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Just got confirmation they have not yet sold 2500 Ultimate Packs....

2

Comments

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
     

    Generally people have an issue with this kind of thing because if some out there actually pay this absurd amount of money for what equates to a $60 game then it gives the impression that its ok. 

    Diablo 3 - $60

    Marvel Heroes - $200

    Next ARPG - $400 lol... 

    Thankfully it seems most people have common sense since they have yet to sell 2500 ultimate packs. If they don't reach their goal we may even get lucky and it will snap them back to reality. 

    Actually D3 is free if you sell enough on the RMAH. It is actually more than free for me.

    Big if

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Yizle
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
     

    Generally people have an issue with this kind of thing because if some out there actually pay this absurd amount of money for what equates to a $60 game then it gives the impression that its ok. 

    Diablo 3 - $60

    Marvel Heroes - $200

    Next ARPG - $400 lol... 

    Thankfully it seems most people have common sense since they have yet to sell 2500 ultimate packs. If they don't reach their goal we may even get lucky and it will snap them back to reality. 

    Actually D3 is free if you sell enough on the RMAH. It is actually more than free for me.

    Big if

    Not that big .. i made may be $200 on it already .. bought MOP with it. Pump most back into the game, and i still have like $45 left.

    The best item i have sold is a witching hour at like $49 ... and that is by no means the highest. The cheaper items (like the $10 legendary) is not that rare if you play regularly. I only have like 500 hours on my main, and that is no where close to what some people put into the game.

    You do need to farm somewhat efficiently though. Spending a lot of hours in MP0  with no MF won't make any money for sure.

     

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Arcona
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79                                                                                                                                    

    Diablo 3 - $60

    Marvel Heroes - $200


    I think you should compare with League of Legends.

    How much to buy 16 champions and 32 skins in League of legends?

     

    I would if it were a MOBA, however it is not. 

     

    It is an ARPG trying to claim the title of MMORPG so those are the ones I will compare it to.

     

     

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Arcona
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79                                                                                                                                    

    Diablo 3 - $60

    Marvel Heroes - $200


    I think you should compare with League of Legends.

    How much to buy 16 champions and 32 skins in League of legends?

     

    I would if it were a MOBA, however it is not. 

     

    It is an ARPG trying to claim the title of MMORPG so those are the ones I will compare it to.

     

     

    There are wispers of a rumor of a MOBA-style BG in MH.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Arcona
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79                                                                                                                                    

    Diablo 3 - $60

    Marvel Heroes - $200


    I think you should compare with League of Legends.

    How much to buy 16 champions and 32 skins in League of legends?

     

    I would if it were a MOBA, however it is not. 

     

    It is an ARPG trying to claim the title of MMORPG so those are the ones I will compare it to.

     

     

    There are wispers of a rumor of a MOBA-style BG in MH.

    I haven't heard of any, the only MOBA news I've heard for Marvel is that Disney signed a contract with a Korean developer to make a Marvel Universe MOBA thats supposed to launch is 2014. 

    But in any case a single MOBA style BG does not make it a MOBA. 

    From whats been seen and said without the need of whispers and rumors we know its an ARPG that they are calling an MMO so... 

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Arcona
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79                                                                                                                                    

    Diablo 3 - $60

    Marvel Heroes - $200


    I think you should compare with League of Legends.

    How much to buy 16 champions and 32 skins in League of legends?

    I would if it were a MOBA, however it is not. 

     It is an ARPG trying to claim the title of MMORPG so those are the ones I will compare it to.

    It uses the League of Legends business model.

    We are talking about the business model.

    Even though you can unlock skins/costumes in MH by playing.

    I would never put down $200 before I had played it though, so I hope to get into beta :)

    There was one time I preordered a collecter's edition that cost almost as much though.

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    But in any case a single MOBA style BG does not make it a MOBA. 

    From whats been seen and said without the need of whispers and rumors we know its an ARPG that they are calling an MMO so... 

