Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Hating the Haters

16791112

Comments

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    I think alot of these new found ES fans are just old DAoC fans who have been rubbing themselves raw waiting for #2

    This is gettting pretty comical now, you guys are the only "real" fans, I get it....

     So, is Mario Kart a Mario game, or is it a game with Mario in it? If you are a fan of Mario, do you defend Mario Kart for being Mario or for being a driving game? What if Nintendo tries to make Mario Kart for fans of Mario and try to pass it off as nothing more than a Mario game, do you still defend it as a Mario game like a blind fool or do you point out that it isnt Mario, its a driving game? Yeah...

    Donkey Kong has Mario in it, it is not a Mario game. TESO has TES in it, it is not a TES game, and NO, the mario/mario kart example DOES NOT APPLY because a side scroller and a driving game are two VERY DIFFERENT GENRES and thus CANNOT BE THE SAME. TES and TESO however are BOTH RPGs that CAN be near directly translated.

    Which is NOT being done. Everything that makes up the base game of TES is being thrown out for outdated bland boring dull ideas that never took off in the first place that did create the vast limitations modern MMOs are NOW STAGNATED WITH.

    To celebrate a loved IP being made with those limitations makes NO SENSE at all when if it was kept to what the IP actually was, it would make a REFRESHING NEW MMO INSTEAD!

    What does this have to do with what I said?

    TES is something that doesn't fit into just one game type. And to say the base game is being thrown out isn't exactly accurate for everyones approach to TES games. That's what makes them as popular as they are.

    Are they seemingly throwing out certain options that TES games offer? Yes. Everything TES has to offer? I can't say definitively without playing. However a big part of TES games consist of exploring and questing, which if DEvs are to be believed is soemthing they are focusing on for PVE.

    Another area is that classes seem to have many options available to them (Equipment governs areas of skill) one of my favorite aspects of TES games, and why i loved SWG so much. OF course I can't say how much this will mimic a TES experience, still these are the areas aside from lore which drew me into the franchise to begin with.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    This entire thread and arguement is pointless

     

    They will never agree to our point of view and we (I) will never agree to theirs.

     

    /end

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    Whats that got to do with being open?  All it does is get like minded people into the same channel of the mega server. 

    Everything else is open, Skyrim is a zone, Cyrodill is a Zone, Morrowind is a Zone, Elsweyr is a zone....all open, all feature go off exploration centric gameplay with no quest hubbing.

    These areas are not open, they are closed off by races.  You have to create 3 different characters to explore all of Tamriel.  That is not the type of exploring enjoyed in ES games.  There is no need to limit players in such a way.  If they didn't focus on the racial war then they could've left these areas open for everyone.

    And you have to buy 3 different games to explore half tamriel in the single player game.  Your points are no valid no matter how hard you want them to be! 

     

    ESO is still open, it features the exact same exploration centric gameplay that Skyrim does, that Morrowind does, and that Oblivian does.  Having a 3 player faction system does not take away from it being open because based on the areas we get to play in the MMO its already more open (by your definition) then the single player game.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    This entire thread and arguement is pointless

     

    They will never agree to our point of view and we (I) will never agree to theirs.

     

    /end

    Then leave these sub forums and quit arguing with people who are looking forward to the game.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    err you dont make sense Skyrim is a single player game, teso is a mmo, THEY ARE IN DIFFERENT GENRES.

    Not totally different genres; SP-RPG v. MMO-RPG.  Roleplaying game is a roleplaying game, adding a bunch of people hardly changes the genre classification drastically.  Many things from TES could've translated into a MMO.

    And many things have been

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    This entire thread and arguement is pointless

     

    They will never agree to our point of view and we (I) will never agree to theirs.

     

    /end

    then come back when you've actually bloody played the thing.  Or even seen a video of it in action.

  • k11keeperk11keeper Kalama, WAPosts: 1,056Member Common

    Fact is for me if I want to be a wood elf and my friend wants to be a race from a different faction and neither of us can change sides I'm gonna be mad. Don't care what anyone has to say about that but if that is going to be the case I will not be happy. Will I still try it? Probably, will I complain about it? Hell yes I will.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    This entire thread and arguement is pointless

     

    They will never agree to our point of view and we (I) will never agree to theirs.

