Originally posted by LadyEuphei How do you think we can fix the gaming community?
We cannot. There will always be a toxic element in gaming from it's very nature and anonymity. You are talking about mind control and I am NOT up for that. Freedom means, among many other things, free to piss people off, too.
mind control, huh? Not a terrible idea LOL! you can always save yourself with a tin foil hat!
***choreographed dance----> lol I don't know why I thought of that***
People are not evil, mean, cruel by nature. Atleast I do not believe they are. Something is making these generally good people act evil. Most people I know that act like a** hats sometimes, end up not being bad at all out of games. Some of them are the nicest people I know.
Something is pushing people in the wrong direction, telling them to be mean. That is the mind control. I want people to be them selves! Be timid, happy, nice, kind, whatever you are. Right not a large amount of people fall into the category of a** hat and I do not think the general population is all a**hats.
So no, it is not mind control, it is mind freedom! I want people to be themselves instead of being these cruel people they turn into only on the internet.
Did it ever occur to you, that, that is who they actually are?
They're just conforming to the rules society set for them, when those rules don't exist (the internet) that's when they really come out of their shells.
You're also entirely contradictory, because here you are making a thread that attempts to segregate people for acting in a certain way (rude, angry, verbose, cruel) and then promoting them to act however they are.
It's up to the game developers, game support staff etc. to moderate online communities. Much like it is the responsibility of MMORPG.com staff to moderate this site.
I honestly can't see how you're any better than the people you're chastising in this thread.
The community problem is a people problem, and there's no way to fix it without being able to alter the minds and attitudes of everyone involved, and by doing so would strip us of our humanity or what makes us unique. Like so many other posters have mentioned, I don't believe there to be a solution. The only thing an individual can do is to represent themselves as appropriately and respectfully as possible, and hope to lead by example. Generally, this isn't going to effect the audience at large, but rather the people you surround yourself. It's also an extremely difficult task, but requires some understanding of human emotion and why we react how we do. Suffice to say, anger and offense are internal responses that can be controlled, though for some people, myself included, it can take a great deal of practice.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Originally posted by LadyEuphei How do you think we can fix the gaming community?
We cannot. There will always be a toxic element in gaming from it's very nature and anonymity. You are talking about mind control and I am NOT up for that. Freedom means, among many other things, free to piss people off, too.
mind control, huh? Not a terrible idea LOL! you can always save yourself with a tin foil hat!
***choreographed dance----> lol I don't know why I thought of that***
People are not evil, mean, cruel by nature. Atleast I do not believe they are. Something is making these generally good people act evil. Most people I know that act like a** hats sometimes, end up not being bad at all out of games. Some of them are the nicest people I know.
Something is pushing people in the wrong direction, telling them to be mean. That is the mind control. I want people to be them selves! Be timid, happy, nice, kind, whatever you are. Right not a large amount of people fall into the category of a** hat and I do not think the general population is all a**hats.
So no, it is not mind control, it is mind freedom! I want people to be themselves instead of being these cruel people they turn into only on the internet.
Did it ever occur to you, that, that is who they actually are?
They're just conforming to the rules society set for them, when those rules don't exist (the internet) that's when they really come out of their shells.
You're also entirely contradictory, because here you are making a thread that attempts to segregate people for acting in a certain way (rude, angry, verbose, cruel) and then promoting them to act however they are.
It's up to the game developers, game support staff etc. to moderate online communities. Much like it is the responsibility of MMORPG.com staff to moderate this site.
I honestly can't see how you're any better than the people you're chastising in this thread.
The sad part about this, is your outlook on the situation. The only reason you see my posts as contradictory is because you see the world as evil. I like to think that it is a good place full of good people. If you see it the way I do, then being yourself and not being rude are the same thing. I understand it is hard to change your view for just a second and to live in other peoples shoes, but try it some time, look at the world and think of it as a good place and you may find you do not want to go back to the other way of thinking.
BTW I also never mentioned segregation at any time. I am trying to see if we can come up with a good way of fixing a broken community. Making it more enjoyable for all!
Valient effort, but I'm afraid this thread won't solve any problems.
You may overcome 1000 different hurdles, but as long as there are teenagers talking to adults as if they are teenagers as well, there will be conflicts.
If you think you can stop teenagers from inappropriate language, flaming and baiting......you should get a masters in child psychology; don't limit yourself to the mmo world.
Originally posted by LadyEuphei How do you think we can fix the gaming community?
