Originally posted by coltonjefferson Watch the introductory to Elder Scrolls Online and there is combat info in there.... The combat is going to be like how it is in Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind. You use the Left Click mouse button to attack and Right Click mouse button to block.
Humor me for a sec, If you replaced the word block, With interrupt. Would it not be the same implementation as what we see currently?
Considering it is also fact that there will be a hard lock tab target system?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
What it comes down to is not whether you prefer traditional mmo combat or action mmo combat.
What it comes down to is that for this to be called anything resembling a Elder Scrolls game, is must have certain elements from EVERY SINGLE elder scrolls game that came before, things that make it that kind of game.
It must have the original style, player control, no tab targeting, action style combat.
period.
If it does not, then it is just some pathetic, moronic, retarded, wannabe developer full of scum of the earth pathetic developers trying to cash in on the name "Elder Scrolls" while laughing the whole time to the bank about how they pulled a fast one on lovers of TES.
Now that being said, I have yet to see evidence pointing in a definite direction which way they will go with combat. Truthfully, I am not a fan of action MMO's like tera and the like/ BUT, I also know that if you start to change core mechanics of a game, mechanics that are as much apart of that game as your legs are to you, then you deserve to rot in the darkest place of game design hell, somewhere between SOE and EA.
Players loved TES as much for its combat as for its world and lore. If this game screws any of that over, it will into another SWTOR and plummet. Because there is one thing that fans do not like, and that is screwing with their games just to make a quick buck.
Originally posted by immodium So if Starcraft has a combat log you can call it turn based? Each unit attacks and defends with stats. You also have cooldowns in Starcraft.I always thought games like Civilization, X-Com and Chess are turn based.
Do you associate starcraft 2 with a tile map? Same systems used in 16bit zelda games? Yep its still present.
I've not played all MMO's so there might be Turn Based ones. Games like WoW, LotRo, SWtOR, GW2 etc are not Turn Based.
You just made it sound like the Turn Based genre got its name because people attack and defend through stats.
I never said it originated like that, Im trying to say its a type of turned based implementation.
In fairness TESO will probably a hybrid system that uses both ideas.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
As far as tab target issues, it's entirely optional. One can either use the tab targer system or go after the aim stuff like in TES games according to the Alpha build play demo given to those invited to the studio a while back.
What he/she said ^
In other words, you can use your crosshair to aim at what you want to hit. The thing or person you aim your crosshair at will have a red glowing "aura" of some sort.
Otherwise you can lock on your target, which I guess is using a key similar to Tab in most MMOs.
Sorry for the confusion, perhaps if you replace real time combat with action mmo combat that may help clear things up. I like games like TERA, Forge, Chivalry, etc. This is the kind of combat I want in a MMO. At some point it was age of conan but they do have tab targetting, but it's only really tab targeting for the ranges classes. The melee didn't have to tab target to land skills with DT as an exception.
When I say tab targetting I mean WoW and GW2, you rotate thru targets with the tab key and hit them with abilities automatically.
GW2 has the option to choose how you want to play...If you want to play like what you just described, you can.
But if you want to make it better for yourself and actually position your character the way you want and use your skills that's available as well. So if you decide to use a skill, but you're not close enough for your sword to reach the enemy, you'll miss and just swing at air.. For that kind of gameplay style you don't need the "tab targeting" because you just walk upto someone and start smashing him which is far better than the tab-targeting. It's a hybrid between tab-targetting and mouse targeting.
No real time combat means the game has turn-based combat or something simillar to that...
Example:
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
I'm expecting at best it'll be TERA like, at worse it'll probably respond as well as World of Warcraft does.
Moot point really. It's the fact there's hot bars and classes that'll ruin the combat for ESO. I mean I can handle it being more Morrowind than Oblivion with stats counting strikes or not, but following every other MMOs model out there with so much static progression is what causes the ick in my stomach to rise.
Originally posted by Ambros123Well.... aren't all MMOs real time combat? As far as tab target issues, it's entirely optional. One can either use the tab targer system or go after the aim stuff like in TES games according to the Alpha build play demo given to those invited to the studio a while back.