    A single MOBA style BG could make it a MOBA.

    The MMO part is true, since 50 players can play in the same area.

     

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Arcona
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Arcona
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79                                                                                                                                    

    Diablo 3 - $60

    Marvel Heroes - $200


    I think you should compare with League of Legends.

    How much to buy 16 champions and 32 skins in League of legends?

    I would if it were a MOBA, however it is not. 

     It is an ARPG trying to claim the title of MMORPG so those are the ones I will compare it to.

    It uses the League of Legends business model.

    We are talking about the business model.

    Even though you can unlock skins/costumes in MH by playing.

    I would never put down $200 before I had played it though, so I hope to get into beta :)

    There was one time I preordered a collecter's edition that cost almost as much though.

    Yep, but I'm not criticizing the business model itself. LoL's business model works and isn't really frowned upon due to the style of the game. It works for it. I and others are criticizing the use of a MOBA's business model for an ARPG. If it were a MOBA I'd have no qualms with making the comparison. It doesn't offer the same type of game play though, so discussing simply the business model for MOBA's doesn't fly. Its an ARPG, calling itself an MMO, pricing itself like a MOBA... 

     

    And yes, you are going to be able to unlock skins and costumes in game. The problem comes into play with the pricing of characters and etc. You have to make spending that $20+ worth it. The price of a single character is a bit worrisome because of how these things typically work. The harder (More time consuming) something is to get in game, the more it costs to buy it outright. An Epic Flying mount took forever to get in WoW (Prior to recent changes) yet you could outright buy one for $25. 

    The cost is relative to the difficulty (Time requirement) to insure players buy. 

     

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

     I and others are criticizing the use of a MOBA's business model for an ARPG. If it were a MOBA I'd have no qualms with making the comparison. It doesn't offer the same type of game play though, so discussing simply the business model for MOBA's doesn't fly. Its an ARPG, calling itself an MMO, pricing itself like a MOBA... 

    Other ARPG dont use the same costume/skin model. They have armor that changes appearence and gives stats.

    Marvel Heroes costumes are only visual, you find costumes as drops, and you find other item drops that boost stats at the same time.

    You can change custome and keep the same stats.

    This is why they can use the League of Legends business model.

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member
    I really hope they make us able to play as the vilians and make a MOBA/DOTA style battleground :)
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Arcona
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    But in any case a single MOBA style BG does not make it a MOBA. 

    From whats been seen and said without the need of whispers and rumors we know its an ARPG that they are calling an MMO so... 

    A single MOBA style BG could make it a MOBA.

    The MMO part is true, since 50 players can play in the same area.

     

    uh 50 players in the same area makes it a MMO? So BF3 is a MMO?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    From whats been seen and said without the need of whispers and rumors we know its an ARPG that they are calling an MMO so... 

    Actually, what they said is "Marvel Heroes combines the core game-play style of Action RPGs and MMOs" .. so at best you can say they claim MH as a hybrid of action RPG and MMO. In fact, they put action RPG FIRST.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
     

    Yep, but I'm not criticizing the business model itself. LoL's business model works and isn't really frowned upon due to the style of the game. It works for it. I and others are criticizing the use of a MOBA's business model for an ARPG. If it were a MOBA I'd have no qualms with making the comparison. It doesn't offer the same type of game play though, so discussing simply the business model for MOBA's doesn't fly. Its an ARPG, calling itself an MMO, pricing itself like a MOBA... 

     

    What is the problem? Why can't a ARPG use a MOBA business model? It is not like business models are restricted to single genres.

    Would you prefer a cash shop P2W model instead?

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    For a F2P arena game I found the prices to be a bit out of touch with the games they'll be competing with in the market. I mean I know the Marvel brand carries some weight, but the prepurchase prices for a beta that a lot of players will probably get to see for free also? I'm in the wrong business. Bottled water and pay to play betas.

    a yo ho ho

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf
    For a F2P arena game I found the prices to be a bit out of touch with the games they'll be competing with in the market. I mean I know the Marvel brand carries some weight, but the prepurchase prices for a beta that a lot of players will probably get to see for free also? I'm in the wrong business. Bottled water and pay to play betas.

