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Understand: We are only disappointed with the developers

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  • manusmanus SøgneMember Posts: 46

    Now I see your argument, it's a valid one

     

    But when a lone kid can do more impressive coding for a game than CRS have done in 12 years -You got to wonder...

  • swindlersswindlers fall river, MAMember Posts: 27
    Originally posted by david06
    Yeah, it's disappointing.
    So if China and RA haven't succeeded, then all those dev hours and all that time subscribers waited patiently was for nothing. Around late 2010 I remember subbing two accounts for one year, helping out with a facebook advertising fund, thinking that I was helping out a indie studio and now that the China wait was over they could get to improving the main product.
    It's still amazing to me that CRS has done a complete 180 and they've kept a straight face. Not too long ago Rapid Assault had to succeed if you wanted to keep playing WW2online, everything was "one big bucket" image Suddenly we have these assurances that no money from the WW2online subscriptions are being used on Rapid Assault. I guess one of their builders/investors/chumps finally told them that linking their subscriber's money to a crappy WW2 shooter wasn't a good idea.
    What takes the cake though is the fact that we were told "You don't know anything about running a business or coding a game, although you may think you do." by DOC many times over the years with his chorus chuckling in the forums, but now we're watching them with their failed Call of Duty 2 clone and them fumbling around with basic marketing and web design. It's total amateur hour.
    At this point I would be more inclined to support the game if the IP was just bought up by a random group of players who would then run the server(s). I think they would at least be more open to volunteer assistance, wouldn't waste everyone's money on side projects and wouldn't routinely deride their customers.

    Its amazing how each cash grab is promoted in the same manner.  And when their plans  fall through what does DOC do? Blames players and spews paragraph long "explanations" which are nothing more than condasending insults.

    What kind of complaints were you expecting when the players finally have a place to speak somewhat freely about the game? Sure as heck isn't allowed on the game forums.

    All that aside. 10 yrs rolled in and CRS made an "announcement". If you played RA around that time you'd understand how I feel they didn't have anything ready for the 10 yrs. It was like it snuck up on them, oh crap we have to do something. That was June 10,2011. Remember the giant front page announcement about it? Did it not give the impression that it had been in develeopment for yrs? Was it not put out there as the great game saver of WWIIONLINE, despite the feverish objections of the players? Then when its obviously crashing and burning it morphed into "we had to show we can still make stuff",DOC.

    Sounds like you duped your customers while  tossing something together so your investors wouldn't bail.

    There's many other examples of what was told, and what was actually done. And I don't need to explain, prove, that to anyone that wants to defend them. Its all out there in their statements.

  • HodoHodo Raeford, NCMember Posts: 542
    Originally posted by BodkinBarber
    I thought it would be neccessary to clarify that potentially apart from a few people that potentially have ulterior motives (either positive or negative) I would say that the majority of people who post negativity are not mindless haters as many of the CRS worshipers on here label them as. They are conveying their disapproval of decisions that CRS have made. <snip> CRS is like an alcoholic. You can be nice and keep giving them the alcohol, comfort them and tell them their ok as they slowly die OR you can step up, tell them to wise up, force them to stop their old ways and turn themselves around because they will only ever get better if they change their ways

    I actually read the whole post, and this has to be one of the best constructive posts I have seen on the MMORPG forums in a LONG LONG LONG time.    If any post deserves a +1 it is this one, well said.

     

    And with that said I have to agree with his post.   CRS made a lot of bad choices through the years, and then attempted to cover them up or just bulldoze their way through them.    The game is dieing not because of its lack of pretty and shiny, but because of the lack of direction in its development.   If you look at the history of the game, the game thrived not when it had the best and prettiest graphics on the market.   It was when the game had active development with well defined and communicated direction.   We knew that the 109F4 was coming out, and the Spitfire MkV, or the P40 Warhawk.   We knew they were fixing the lag issues, or the server crashes.   We knew that they were working on adding more depth to the TO&E system.  