What he/she said ^
In other words, you can use your crosshair to aim at what you want to hit. The thing or person you aim your crosshair at will have a red glowing "aura" of some sort.
Otherwise you can lock on your target, which I guess is using a key similar to Tab in most MMOs.
Not to sound doom But, I think you will find there will be alot of "social pressure" to use hard lock targeting due to it being more "safe" and "Pro"
Good example of this is the new reticule targeting in tsw, I don't know anyone that uses it productively. (doesn't mean people still don't use it)
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I just don't want ranged and magic attacks being auto aimed we are in a time and place where even f2p games have free aiming with ranged weapons so there's no excuse they can't do it.
This game isnt tab target, tab is in the gamne but if you tab a target that your not aiming at you wont hit them, tab is there to call out targets and if your have a group of mobs stacked you can chose a specific one to hit, its a soft lock not a hard lock
Real Time Manual Targetting Combat is a huge pain bcs you have huge disparities between connections and pings and computer hardware giving some people an edge and some the backseat from that alone.
Also this type of combat will become a hackfest.
It sounds good in theory but neither the security nor the world wide web have made the needed technical advancements to offer it in an economical sustainable way.
Idealism doesnt work in anarchy...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
As far as tab target issues, it's entirely optional. One can either use the tab targer system or go after the aim stuff like in TES games according to the Alpha build play demo given to those invited to the studio a while back.
No ESO is entirely reticule based, Mouse turning, LMB to attack, RMB to block TES goodness. It is actiony and real time.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by immodium So if Starcraft has a combat log you can call it turn based? Each unit attacks and defends with stats. You also have cooldowns in Starcraft.I always thought games like Civilization, X-Com and Chess are turn based.
Do you associate starcraft 2 with a tile map? Same systems used in 16bit zelda games? Yep its still present.
I've not played all MMO's so there might be Turn Based ones. Games like WoW, LotRo, SWtOR, GW2 etc are not Turn Based.
You just made it sound like the Turn Based genre got its name because people attack and defend through stats.
I never said it originated like that, Im trying to say its a type of turned based implementation.
In fairness TESO will probably a hybrid system that uses both ideas.
Is it? Doesn't turn based imply once you have taken your turn you are then restricted to take another until your opponent has?
In all MMO's I have played I'm not restricted like that. I'm restricted in skills when I have used them, not because I have to wait for my enemy to take his turn.
Or is the auto attack feature in mmo's like that? I never pay attention to the auto attack function tbh.
Originally posted by immodium So if Starcraft has a combat log you can call it turn based? Each unit attacks and defends with stats. You also have cooldowns in Starcraft.I always thought games like Civilization, X-Com and Chess are turn based.
Do you associate starcraft 2 with a tile map? Same systems used in 16bit zelda games? Yep its still present.
I've not played all MMO's so there might be Turn Based ones. Games like WoW, LotRo, SWtOR, GW2 etc are not Turn Based.
You just made it sound like the Turn Based genre got its name because people attack and defend through stats.
I never said it originated like that, Im trying to say its a type of turned based implementation.
In fairness TESO will probably a hybrid system that uses both ideas.
Is it? Doesn't turn based imply once you have taken your turn you are then restricted to take another until your opponent has?
In all MMO's I have played I'm not restricted like that. I'm restricted in skills when I have used them, not because I have to wait for my enemy to take his turn.
Or is the auto attack feature in mmo's like that? I never pay attention to the auto attack function tbh.
People claiming that games like WoW,SWTOR,GW2 are "turn based" need to go play some real turn based games. What you said is right sir; they are just being silly. Turn based means that I take a turn, then you take a turn. If I am taking a turn you cannot do anything during that turn. Civ 5, FF13, Grandia, Xcom..those are turn based games. Everyone claiming that any mmo is turn based just doesn't like MMO combat in it's current form. I mean, you can't really blame them cause MMO combat sucks in general and you are being pretty naive if you think thats the reason people stick with MMOs.
