Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Hating the Haters

13468912

Comments

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Axxar
    I actually prefer faction locks. I want each side to feel unique with its own races and classes. But I don't think they've said whether classes are unique to each faction yet.

    I respect that but how would you have felt if they didn't lock factions, or never even mentioned it?  I couldn't see people fighting for this option if it was never on the table.

    Personally don't mind faction locks in some games but imo it doesn't fit in an Elder Scrolls game.  Even the era which they are depicting was barbaric and orderless, it would've been near impossible for everyone from a race to support one cause (with the High Elves being an exception).  I feel like there are other ways to make each side feel unique without taking away the freedom many have came to expect in an Elder Scrolls game.

    Seeing as the Lore Master at Bethesda himself says you're wrong is plenty enough reason for me to believe in the company that created the lore and backstory over some internet personna with an agenda.

     

     

    With that being said, yes the lore doesn't expressely say there were factions liek this but neither does it say they weren't.  Seeing as Matt Firor is the brains behind both DAoC and the low amount of MMO's who've used this 3 faction system it isn't out of the realm of the believable to go with this style of conflict as opposed to the open conflict or 2 faction conflict both of which has been done to death over the course of 15 years of MMO.

     

    Call me crazy but I prefer to play and explore systems in which have hardly been done over something that is the industry norm.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • desirieldesiriel PisaPosts: 98Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Blind hatred is unreasonable.

    But the hatred surrounding TESO gets less and less blind everyday: people are holding what the devs say and show against them. And as others have said, even the historically over-positive writers here at MMORPG.com have all stated TESO is going to be a more or less typical themepark.

    So... what? Criticizing TESO as a themepark is what? Besides true?

    ES is a very popular and much beloved RPG IP and many fans of that IP are legitimately complaining that the MMO they are trying to sell is almost nothing like the SPG games that made the IP popular.

    Guess what?

    Too Bad.

    When a developer chooses to use a popular IP, they get the marketing bump from the name recognition, which was the point, but they also get the "baggage" of what that IP brings to the table. And if they deviate too far from being "true" to that IP, then they can pay the penalty for that with the fans.

    Which is what is happening here.

    TESO will be/is nothing like the SPGs of the ES IP and Zenimax is going to hear about that.

    And frankly, that is not unreasonable.

     

    This. Apparently people don't see the difference here between the usual hating machine and TESO's situation.

    If this game were based on (almost) any other IP or created its own (much like Rift did), "hating" would be quite less vocal. Call it "Abracadabra Online", with 3-factions PVP and some elements of semi-action combat and it would have had its own legitimate following.

    Using the ES IP which is all about free and sandbox content they shot in their feet and they're going to get suppression fire all the way to release (and even more after I presume). And rightly so.

    In the first announcement interviews the devs even cited WoW as one of their main point of reference for developing TESO (and the community backlash was such that they kept silent for weeks).

    So there are a lot of motivations and informations for us not liking the development of this game. And this is called "Disapproval", not "Blind Hate". Of course it is as legitimate for others to like it of course.

    PS: This talks remind me about an IP which already had its own sandox game and got a supposedly successful and multi-millionaire themepark translation with tons of promised features and, above all, true to the IP spirit and soul.

    Go figure: they called it SWTOR and we got a bad WoW-clone with lightsabers. So, again, we have plenty of motivations and precedents to be skeptic about TESO. 

  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Danbury, DEPosts: 390Member Uncommon

    I hate TESO.  Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate it.  Gargabe three faction idiot DAOC system and that game was not all that great either.  No freedom, themepark, crap ass WOW clone.  Take a great IP and rip all the stuff that was great about it and give you some crappark MMO and try to tell you it is ES.

     

    Oh, I applied for Beta...heh, am looking forward to the game.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Wait how can a game be both a wow clone and a daoc clone? Your not making sense daoc is nothing like wow AT ALL. they have nothing in common. Wow is a glorified lobby game where one you level you sit in cities queing to do instanced shit. Daoc is all open world and has no instances at all.
  • dinamsdinams Muriae, VAPosts: 1,362Member

    wait

    if you hate the haters dont that make you a hater of haters?

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    OP...my thoughts

    The haters...those negative people.....they have always been around...they always will be.I don't know if there are more of them or they have just gotten more vocal.I think they voice a s strong undercurrent of disatisfaction many of us are feeling about the mmog genre and perhaps the  sorry state of the RW in general. These nay sayers aren't going away.