We cannot. There will always be a toxic element in gaming from it's very nature and anonymity. You are talking about mind control and I am NOT up for that. Freedom means, among many other things, free to piss people off, too.
mind control, huh? Not a terrible idea LOL! you can always save yourself with a tin foil hat!***choreographed dance----> lol I don't know why I thought of that***People are not evil, mean, cruel by nature. Atleast I do not believe they are. Something is making these generally good people act evil. Most people I know that act like a** hats sometimes, end up not being bad at all out of games. Some of them are the nicest people I know. Something is pushing people in the wrong direction, telling them to be mean. That is the mind control. I want people to be them selves! Be timid, happy, nice, kind, whatever you are. Right not a large amount of people fall into the category of a** hat and I do not think the general population is all a**hats. So no, it is not mind control, it is mind freedom! I want people to be themselves instead of being these cruel people they turn into only on the internet.
I will respectfully disagree with your premise that "People are not evil." I can name many people throughout history that are truly evil.
I also disagree with the premise that thinking to please another is "mind freedom." Your statement: "I want people to be themselves instead of being these cruel people they turn into only on the internet." Illustrates that you truly DON'T want people to be themselves. You want them to acceptable to you. Do you believe nobody who is a dick on the internet does not want to be a dick on the internet? If you do, then we have come to an impasse.
I believe that people are responsible for their own actions and decisions. Everyone has choices. Some choose wisely and others do not. Blaming some outside influence falls flat when not everyone in that situation decides the same.
Now, would I enjoy a much less toxic gaming community? Of course I would. But in no way will I be party to forcing people to behave in a way acceptable to *me*. I am not in a position to dictate to others how to behave. And nobody else is, either, with the possible exception of game publishers within the boundaries their own games.
**gets tinfoil hat ready**
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I think some games get more bad people than others, never liked the community of WoW, a lot of nasty topics in city/barrens chat, clueless and Impatient ppl, in the end the dungeon finder tool pretty much killed the social aspect of the game, ppl just joining guilds to get there bonuses
Agreed. The poison is no doubt game related and it's getting particularely nasty when too much zealotic fanbois clash with zealotic haters. I was following some threads in Mortal Online lately and was reliefed when reading in threads related to Vanguard. Sadly I have no solution to this. The "report button" here surely ain't doing it cause some of the mods are taking a report way too easy and ban the wrong people due to not investigating the case thoroughly enough.
Edit: Sorry for not reading the whole thread and being a bit out of the flow here.
Originally posted by LadyEuphei How do you think we can fix the gaming community?
We cannot. There will always be a toxic element in gaming from it's very nature and anonymity. You are talking about mind control and I am NOT up for that. Freedom means, among many other things, free to piss people off, too.
mind control, huh? Not a terrible idea LOL! you can always save yourself with a tin foil hat!
***choreographed dance----> lol I don't know why I thought of that***
People are not evil, mean, cruel by nature. Atleast I do not believe they are. Something is making these generally good people act evil. Most people I know that act like a** hats sometimes, end up not being bad at all out of games. Some of them are the nicest people I know.
Something is pushing people in the wrong direction, telling them to be mean. That is the mind control. I want people to be them selves! Be timid, happy, nice, kind, whatever you are. Right not a large amount of people fall into the category of a** hat and I do not think the general population is all a**hats.
So no, it is not mind control, it is mind freedom! I want people to be themselves instead of being these cruel people they turn into only on the internet.
I will respectfully disagree with your premise that "People are not evil." I can name many people throughout history that are truly evil.
I also disagree with the premise that thinking to please another is "mind freedom." Your statement: "I want people to be themselves instead of being these cruel people they turn into only on the internet." Illustrates that you truly DON'T want people to be themselves. You want them to acceptable to you. Do you believe nobody who is a dick on the internet does not want to be a dick on the internet? If you do, then we have come to an impasse.
I believe that people are responsible for their own actions and decisions. Everyone has choices. Some choose wisely and others do not. Blaming some outside influence falls flat when not everyone in that situation decides the same.
Now, would I enjoy a much less toxic gaming community? Of course I would. But in no way will I be party to forcing people to behave in a way acceptable to *me*. I am not in a position to dictate to others how to behave. And nobody else is, either, with the possible exception of game publishers within the boundaries their own games.
**gets tinfoil hat ready**
Again, this is just a differing whole view of society. You think they are evil, I do not. Saying you know a few truely evil people is like saying you know a fat gamer so we are all fat.
Now you did stumble on a good point. If we could make people feel like their actions stick. That action will have reprecussions and that karma is in effect on the internet, maybe people would think twice about being rude. With no feed back system in place, it is a waste of time for people to care about what they do.
Maybe some system to make people think about their actions?
Games that required player interaction and group play to progress effectively enforce a positive community as undesirables find themselves unable to get anywhere in the game. FFXI was one such game. The early days of EQ2 were the same. When a game fundamentally requires players to get along in order to get anything done either everyone behaves in the interests of progress or all the trolls simply leave because they can't have their 'fun'.
