests were fun enough, sometimes gloomy, sometimes funny, sometimes mysterious. Never the same tone. And often what you did was SO creative. I recall I flew as an Owl to spy on enemies. I did so many weird and wonderful things in WOW in the later added quests. THAT was creative! THAT was diverse! Or about 50% of the LOTRO content, especially in the middle level area and the early levels, especially the Book Quests, THAT was creative, diverse and cool! It balanced the funny drinking contests or Mail Delivery and escape curious Hobbits from intercepting you to the drama of Angmar area! THAT was diverse in tone, setting and storytelling, and behind the super diverse and creative quests of LOTRO and WOW I am afraid SWTOR falls LEAGUES behind, mostly.

    One possibility would have also been at least SOME sandbox elements to lighten it up. Having a house and player city, having a goddamn farm or shop as in UO days, to break the heroic monotony. And WHY on earth did they NOT add alien characters? I have a red faced Sith Jedi. And no NPC ever reacts to that. Why was it so bloody important not to add Alien playables? For all the NPCs say I could just as well be a hairy Bothan or a Nautolan, because they never care ANYWAY. For a game which SO MUCH touted out story and consequences, sorry that is just very very little in their own aspirations.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • pioneer08pioneer08 iowa, IAPosts: 76Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Out of boredom and curiosity I went back to one sub months. I made my peace with lots of things, like the barren worlds and stuff. But many of the stories... so they are just SO bad.Agent, Inquisitor and Smuggler, those were good stories. But Jedi... good grief, it's like a fanfic! So so so stereotype. Not a cent of humor. It's like what Mark Hammill said, when he first saw the New Trilogy, that it was so damn serious and no humor. Indeed. That was the big difference between Old and good and the mediocre New Trilogy. WAAAAY too serious. It's always noble Jedi, selfless bla blah... do those Jedi EVER get tired of their calender-wisdom? I mean, their sayings could be right outside a cheap horoscope!And many, many of the planetary quests are just as awful. Sorry, but for a company claiming to take STORY so important, most of the stories SUCK. I mean, ok  they don't suck, but they are on a level like a fanfic! Save the sick master, get the princess... bla bla. God, can a story get anymore stereotype and lame? EVERY NPC: "Oh save my farm/shop/family from the evil XYZ. And to do that you must take the Y from the END of the cave and wade through all mobs."JEDI: "Verily, honorable stranger to whom I owe nothing,  it is my duty as Jedi to work for free! It was the will of the Force I came here to save your precious cake/diary/daughter/waffle collection." Yeah. VERY creative writing. NOT!Zzzzzzzzz....

     

    So now even "spotlight" posters can form post just to bash a game? You lost all credibility by starting out with "out of curiositu and bordom". What level did you get your characters? The stories are SO bad? That is a joke I like a lot of people I know love the stories. Then you go on to whine about the quest? The only purpose I see of this post is to (insert word you cant say here) I would say to you very creative writing NOT!
  • MarcelinoMarcelino BlackburnPosts: 116Member Uncommon

    If you want creative writing play the secret world. Dam them quest givers twisted my mind!! lol 

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/375157

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    Well the sith warior storries had some bad writing.  The time when you medic dude tries to kill you.  That entire story line about robots being your weakest link., then he begs for his life.  Most sith would have made an example out of him. 

    Sith inquisitor story from start to finish, you got to wonder about why you are a vampire.

    Then some of the side quests.  LIke the one daily on bellsaviv.  The 3 sith brother ones, talk about borring and you hit the space bar on it. 

    There are so many others, too many to fill a page with.  However there were some good stories, like bounty hunter at least it made a lot of sence. 

     

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Corehaven

    The Jedi storyline is known for being bland and pretty bad as far as I know. 

     

    Agreed, they were bland in the prequels too.  Which is why I busted out laughing at "Order 66" in the theater.  Ahhhh...good times.  Also hilarious?  When Anakin was burned nearly in half.  It was like watching Justin Beiber catch fire.  If only. 

