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open-world and supports up to 2000 players

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  • aslan132aslan132 Tampa, FLPosts: 378Member Uncommon

    Clearly some of you dont understand what open world is. Open world is not the opposite of instanced. Open world is the opposite of linear. 

     

    Open world does not mean that there are no zones, or instances, or load screens. It means that there are no artificial barriers or invisible walls WITHIN those zones, or instances. It means you are free to roam across the entire instance, jumping, climbing or running around without encountering obstacles. 

     

    This can easily be an open world PvP. And yes, Gw2 is open world, both the PvE and the WvW. Sorry your definition doesnt fit in with the rest of everyone elses, but its much easier for you to accept the game industries standard than to try to redifine everyone elses into your personal idea.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by aslan132

    Clearly some of you dont understand what open world is. Open world is not the opposite of instanced. Open world is the opposite of linear. 

     

    Open world does not mean that there are no zones, or instances, or load screens. It means that there are no artificial barriers or invisible walls WITHIN those zones, or instances. It means you are free to roam across the entire instance, jumping, climbing or running around without encountering obstacles. 

     

    This can easily be an open world PvP. And yes, Gw2 is open world, both the PvE and the WvW. Sorry your definition doesnt fit in with the rest of everyone elses, but its much easier for you to accept the game industries standard than to try to redifine everyone elses into your personal idea.

    GW2 WvW is a persistant open world just not tied to the questing world per say so basically it's own little world.. but instancing how i always read the definition is when the zone, dungeon, map, whatever creates a copy of itself to accomodate more people or groups of people.. for me then it can lose it's feel of a persistant map since you log in one day and could be in another instance of the zone.. in WvW that wouldn't happen. But honestly ill have to wait and try it to really make any sort of solid judgement.. if done well it still could be a lot of fun.

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  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by aslan132

    Clearly some of you dont understand what open world is. Open world is not the opposite of instanced. Open world is the opposite of linear. 

     

    Open world does not mean that there are no zones, or instances, or load screens. It means that there are no artificial barriers or invisible walls WITHIN those zones, or instances. It means you are free to roam across the entire instance, jumping, climbing or running around without encountering obstacles. 

     

    This can easily be an open world PvP. And yes, Gw2 is open world, both the PvE and the WvW. Sorry your definition doesnt fit in with the rest of everyone elses, but its much easier for you to accept the game industries standard than to try to redifine everyone elses into your personal idea.

    Open World PVP, in one bordered zone. Just like GW2 is open world PVP, because you can fight "openly" in a separate war instance.  Lol?

     

    In that context, you are correct.  As a standalone "Open World PVP" - no.  Segregations make the world so restrictive as to where a particular character can travel that it is not open world, even for PVE.  And without faction crossover zones other than the final PVP map, there is no "Open World PVP".  Just Open World PVP, in one bordered zone, which is a perversion of the meaning of open world.

     

    You may as well admit that there is nothing open world about TESO.  Or keep trying to convince yourself that the lacking qualities of TESO are what is making TESO equal to or better than the competition.  Makes just about as much sense.

     

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  • ThandrasThandras Huntington, WVPosts: 41Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by deakon

    Yes people will zerg but there will be more than one battle to zerg, and the chances of all 3 factions all zerging the exact same objective with 100% of their forces at the same time is very unlikely

     I have half a mind to try to convience my entire guild to get this game and plan out to get 300-400 of us to ALL ATTACK THE SAME PLACES to ruin as many of your experiences as possible for defending this idiotic plan of theirs with such a blind defense. The game is in BETA, NOW is the time to wake them up to this fact and get them to CHANGE it before its too late.

    If an idea is bad, SAY ITS BAD, dont defend it just because you may or may not like the game as a whole. It IS OK to say you like 95% of a game and still speak out about the 5% you DONT THINK IS A GOOD IDEA and this is NOT a good idea. They are making the entire game around these central PvP zones which makes it the single most important aspect of the game...to have 2000 player cap, yet limit what can been on screem to 200 smacks of a very large WTFH kinda stupid idea is this?!?