IMO the main reason the MMO community has become such a mess as of late is due to the fact that no one really needs the other players in the game. Systems like the dungeon finder seen in a few games facilitate the perception of other players as simply tools to get something done, and discarded afterwards.
The way to cure the community is to give players a reason to need others. The first step would be to eliminate the solo-only mentality and make group play ultimately more rewarding and desirable (and no systems to find groups automatically). As long as everyone can just solo to do everything they have no need for positive relations with other players and thus don't care who they annoy/upset/troll/harass/etc.
I know the soloers are going to hate me but it's the truth. Group-centric MMOs generally have much more positive communities.
Call me cynical, but frankly that sounds more like it would perpetuate a "I'll be nice to this guy only because he gives benefits. I still don't give a shit about him because he is my ticket to loot" mentality.
That's exactly what it does. There's no evidence that group centric MMOs have a more positive community. If anything, the MMOs that do not have forced grouping but offer ways for players to collaborate have far more established communities because people are interacting with others because they choose to, not because they have to.
ATITD, UO, Free Realms, Puzzle Pirates and EVE Online have far more socialization and interaction outside of the guild unit than most forced-grouping MMOs. The most notable exception is FFXI, and the key to that game's success lies in the linkshell being more than just a group but being in a specific group that one seeks to join and be an active part of. It excels in its social aspects because it emphasizes not the loot you need to use others to get but the group unit itself.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Games that required player interaction and group play to progress effectively enforce a positive community as undesirables find themselves unable to get anywhere in the game. FFXI was one such game. The early days of EQ2 were the same. When a game fundamentally requires players to get along in order to get anything done either everyone behaves in the interests of progress or all the trolls simply leave because they can't have their 'fun'.
IMO the main reason the MMO community has become such a mess as of late is due to the fact that no one really needs the other players in the game. Systems like the dungeon finder seen in a few games facilitate the perception of other players as simply tools to get something done, and discarded afterwards.
The way to cure the community is to give players a reason to need others. The first step would be to eliminate the solo-only mentality and make group play ultimately more rewarding and desirable (and no systems to find groups automatically). As long as everyone can just solo to do everything they have no need for positive relations with other players and thus don't care who they annoy/upset/troll/harass/etc.
I know the soloers are going to hate me but it's the truth. Group-centric MMOs generally have much more positive communities.
Call me cynical, but frankly that sounds more like it would perpetuate a "I'll be nice to this guy only because he gives benefits. I still don't give a shit about him because he is my ticket to loot" mentality.
That's exactly what it does. There's no evidence that group centric MMOs have a more positive community. If anything, the MMOs that do not have forced grouping but offer ways for players to collaborate have far more established communities because people are interacting with others because they choose to, not because they have to.
Have you guys ever heard about the just laugh thing? If you are sad or whatever just force yourself to laugh or smile. You end up feeling better and wanting to smile. You could say the same thing might happen hear.
It is possible that making a player be nice so they may get their "EPIX L00TZ" may also inturn make them happy and nice because they were doing it. Just a thought.
The internet is as much one big community as the whole planet is. There is a reason society exist of 100s of subcultures/communities. Go find a subcommunity that shares you views, you feel good by and that shuns those you feel are toxic.
You really do not have to play and go along with the whole of internet or the whole MMO community.
The sad part about this, is your outlook on the situation. The only reason you see my posts as contradictory is because you see the world as evil. I like to think that it is a good place full of good people. If you see it the way I do, then being yourself and not being rude are the same thing. I understand it is hard to change your view for just a second and to live in other peoples shoes, but try it some time, look at the world and think of it as a good place and you may find you do not want to go back to the other way of thinking.
BTW I also never mentioned segregation at any time. I am trying to see if we can come up with a good way of fixing a broken community. Making it more enjoyable for all!
No, I see your post as contradictory from a logical standpoint. I don't see the world as evil, there is good and bad everywhere.
The world isn't a good place full of good people, you might note that one of the favorite arguments against God's is the overwhelming presence of evil throughout the world. You're clearly living in a microcosm, and you think that, that isolated society of good will is a wider reflection of the world.
I can fully accept your view, you think that the world is full of good people. I think that's wrong, history, nature and every accurate book ever written would contest your opinion. I appreciate that some people are naive, and I don't judge you for that, that's me being open minded.
Why would I look at the world and think of it as a good place? It's not a good place, for me to accept that it was would be a lie. Problems have to be acknowledged to fix them -- The world could be a good place. Not with your way of thinking, of course.
I can never think like you do, barring a lobotomy. (That's not to say that you lack intelligence, just that I would need to lose a massive amount of knowledge.)
You don't need to say the word, by saying that one group of people need 'fixing' you're already in the wrong. The gaming community isn't broken, the worldwide community is.
If you want to make a difference, stop posting on this god awful forum.