     

    /end

    then come back when you've actually bloody played the thing.  Or even seen a video of it in action.

    LOL says the guys who cheerlead a game they havent played or seen either. Classic

     

    Just love these gollums who rage against anyone who dares to defile their precious and tell others what they should or should not say or where they should or shouldnt post

    ROFL

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by deakon

    Left click hit, hold left click power hit, right click block, hold right click and hit left to interupt, sound familiar?

    Being able to wear any armor or weapon regardless of class, sound familiar?

    Leveling skills/armor/weapons up the more you use them, sound familiar?

    Every class can use stealth, sound familiar?

    Every class can block, sound familiar?

    Stamina, health and magica as the 3 main stats, sound familiar?

    No cd on spells and attacks, sound familiar?

    Still doesn't change the fact that they faction locked races and areas to be like DAoC.  Am I supposed to be grateful that they might've gotten a few things right?  The above is all fine and good but TES is about freedom to choose your factions and explore the land.

    Many of these have been done in MMOs already, what good are these systems if they didn't represent the core of TES.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,899Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by deakon

    Left click hit, hold left click power hit, right click block, hold right click and hit left to interupt, sound familiar?

    Being able to wear any armor or weapon regardless of class, sound familiar?

    Leveling skills/armor/weapons up the more you use them, sound familiar?

    Every class can use stealth, sound familiar?

    Every class can block, sound familiar?

    Stamina, health and magica as the 3 main stats, sound familiar?

    No cd on spells and attacks, sound familiar?

    Still doesn't change the fact that they faction locked races and areas to be like DAoC.  Am I supposed to be grateful that they might've gotten a few things right?  The above is all fine and good but TES is about freedom to choose your factions and explore the land.

    Many of these have been done in MMOs already, what good are these systems if they didn't represent the core of TES.

    A question that can't be answered at present.

    IF these things bother you so much, you don't have to play.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • k11keeperk11keeper Kalama, WAPosts: 1,056Member Common
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by deakon

    Left click hit, hold left click power hit, right click block, hold right click and hit left to interupt, sound familiar?

    Being able to wear any armor or weapon regardless of class, sound familiar?

    Leveling skills/armor/weapons up the more you use them, sound familiar?

    Every class can use stealth, sound familiar?

    Every class can block, sound familiar?

    Stamina, health and magica as the 3 main stats, sound familiar?

    No cd on spells and attacks, sound familiar?

    Still doesn't change the fact that they faction locked races and areas to be like DAoC.  Am I supposed to be grateful that they might've gotten a few things right?  The above is all fine and good but TES is about freedom to choose your factions and explore the land.

    Many of these have been done in MMOs already, what good are these systems if they didn't represent the core of TES.

    I agreee. Those features might be why some play TES games (and they are great I love them) but that's not my #1 reason I play TES. I play so I can go and do whatever I want and don't feel hindered at all. Locking races in 3 factions and holding me inside one of those factions sounds hindereing and therefore I do not support the idea one bit.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    This entire thread and arguement is pointless

     

    They will never agree to our point of view and we (I) will never agree to theirs.

     

    /end

    then come back when you've actually bloody played the thing.  Or even seen a video of it in action.

    LOL says the guys who cheerlead a game they havent played or seen either. Classic

    Im not cheer leading, it may be great as its taking from 2 great games DAOC and Skyrim

    It may also be shite, im very wary of the "you are the hero" setup and phasing for storyline.  If they do too much of that we will end up at worst in swtor territory or at best in TSW territory where it will be fun the 1st time then be stale.

    but i cant tell yet as i've not seen it in action.  I know i hate SWTOR, because i played the horrible thing, ive never played teso.

    im also not keen on this megaserver concept as i would prefer to play on a Mordred type server where i can go where i want and kill who i like, but I would take a rvr setup over a pvp shunted into instanced mingames wow stylee setup anyday, as I have have found RVR games fun particularly daoc and planetside, although generally i prefer eve style pvp systems.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    yeah if they didnt have RVR, what would they do instead, my guess would be stale old crappy grind minigames for pvp tokens.  Which would make the game MORE of a wow clone.