The sad truth is that until we get combat similar to something we see in a single player game or more traditional action game like Call of Duty, Gears, or Ninja Gaiden; there will be people complaining about MMO combat. If you want a good combat system I suggest playing something that is not an MMO for that fix.
Most are. Atlantica Online, SAGA, Adventure Quest and a handful of others do turn-based.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Turn is quite literally defined as "a period of participation". There is nothing that says an opponent must take their turn before you are allowed to take yours. ESO has a gcd, and it will have instant attacks (versus all of them having a cast time of some sort) just like virtually every other mmo out there. That is what it means by "non action combat" and its the very same combat system they have been advertising since they made the announcement last fall.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Well I added all my posts to the original posts since apparently some people can't read the first 1 and 1/10th pages which containts clarification.
So far what I've gathered from this topic is no one is certain what the combat will be like. So I'll just wait for an actual gameplay video to figured out how the system works, similar to what I've done with GW2/SWTOR. Once a UI appears I'll have my answer.
wow and other mmo's like it, all auto attack mmos are turn base,
they are just using an active turn base where you can have a turn again like ff-x , duhh
wow for dam sure isn't real time action combat like tera or god of war... with real time blocking and dodging, not a stat that pops up saying you blocked..
plus wow type action there is no aiming at all, its all auto aim, which is just another dice roll whether you hit or not.. its glorified turn base dude
We have heard there is active blocking, ground targeted abilities and sprinting.
The devs always talk about how it will be like elder scrolls combat. Hopefully they look at the success of Chivalry and go in that direction.
Right, forgot to add Chivalry to my lists. Elder Scrolls needs to play like that but with abilities and such. I also liked Age of Conan combo system but can't see how that'd fit into ESO. All im hoping is we don't get a slew of homing attacks in the end, things that take no effort to land other than having the person targeted.
Comments
Do you associate starcraft 2 with a tile map? Same systems used in 16bit zelda games?
Yep its still present.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Humor me for a sec, If you replaced the word block, With interrupt. Would it not be the same implementation as what we see currently?
Considering it is also fact that there will be a hard lock tab target system?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
What it comes down to is not whether you prefer traditional mmo combat or action mmo combat.
What it comes down to is that for this to be called anything resembling a Elder Scrolls game, is must have certain elements from EVERY SINGLE elder scrolls game that came before, things that make it that kind of game.
It must have the original style, player control, no tab targeting, action style combat.
period.
If it does not, then it is just some pathetic, moronic, retarded, wannabe developer full of scum of the earth pathetic developers trying to cash in on the name "Elder Scrolls" while laughing the whole time to the bank about how they pulled a fast one on lovers of TES.
Now that being said, I have yet to see evidence pointing in a definite direction which way they will go with combat. Truthfully, I am not a fan of action MMO's like tera and the like/ BUT, I also know that if you start to change core mechanics of a game, mechanics that are as much apart of that game as your legs are to you, then you deserve to rot in the darkest place of game design hell, somewhere between SOE and EA.
Players loved TES as much for its combat as for its world and lore. If this game screws any of that over, it will into another SWTOR and plummet. Because there is one thing that fans do not like, and that is screwing with their games just to make a quick buck.
I've not played all MMO's so there might be Turn Based ones. Games like WoW, LotRo, SWtOR, GW2 etc are not Turn Based.
You just made it sound like the Turn Based genre got its name because people attack and defend through stats.
"No real time combat" means turn based combat.
And I'm pretty sure that ain't it.
From what I've heard to far you seem to have hotkeys but they retain the aspect of click to hit as well.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I never said it originated like that, Im trying to say its a type of turned based implementation.
In fairness TESO will probably a hybrid system that uses both ideas.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
What he/she said ^
In other words, you can use your crosshair to aim at what you want to hit. The thing or person you aim your crosshair at will have a red glowing "aura" of some sort.
Otherwise you can lock on your target, which I guess is using a key similar to Tab in most MMOs.
GW2 has the option to choose how you want to play...If you want to play like what you just described, you can.