    I almost cried when they issued Order 66 you heartless monster! The pain that Yoda felt...you're cold.

    I laughed as well. I thought Yoda told Anakin to rejoice when someone dies, because they're part of the Force now. Then he gets all sad... hypocrite!

    I hated the Jedi in the prequels. Just cold and sterile, and so detached from their own emotions that they couldn't even teach Anakin how to properly deal with missing his mother. And we all saw how THAT turned out...

    Purging their corrupt, arrogant order from the galaxy was doing civilization a service.

    As far as SWTOR goes, I mostly played the Empire side (finished Agent, other classes to about 30). Agent story was really good, and to me shows exactly why the Sith Empire ultimately loses the war. The others showed a lot of promise as well. I did play a trooper to about 40 and found the story to be mostly just okay.

    I will agree that most of the planetary storylines were pretty amateurish and predictable, and at times tough to slog through to get to the good bits. A shame, really.

  • dimnikardimnikar ZanistanvillePosts: 271Member

    I liked all SW movie stories, but this is a MMO and I have no idea how the story is because I skipped *ALL OF IT*.

     

    It has no place in this type of game. Maybe if I played it alone (I didn't), I'd listen to the odd dialogue here and there, but with other people?

     

    Such a collosal display of misunderstanding the genre on the developers part. And soooo much money sunk into this aspect, as well. So sad.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal
     

    That's the problem with so much voiceover, that you can't chose a voice. Some voices really fit the idea; personally I liked the Sith Inquisitor. The sarcasm really echoed my feeling towards the story. But the two Jedi are so NOT "my voice".

     

    The game plays exactly like current bioware games. If you had a problem with other bioware games then this would have been no different.

    You've ranted against this game so many times and out of boredeom you went back again? Couldn't you "out of boredom" done anything else? Even played a game you liked?

    So some voices were yours and some were not. Kind of like life. Some things are great and some things not.

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by jpnz

    SWTOR stays very true to Star Wars actually.

    Which is why it is a good Star Wars story. Whether you like Star Wars story or not is personal preference.

    There are huge differences between being true to Star Wars and good story telling.

    These were stories, true to Star Wars lore, told badly.

    Your statement reads like, 'if you don't like these stories, you don't like star wars' and I  have one response to that;

    Do you love star wars stories?

    How did you feel about the Phantom Menace?

    Sometimes Star Wars stories can be told badly.

    Personally I liked the prequel trilogy. But I don't think there was any way they could have won on those movies. Some fans were gonna hate anything they did. Because lets face it, fans are bitches these days.

    Pretty much, the moment a new movie is released people have pretty much already decided that it won't be as good as the original.

    Not to mention it's hard to recapture the magic of the original movies because many of us were kids when we first saw them.

    And of course the original trilogy didn't have Jar Jar... =P

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member

    I know, right?! I tought I was the only one since my friends liked the jedi story soooo much, and I was the only one who hated it.

    I find the inquisitor story line kinda the best, it has it all I'd say. Tho, I think you can always be funny with the empire characters (I haven't tried the agent) but they're stuck up and afraid for their life so I couldn't expect humor from them. :D

     

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  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by korent1991

    I know, right?! I tought I was the only one since my friends liked the jedi story soooo much, and I was the only one who hated it.

    I find the inquisitor story line kinda the best, it has it all I'd say. Tho, I think you can always be funny with the empire characters (I haven't tried the agent) but they're stuck up and afraid for their life so I couldn't expect humor from them. :D

     

    Try it! The Agent's widely agreed to be the best storyline in the game!

    It does a very good job of conveying the whole "secret agent" feel and has some fun plots.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member

    I hated...LOATHED the trooper story.  Thought it was the corniest story line and responses ever, was a constant /rolleyes thing with it.  Maybe thats just the prior service in me and hate motto talk.