Have you guys ever heard about the just laugh thing? If you are sad or whatever just force yourself to laugh or smile. You end up feeling better and wanting to smile. You could say the same thing might happen hear.
It is possible that making a player be nice so they may get their "EPIX L00TZ" may also inturn make them happy and nice because they were doing it. Just a thought.
Again, this is just a differing whole view of society. You think they are evil, I do not. Saying you know a few truely evil people is like saying you know a fat gamer so we are all fat.
Now you did stumble on a good point. If we could make people feel like their actions stick. That action will have reprecussions and that karma is in effect on the internet, maybe people would think twice about being rude. With no feed back system in place, it is a waste of time for people to care about what they do.
Maybe some system to make people think about their actions?
All we need is for people to take a deep breath, take the time to understand other people's opinions, hold back from writing negative non constructive remarks, realize that it is okay for people to have a different view than you and that it is fine to discuss those different views and that they don't need to become bashing arguments. The one great thing about the internet is you always have the chance to take back something you say, read your post over. If you want to write something hateful or negative, type it out, get it out of your system, then delete it
Same goes with real life, same rules apply, just be a bit kinder to each other..if you have a problem with someone, instead of retaliating in public forums, send them a pm and talk to them in private...who knows maybe you two can work it out and make friends out of it.
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
The sad part about this, is your outlook on the situation. The only reason you see my posts as contradictory is because you see the world as evil. I like to think that it is a good place full of good people. If you see it the way I do, then being yourself and not being rude are the same thing. I understand it is hard to change your view for just a second and to live in other peoples shoes, but try it some time, look at the world and think of it as a good place and you may find you do not want to go back to the other way of thinking.
BTW I also never mentioned segregation at any time. I am trying to see if we can come up with a good way of fixing a broken community. Making it more enjoyable for all!
No, I see your post as contradictory from a logical standpoint. I don't see the world as evil, there is good and bad everywhere.
The world isn't a good place full of good people, you might note that one of the favorite arguments against God's is the overwhelming presence of evil throughout the world. You're clearly living in a microcosm, and you think that, that isolated society of good will is a wider reflection of the world.
I can fully accept your view, you think that the world is full of good people. I think that's wrong, history, nature and every accurate book ever written would contest your opinion. I appreciate that some people are naive, and I don't judge you for that, that's me being open minded.
Why would I look at the world and think of it as a good place? It's not a good place, for me to accept that it was would be a lie. Problems have to be acknowledged to fix them -- The world could be a good place. Not with your way of thinking, of course.
I can never think like you do, barring a lobotomy. (That's not to say that you lack intelligence, just that I would need to lose a massive amount of knowledge.)
You don't need to say the word, by saying that one group of people need 'fixing' you're already in the wrong. The gaming community isn't broken, the worldwide community is.
If you want to make a difference, stop posting on this god awful forum.
Woooooo, you need a hug friend Just so you know, I know their is evil, and all the stuff you are talking about. I have lived alot of places, and seen some stuff I wish I could un-see. I choose to see the world as good because I hope it is mostly good.
I understand that alot of people are like you, that they see the negative and live in it and can't see the positive. People think that it is intelligent to be negative, that they have a better view of everything. I say it is the oppostie. People the live in the negative have a negative life and people that live in the positive have a positive life. People with knowledge should understand that life is what you make of it, so why make it all negative? You are only hurting yourself!
If you can not tell already, I read the secret a while ago and I really thought it was an amazing concept. Basically, for anyone that has not read it I can sum it up as: you are what you think. Think happy you'll be happy and happy things will happen to you.
I think we can make a difference, I like to think the world is good and nice, and I am a very optimistic person. We are not here to discuss me though, but to come up with an idea to help the community as a whole be happier, nicer people!
Provide more ways for the playerbase to segregate into smaller, like-minded communities. I know the whole politically correct thing is a utopian lovefest of tolerance and respect, but if we sit that treehugging crap aside and look at things realistically, the more a playerbase is allowed to divide itself into smaller groups of people with related wants/interests the less prevalant trolling, antagonism and conflict is.
League of Legends is a perfect example. There are few separate channels. Everyone of every background, playstyle, age, skill level, etc is all mashed into the same chat channels. Aside from the toxic influence of anonimity you also have a diverse array of all levels of tactless socially stunted morons who can't be educated on how to act in mixed company because for the past twenty years, everyone told them they special snowflakes... oh, and they have 'freedom of speach." And if you want to make LoL look peachy keen, check out SMITE, where there's even less separation and in the level 1-6 range, it's hard to find a match where someone isn't spewing personal attacks because some new player didn't telepathically know to do what that dude was thinking is the optimal strategy.
Sex, politics and religion are three things you don't bring up in mixed company. The standard internet responses are:
I shouldn't have to hide who I am or how I feel about things.