But if you want to make it better for yourself and actually position your character the way you want and use your skills that's available as well. So if you decide to use a skill, but you're not close enough for your sword to reach the enemy, you'll miss and just swing at air.. For that kind of gameplay style you don't need the "tab targeting" because you just walk upto someone and start smashing him which is far better than the tab-targeting. It's a hybrid between tab-targetting and mouse targeting.
No real time combat means the game has turn-based combat or something simillar to that...
Example:
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
I'm expecting at best it'll be TERA like, at worse it'll probably respond as well as World of Warcraft does.
Moot point really. It's the fact there's hot bars and classes that'll ruin the combat for ESO. I mean I can handle it being more Morrowind than Oblivion with stats counting strikes or not, but following every other MMOs model out there with so much static progression is what causes the ick in my stomach to rise.
a yo ho ho
Not to sound doom But, I think you will find there will be alot of "social pressure" to use hard lock targeting due to it being more "safe" and "Pro"
Good example of this is the new reticule targeting in tsw, I don't know anyone that uses it productively. (doesn't mean people still don't use it)
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I just don't want ranged and magic attacks being auto aimed we are in a time and place where even f2p games have free aiming with ranged weapons so there's no excuse they can't do it.
Real Time Manual Targetting Combat is a huge pain bcs you have huge disparities between connections and pings and computer hardware giving some people an edge and some the backseat from that alone.
Also this type of combat will become a hackfest.
It sounds good in theory but neither the security nor the world wide web have made the needed technical advancements to offer it in an economical sustainable way.
Idealism doesnt work in anarchy...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
No ESO is entirely reticule based, Mouse turning, LMB to attack, RMB to block TES goodness. It is actiony and real time.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
That would be really bad programming. I hope that they could solve it.
Anyway it would make ranged combat so much overpowered.
Is it? Doesn't turn based imply once you have taken your turn you are then restricted to take another until your opponent has?
In all MMO's I have played I'm not restricted like that. I'm restricted in skills when I have used them, not because I have to wait for my enemy to take his turn.
Or is the auto attack feature in mmo's like that? I never pay attention to the auto attack function tbh.
People claiming that games like WoW,SWTOR,GW2 are "turn based" need to go play some real turn based games. What you said is right sir; they are just being silly. Turn based means that I take a turn, then you take a turn. If I am taking a turn you cannot do anything during that turn. Civ 5, FF13, Grandia, Xcom..those are turn based games. Everyone claiming that any mmo is turn based just doesn't like MMO combat in it's current form. I mean, you can't really blame them cause MMO combat sucks in general and you are being pretty naive if you think thats the reason people stick with MMOs.
The sad truth is that until we get combat similar to something we see in a single player game or more traditional action game like Call of Duty, Gears, or Ninja Gaiden; there will be people complaining about MMO combat. If you want a good combat system I suggest playing something that is not an MMO for that fix.
Most are. Atlantica Online, SAGA, Adventure Quest and a handful of others do turn-based.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Well I added all my posts to the original posts since apparently some people can't read the first 1 and 1/10th pages which containts clarification.
So far what I've gathered from this topic is no one is certain what the combat will be like. So I'll just wait for an actual gameplay video to figured out how the system works, similar to what I've done with GW2/SWTOR. Once a UI appears I'll have my answer.
wow and other mmo's like it, all auto attack mmos are turn base,
they are just using an active turn base where you can have a turn again like ff-x , duhh
wow for dam sure isn't real time action combat like tera or god of war... with real time blocking and dodging, not a stat that pops up saying you blocked..
plus wow type action there is no aiming at all, its all auto aim, which is just another dice roll whether you hit or not.. its glorified turn base dude
We have heard there is active blocking, ground targeted abilities and sprinting.
The devs always talk about how it will be like elder scrolls combat. Hopefully they look at the success of Chivalry and go in that direction.
Right, forgot to add Chivalry to my lists. Elder Scrolls needs to play like that but with abilities and such. I also liked Age of Conan combo system but can't see how that'd fit into ESO. All im hoping is we don't get a slew of homing attacks in the end, things that take no effort to land other than having the person targeted.