    I'm not saying they couldn't have RvR, I'm just saying they should've wrote the setting as 3 different groups; lead by the Breton Merchant Lord, the Nord High King and the High Elf Queen - fighting instead of everyone uniting under a nice and neat 3 race, 3 faction system.  Make people join one of these factions in order to PvP.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eol-
    Originally posted by Yaevindusk

    ...The MMO genre has very much been "bastardized" in a matter of speaking; those who started in the 90s or early 00's typically loved MMOs for what they were...  

    Agreed. There is a huge gap in mindset between the people who played mmorpgs before WoW, versus those that started after. WoW signalled a massive shift in mmorpgs; games became much less hardcore when levelling and far more accessible to casual players. That was a good thing in many ways, but a bad thing in others. People talk about wanting the good ole pre-Wow days, but at the same time I think their memory is biased somewhat: they remember the good things more than the bad.

    MMORPG.com has a lot more of the old school players, so you are going to get a different perspective here than from the mmorpg player base as a whole. The problem is, making a game that appeals mainly to old school players probably wont be financially successful, especially for a game like Elder Scrolls which has a huge player base, most of whom are not hardcore PvPers. There is no way that ESO will put years of development and  tens of millions of dollars into a game with limited mainstream appeal. That may be what the old school players want, but its not a viable business model for a game with widespread appeal like Elder Scrolls.

    Plus, when you listen to the old school players talk about what made the games they liked great, they often dont agree. They have many different wants and perspectives. It wouldnt be possible to design a game for them because there is no one game that would satisfy most of them. They will complain about what the game companies do, not accepting the fact that investors arent going to fork over $100M to design a game to appeal to 100k people. A smaller indie company might spend less and target that nicke market, but not a game based on Elder Scrolls. I am sure they are aiming for 1M+, and you wont get there by designing a game for hardcore PvPers. First and foremost they need to satisfy a large chunk of the ES/Skyrim player base, and make sure that the game is appealing to a wide variety of players. They say max level can be reached in 120 hours and that is obviously aimed at casual and semi-casual players.

    By the way, I am an old school gamer, but have spent decades in the business world, I dont let my gaming desires blind me to the financial reality these companies are facing. Like it or not, WoW has revolutionized the industry and greatly upped the curve in terms of $ and polish required to publish a game, and massively changed the playerbase. Any game aimed at mainstream players would be foolish to ignore that.

    I started playing MMO's with Asheron's Call in November of 1999 when it released, was selected for the beta the same summer and I've been playing AC off and on now for 14+ years.  It still remains my favorite MMO of all time but that doesn't mean some of the systems it uses are outdated and would be better off if it offered some more common themepark elements like:

    • Auction Houses
    • Group Finder
    • Limited bag space inventory system instead of Encumberance system
    • removal of 20 min buffing sessions
    • plus other things
     

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    yeah if they didnt have RVR, what would they do instead, my guess would be stale old crappy grind minigames for pvp tokens.  Which would make the game MORE of a wow clone.

    I'm not saying they couldn't have RvR, I'm just saying they should've wrote the setting as 3 different groups; lead by the Breton Merchant Lord, the Nord High King and the High Elf Queen - fighting instead of everyone uniting under a nice and neat 3 race, 3 faction system.  Make people join one of these factions in order to PvP.

    yeah like the houses in morrowind.  I said a simmilar thing in another thread.  I guess the problem is modern players and following the path of least resistance they fear they will all pile on one faction.  But they could say have 3 imperial houses you join, but you make that descision at character creation.

    The more obvious soloution though is to copy daocs core/ffa/coop server setup.

    Core servers played likethey are saying.  Separate pve area for each faction, shared faction pvp area.

    FFA servers, almost entire world was PVP flagged and guilds could claim keeps in the rvr area, you could visit the entire world.  (think darkfall without player loot)

    Coop servers you could travel the entire world and make guilds and groups with members of the other factions.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    yeah if they didnt have RVR, what would they do instead, my guess would be stale old crappy grind minigames for pvp tokens.  Which would make the game MORE of a wow clone.

    I'm not saying they couldn't have RvR, I'm just saying they should've wrote the setting as 3 different groups; lead by the Breton Merchant Lord, the Nord High King and the High Elf Queen - fighting instead of everyone uniting under a nice and neat 3 race, 3 faction system.  Make people join one of these factions in order to PvP.