    Once very large guilds learn of this cap, they WILL EXPLOIT IT by having their people stay together and let OTHERs take the other objectives...

    And once again to everyone else...this is NOT an OPEN WORLD GAME. They are calling instances CAMPAIGNS, changing the word instance to something else does not change the fact that it is INSTANCED.

    jtcgs,

    Why all the hate? I mean, personally, I look at new games coming out and if I don't like what they have to offer, I simply don't buy/play them. It's a pretty simple philosophy. Just trying to get my head around why you and others are attacking the game.

    Is it that you are a huge fan of TES series and want to see the game be successful? Or is it that the game doesn't fit what YOUR vision of what a game should be?

    I can understand if you honestly want to try to help improve the game while it's still in beta but don't you think your purpose would be better served on the game's own website?

    In my opinion, (I know opinions are like assholes, we all have one and they all stink) if you're trying to help the game improve, you are going about it the wrong way. Seriously, threatening to get your guild to ruin others game experience? That just makes you seem like the little kid on the playground that has the only ball screaming at everyone else "If we don't play it my way, I'm going to take my ball and go home"!

    I don't have a personal stake in this game really. I like TES but not a huge fan, Skyrim was fun. I friggen loved DAOC pre-TOA and was dissapointed by GW2's attempt to recapture RvR. (that might be something that never happens. Nostalgia is a hard thing to duplicate) So, I will resume my sitting in the cheap seats and watching the text battle on the forums. I was just interested in yours and other attackers  motivation.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by aslan132

    Clearly some of you dont understand what open world is. Open world is not the opposite of instanced. Open world is the opposite of linear. 

     

    Open world does not mean that there are no zones, or instances, or load screens. It means that there are no artificial barriers or invisible walls WITHIN those zones, or instances. It means you are free to roam across the entire instance, jumping, climbing or running around without encountering obstacles. 

     

    In your mind this is the definition.

    It reality it is not.

    Quit trying to make things up to define what you want it to mean.

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  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by Toxia
    Originally posted by Ghostshadows

    PvP siege battle which looks like hundreds or even thousands of soldiers facing off against each other. Is a battle of this magnitude actually possible in the game, made up of human players?

    Every one of the figures in that video was a human player. We got all of our devs into the game for a PvP test, and then captured that sequence with them. It was all in-game. Cyrodiil (the PvP map) is open-world and supports up to 2000 players in it at the same time. ESO’s client is designed to be able to handle (on the recommended spec) 200 players on screen at the same time. That particular scene had about 115 players on each side.

     

    Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Elder-Scrolls-Online-interview---Matt-Firor/tabid/418/articleID/284162/Default.aspx#ixzz2IvayIfpT

    WEWT!

    ...

    Wait....what?

     

    Color me confused, how can it support 2k players, yet a person can only see 200 at one time.

    if it support 200 on screen, and are 3 factions, then itll be 60-70 person per side?

    Where does the other 1800 players...play?

    the network can keep track of 2k on the PvP map, but the recommended specs for internet feed and coms and all that mean after there are so many players withen a certan distance of you, lag will start to acure

    its not that the network cant keep up its that their is only so much information a internet line can handle at a time, and every player withen site is sending information through that line to you

    honestly 200 is a fairly large number, iv seen some games that start lagging around 50 or 100

    plus you got to think what in sire means its prob not very likely to have 200 people in site at one time unless ya got a very good vantage point

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
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  • Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It's the mega server that's the stupid idea. Not having cyrodil as a rvr area.

    Ideally we'd have a typical server system with healthy population, so I understand exactly what you mean when you say that. However, consider how all new big MMO releases see a massive influx of people, then lose a huge portion of them afterwards. This leads to empty areas and poor player experience all-around.