     

    It was a "golden" age for WWIIOL, not what you have now, where most of the players dont know what CRS is doing, or if the game will be around come November 2013.    So why the deviation from what worked in the past to what we have now.   This is what lead to the sudden hatred out of so many long time supporters of the game.   This is ultimately what is hurting the game itself.   Its not its decade old game play, or the occassional bug.   But the sudden lack of communication or just flat out lies to get money.  

    So much crap, so little quality.

  • ginzoginzo Bell Gardens, CAMember Posts: 23

     

    Eve Online had a crappy launch and it had virtually no single player content in game and I would argue that Eve Online is more user un- friendly than WW2OL ever was/ is and that it has a steeper learning curve than WW2OL.    But CCP nurtured their player base and they were never top heavy with do nothing "producers" like CRS and so now they enjoy a subscriber base of ~400k and a staff of 70 or so people.    Like WW2OL, CCP was screwed by their publisher but they managed to turn their own disaster into a thriving success whereas CRS spent the past 10 years of living hand to mouth and along the way laying off important people like programmers and artists while retaining "producers" who spend their day jotting down ideas on a whiteboard.  

    CCP managed to get Eve on Steam while Motormouth admitted her  emails and phonecalls to Valve were ignored   In the big bucket post, gophur stated "we've even had some interest from a large games distribution site about publishing it (RA) upon completion" but it's obvious now that "interest" is the Steam Greenlight program.     Notice how they're using a player made promotional video from 2008 on the Greenlight page?   

     

     

    [quote]Originally posted by david06

    What takes the cake though is the fact that we were told "You don't know anything about running a business or coding a game, although you may think you do." by DOC many times over the years with his chorus chuckling in the forums, but now we're watching them with their failed Call of Duty 2 clone and them fumbling around with basic marketing and web design. It's total amateur hour.[/quote]

     

     

    Hah!  That always amused me when Doc would break out that line.   In order for a statement like that have any merrit, wouldn't you have to have a [b]successful[/b] business under your belt first?     By their own admission the game never made any money.  

  • SzyporynSzyporyn Member Posts: 122

    Yeah that always gets me laughing, he talks the talk alright :-)

    When I think of CRS and DOC in particular I always imagine a really stubborn fat kid going "but I am slim, you do not know if I am fat or not because you are not me"

    How they can still maintain a straight face when they spew out most of their crap is beyond me TBH.

    They are not a success, even with an idea that should have made them millionaires, and STILL they keep on with their "we are right, you are wrong" - they have been called out sooooo many times but alas....

  • depot12depot12 Reston, VAMember Posts: 156
    DOC posted that 2008 was the highest numbers.  Yet on the "One Big Bucket" graphic, it says subscribers were declining since 2005.  
  • david06david06 Chantilly, VAMember Posts: 183


    Originally posted by depot12
    DOC posted that 2008 was the highest numbers.  Yet on the "One Big Bucket" graphic, it says subscribers were declining since 2005.  

    The 2008 statement comes when someone says that we had more players when it was just simply town supply, without the complicated brigade system and the efforts to remove squads from the game.


    The "game has never been profitable" statements and the graphic came when they ran out of money for Rapid Assault and they were trying to get WW2online subscribers to pay additional money for Rapid Assault. People asked why don't they work on WW2online and their response was WW2online was never profitable.


    I know that a person can go to just about any game forum and you will have players claiming that the developers lied, but in this case it's quite true and the evidence is still out there.


    Funniest thing is that CRS said WW2online was a dead end and so they stopped working on it, but so far all of their other projects have been dead ends. I wouldn't care about DOC being an asshole and having extremely poor customer relations if he actually knew anything about running a business.

  • AbyssussAbyssuss Banja LukaMember Posts: 85

    Why has CRS removed the 300 subs by 15th feb. graph from the front page?Xoom?Doc?

    It was standing at 94.....

  • david06david06 Chantilly, VAMember Posts: 183


    Originally posted by Abyssuss
    Why has CRS removed the 300 subs by 15th feb. graph from the front page?Xoom?Doc?It was standing at 94.....

    The stagnant number was probably a contributing factor, but I think that someone from the community finally messaged Xoom about it's appearance on the web page.