    And you wouldn't have the systems in place that promote community and faction pride.  Arguably the biggest reasons why GW2 WvW is the failure it is.  I want the feeling like I had in DAoC of fighting that Elf invader or Troll Invader as opposed to invader....when the nemey is different looking and comes from different lands its more immersive and offers greater pride for defending your realm.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    And you have to buy 3 different games to explore half tamriel in the single player game.  Your points are no valid no matter how hard you want them to be! 

    ESO is still open, it features the exact same exploration centric gameplay that Skyrim does, that Morrowind does, and that Oblivian does.  Having a 3 player faction system does not take away from it being open because based on the areas we get to play in the MMO its already more open (by your definition) then the single player game.

    Excuss me but who are you to confined?  I have valid points because they are my own, no matter how bad you want to dismiss them.

    ESO is closed off by faction.  What about the people who aren't playing the game for PvP, such as the explorers and PvE'rs, are their points invalid?  Are people who don't want to create and level a bunch of alts to see the world invalid?

    Who in their right mind would think to restrict a game known for open-adventures and exploration - why would they think it best to close off the areas and choice of faction for the sake of PvP?  They could've had a 3 faction war without faction locking races and areas.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    yeah if they didnt have RVR, what would they do instead, my guess would be stale old crappy grind minigames for pvp tokens.  Which would make the game MORE of a wow clone.

    I'm not saying they couldn't have RvR, I'm just saying they should've wrote the setting as 3 different groups; lead by the Breton Merchant Lord, the Nord High King and the High Elf Queen - fighting instead of everyone uniting under a nice and neat 3 race, 3 faction system.  Make people join one of these factions in order to PvP.

    yeah like the houses in morrowind.  I said a simmilar thing in another thread.  I guess the problem is modern players and following the path of least resistance they fear they will all pile on one faction.  But they could say have 3 imperial houses you join, but you make that descision at character creation.

    The more obvious soloution though is to copy daocs core/ffa/coop server setup.

    Core servers played likethey are saying.  Separate pve area for each faction, shared faction pvp area.

    FFA servers, almost entire world was PVP flagged and guilds could claim keeps in the rvr area, you could visit the entire world.  (think darkfall without player loot)

    Coop servers you could travel the entire world and make guilds and groups with members of the other factions.

    Yea this is what I would like to see too, co-op server and FFA server to appease those who want that.  Makes it hard to do on a mega server technology though.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Eol-
    Originally posted by Yaevindusk

    ...The MMO genre has very much been "bastardized" in a matter of speaking; those who started in the 90s or early 00's typically loved MMOs for what they were...  

    Agreed. There is a huge gap in mindset between the people who played mmorpgs before WoW, versus those that started after. WoW signalled a massive shift in mmorpgs; games became much less hardcore when levelling and far more accessible to casual players. That was a good thing in many ways, but a bad thing in others. People talk about wanting the good ole pre-Wow days, but at the same time I think their memory is biased somewhat: they remember the good things more than the bad.

    MMORPG.com has a lot more of the old school players, so you are going to get a different perspective here than from the mmorpg player base as a whole. The problem is, making a game that appeals mainly to old school players probably wont be financially successful, especially for a game like Elder Scrolls which has a huge player base, most of whom are not hardcore PvPers. There is no way that ESO will put years of development and  tens of millions of dollars into a game with limited mainstream appeal. That may be what the old school players want, but its not a viable business model for a game with widespread appeal like Elder Scrolls.

    Plus, when you listen to the old school players talk about what made the games they liked great, they often dont agree. They have many different wants and perspectives. It wouldnt be possible to design a game for them because there is no one game that would satisfy most of them. They will complain about what the game companies do, not accepting the fact that investors arent going to fork over $100M to design a game to appeal to 100k people. A smaller indie company might spend less and target that nicke market, but not a game based on Elder Scrolls. I am sure they are aiming for 1M+, and you wont get there by designing a game for hardcore PvPers. First and foremost they need to satisfy a large chunk of the ES/Skyrim player base, and make sure that the game is appealing to a wide variety of players. They say max level can be reached in 120 hours and that is obviously aimed at casual and semi-casual players.

    By the way, I am an old school gamer, but have spent decades in the business world, I dont let my gaming desires blind me to the financial reality these companies are facing. Like it or not, WoW has revolutionized the industry and greatly upped the curve in terms of $ and polish required to publish a game, and massively changed the playerbase. Any game aimed at mainstream players would be foolish to ignore that.