    The trooper story was what made me play the smuggler for a while.  I loved the story line there at least what I saw.

     

    But yeah, I found the Jedi very bland and a snoozefest.  Never made past the tutorial palent with em.

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by jpnz

    SWTOR stays very true to Star Wars actually.

    Which is why it is a good Star Wars story. Whether you like Star Wars story or not is personal preference.

    There are huge differences between being true to Star Wars and good story telling.

    These were stories, true to Star Wars lore, told badly.

    Your statement reads like, 'if you don't like these stories, you don't like star wars' and I  have one response to that;

    Do you love star wars stories?

    How did you feel about the Phantom Menace?

    Sometimes Star Wars stories can be told badly.

    Personally I liked the prequel trilogy. But I don't think there was any way they could have won on those movies. Some fans were gonna hate anything they did. Because lets face it, fans are bitches these days.

    Pretty much, the moment a new movie is released people have pretty much already decided that it won't be as good as the original.

    Not to mention it's hard to recapture the magic of the original movies because many of us were kids when we first saw them.

    And of course the original trilogy didn't have Jar Jar... =P

    But it did have C3P0...which original fans refuse to admit he was just as bad as binks

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,641Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ambros123

    The trooper story was what made me play the smuggler for a while.  I loved the story line there at least what I saw.

    I'm currently playing a Smuggler, his story and dialogues are very cool indeed.

     

    Originally posted by Bossalinie

    But it did have C3P0...which original fans refuse to admit he was just as bad as binks

    A different breed of idiot.

    C3PO is closer to the funny gay butler, compared to the entertainment for five year olds that Jar Jar provides.

    Of course they are both bumbling idiots that trip over everything...

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    Sith Assassin was fun, it was the only char I got to 50 and my first character in game.

     

    My other three chars (Trooper, IA, Smuggler) are stuck somewhere between 20-26. Lost motivation to go through all the planets again in pretty much the same order.

     

    Will continue my Imperial Agent if they add alternative leveling zones like Age of Conan has.

     

    e.g. in Age of Conan I can level each alt in another land, Kithai expansion landscapes, Cimmeria, Aquilonia or Stygia.

    http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110509070318/aoc/images/8/8b/Hyboria_Map.jpg

     

    SWTOR would have to add another 30 planets or so to reach the diversity of AoC.

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  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by jpnz

    SWTOR stays very true to Star Wars actually.

    Which is why it is a good Star Wars story. Whether you like Star Wars story or not is personal preference.

    There are huge differences between being true to Star Wars and good story telling.

    These were stories, true to Star Wars lore, told badly.

    Your statement reads like, 'if you don't like these stories, you don't like star wars' and I  have one response to that;

    Do you love star wars stories?

    How did you feel about the Phantom Menace?

    Sometimes Star Wars stories can be told badly.

    Considering the prequels are actual SW stories, yes I liked them.

    Course I loved EP4-6 more but I like all SW stories.

    If you don't like the prequels, you don't like SW stories since the prequels are actual official SW stories. This isn't rocket science.

    Well it isn't rocket science, but it isn't kindergarden either. SW stories can be told badly. SW stories can have poorly written dialogue. SW stories can have actors who do a poor job with poor dialogue. 

    The prequels were good sw stories told poorly, just as I believe the SWToR stories were told poorly - 

    so no it is not rocket science, but it is at least a university level understanding of literature, language arts, creative writing and film.

    It is thoroughly possible to like SW but not like how some of the cannon was portrayed. I know it is possible, because it is how I and many many others feel.

  • pioneer08pioneer08 iowa, IAPosts: 76Member
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Sith Assassin was fun, it was the only char I got to 50 and my first character in game. My other three chars (Trooper, IA, Smuggler) are stuck somewhere between 20-26. Lost motivation to go through all the planets again in pretty much the same order. Will continue my Imperial Agent if they add alternative leveling zones like Age of Conan has. e.g. in Age of Conan I can level each alt in another land, Kithai expansion landscapes, Cimmeria, Aquilonia or Stygia.http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110509070318/aoc/images/8/8b/Hyboria_Map.jpg SWTOR would have to add another 30 planets or so to reach the diversity of AoC.