     

    My answer...i try to talk to people who want to talk, not just complain.I go to forums that have fewer negative posters. I never think I can change other peoples minds with my posts,nor do I try to.I just state my opinion and move on(so no extended  conversations  or discussion).Thats how I handle it(that may not be your way...but its mine).

    I will also say..given all the horrendouslybad game design desions its VERY easy to slip into the negativity being expressed.So often I just read the latest news and move on.

    As for ESO. I'm optomistic.Like many I've applied for beta and hope to be selected.I'm playing ES SKYRIM(until TESO comes out) and having a LOT of fun.

     

  • moguy2moguy2 Saint Peters, MOPosts: 337Member
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    The hate train has well and truly moved from gw2 to TESO, you guys are getting way too predictable. Some people like being miserable, i hope the mods crack down on it because it's making this place a depressing place to visit.

    This place has always been a miserable depressing place to visit. You have seasoned posters who say the same thing over and over , just changing a couple words,  to up their count. I mean seriously I have never NOT bought a game cause of this website or its posters. I would rather lead my life than have it lead by people who make a habit of living on these forums.

    And seriously OP if you are posting this you too are a follower of others and not a leader of yourself. Go figure.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,647Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by moguy2
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    The hate train has well and truly moved from gw2 to TESO, you guys are getting way too predictable. Some people like being miserable, i hope the mods crack down on it because it's making this place a depressing place to visit.

    This place has always been a miserable depressing place to visit. You have seasoned posters who say the same thing over and over , just changing a couple words,  to up their count. I mean seriously I have never NOT bought a game cause of this website or its posters. I would rather lead my life than have it lead by people who make a habit of living on these forums.

    And seriously OP if you are posting this you too are a follower of others and not a leader of yourself. Go figure.

     

    What made me chuckle about your post are the words under your avatar... 'I just wish I had something positive to say'...

    Pot calling kettle maybe?

    The most depressing posts on these forums, in my opinion, are those continously criticising the community here. You say this is a miserable place to visit? I ask you what are *you* doing to make it better? How does having 'nothing positive to say' create a better environment? At least the guys that complain about the games are here talking about *games* and not other posters.

    Like I say, you are not *in* traffic, you *are* traffic. No one is better or made superior (except in their own head) by talking as if it the other guys fault all the time. Folks need to look at their own content and tone and their contribution to the forums before attacking others IMO.

    As in most things in life I feel you will find here what *you* want to find here. Depressing people will find it depressing, fun people will find it fun, debaters will find a debate. You will get offended if you want to be offended.

    Improve things by being a objectively critical constructive poster with a sense of humour and a resiliant skin, not whinging about others. Lead by example. That's my advice anyhow.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Ides385

    I made this account because I was tired of all the generic negativity surrounding a game we know little about.

    SNIP

    I might end up hating this game, but I'm not going to bash it when its obviously something that is somewhat oiginal

     1. We know some details, those are the details we are HATING because all but just a few details smacks of NOT TES, but DaoC with the TES name.

    2. Original? Your post is obvious, you tell people not to hate because we know little...but then you claim its original...based on what? we know little remember? OH yeah!

    So far the only thing I see that is original is making a sequal to a game then changing the name of it and using another games skins to increase interest in it.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota

    I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

    It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

    EverQuest was an open ended themepark, so it could be possible for TESO.  Still, I'm much more interested in EQNext not only for its mix of both (sandpark) but also for its slower paced combat  : )

    image
  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by moguy2
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    The hate train has well and truly moved from gw2 to TESO, you guys are getting way too predictable. Some people like being miserable, i hope the mods crack down on it because it's making this place a depressing place to visit.

    This place has always been a miserable depressing place to visit. You have seasoned posters who say the same thing over and over , just changing a couple words,  to up their count. I mean seriously I have never NOT bought a game cause of this website or its posters. I would rather lead my life than have it lead by people who make a habit of living on these forums.

     

    I don't base my gameplay decisions from this site either. If I did that I would have missed out on some really good games and wasted money on some truly horrific ones. 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Axxar

    I'd survive, but I'd still prefer they locked them. I think it worked really well in DAoC to make the Realms feel unique.

    I would rather have DAoC2 than see TES turned into some distored imitation.  Personally I don't think locking races into factions has anything to do with making the "realms" unique.  I would prefer they focus on making a game that was unique and true to the IP rather than a knock off.

     

    Originally posted by Nikopol

    After all, the thing that appeals to me about the TES games is the open world, free-roaming, variety and distraction based gameplay. If this game can deliver on that online, it's worth a go in my book.  Though I have to say they got strike one on the free-roaming thing; denying access to enemy territories is not a good idea in my book. I hope they haven't shut the door on that.