    I started playing MMO's with Asheron's Call in November of 1999 when it released, was selected for the beta the same summer and I've been playing AC off and on now for 14+ years.  It still remains my favorite MMO of all time but that doesn't mean some of the systems it uses are outdated and would be better off if it offered some more common themepark elements like:

    • Auction Houses
    • Group Finder
    • Limited bag space inventory system instead of Encumberance system
    • removal of 20 min buffing sessions
    • plus other things
     

    Ofcourse but AC, even though it is my favourite MMO of all times, is over a decade old. Turbine should have evolved it but instead went ThemePark with AC 2 and LotrO and there hasn't been a single triple A sandbox since and that is the main issue here. Devs with money and resources, not spending it on evolving the sandbox concept but rather throwing out ThemePark after ThemePark, hoping to get a piece of the 10 million sub pie of WoW.

    ESO would have been an excellent candidate for a triple A sandbox MMO because everything about Skyrim screams sandbox but noooo, here comes yet another ThemePark... getting fed up with this shit.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Distopia

    A question that can't be answered at present.

    IF these things bother you so much, you don't have to play.

    You're not going to see me standing in line for a copy.  I refuse to sign up for beta as well.

  • trash656trash656 Here, SKPosts: 357Member Uncommon

    OP,

    Some people will like the games you don't, some others will like the games you do. Just as in real life someone likes icescream and someone else doesn't. Gamers in general take their taste in gaming a little to seriously a lot of which are very immature for their age. Although saying that what I get tired of hearing is all the Gamers who argue and complain what they like and dont like. It's like watching a couple of 8 year olds fight over what kind of pizza is better.

    It's a pathetic and sad Generation I live in, with people that get more ignorant by the day, but it's a fact of life, and theres nothing anyone can do about it. My advice is if it bothers you that much. Simply don't read the negative posts, because then your just as bad as them, Don't be a media whore, and get sucked into all the community bs. As long as you like it thats all that matters.

     

    Cheers

    -Trash

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    And you have to buy 3 different games to explore half tamriel in the single player game.  Your points are no valid no matter how hard you want them to be! 

    ESO is still open, it features the exact same exploration centric gameplay that Skyrim does, that Morrowind does, and that Oblivian does.  Having a 3 player faction system does not take away from it being open because based on the areas we get to play in the MMO its already more open (by your definition) then the single player game.

    Excuss me but who are you to confined?  I have valid points because they are my own, no matter how bad you want to dismiss them.

    ESO is closed off by faction.  What about the people who aren't playing the game for PvP, such as the explorers and PvE'rs, are their points invalid?  Are people who don't want to create and level a bunch of alts to see the world invalid?

    Who in their right mind would think to restrict a game known for open-adventures and exploration - why would they think it best to close off the areas and choice of faction for the sake of PvP?  They could've had a 3 faction war without faction locking races and areas.

    Not saying they are invalid but I am saying their concerns are un warranted since we get more PvE space then any of the single player RPG's.  I cant explore Hammerfell while I am playing Skyrim and everyone is fine with that but ohhh all hell breaks out if you cant explore Hammerfell while in the MMO.  It makes no sense to me.

     

    Call me an optomist but if I was a PvE'er only and I chose to play ESO and say I pick Ebonheart Pact I now get access to Skyrim, Morrownd and Blackmarsh....way more exploration space compared to the single player game. 

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIPosts: 1,044Member
    I'm with you.  I see sandbox and I see pvp love fest and not an RPG game.  
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Eol-
    Originally posted by Yaevindusk

    ...The MMO genre has very much been "bastardized" in a matter of speaking; those who started in the 90s or early 00's typically loved MMOs for what they were...  

    Agreed. There is a huge gap in mindset between the people who played mmorpgs before WoW, versus those that started after. WoW signalled a massive shift in mmorpgs; games became much less hardcore when levelling and far more accessible to casual players. That was a good thing in many ways, but a bad thing in others. People talk about wanting the good ole pre-Wow days, but at the same time I think their memory is biased somewhat: they remember the good things more than the bad.