    I mean seriously, that thermometer-looking thing was ugly; they didn't even bother to remove the white background so you had this huge white box staring at you whenever you went to the main site.

  • AbyssussAbyssuss Banja LukaMember Posts: 85
    Originally posted by david06
      Originally posted by Abyssuss
    Why has CRS removed the 300 subs by 15th feb. graph from the front page?Xoom?Doc?
      It was standing at 94.....

     

    The stagnant number was probably a contributing factor, but I think that someone from the community finally messaged Xoom about it's appearance on the web page.


    I mean seriously, that thermometer-looking thing was ugly; they didn't even bother to remove the white background so you had this huge white box staring at you whenever you went to the main site.

    I just hope they keep us informed about it and not just disappear off the radar, I'm interested if they will hit the big 300 by feb 15th

  • swindlersswindlers fall river, MAMember Posts: 27
    Originally posted by Abyssuss
    Originally posted by david06
      Originally posted by Abyssuss
    Why has CRS removed the 300 subs by 15th feb. graph from the front page?Xoom?Doc?
      It was standing at 94.....

     

    The stagnant number was probably a contributing factor, but I think that someone from the community finally messaged Xoom about it's appearance on the web page.


    I mean seriously, that thermometer-looking thing was ugly; they didn't even bother to remove the white background so you had this huge white box staring at you whenever you went to the main site.

    I just hope they keep us informed about it and not just disappear off the radar, I'm interested if they will hit the big 300 by feb 15th

    If by keeping you informed you mean a message from xoom stating how successful it was, probably.

     

    This is where the problem is. They've blown smoke up peoples butts far too many times for many to even trust them anymore. Both DOC and XOOM.

     

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it happened that way. Or the intent of that drive will be completely revamped, and touted off as a sucess. Zero trust in this companies business practices.............................................zero.

  • CeTheGreatCeTheGreat bradenton, FLMember Posts: 84
    Originally posted by Abyssuss
    Why has CRS removed the 300 subs by 15th feb. graph from the front page?Xoom?Doc? It was standing at 94.....

    Updating

     

    Its not an auto upload.

    image

  • AbyssussAbyssuss Banja LukaMember Posts: 85
    Originally posted by CeTheGreat
    Originally posted by Abyssuss
    Why has CRS removed the 300 subs by 15th feb. graph from the front page?Xoom?Doc? It was standing at 94.....

    Updating

     

    Its not an auto upload.

    I know it's not, but the graph isn't even on the front page anymore and not talked much about on the forums, all I want is transparency from CRS, whether the mission fails or not. come on guys

  • pittpetepittpete poughkeepsie, NYMember Posts: 233

    It was mentioned in the Barracks yesterday.

    Xoom updated it and said 96 Heroes as of 1/31/13

    These numbers aren't counting people who switched to a Hero account that are still on a plan.

    Once they take effect, it will reflect the new Heros.

     

    image

  • AbyssussAbyssuss Banja LukaMember Posts: 85
    Thanks Pete :)
  • CeTheGreatCeTheGreat bradenton, FLMember Posts: 84
    I just don't get what the problem is I guess. If we all enjoy wwiiol than why is it such a big deal to drop $30 a month? If it saves/improves the game, what's the problem here? I'm sure we all waste $30 on pointless crap anyway. I know I do. If me not eating chillies for lunch one day a week helps wwiiol, I'm down with that.

    image

  • hooberhoober SMember Posts: 25
    Originally posted by CeTheGreat
    I just don't get what the problem is I guess. If we all enjoy wwiiol than why is it such a big deal to drop $30 a month? If it saves/improves the game, what's the problem here? I'm sure we all waste $30 on pointless crap anyway. I know I do. If me not eating chillies for lunch one day a week helps wwiiol, I'm down with that.

    One problem is that unsubbing is the only way to tell CRS that you are not a happy customer.