     

    AoC has been out for almost 6 yrs. It has what three expansion no kidding it may be more diverse than SWTOR. I also play AoC but as my alternate game. People who complain and compare games that have been out for 6+ yrs with multiple expansions to game brand new game I will never understand. AoC did not have the diversity you speak of over 5 yrs ago fyi.
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblad

     Try it! The Agent's widely agreed to be the best storyline in the game!

    It does a very good job of conveying the whole "secret agent" feel and has some fun plots.

    I hated the agent story and thought it was soo boring. So by the logic in this thread it's bad and should be changed, and it's not me that should just play another class.

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Darth-Batman
    Originally posted by asmkm22

    I thought the Jedi Knight story was pretty good, if not one of the best.  It's a jedi, so I kind of went into it expecting certain things. Also, some of the quests had some truly funny dialogue, especially the dark side stuff.

    The stories are one of the few good things about the game, honestly.  But sure, I guess if you're expecting Oscar-winning scripts or something, then you're in for some disappointment. 

    Pretty much.

    I only played Jedi and I rather enjoyed the stories. I mean, I'm not playing now but it had nothing to do with the stories lol. To each his own I spose. 

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member

    AoC came out 4.5 years ago. (May 20/23 2008)

    SWTOR is now a year old. (13 months)

    At some point, saying "SWTOR is new, give it time", is going to start getting old.

    Even Vanilla WoW, whitch you alternatively claim had little content on release, to had years to add content conversely, had 12 content patches in its first 17 months of exsistence before it's first paid expansion.

    SWTOR has had arguably 2 decent sized content patches in 13 months.

    Sorry if I seem a bit grumpy, (it's Monday) but at this point it seems best to hope Makeb releases sooner rather then later, (slated for the amorphous "Spring") and hope between the increased revenue from Cartel and DLC sales, SWTOR's amount of content release improves from it's rather slow pace.

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    Originally posted by Ambros123

    The trooper story was what made me play the smuggler for a while.  I loved the story line there at least what I saw.

    I'm currently playing a Smuggler, his story and dialogues are very cool indeed.

     

    Originally posted by Bossalinie

    But it did have C3P0...which original fans refuse to admit he was just as bad as binks

    A different breed of idiot.

    C3PO is closer to the funny gay butler, compared to the entertainment for five year olds that Jar Jar provides.

    Of course they are both bumbling idiots that trip over everything...

    Hmmm JarJar.... ugh.  Absolutely love this pic though of JarJar

    http://cdn.motinetwork.net/demotivationalposters.net/image/demotivational-poster/small/1007/and-that-star-wars-jar-jar-stormtrooper-elbow-pwnt-demotivational-poster-1277969749.jpg

    ... if only the Trooper story was like that.

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member
    Originally posted by pioneer08
    Originally posted by FromHell

    Sith Assassin was fun, it was the only char I got to 50 and my first character in game.

     

    My other three chars (Trooper, IA, Smuggler) are stuck somewhere between 20-26. Lost motivation to go through all the planets again in pretty much the same order.

     

    Will continue my Imperial Agent if they add alternative leveling zones like Age of Conan has.

     

    e.g. in Age of Conan I can level each alt in another land, Kithai expansion landscapes, Cimmeria, Aquilonia or Stygia.

    http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110509070318/aoc/images/8/8b/Hyboria_Map.jpg

     

    SWTOR would have to add another 30 planets or so to reach the diversity of AoC.

     

    AoC has been out for almost 6 yrs. It has what three expansion no kidding it may be more diverse than SWTOR. I also play AoC but as my alternate game. People who complain and compare games that have been out for 6+ yrs with multiple expansions to game brand new game I will never understand. AoC did not have the diversity you speak of over 5 yrs ago fyi.