    That strike one for you is worth about 2 for me and from everything I've heard they've slammed the door on world exploration.  It is promoted on the temporarly official ESO forums that if we don't like it, we should create an alt or get over it.  We are told this is not a TES game but a spin-off of the series and if we want to explore to go play Skyrim.

     

    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    I don't see how you can hate on a game without even playing it. I hate swtor, but that's because I payed a lot of money for it, it was crap, and I only got 2 weeks play out of it.

    I disagree with the game because they have locked races into factions.  In addition we are unable to explore the whole world of Tamriel.  I don't need to play the game to see that they've already excluded freedom of choice and exploration from a franchise that embraces these elements.

     

    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I respect that but how would you have felt if they didn't lock factions, or never even mentioned it?  I couldn't see people fighting for this option if it was never on the table.

    Personally don't mind faction locks in some games but imo it doesn't fit in an Elder Scrolls game.  Even the era which they are depicting was barbaric and orderless, it would've been near impossible for everyone from a race to support one cause (with the High Elves being an exception).  I feel like there are other ways to make each side feel unique without taking away the freedom many have came to expect in an Elder Scrolls game.

    Seeing as the Lore Master at Bethesda himself says you're wrong is plenty enough reason for me to believe in the company that created the lore and backstory over some internet personna with an agenda.

    With that being said, yes the lore doesn't expressely say there were factions liek this but neither does it say they weren't.  Seeing as Matt Firor is the brains behind both DAoC and the low amount of MMO's who've used this 3 faction system it isn't out of the realm of the believable to go with this style of conflict as opposed to the open conflict or 2 faction conflict both of which has been done to death over the course of 15 years of MMO.

    Call me crazy but I prefer to play and explore systems in which have hardly been done over something that is the industry norm.

    Ohhh really, the Lore Master himself says I'm wrong... do you have a link for that?  All of the books and lore I've read support my claim (moreso than 3 different races aligning themselves so perfectly into 3 different factions).  There was many struggles between and within races at this time.

    http://www.imperial-library.info/content/second-era
    During the Second Era, the people of Tamriel often use the term "Common Era" when referring to the Second Era. This habit is uncommon in any other Era. This Era is also known as the Interregnum*.

    * An interregnum is a period of discontinuity or "gap" in a government, organization, or social order.

    Having 3 factions is perfectly fine imo.  I don't like the fact that they made the war racial when many races wasn't even that organized among themselves - I mean the Nords would've shit bricks if their high king aligned with Dunmers and Argonians.

    They could've put in the factions as 3 different groups fighting for control of Cyrodiil; The Nord High King, The Breton Merchant Lord and the High Elf Queen.  Then other races could be mixed in such as;

    • The Breton Merchant Lord hired an army of Redguards and captured Orcs as slaves to fight for him.
    • The Queen made many friends in her exploration and they joined her when she took rule.
    • The Nord High King has a Dark Elf adviser and the Argonians fight for him in hopes to gain their freedom.

    This would've been a setting that would allowed different races to join other factions.  It would make sense because everyone has their own interest and it isn't tied into the whole nation.

    Industry norm is to bring up DAoC in some way when talking about PvP.  Many of the systems they are describing is nothing more than modified versions of systems already in other MMOs.  I would've LOVED to have something that isn't normally done and TES would've been a great IP for it.

  • SunscourSunscour Grant, ALPosts: 153Member Uncommon

    Well, I am going to play it.

    Then I will pass judgement.

    Life is Short, Read a Book.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Sunscour

    Well, I am going to play it.

    Then I will pass judgement.

    Unfortantly by then it will be too late.  Usually I'm the same way but TES hits so close to home with me.  In most games I'm the one defending them from all the scrutiny.

    You have a good outlook.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
     

     

    What made me chuckle about your post are the words under your avatar... 'I just wish I had something positive to say'...

    Pot calling kettle maybe?

    The most depressing posts on these forums, in my opinion, are those continously criticising the community here. You say this is a miserable place to visit? I ask you what are *you* doing to make it better? How does having 'nothing positive to say' create a better environment? At least the guys that complain about the games are here talking about *games* and not other posters.

    Like I say, you are not *in* traffic, you *are* traffic. No one is better or made superior (except in their own head) by talking as if it the other guys fault all the time. Folks need to look at their own content and tone and their contribution to the forums before attacking others IMO.