    At the same time, they are giving away part of the game. So it depends on where you stand.

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member

    Would it make you feel better if they removed the ultimate pack and only had 5 heroes at launch? Cuz then it would be trully a $60 game.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Would it make you feel better if they removed the ultimate pack and only had 5 heroes at launch? Cuz then it would be trully a $60 game.

    At this point I don't think that would help. It looks as if this was designed with the current cash shop in mind. The starting 5 combined with current pricing simply indicates that a design decision was made to funnel players to the cash shop. I just don't see this playing out well. If the heroes don't require excessive amounts of work (Time) to unlock then it defeats the purpose of offering them on the cash shop at $20 a pop, if they do then f2p players aren't likely to stick around. 

    Removing the $200 offer doesn't remove the design decisions that would be required to make it an enticing offer and even then you are left with the rest of the offers requiring the same design decisions to work. 

     

    I'd rather pay the $60 up front and play a game designed around that ARPG business model rather than pay $20-$200 for a game thats sole design purposes is to funnel me to a cash shop. 

     

    A lot of MMO's and Others fail largely for a failure to use an appropriate business model for what the game has to offer. Not every game can survive as or is worth pay to play. Not every game is suited for free to play. Not every game is a good buy to play candidate. Not every free to play game is designed for the freemium model. Yet many publishers seem to feel the need to learn this the hard way. 

     

    Marvel Heroes was a prime example of a buy to play game, yet they went the free to play route hoping for even more revenue. 

     

    In any case do not concern yourself with my opinions to much. I've written off the game for a number of reasons. 

    1) The decision to go point and click with no WASD option even in the near future according to the devs. 

    2) Inappropriate business model for the type of game

    3) The starting 5 choices

    4) The cash shop focus the game is going to need to have to be profitable. Without funneling players to the cash shop and gating content its not going to make them any money since it lacks the initial price tag of other ARPG's. 

     

     

    I like discussing the issues the game has though with others so I will be popping in and out, if it bothers you simply ignore me and write me off as a hater because I have no intentions of playing. 

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
     

    I'd rather pay the $60 up front and play a game designed around that ARPG business model rather than pay $20-$200 for a game thats sole design purposes is to funnel me to a cash shop. 

    You wont see new MMO games without cashshops. Its the model they all go for, just recently 500 MMOs have went that way :)

    Beside you fail to notice that Marvel Heroes will release new heroes reguarly, and costumes. While you can play and unlock them all for free (even Heroes drops in the game) many people want to play the latest flair as fast as possible.

    So they have lots of heroes, and they have David Breivik to make the skills and the skill trees diverse.

    WASD movement in a ARPG? That is blasphemy.

    It's hard to tell if the full game will be good, there could be lack of content etc.  Gief beta :)

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Would it make you feel better if they removed the ultimate pack and only had 5 heroes at launch? Cuz then it would be trully a $60 game.

    Nope.  I'd feel better if the game were $20 outright, like its competitor, Torchlight 2.

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  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Would it make you feel better if they removed the ultimate pack and only had 5 heroes at launch? Cuz then it would be trully a $60 game.

    Nope.  I'd feel better if the game were $20 outright, like its competitor, Torchlight 2.

    They're not even in the same ballpark.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Would it make you feel better if they removed the ultimate pack and only had 5 heroes at launch? Cuz then it would be trully a $60 game.

    Nope.  I'd feel better if the game were $20 outright, like its competitor, Torchlight 2.

    They're not even in the same ballpark.

    Why not?  They are both ARPGs by former Diablo1-2 team members.  They look identical to me, except one is medieval and one is a super hero game charging an extra $180 for name recognition and little else.