    The Megaserver system is a practical solution to this above problem. In this day and age, do the developers of TESO really have any business being arrogant enough to assume they'll be different and not lose tonnes of players like all the other AAA MMOs do a few months down the road?

  • I believe the "official" reason behind the Megaserver - that it sucks picking one server while your friend picks another without talking to you, and you now not being able to play together - is BS marketing because it doesn't sound to good if they go out and say what essentially means "we'll probably lose some players after launch."

    Two reasons for that being.

    1. I've never heard of anyone have that problem. When friends roll in a new game they coordinate on picking the same server. They communicate because, you know, they're friends?

    2. Megaservers don't solve this problem because characters of different factions can't play together. There's nothing preventing you and your "friend" whom you apparently never talk to, rolling on opposite factions.

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon

    Cyrodil is an open zone.. There we are all happy.

    You will probably zone in some how. Then all of Cyrodil is open to roam in .. You know the entire area in Oblivion? Yea it is huge. In that sense its going to be as open world as TES4 ..

    The other areas of the game.. All we know is that in previews people have went their own way and did what ever they wanted. How big or how small each area is we really dont know yet.. I havent seen any notes yet if the main faction areas are cut into smaller zones or not. The only thing I have seen so far is that the entire faction areas are cut off from each other.

    image

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    Good thing is Elder Scolls Online is reintroducing the Public Dungeons which are non-instanced.  Yet another feature that proves its not just another clone. 

     

    Personally myself I am not interested in the PvP so I dunno why I debate its merits so much here lately LOL.  I am only interested in the progression of my character and the aforementioned open world exploration and dungeons.  In fact to be honest, I am more interested in Neverwinter becasue of the possibilities of the foundry system, however I am looking forward to recreating my Skyrim experiences in a persistant open world setting.  Hopefully Paul Sage's comments of the level cap only being a 3rd of the way through your cahracters progression remains true.

    I'm happy about the Public Dungeons. I loved dungeon crawling in DAOC. Making your way to the very end of the dungeons were difficult, and when you did, you knew you were ready for the next dungeon up. Made most of our friends in DAOC just from dungeon hunting. Was fun times.

    image

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  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    Cyrodil is an open zone.. There we are all happy.

    You will probably zone in some how. Then all of Cyrodil is open to roam in .. You know the entire area in Oblivion? Yea it is huge. In that sense its going to be as open world as TES4 ..

    The other areas of the game.. All we know is that in previews people have went their own way and did what ever they wanted. How big or how small each area is we really dont know yet.. I havent seen any notes yet if the main faction areas are cut into smaller zones or not. The only thing I have seen so far is that the entire faction areas are cut off from each other.

    Please source where the size of TESO's Cyrodil is comparable to the area in Oblivion.  I would like to read more about this..

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  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    Cyrodil is an open zone.. There we are all happy.

    You will probably zone in some how. Then all of Cyrodil is open to roam in .. You know the entire area in Oblivion? Yea it is huge. In that sense its going to be as open world as TES4 ..

    The other areas of the game.. All we know is that in previews people have went their own way and did what ever they wanted. How big or how small each area is we really dont know yet.. I havent seen any notes yet if the main faction areas are cut into smaller zones or not. The only thing I have seen so far is that the entire faction areas are cut off from each other.

    Please source where the size of TESO's Cyrodil is comparable to the area in Oblivion.  I would like to read more about this..

    No links off the top of my head but they were in video interviews. Not only that how else could Cyrodil support up to 2000 players?

    image

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by SlyLoK
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by SlyLoK

    Cyrodil is an open zone.. There we are all happy.

    You will probably zone in some how. Then all of Cyrodil is open to roam in .. You know the entire area in Oblivion? Yea it is huge. In that sense its going to be as open world as TES4 ..

    The other areas of the game.. All we know is that in previews people have went their own way and did what ever they wanted. How big or how small each area is we really dont know yet.. I havent seen any notes yet if the main faction areas are cut into smaller zones or not. The only thing I have seen so far is that the entire faction areas are cut off from each other.