If they can't handle it they can put me on ignore.
The tactless jackasses that feel those are acceptable answers are the problem, not the guy that simply reacted to the controversial, and probably not even game related, garbage that got brought up.
However, if a game offers places that groups can readily access as meeting places, custom chat channels, channels for different languages, etc then a lot of the problems are solved.
See, if the LGBT crowd is having a conversation about same sex marriage in local, they're going to get responses from those that might have a problem with it or those that might jsut want to troll the crap out of them. If they had a channel or physical location in game where they can meet and talk, much more civil discourse occurs. The same with religion, politics parenting, current events, war/military, etc.
When it's one local/global pile-on, it's harder to enforce civility. However, if you have a [special interest] channel and or location, it's easier to punt offenders and enforce some level of civility because the antagonist has to make a point to join or travel to that channel or location.
For the past ten years, MMOs have become more of a massive heap of everything in one channel. It's IRC hell without a damn @op or bot in sight to clean it up. I honestly think most devs wouldn't even know where to begin to put social tools back into MMOs, let alone actually start doing it, especially whn they always have the 'you can put them on ignore' cop out readily at hand.
The way to create game communities from a game's playerbase, is to allow people to function like people and not some utopian ideal of the way people should act if Ghandi and John Lennon redesigned the universe.
That sounds like you want to let people establish click (I dont know the proper spelling, but its like small groups of people and is usually associated with the highschool crowd) Clicks cause disturbance between groups. The groups stat fighting eachother and individuals that want in the click start fighting to be allowed in.
I am not sure if this is the answer we are looking for, even if this is what human nature wants. I know the utopia thing is hard, but if you aim at moving the moon, you may end up atleast moving mountains!
Is a community anything more than a clique? If you force the rap fans into the same group with the metal heads and the country music boys, does it create a better or worse scenario than allowing each to gravitate to their own group? You say cliques cause disturbance between groups but you don't see the contradiction in that statement. Would it be any less disturbance to have those groups on top of each other? The disturbance happens when they are forced to clash.
Rather than paste the whole thing here, here is a link that explains the benefits of division further.
If you're looking for lyrics to an updated rendition We Are the World, we can work on that, but if we are looking for an actual solution, allowingpeopel to function like people makes far more sense.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Haven't gone through all the answers but here's mine :
First, we need a change of perspective : when filling the ranks of a guild, no matter the game, we shouldn't look for the best players but for the nicest ones. If they can be nice AND good, that's a plus.. People really need to go back to the basics and remember why they started playing MMOs in the first place.. Interactions, common goals, cooperations... the older ones like me will want to add exploration to that too..
Second, do not tolerate mean, anti-social, a** hats (or whatever you want to call them) around you, the reason they keep roaming is that we keep accepting those behaviors are normal on the internet and that WE have to suck up and deal with it. When it should really be the other way around. So keep the morons out of your guild and groups.
Those two help marginalize the odd ones and like every normal human being, if they keep getting painted in a corner, they'll grow bored and leave or adjust their behavior in order to be accepted by the group.
Finally, another small point, just be nice... Help out the people around, group up with strangers for no other reasons than just play the game with them... Put to use all the stuff your mother used to tell you when it comes to social interactions and you should be just fine..
Is a community anything more than a clique? If you force the rap fans into the same group with the metal heads and the country music boys, does it create a better or worse scenario than allowing each to gravitate to their own group? You say cliques cause disturbance between groups but you don't see the contradiction in that statement. Would it be any less disturbance to have those groups on top of each other? The disturbance happens when they are forced to clash.
Rather than paste the whole thing here, here is a link that explains the benefits of division further.
If you're looking for lyrics to an updated rendition We Are the World, we can work on that, but if we are looking for an actual solution, allowingpeopel to function like people makes far more sense.
Thank you for spelling clique I see your point, allowing people to do what they want. I am a college student so maybe my view is skewed from someone that is a bit older. I feel like as soon as I got in college the cliques died and it is just a melting pot. Everyone is together and I do not see many cliques. Maybe after college that all changes, but I like how I can talk with someone and they are completely different than me. It just takes a certain amount of civility to communicate between cliques.
Also, how would you implement said cliques? Like they can create sub forums? or sub servers in a game?
Woooooo, you need a hug friend Just so you know, I know their is evil, and all the stuff you are talking about. I have lived alot of places, and seen some stuff I wish I could un-see. I choose to see the world as good because I hope it is mostly good.
I understand that alot of people are like you, that they see the negative and live in it and can't see the positive. People think that it is intelligent to be negative, that they have a better view of everything. I say it is the oppostie. People the live in the negative have a negative life and people that live in the positive have a positive life.