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  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Would it make you feel better if they removed the ultimate pack and only had 5 heroes at launch? Cuz then it would be trully a $60 game.

    Nope.  I'd feel better if the game were $20 outright, like its competitor, Torchlight 2.

    They're not even in the same ballpark.

    Why not?  They are both ARPGs by former Diablo1-2 team members.  They look identical to me, except one is medieval and one is a super hero game charging an extra $180 for name recognition and little else.

    Does not look anywhere close to me but I guess I do not have as warped a vision. I will agree however that the pricing model is way overinflated.

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member
    Originally posted by Souldrainer
    Originally posted by birdycephon

    Would it make you feel better if they removed the ultimate pack and only had 5 heroes at launch? Cuz then it would be trully a $60 game.

    Nope.  I'd feel better if the game were $20 outright, like its competitor, Torchlight 2.

    Actually, it would be more accurate to compare it to Path of Exile.

    On topic, I don't begrudge rich people for using their money. Most of them work / worked pretty damn hard for it. However, I believe P.T. Barnum has a few famous quotes which could apply to someone paying $200 for a game they've never even played. Particularly one about a fool and their money...

    Edit: And if I'm dropping $200 for a product which I haven't even seen or played yet, you goddamn well better let me into the beta, and allow refunds if I'm not satisfied.

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    It would appear that this new attempt to raise the level of acceptable cash grab even further has finally brought us to the ceiling. Good news, but disturbing nonetheless that it took 200$ for a 60$ game for us to get there.

    I don't know what is people's problem with this. Just don't pay it. Why would  it bother you that someone else did?

    It is their product. Don't you think that they should be able to charge whatever they want?

    It is a free world. You are free not to buy.

    Do you know how the $15/month came to be for subs games?

    I'll skip a few steps here because at one point you paid per hours and whatnot. But when the idea of a monthly fee started growing you'd have games going for about $5/month if I remember correctly, then it increased to $10/month, $12/month etc. There was more or less of a 'survey' at one point that asked players how much they would be willing to pay to play per month, and soon after we settled on a $15 monthly fee.

    Say Blizzard for example decided that starting tomorrow, the monthly fee for WoW will be $20/month. Now what do you think will happen if players continue to pay at that higher price? Well it tells developers that it's alright to charge $20/month and more MMOs will appear charging $20/month. And eventually $20 will turn into $25, $30, or more. However what happens if players decide not to pay $20/month and leave the game? Well it will tell developers that players don't agree that MMOs are worth $20/month.

    The same applies to F2P cash shop. If you start selling stuff at $200 and players buy it, well for developers that will be a sign that they can charge even more. So that Double EXP Potion you bought last week for $1,99 might cost you $3,99 this week, and maybe next week it will be $4,99 or $5,99

    I already know your answer to this. "It's a free world. Don't play it if you don't like it." However if I as a player have invested both money and time in a game I liked, I think voicing my dissatisfaction with the new pricing is an absolutely reasonable action that may force the company to revert to the lower price  if enough players voice their opinions. This is exactly what happened with Allods Online (back in 08-09?) where the Cash Shop was so ridiculously overpriced that it nearly killed them until they began to slowly review their CS model (however they still have a relatively weak playerbase in comparison to what they could've had, had they not been greedy).

    If players would just shut themselves up when faced with a pricing that they believe is far too high for what it's worth, well developers will think that the pricing is just fine, when in reality it's the complete opposite. And soon we'll be faced with a market full of highly overpriced items that's become the new 'norm'. Something we pretty much all want to avoid, even if we've already fallen for this quite a few times.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • ArconaArcona VanlosePosts: 1,185Member
    Originally posted by Rednecksith

    Edit: And if I'm dropping $200 for a product which I haven't even seen or played yet, you goddamn well better let me into the beta, and allow refunds if I'm not satisfied.

    I havent seen any who complained about the game yet. Even though its under NDA, people will complain on twitter and forums etc

    It's a good sign :)

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