    Please source where the size of TESO's Cyrodil is comparable to the area in Oblivion.  I would like to read more about this..

    No links off the top of my head but they were in video interviews. Not only that how else could Cyrodil support up to 2000 players?

    np, I just never saw the 1:1 direct comparison before (ie not scaled down or up, etc).  16 km squared would be pretty big though ( ~2.5 miles on each side if it could be turned into a square).  It's reasonable for 2000 players though, like you said .. if the game can really handle that much, since it only really showed 200+ players.  Not sure how much of that is phased or instanced though.

     

    Just wondering, thanks for the reply.

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,492Member Uncommon

    Here is a simple fact...

    DAoC had PvP, it wasn't open world, didn't have full looting and was probably THEE best PvP game ever made. Why? Because it had entertainment value. It wasn't about running around ganking lowbies, it was about strategy, multiple battles in multiple territories all fighting over dominance and relic control.

    TESO is following suit...

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Well depends what server you played on, I played on mordred so plenty of ganking lowbies there. Don't know how the coop servers worked,,presume they had no pvp.
  • IkifalesIkifales tucson, AZPosts: 268Member Uncommon

    I am looking forward to this game but I would much more prefer real open world PvP.

    But If PvP has to be zoned, there needs to be way more "contested" zones than safe zones.

    I like being in danger while PVE questing, it makes questing more interesting.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw

    Here is a simple fact...

    DAoC had PvP, it wasn't open world, didn't have full looting and was probably THEE best PvP game ever made. Why? Because it had entertainment value. It wasn't about running around ganking lowbies, it was about strategy, multiple battles in multiple territories all fighting over dominance and relic control.

    TESO is following suit...

    DAoC had a great community and intense rivalry, until i see any other game come anywhere near the competitive play on a faction level in DAoC i'll reserve judgement on how similar they are.

    GW2 has very similar mechanics but was a pointless, directionless zerg fest. I have to wonder, if DAoC was released for the first time today, would it suffer the same fate?

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  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIPosts: 1,044Member Common
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Karteli

    To get to any meaningful PVP, doesn't everyone need to suffer through all the funneled themepark PVE content first, then get to endgame and do PVP "in the middle", since every faction is segregated?

     

     

    Where is this funneled PvE content you speak of?  If Funnled PvE content equals freedom to explore anywhere and go where ever you want is funneled....then yes PvE is funneled.

    Haters , don't mind them. I think they should just make a subsection of game called MMOPVP and that way pvpers don't have to worry about the actual role playing game stuff and can gank to their hearts content just like they were 13 again.  The idea that pvp is zoned makes me want to at least try this game. 

    I wouldn't even mind if they figured out how to do a Dark Cloud 2 system where pvp actions (not killing a bunch of people, but actually building a community) effected the real world in some type of statistical or item availablity area. 

    PVP takes away the realism of any game. No world has peopel , even of opposite factions, randomly killing folk for no particular reason other than i hate u, u hate me.  The only way I"d ever do open world pvp is if you had to join an army for it, and could only particupate in  organized battles according to a general. This would provide far more realistic impressino for me and force players to actually understand how real war and opposing factions work. 

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,217Member Uncommon
    Remember when Trion said something similar, how their server tech was so amazing that they could have thousands in the same area at once?  I'll believe it when I see it.  If they can pull it off they'll be king of the hill for sure.
  • LongLivePvPLongLivePvP LA, CAPosts: 102Member
    So is this like STO's servers? WHAT>?????

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  • JacobinJacobin Toronto, ONPosts: 697Member Uncommon

    It will be interesting to see how TESO world pvp turns out when the last 2 big games - GW2 and Planetside 2 had such contrasting results.

    I really like the faction region lock as I think that really adds to the rivalries and realm pride that was present in DAOC. I also like the idea of capturing specific objectives to 'win' like DAOC relics as opposed to the scoring system in GW2 which in the end wasn't that interesting and just promoted constant server hopping.