    As in most things in life I feel you will find here what *you* want to find here. Depressing people will find it depressing, fun people will find it fun, debaters will find a debate. You will get offended if you want to be offended.

    Improve things by being a objectively critical constructive poster with a sense of humour and a resiliant skin, not whinging about others. Lead by example. That's my advice anyhow.

     I can't see how your posts in this thread are any different. Just look at the sentence in yellow. Which looks nothing more than a reverse of the statements you're criticizing. Secondly I don't see anything wrong with members of a community looking inward at their community as well as it's habits, as that's how things get better in most situations.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It's already too late they've been working on the game for 5 years
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Seattle, WAPosts: 1,098Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota

    I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

    It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

    *cough*

    *cough*

    It's never stopped you before.

    You buy and play these games anyway.

    image

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,647Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Vesavius
     

     

    What made me chuckle about your post are the words under your avatar... 'I just wish I had something positive to say'...

    Pot calling kettle maybe?

    The most depressing posts on these forums, in my opinion, are those continously criticising the community here. You say this is a miserable place to visit? I ask you what are *you* doing to make it better? How does having 'nothing positive to say' create a better environment? At least the guys that complain about the games are here talking about *games* and not other posters.

    Like I say, you are not *in* traffic, you *are* traffic. No one is better or made superior (except in their own head) by talking as if it the other guys fault all the time. Folks need to look at their own content and tone and their contribution to the forums before attacking others IMO.

    As in most things in life I feel you will find here what *you* want to find here. Depressing people will find it depressing, fun people will find it fun, debaters will find a debate. You will get offended if you want to be offended.

    Improve things by being a objectively critical constructive poster with a sense of humour and a resiliant skin, not whinging about others. Lead by example. That's my advice anyhow.

     I can't see how your posts in this thread are any different.

     

    They are different because I am not calling the whole community depressing.

    I also give positive constructive advice.

    Fundamental differences.

     

    Look, we can squabble about this for 4 more pages, or you can see the spirit what I said was offered in and take it as that. We can *all* be better. It is never just the other guys fault. Look to ourselves before criticising others. Lead by example.

    I prefer to not trade blows over this one tbh. I will just say what I have said and you guys can take or leave it. In the end it really makes no difference to me in the long run.

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Seattle, WAPosts: 1,098Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by Yamota

    I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

    It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

    just like how warcraft was an rts and they made it a mmorpg, is that not pissing on your fanbase? You've no idea what this game will be like yet you are hating it already, see it for yourself before you start throwing tantrums.

    very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

    We all know he will pick up the game, then subject everyone to "I TOLD YOU SO!"

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    They are different because I am not calling the community depressing.

    I also give positive constructive advice.

    Fundamental differences.

    Isn't the purpose of a thread like this to attempt to get people to open their mind a little and give things a chance? Is that not positive advice?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • SiderasSideras HelsingborgPosts: 231Member
    There will be housing OP, pretty sure I read or heard that in an interview but it won't be in by release. Something about other things needing priority, wich makes sense.
  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member

    It appears that it's TESO's turn to be hated on after GW2.

    Both games have bright futures...despite what this community says.

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It's already too late they've been working on the game for 5 years

    You are right. Zenimax wont change a damn thing. This train is on the tracks and speeding towards its destiny

    Its too late to stop it.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It's already too late they've been working on the game for 5 years

    Well, you are right in some ways.

    I'm hoping that maybe they can at least open factioned areas for exploration purposes only.  No PvP (althought I would've like some type of wpvp flag option - I'd settle for exploration), players would wear a disguise while traveling in other areas, can't talk to NPCs, use vendors or see chat.  They can go into towns and cities to look around but nothing else.

    I also seen another poster suggesting that players pick a faction at character creation.  You would be given perks to choose ESO's planned factions (such as xp or coin boosts) but you could forfeit these and make your own choice.

    I hate to be such a hater, I really do.  I don't mind that people like the game but I'm just really disappointed.  Usually I'm optimistic and defend titles from the haters.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,647Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    They are different because I am not calling the community depressing.

    I also give positive constructive advice.

    Fundamental differences.

    Isn't the purpose of a thread like this to attempt to get people to open their mind a little and give things a chance? Is that not positive advice?

     

    Like I say, people can take or leave what you choose to from what I posted. It's up to them. It's not a cleverness competition and I don't really do intentional 'forum PvP' like a few around here take pride in.

    I also was editing the post above while you was responding, just for the record.

13468912
This discussion has been closed.