  • Silky303Silky303 PortsmouthMember Posts: 134
    Originally posted by hoober
    Originally posted by CeTheGreat
    I just don't get what the problem is I guess. If we all enjoy wwiiol than why is it such a big deal to drop $30 a month? If it saves/improves the game, what's the problem here? I'm sure we all waste $30 on pointless crap anyway. I know I do. If me not eating chillies for lunch one day a week helps wwiiol, I'm down with that.

    One problem is that unsubbing is the only way to tell CRS that you are not a happy customer.

    I'm not sure it is. Or at least I think there are ways groups of players/squads could demonstrate their unhappiness whilst retaining their willingness to engage in positive discussion.

    Collective discussions might have been a better approach than ragequitting and heading off to a neutral forum to cry like angst-ridden teenagers

    SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  • boobitsboobits Cumberland, BCMember Posts: 27
    Originally posted by Silky303
    Originally posted by hoober
    Originally posted by CeTheGreat
    I just don't get what the problem is I guess. If we all enjoy wwiiol than why is it such a big deal to drop $30 a month? If it saves/improves the game, what's the problem here? I'm sure we all waste $30 on pointless crap anyway. I know I do. If me not eating chillies for lunch one day a week helps wwiiol, I'm down with that.

    One problem is that unsubbing is the only way to tell CRS that you are not a happy customer.

    I'm not sure it is. Or at least I think there are ways groups of players/squads could demonstrate their unhappiness whilst retaining their willingness to engage in positive discussion.

    Collective discussions might have been a better approach than ragequitting and heading off to a neutral forum to cry like angst-ridden teenagers

    The players have been trying for YEARS to get CRS to listen.  I for one will be breaking open a bottle a scotch and toasting the day when CRS goes under, and that day seems to be fast approaching.

     

    Too little too late CRS. You failed your players big time.

     

    Edit:

    "Loved" the game, DESPISED certain CRS staff.

  • BodkinBarberBodkinBarber BirminghamMember Posts: 106
    Originally posted by CeTheGreat
    I just don't get what the problem is I guess. If we all enjoy wwiiol than why is it such a big deal to drop $30 a month? If it saves/improves the game, what's the problem here? I'm sure we all waste $30 on pointless crap anyway. I know I do. If me not eating chillies for lunch one day a week helps wwiiol, I'm down with that.

    I whole heartily agree. If you are not perpared to pay $360 a year for this game then you must be pretty selfish. $360 is pocket change to everyone anyway

  • OtotheJOtotheJ here, NYMember Posts: 52
    Originally posted by Silky303
    [mod edit]

    Wanna know what I think of a grown man that moderates a dying games forum like the kestapo? Out of respect for this wonderful venue and mmopg.com I will refrain from giving an answer. 

    Be happy with the game you have. It will live on with less and less players, no further content and even the same bad ideas to put a sparkle in the eye of the last fanboi.   However, here in the outside world, people that dont quite like the flavor of the kool aid will be waiting to take your ball away when you come skipping out of your "happy place"  :)

     

  • TontomanTontoman Toronto, ONMember Posts: 196
    Originally posted by CeTheGreat
    I just don't get what the problem is I guess. If we all enjoy wwiiol than why is it such a big deal to drop $30 a month? If it saves/improves the game, what's the problem here? I'm sure we all waste $30 on pointless crap anyway. I know I do. If me not eating chillies for lunch one day a week helps wwiiol, I'm down with that.

    Well one, it's an extra $30 you waste per month heh.  But for me at least the $12 (at the time) was more of a reason I wasn't a casual player anymore.  It wasn't the money that made me stop, but with AO's and the lower pops I was constantly logging in and not finding the combat I wanted.  With two AO's up, chances were one was in the middle of a three hour camp/supply grind and the other had like 10 players. So I got tired of logging in to find nothing good, then with logging in less I got thinking what am I paying $12 for. 

    The killer then is, if you want to log in for another try, or just to see what's going on, it's the whole resubbing thing.  The F2P came way to late to stop more people doing a full uninstall which makes it even that much harder to bring them back.  An earlier F2P model would have kept the pop up with way more casual players keeping WWIIOL installed for the occasional visit.