    MMORPG.com has a lot more of the old school players, so you are going to get a different perspective here than from the mmorpg player base as a whole. The problem is, making a game that appeals mainly to old school players probably wont be financially successful, especially for a game like Elder Scrolls which has a huge player base, most of whom are not hardcore PvPers. There is no way that ESO will put years of development and  tens of millions of dollars into a game with limited mainstream appeal. That may be what the old school players want, but its not a viable business model for a game with widespread appeal like Elder Scrolls.

    Plus, when you listen to the old school players talk about what made the games they liked great, they often dont agree. They have many different wants and perspectives. It wouldnt be possible to design a game for them because there is no one game that would satisfy most of them. They will complain about what the game companies do, not accepting the fact that investors arent going to fork over $100M to design a game to appeal to 100k people. A smaller indie company might spend less and target that nicke market, but not a game based on Elder Scrolls. I am sure they are aiming for 1M+, and you wont get there by designing a game for hardcore PvPers. First and foremost they need to satisfy a large chunk of the ES/Skyrim player base, and make sure that the game is appealing to a wide variety of players. They say max level can be reached in 120 hours and that is obviously aimed at casual and semi-casual players.

    By the way, I am an old school gamer, but have spent decades in the business world, I dont let my gaming desires blind me to the financial reality these companies are facing. Like it or not, WoW has revolutionized the industry and greatly upped the curve in terms of $ and polish required to publish a game, and massively changed the playerbase. Any game aimed at mainstream players would be foolish to ignore that.

    I started playing MMO's with Asheron's Call in November of 1999 when it released, was selected for the beta the same summer and I've been playing AC off and on now for 14+ years.  It still remains my favorite MMO of all time but that doesn't mean some of the systems it uses are outdated and would be better off if it offered some more common themepark elements like:

    • Auction Houses
    • Group Finder
    • Limited bag space inventory system instead of Encumberance system
    • removal of 20 min buffing sessions
    • plus other things
     

    Ofcourse but AC, even though it is my favourite MMO of all times, is over a decade old. Turbine should have evolved it but instead went ThemePark with AC 2 and LotrO and there hasn't been a single triple A sandbox since and that is the main issue here. Devs with money and resources, not spending it on evolving the sandbox concept but rather throwing out ThemePark after ThemePark, hoping to get a piece of the 10 million sub pie of WoW.

    ESO would have been an excellent candidate for a triple A sandbox MMO because everything about Skyrim screams sandbox but noooo, here comes yet another ThemePark... getting fed up with this shit.

    My point was I am a vet of MMO's and my favorite game of all time is one of those old school games and I was debunking the guy I quoted saying the games were bastaerdized which obvisouly they were not.

     

    Not to mention back then 100K subscribers was considered a massive succes whereas today it would be a collosal failure.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    yeah if they didnt have RVR, what would they do instead, my guess would be stale old crappy grind minigames for pvp tokens.  Which would make the game MORE of a wow clone.

    I'm not saying they couldn't have RvR, I'm just saying they should've wrote the setting as 3 different groups; lead by the Breton Merchant Lord, the Nord High King and the High Elf Queen - fighting instead of everyone uniting under a nice and neat 3 race, 3 faction system.  Make people join one of these factions in order to PvP.

    yeah like the houses in morrowind.  I said a simmilar thing in another thread.  I guess the problem is modern players and following the path of least resistance they fear they will all pile on one faction.  But they could say have 3 imperial houses you join, but you make that descision at character creation.

    The more obvious soloution though is to copy daocs core/ffa/coop server setup.

    Core servers played likethey are saying.  Separate pve area for each faction, shared faction pvp area.

    FFA servers, almost entire world was PVP flagged and guilds could claim keeps in the rvr area, you could visit the entire world.  (think darkfall without player loot)

    Coop servers you could travel the entire world and make guilds and groups with members of the other factions.

    Yea this is what I would like to see too, co-op server and FFA server to appease those who want that.  Makes it hard to do on a mega server technology though.

    I would also prefer them to ditch this mega server idea and have proper servers.  It will have all sorts of issues with cross realming.  Sure its a pain when you have queues at launch, and possibly mergers of servers later, but its a price worth paying for not having multiple instances of world zones and making the game more imersive imo.   Depends how its done to some degree, i found this sharding of world zones thing extremely annoying in aoc and swtor, but i played coh for over a year without even realising it did it too.

This discussion has been closed.