If you can not tell already, I read the secret a while ago and I really thought it was an amazing concept. Basically, for anyone that has not read it I can sum it up as: you are what you think. Think happy you'll be happy and happy things will happen to you.
I think we can make a difference, I like to think the world is good and nice, and I am a very optimistic person. We are not here to discuss me though, but to come up with an idea to help the community as a whole be happier, nicer people!
I think I'm good for a while.
You hope it is good, how's the meant to help anyone else?
You clearly don't understand me at all, I'm not negative.
There is so much love and joy in me, for my friends, my family and the world as a whole. There is so much hope in me, but when I see a naive person posting illegitimate information about how wonderful the world is I just have to shake my head and say:
"No, that's ridiculous."
You read the secret huh? So I'm talking to a person who doesn't even have their own views in life. Why bother when in a few years you'll be onto the next fad?
You can't make a difference if you think the world is good and nice. You can only fix something if you see it for what it is.
I'll do my best to make a difference, but you, you've got a long ways to go before you can even hope of doing anything worthwhile.
I would recommend by forgetting everything you've heard from "The Secret" and going to "The Library".
Happy =/= Nice
Happy people might have a little more social tolerance, but that's where it ends.
Have you guys ever heard about the just laugh thing? If you are sad or whatever just force yourself to laugh or smile. You end up feeling better and wanting to smile. You could say the same thing might happen hear.
It is possible that making a player be nice so they may get their "EPIX L00TZ" may also inturn make them happy and nice because they were doing it. Just a thought.
If everyone did that, the world would be a much better place.
I can't tell if your replies are the result of naivety, a cleverly hidden agenda or trolling, so I'm done here. Cheers! o/
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Agree with above, in wow hiring is all about 'skill' and track record for example, which is driven by a game consumes with 'progression'. As people are defined by these attributes peeps over all it puts a horrible skew on aggressive and competitive behaviours above all. In gw2 you get a very different vibe in guild, although I have been in a gw2 guild that had leadership that tried to foster the 'hardcore' blah blah attitude and it was a total social void.
Rift interestingly has a kind of middle ground due to the greater options for progression.
My point is that you can clearly see the relationship between game style and behaviour.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Happy people might have a little more social tolerance, but that's where it ends.
Very good point.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by LadyEuphei Again, this is just a differing whole view of society. You think they are evil, I do not. Saying you know a few truely evil people is like saying you know a fat gamer so we are all fat.
And yet your "everybody is good" view is any different? I did not say, nor ever will say, "Everybody (or society) is evil." I said there are evil people within society. This is a huge difference. Everyone has good and evil aspects in them. Everyone has the choice which side to let out. Evil people, when they want something, can be the nicest people in the world. Until they get what they wanted.
Originally posted by LadyEuphei Now you did stumble on a good point. If we could make people feel like their actions stick. That action will have reprecussions and that karma is in effect on the internet, maybe people would think twice about being rude. With no feed back system in place, it is a waste of time for people to care about what they do.
In the early days of United States settlement, shunning was an effective punishment for wrongdoers. Wouldn't work in today's ultra-interconnected society, though. Unfortunately, we are dealing with businesses here, and every ban costs that business income. There is one good point for B2P models here Ban a player and you already have their money from the box sale. No loss to the business side, unless they are spending cash in your cash shop.
Originally posted by LadyEuphei Maybe some system to make people think about their actions?
I would be all for this. But in my opinion, these systems are up to game companies, not the players. I would love to see physical threats and rape/stalking/death threat comments get banned from games.
Trash talk is different for different people. Whenever a comment gets under one's skin, the other player has crossed that player's personal line. How does one "regulate" that? Or do we go totally to the other side and ANY trash talk is a ban-able offense? I wouldn't mind, but that crosses over the freedoms line for me. True, we only have the freedoms that others give us, and especially with regards to gaming, but I just personally get my hackles up at the mere thought of restrictions, for the good or bad. I truly want people to be who they are, for the good or bad.
It is a very slippery slope when one wants to regulate how others act. What is offensive to one is not always offensive to others. Who gets to decide?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
Did it ever occur to you, that, that is who they actually are?
They're just conforming to the rules society set for them, when those rules don't exist (the internet) that's when they really come out of their shells.
You're also entirely contradictory, because here you are making a thread that attempts to segregate people for acting in a certain way (rude, angry, verbose, cruel) and then promoting them to act however they are.
It's up to the game developers, game support staff etc. to moderate online communities. Much like it is the responsibility of MMORPG.com staff to moderate this site.
I honestly can't see how you're any better than the people you're chastising in this thread.
Hi
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
The sad part about this, is your outlook on the situation. The only reason you see my posts as contradictory is because you see the world as evil. I like to think that it is a good place full of good people. If you see it the way I do, then being yourself and not being rude are the same thing. I understand it is hard to change your view for just a second and to live in other peoples shoes, but try it some time, look at the world and think of it as a good place and you may find you do not want to go back to the other way of thinking.