    The other issue, hard to say it will improve the game when time after time CRS kept adding stuff that didn't improve the game.  Adding the God view (mini map with radar) into a 'sim' as they liked to call it.  Improvements is a subjective opinion.

  • RigamortisRigamortis Nextdoor, CAMember Posts: 206 Uncommon
    Originally posted by CeTheGreat
    I just don't get what the problem is I guess. If we all enjoy wwiiol than why is it such a big deal to drop $30 a month? If it saves/improves the game, what's the problem here? I'm sure we all waste $30 on pointless crap anyway. I know I do. If me not eating chillies for lunch one day a week helps wwiiol, I'm down with that.

     I don't get this change of heart in you CE.  When you were banned with your CE account,  hell had no fury then you being scorn.  You had a major meltdown along with the majority of your squad.  The flaming / bad mouthing that ensued after that is off the chart  in comparison to what mildly goes on here.  The "hollier than thou" attitude you display in these forums are hypocritcal at best.  I personally believe the change of heart you have toward CRS is the unbanning of your CE persona.  Mind you I did not agree when you were banned then and do not now....

    -Rig

  • Silky303Silky303 PortsmouthMember Posts: 134
    Originally posted by OtotheJ
    Originally posted by Silky303
    [mod edit]

    Wanna know what I think of a grown man that moderates a dying games forum like the kestapo? Out of respect for this wonderful venue and mmopg.com I will refrain from giving an answer. 

    Be happy with the game you have. It will live on with less and less players, no further content and even the same bad ideas to put a sparkle in the eye of the last fanboi.   However, here in the outside world, people that dont quite like the flavor of the kool aid will be waiting to take your ball away when you come skipping out of your "happy place"  :)

     

    Dear Lord, cry more why don't you. I don't think this forum has seen quite enough of the 'Waaaah they took my fun away, I used to be a Mega Ultra Pwnzor until they spoiled my fun' attitude that makes you a laughing stock elsewhere

    Like I said, grown men shouldn't be acting like this. It's pathetic.

    The game changed, decisions were made you didn't like. That's life.

    SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  • david06david06 Chantilly, VAMember Posts: 183


    Originally posted by TontomanIt wasn't the money that made me stop, but with AO's and the lower pops I was constantly logging in and not finding the combat I wanted. With two AO's up, chances were one was in the middle of a three hour camp/supply grind and the other had like 10 players. So I got tired of logging in to find nothing good, then with logging in less I got thinking what am I paying $12 for.

    Yeah after I started to understand the game I spent most of my time in a truck, armored car, or as infantry so I'd definitely be fine with paying $9.99/month and just missing out on a few pieces of top equipment. The problem was that I'd log on, see nothing going on, 1-3 HC struggling to put something together(not their fault, game mechanics suck) and after playing a bit I'd log off.


    You cannot just say "I will drive/walk a spawn point to town and get a battle started." Unless the defenders don't spawn in it takes several dedicated players constantly setting FRUs to town just to keep a battle going and some kind of entertainment on the server; to actually take a town you need to wait for someone's high command to screw-up, drain several brigades of equipment or get very lucky.


    So process of starting a battle is extremely difficult. I really don't want this to be a side vs side thing but in their efforts to build up the allied team, CRS tailored the game to favor armor rushes and big camps by armor. To keep the allied "US prime" players happy CRS has made it hard to get any action going in the other lower-populated time zones. To keep the allied side from getting rolled by KGW/ASA squad operations they have a ridiculous amount of spawn delay and refuse to change the brigade-warping system.


    With some good leaders and a change in tactics we kept competitive in TZ3(FRUs, forward bases, set warpables to town instead of going for the spawns), but as anyone can see from the Antwerp fiasco CRS simply isn't going to allow others to piss off the US prime section of the player base. You can debate whether or not this is a good business decision(losing less subscriptions versus a lot of allied US PT player subscriptions) but it's the current policy.


    So if you play in another time zone, don't tank or don't have lots of tanks to play with, or you just play once or twice a week when everyone does big scheduled operations then the game sucks for you.

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