    I know a lot of people hate the idea of instancing, but if it prevents queue times like in GW2 and allows people to play with their friends and guild whenever they want then the cost is worth it.

    Planetside 2 gives me hope that world pvp can work well.

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    server hopping was a problem in DAoC as well.
  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by deakon

    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    Originally posted by ShakyMo Caliburn Why would it crash? Planetside 2 has simmilar player numbers per continent and doesn't crash. Daoc & planetside 1 managed perfectly well too.  
    Let me be as clear as possible then; 2000 people in a zone max. 200 people on your screen max. When the 2000 people come together for the 'final push' in defence or attack to take the throne - FAR MORE than 200 will be crowding your screen... ... crash... ... or do you think 1800 of them will voluntarily leave the last phases of the battle to a select 200?... ... or that the zone will be split into 10 different areas which have objectives which all have to be taken simultaneously to win?... ... no?... ... me neither.
    Your assuming there is just one big objective in the middle rather than lots spread out around the map

     

     

    Its already been said you need to capture and hold multiple keeps etc in order to "win" so there wont be a centralised "push" as it were because if you have your whole team on one keep one of the factions will just break off and capture those you have left alone

     


     

    Your joking right? Time and time again games have shown human nature in the majority is to ZERG

    Indeed it does.

    A large zerg will run around and at best I would expect (without strong multi-guild leadership and extremely effective coordination) a few to remain behind the zerg defending objectives which need to be held for the zerg to go for the final objective.

    Logic dictates absolutely that there will be a final objective - the capitol city on the island in the center of Cyrodil. It would be ridiculous to assume those in the zone will sit back on the shore while the 'chosen 200' rush to the center.

    Culling I would think is the only possible solution, and I hope, with the relevant amount of testing, that it can be programmed to deal with exploitation (large zerg crash-festing to prevent a win) or accidental overload (concentrated fighting over one currently critical location...).

    Concentrations of numbers WILL happen - and the server and program WILL have to have an effective way of dealing.

    We are many, many years past the assumption that player self-regulation will deal with the issue for us...

    ... that's just wishful thinking of the most naive kind I think...

  • oubersoubers bazelPosts: 876Member Common
    Originally posted by Tayah
    Originally posted by Toxia
    Originally posted by Tayah

    I hope it's very much like DAOC RvR areas were. If they do just that, I'll be happy. If it's like GW2, then I'll pass.

    Wasn't gw2 wvw made to mimic DaoC? What's different about them? Never got to play DaoC, enlighten me.

    GW2 did a S*&^ job of mimicking DAOC's RvR. GW2 is instanced and limits you to too few people. In DAOC Pre-ToA we had massive keep battles between all 3 sides. There were no limits of how many people could be in the RvR area. GW2 also you all you see is server tag of the other team you're fighting. With DAOC you got a message each time a person killed another, using their names. You'd see Briton, Norse, Avalonian, etc as your enemies above their heads, but once they were killed or you were killed you saw a message of the real character names. It was awesome.

    The RvR areas were the best coin loot in the game you could get from mobs so we'd go out there to pve at the risk of being ganked. If you saw a message, lets say, "Kevo has just killed Shimmer", you immediately started looking out because there was danger about and you could be ganked at any moment, so you'd be prepared to slay that person if they came your way.

    It was great rivalry between all 3 factions, and in those days when someone ganked you, instead of humping you they'd actually bow to you, to let you know, you fought well, and were a worthy opponent. People were more respectful in those days.

    the times when people actually bow to their apponent are gone m8....back in the days some people who killed you rezzed you again and where on their way.....THAT was gloryous pvp back then, with respect for the others.

    But get used to it that since then mmo's are for kids and not just adults anymore.

     

    image
  • wilqwilq warszawaPosts: 144Member
    When they fking learn that factions in "open" pvp leads to unbalance. Their will be always one faction which dominates pvp.
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