BTW I also never mentioned segregation at any time. I am trying to see if we can come up with a good way of fixing a broken community. Making it more enjoyable for all!
Valient effort, but I'm afraid this thread won't solve any problems.
You may overcome 1000 different hurdles, but as long as there are teenagers talking to adults as if they are teenagers as well, there will be conflicts.
If you think you can stop teenagers from inappropriate language, flaming and baiting......you should get a masters in child psychology; don't limit yourself to the mmo world.
I also disagree with the premise that thinking to please another is "mind freedom." Your statement:
"I want people to be themselves instead of being these cruel people they turn into only on the internet."
Illustrates that you truly DON'T want people to be themselves. You want them to acceptable to you. Do you believe nobody who is a dick on the internet does not want to be a dick on the internet? If you do, then we have come to an impasse.
I believe that people are responsible for their own actions and decisions. Everyone has choices. Some choose wisely and others do not. Blaming some outside influence falls flat when not everyone in that situation decides the same.
Now, would I enjoy a much less toxic gaming community? Of course I would. But in no way will I be party to forcing people to behave in a way acceptable to *me*. I am not in a position to dictate to others how to behave. And nobody else is, either, with the possible exception of game publishers within the boundaries their own games.
**gets tinfoil hat ready**
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Agreed. The poison is no doubt game related and it's getting particularely nasty when too much zealotic fanbois clash with zealotic haters. I was following some threads in Mortal Online lately and was reliefed when reading in threads related to Vanguard. Sadly I have no solution to this. The "report button" here surely ain't doing it cause some of the mods are taking a report way too easy and ban the wrong people due to not investigating the case thoroughly enough.
Edit: Sorry for not reading the whole thread and being a bit out of the flow here.
Again, this is just a differing whole view of society. You think they are evil, I do not. Saying you know a few truely evil people is like saying you know a fat gamer so we are all fat.
Now you did stumble on a good point. If we could make people feel like their actions stick. That action will have reprecussions and that karma is in effect on the internet, maybe people would think twice about being rude. With no feed back system in place, it is a waste of time for people to care about what they do.
Maybe some system to make people think about their actions?
That's exactly what it does. There's no evidence that group centric MMOs have a more positive community. If anything, the MMOs that do not have forced grouping but offer ways for players to collaborate have far more established communities because people are interacting with others because they choose to, not because they have to.
ATITD, UO, Free Realms, Puzzle Pirates and EVE Online have far more socialization and interaction outside of the guild unit than most forced-grouping MMOs. The most notable exception is FFXI, and the key to that game's success lies in the linkshell being more than just a group but being in a specific group that one seeks to join and be an active part of. It excels in its social aspects because it emphasizes not the loot you need to use others to get but the group unit itself.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Have you guys ever heard about the just laugh thing? If you are sad or whatever just force yourself to laugh or smile. You end up feeling better and wanting to smile. You could say the same thing might happen hear.
It is possible that making a player be nice so they may get their "EPIX L00TZ" may also inturn make them happy and nice because they were doing it. Just a thought.
The internet is as much one big community as the whole planet is. There is a reason society exist of 100s of subcultures/communities. Go find a subcommunity that shares you views, you feel good by and that shuns those you feel are toxic.
You really do not have to play and go along with the whole of internet or the whole MMO community.
No, I see your post as contradictory from a logical standpoint. I don't see the world as evil, there is good and bad everywhere.
The world isn't a good place full of good people, you might note that one of the favorite arguments against God's is the overwhelming presence of evil throughout the world. You're clearly living in a microcosm, and you think that, that isolated society of good will is a wider reflection of the world.
I can fully accept your view, you think that the world is full of good people. I think that's wrong, history, nature and every accurate book ever written would contest your opinion. I appreciate that some people are naive, and I don't judge you for that, that's me being open minded.
Why would I look at the world and think of it as a good place? It's not a good place, for me to accept that it was would be a lie. Problems have to be acknowledged to fix them -- The world could be a good place. Not with your way of thinking, of course.
I can never think like you do, barring a lobotomy. (That's not to say that you lack intelligence, just that I would need to lose a massive amount of knowledge.)
You don't need to say the word, by saying that one group of people need 'fixing' you're already in the wrong. The gaming community isn't broken, the worldwide community is.
If you want to make a difference, stop posting on this god awful forum.
Hi
We really need to turn that frown upside-down.
Just laugh when your wife dies?
You need to grow up fast kid.
Hi
Fat people exist, evil people exist.
Though I'd prefer the term overweight.