    Unless they added new lvling zones post launc (doubtful they did) then AoC definately by far had more diversity as you had multiple zones you could chose from to lvl.  One of the biggest criticisization of SWTOR was how the questing zones was so dreadful linear, that there was no real deviation from you questing zone routine... actually think there was absolutely none since you had to follow your story.  Which furthur shows how dreadful linear it was.  The should have had alternate planets you progressed to which should have been based on a branching class story.  But instead they went the ME route and just made a god aweful linear experiance.

  • pioneer08pioneer08 iowa, IAPosts: 76Member
    Originally posted by tiefighter25

    AoC came out 4.5 years ago. (May 20/23 2008)SWTOR is now a year old. (13 months)At some point, saying "SWTOR is new, give it time", is going to start getting old.Even Vanilla WoW, whitch you alternatively claim had little content on release, to had years to add content conversely, had 12 content patches in its first 17 months of exsistence before it's first paid expansion.SWTOR has had arguably 2 decent sized content patches in 13 months.Sorry if I seem a bit grumpy, (it's Monday) but at this point it seems best to hope Makeb releases sooner rather then later, (slated for the amorphous "Spring") and hope between the increased revenue from Cartel and DLC sales, SWTOR's amount of content release improves from it's rather slow pace.

     

    Again AoC 4.5 yrs ago was not as diverse at the poster said. I am not saying swtor is new give it time I am saying if you want to compare games compare at or close to the same time frame. Your example of wow vanilla is fine I did not play or follow wow so have no idea if your 12 content patches and swtor "2" are comparable. But right around the corner swtor is releaseing another content patch and than in the spring the expansion.
  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member
    I think the stories are fine. I think the problem with trying to enjoy something with prejudgments and expecations is not going for the ride, and trying to steer becuase you are old enough to drive.. The stories are enjoyable and they have their moments, and personally I wish it was handled a bit differently, but its still good story.,

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by jpnz

    SWTOR stays very true to Star Wars actually.

    Which is why it is a good Star Wars story. Whether you like Star Wars story or not is personal preference.

    There are huge differences between being true to Star Wars and good story telling.

    These were stories, true to Star Wars lore, told badly.

    Your statement reads like, 'if you don't like these stories, you don't like star wars' and I  have one response to that;

    Do you love star wars stories?

    How did you feel about the Phantom Menace?

    Sometimes Star Wars stories can be told badly.

    Considering the prequels are actual SW stories, yes I liked them.

    Course I loved EP4-6 more but I like all SW stories.

    If you don't like the prequels, you don't like SW stories since the prequels are actual official SW stories. This isn't rocket science.

    Well it isn't rocket science, but it isn't kindergarden either. SW stories can be told badly. SW stories can have poorly written dialogue. SW stories can have actors who do a poor job with poor dialogue. 

    The prequels were good sw stories told poorly, just as I believe the SWToR stories were told poorly - 

    so no it is not rocket science, but it is at least a university level understanding of literature, language arts, creative writing and film.

    It is thoroughly possible to like SW but not like how some of the cannon was portrayed. I know it is possible, because it is how I and many many others feel.

    Its also meant to entertain a large audience. So its not going to use complex wording, which I have no problems enjoying along with complex story which may feel like a puzzle. However, almost anything can feel cliche since its has been done before. The only way to not be cliche is either keep it simple or really go big in some way, which can make the game feel like its directed towards a niche market.

    Not to put you in the spot, but if you thought of an outline of an alternative story for the jedi, do you think others would think it is better than the outline of the existing story of the jedi , for example, in swtor?

    The point is that people have their own ideas, and dont like storytelling, and rather tell the story or maybe are just accustomed to a specific style of story. So you say others agree with you, but maybe its not so much so the story but a story told in a game that is not enjoyable for you?

    So... think about the outline idea, and how it might make you realize that point.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

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