Hi
Same goes with real life, same rules apply, just be a bit kinder to each other..if you have a problem with someone, instead of retaliating in public forums, send them a pm and talk to them in private...who knows maybe you two can work it out and make friends out of it.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Woooooo, you need a hug friend
Just so you know, I know their is evil, and all the stuff you are talking about. I have lived alot of places, and seen some stuff I wish I could un-see. I choose to see the world as good because I hope it is mostly good.
I understand that alot of people are like you, that they see the negative and live in it and can't see the positive. People think that it is intelligent to be negative, that they have a better view of everything. I say it is the oppostie. People the live in the negative have a negative life and people that live in the positive have a positive life. People with knowledge should understand that life is what you make of it, so why make it all negative? You are only hurting yourself!
If you can not tell already, I read the secret a while ago and I really thought it was an amazing concept. Basically, for anyone that has not read it I can sum it up as: you are what you think. Think happy you'll be happy and happy things will happen to you.
I think we can make a difference, I like to think the world is good and nice, and I am a very optimistic person. We are not here to discuss me though, but to come up with an idea to help the community as a whole be happier, nicer people!
Is a community anything more than a clique? If you force the rap fans into the same group with the metal heads and the country music boys, does it create a better or worse scenario than allowing each to gravitate to their own group? You say cliques cause disturbance between groups but you don't see the contradiction in that statement. Would it be any less disturbance to have those groups on top of each other? The disturbance happens when they are forced to clash.
Rather than paste the whole thing here, here is a link that explains the benefits of division further.
If you're looking for lyrics to an updated rendition We Are the World, we can work on that, but if we are looking for an actual solution, allowingpeopel to function like people makes far more sense.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Haven't gone through all the answers but here's mine :
First, we need a change of perspective : when filling the ranks of a guild, no matter the game, we shouldn't look for the best players but for the nicest ones. If they can be nice AND good, that's a plus.. People really need to go back to the basics and remember why they started playing MMOs in the first place.. Interactions, common goals, cooperations... the older ones like me will want to add exploration to that too..
Second, do not tolerate mean, anti-social, a** hats (or whatever you want to call them) around you, the reason they keep roaming is that we keep accepting those behaviors are normal on the internet and that WE have to suck up and deal with it. When it should really be the other way around. So keep the morons out of your guild and groups.
Those two help marginalize the odd ones and like every normal human being, if they keep getting painted in a corner, they'll grow bored and leave or adjust their behavior in order to be accepted by the group.
Finally, another small point, just be nice... Help out the people around, group up with strangers for no other reasons than just play the game with them... Put to use all the stuff your mother used to tell you when it comes to social interactions and you should be just fine..
Thank you for spelling clique
I see your point, allowing people to do what they want. I am a college student so maybe my view is skewed from someone that is a bit older. I feel like as soon as I got in college the cliques died and it is just a melting pot. Everyone is together and I do not see many cliques. Maybe after college that all changes, but I like how I can talk with someone and they are completely different than me. It just takes a certain amount of civility to communicate between cliques.
Also, how would you implement said cliques? Like they can create sub forums? or sub servers in a game?
I think I'm good for a while.
You hope it is good, how's the meant to help anyone else?
You clearly don't understand me at all, I'm not negative.
There is so much love and joy in me, for my friends, my family and the world as a whole. There is so much hope in me, but when I see a naive person posting illegitimate information about how wonderful the world is I just have to shake my head and say:
"No, that's ridiculous."
You read the secret huh? So I'm talking to a person who doesn't even have their own views in life. Why bother when in a few years you'll be onto the next fad?
You can't make a difference if you think the world is good and nice. You can only fix something if you see it for what it is.
I'll do my best to make a difference, but you, you've got a long ways to go before you can even hope of doing anything worthwhile.
I would recommend by forgetting everything you've heard from "The Secret" and going to "The Library".
Happy =/= Nice
Happy people might have a little more social tolerance, but that's where it ends.
Hi
If everyone did that, the world would be a much better place.
I can't tell if your replies are the result of naivety, a cleverly hidden agenda or trolling, so I'm done here. Cheers! o/
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Rift interestingly has a kind of middle ground due to the greater options for progression.
My point is that you can clearly see the relationship between game style and behaviour.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Very good point.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Trash talk is different for different people. Whenever a comment gets under one's skin, the other player has crossed that player's personal line. How does one "regulate" that? Or do we go totally to the other side and ANY trash talk is a ban-able offense? I wouldn't mind, but that crosses over the freedoms line for me. True, we only have the freedoms that others give us, and especially with regards to gaming, but I just personally get my hackles up at the mere thought of restrictions, for the good or bad. I truly want people to be who they are, for the good or bad.
It is a very slippery slope when one wants to regulate how others act. What is offensive to one is not always offensive to others. Who gets to decide?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR