1) Most games are loot based now, making crafting items horrible and pointless. No true player based economy with good crafted items.
2) Resources used do not have different grades/quality, thus everyones crafted items are exactly like the next guys/gals.
3) Everyone can be everything now when crafting. You dont rely on others, you can make all subcomponents, final product etc.
4) Decay, lack of item damage/destruction. No repeat cuistomers for crafters. Its good for awhile but once everyone has their items your business doesnt do as well.
In SWG i had 4 active accounts and another i used from time to time. Had 5 crafters and 2 pure merchants out of the 9 characters, then 2 combat toons when i needed a break. An elder jedi from the early days and a BH just because i liked proving tht jedi's were not in god mode
As long as crafting as a system is really useful and you can create various and possibly unique items, I don't need the crafting "action" itself to be fun or complicated. In fact, if it's going to be a time consuming mini game that ends up not being fun, I'd rather it not get in the way at all. Click and done is OK.
With that, I'll agree with the OP in part. Because, yeah, I've never seen the act of crafting implemented in a fun way. I'm mostly in it for the big picture.
I hate crafting in MMO's. My ideal MMO would have a mini-game every time you craft an item. The better you do in it, the higher your chance at creating a higher quality item, or extra items, or you lose no materials, etc.
Originally posted by OgreRaper I hate crafting in MMO's. My ideal MMO would have a mini-game every time you craft an item. The better you do in it, the higher your chance at creating a higher quality item, or extra items, or you lose no materials, etc.
no, sorry but crafting isnt about freaking mini-games. I dont need to play a game inside of a game inside of another game to make a freaking item. Its a huge waste of time and effort. We have enough of those types of games and the crafting is the worst.
Crafting, economy, non-combat activities are for some reason the bane of the turds who make these games. Having dumbshit crafting or crafting that happens as you adventure is their way of saying "we know best," in a passive/aggressive manner.
I will give you an example of the process of making a set of RIS armor:
1. Master your Armorsmithing
2. Do a quest to be able to learn RIS armor crafting (Awesome quest BTW)
3. Go out and kill Kimogila for their scales(Not a guaranteed drop/you'll need a group)
4. Kill gurk kings for their hides( Not a guaranteed drop)
5. Gather the best resources needed to craft(gather samples/place harvesters)
6. Go get a crafting buff to craft better armor
7. Find the best crafting station available
8. Use factories if you want to speed up the process
9. Craft the armor
I hope I didn't forget anything, it's been a while
EDIT: I forgot that you need the woolamander harrower bone and peko peko albatross feather. Peko peko was a random boss that was very tough to kill
That does not sound entertaining. I do not approve.
Most crafters didn't go out and do all that hunting they would advertise that they needed certain resources and then set up a vender that would pay anyone that dropped off the requested material. My main char in SWG was a master scout/rifleman {read sniper} and I spent a lot of time getting materials for crafters. Personally I found the crafting dull. But this system had several advantages. The products the crafters made was really a lot better than looted gear and it wore out with use. The crafters gear was always in demand. But the real key was the interaction between the crafters, suppliers and customers. This interaction was one of the things that build the community in the game. And that community is one of the reasons the SWG vets are so bitter {still}, we miss it.
SWG was the only MMO I ever enjoyed crafting in. No other MMO comes close; they all feel like appendages to the main combat aspect of the game. They are usually level based and I find I out-level the gear I can make, or am in an area where the raw materials are no longer dropping, forcing me to go back to a lowbie area to face-roll mobs to take resource nodes I need to make gear I don't want, nor can I sell.
Crafting will never be "fixed" in MMO's until players and devs understand that not everyone should be a crafter. It should be a long and difficult process to master.
When everyone and their mother has every craft leveled on multiple alts and everyone is self sufficient, then crafting becomes meaningless.
Agreed. And, I wish MMO's would make crafters a seperate class.
That wont work. People will just make alts for crafting .. and complains it takes too much time.
Atleast they would keep playing, the alternative is the present, when players feel bored after a short time and quit.
Its the same old story "i played 4 years since vanilla and SUFFERED each day tring to raid, i am much happy now that i have beaten kel'thuzad with a pug" <quits soon after>.
I think I have a good rule of thumb that applies here:
If a simple bot or macro can do it, players shouldn't have to.
Crafting such as in Vanguard is so boring, so repeptitive and so much of a chore that I can't believe what kind of player would actually enjoy it. They had to go into lengths to prevent using macros and bots by switching the places of the buttons etc. and I'd say that is already a strong warning sign.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I will give you an example of the process of making a set of RIS armor:
1. Master your Armorsmithing
2. Do a quest to be able to learn RIS armor crafting (Awesome quest BTW)
3. Go out and kill Kimogila for their scales(Not a guaranteed drop/you'll need a group)
4. Kill gurk kings for their hides( Not a guaranteed drop)
5. Gather the best resources needed to craft(gather samples/place harvesters)
6. Go get a crafting buff to craft better armor
7. Find the best crafting station available
8. Use factories if you want to speed up the process
9. Craft the armor
I hope I didn't forget anything, it's been a while
EDIT: I forgot that you need the woolamander harrower bone and peko peko albatross feather. Peko peko was a random boss that was very tough to kill
That does not sound entertaining. I do not approve.
Most crafters didn't go out and do all that hunting they would advertise that they needed certain resources and then set up a vender that would pay anyone that dropped off the requested material. My main char in SWG was a master scout/rifleman {read sniper} and I spent a lot of time getting materials for crafters. Personally I found the crafting dull. But this system had several advantages. The products the crafters made was really a lot better than looted gear and it wore out with use. The crafters gear was always in demand. But the real key was the interaction between the crafters, suppliers and customers. This interaction was one of the things that build the community in the game. And that community is one of the reasons the SWG vets are so bitter {still}, we miss it.
I'm sorry...I didn't mean the crafter did the killing for resources. I forgot to mention that my combat character did it.
I think I have a good rule of thumb that applies here:
If a simple bot or macro can do it, players shouldn't have to.
Crafting such as in Vanguard is so boring, so repeptitive and so much of a chore that I can't believe what kind of player would actually enjoy it. They had to go into lengths to prevent using macros and bots by switching the places of the buttons etc. and I'd say that is already a strong warning sign.
When I asked around here for folks to recommend a great crafting system, they recommended Vanguard's system as being like SWG. I found no enjoyiment at all in it. I don't like any mini game system.
Personally I liked the crafting in EQ2. I liked the crafting in Vanguard somewhat more. But the best crafting I have seen in an MMO is Fallen Earth. Just about everything you pick up can be used in crafting and just about everything you can craft is potentially useful. And, you can queue a whole bunch of crafting, and then go adventure while it is being finished.
1) Most games are loot based now, making crafting items horrible and pointless. No true player based economy with good crafted items.
2) Resources used do not have different grades/quality, thus everyones crafted items are exactly like the next guys/gals.
3) Everyone can be everything now when crafting. You dont rely on others, you can make all subcomponents, final product etc.
4) Decay, lack of item damage/destruction. No repeat cuistomers for crafters. Its good for awhile but once everyone has their items your business doesnt do as well.
In SWG i had 4 active accounts and another i used from time to time. Had 5 crafters and 2 pure merchants out of the 9 characters, then 2 combat toons when i needed a break. An elder jedi from the early days and a BH just because i liked proving tht jedi's were not in god mode
Prefacing this with I was a huge resource holder in SWG.
1: Sure but even in a loot based game, crafters can make desireable things. Loot drops could be materials to forge giving interdependancy between crafters and dungeon runners for example. Crafting of vanity items. Etc.
2 I agree but different resource grades also have to give different stats or be easier to make or something.
3 I wish this was impossible. I do agree that lots of people want this but true crafters cringe at this as no one wants to buy their goods if everyone has an alt that can make the same things.
4 Depends on the system but yes I think item decay is a very good thing for an economy. Of course it does not have to be strict fire weapon, weapon does not work anymore. Eve for example has a decent economy because when a ship is destroyed some of the equipment mods on it are destroyed as well. But there is technically no decay (well, ammo maybe).
WoW style crafting should not even be called crafting. The best crafting in an MMO released in the last 5 years was FF14 crafting and even that had a myriad of problems associated with it.
Personally I liked the crafting in EQ2. I liked the crafting in Vanguard somewhat more. But the best crafting I have seen in an MMO is Fallen Earth. Just about everything you pick up can be used in crafting and just about everything you can craft is potentially useful. And, you can queue a whole bunch of crafting, and then go adventure while it is being finished.
I like FE crafting. I just found the game to be a ghost town.
"good" crafting systems comes down to the individuals opinion.
Example: I dont care one ounce how freaking detailed a crafting system is if the items are not usefull or I have to get a raid going in HOPES I get ONE crafting material to drop for an item I want to make.
Throwing grouping/raiding into the mix for crafting is done to make up for a WEAK game that requires a carrot on a stick to keep people playing...who the hell came up with the idea that to craft an item, you should have to go kill uber boss of ultra leet stomping for a .01% chance to get a scale of god guarding to drop?
give me a crafting system with 1000 items to craft, not just weapons/armor/potions, let me craft a mirror to hold in my hand, a broom...flowers, fireworks...and no, I shouldnt have to go gather 30 damn hides to craft a BOOT either....good crafting does not = being able to make a sword of melt your face off...I should have to quest for that, let me instead craft sword SKINS that I can put on whatever sword I have equiped to make it look better.
Making leet items does not = good crafting
Many items, large variety and usefull = good crafting
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Comments
4 major things that kill crafting in MMORPG's:
1) Most games are loot based now, making crafting items horrible and pointless. No true player based economy with good crafted items.
2) Resources used do not have different grades/quality, thus everyones crafted items are exactly like the next guys/gals.
3) Everyone can be everything now when crafting. You dont rely on others, you can make all subcomponents, final product etc.
4) Decay, lack of item damage/destruction. No repeat cuistomers for crafters. Its good for awhile but once everyone has their items your business doesnt do as well.
In SWG i had 4 active accounts and another i used from time to time. Had 5 crafters and 2 pure merchants out of the 9 characters, then 2 combat toons when i needed a break. An elder jedi from the early days and a BH just because i liked proving tht jedi's were not in god mode
As long as crafting as a system is really useful and you can create various and possibly unique items, I don't need the crafting "action" itself to be fun or complicated. In fact, if it's going to be a time consuming mini game that ends up not being fun, I'd rather it not get in the way at all. Click and done is OK.
With that, I'll agree with the OP in part. Because, yeah, I've never seen the act of crafting implemented in a fun way. I'm mostly in it for the big picture.
That does not sound entertaining. I do not approve.
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
no, sorry but crafting isnt about freaking mini-games. I dont need to play a game inside of a game inside of another game to make a freaking item. Its a huge waste of time and effort. We have enough of those types of games and the crafting is the worst.
Crafting, economy, non-combat activities are for some reason the bane of the turds who make these games. Having dumbshit crafting or crafting that happens as you adventure is their way of saying "we know best," in a passive/aggressive manner.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Most crafters didn't go out and do all that hunting they would advertise that they needed certain resources and then set up a vender that would pay anyone that dropped off the requested material. My main char in SWG was a master scout/rifleman {read sniper} and I spent a lot of time getting materials for crafters. Personally I found the crafting dull. But this system had several advantages. The products the crafters made was really a lot better than looted gear and it wore out with use. The crafters gear was always in demand. But the real key was the interaction between the crafters, suppliers and customers. This interaction was one of the things that build the community in the game. And that community is one of the reasons the SWG vets are so bitter {still}, we miss it.
SWG was the only MMO I ever enjoyed crafting in. No other MMO comes close; they all feel like appendages to the main combat aspect of the game. They are usually level based and I find I out-level the gear I can make, or am in an area where the raw materials are no longer dropping, forcing me to go back to a lowbie area to face-roll mobs to take resource nodes I need to make gear I don't want, nor can I sell.
Bah... I'm rambling and ranting all at once.
More SWG crafting please.
Atleast they would keep playing, the alternative is the present, when players feel bored after a short time and quit.
Its the same old story "i played 4 years since vanilla and SUFFERED each day tring to raid, i am much happy now that i have beaten kel'thuzad with a pug" <quits soon after>.
Flame on!
I think I have a good rule of thumb that applies here:
If a simple bot or macro can do it, players shouldn't have to.
Crafting such as in Vanguard is so boring, so repeptitive and so much of a chore that I can't believe what kind of player would actually enjoy it. They had to go into lengths to prevent using macros and bots by switching the places of the buttons etc. and I'd say that is already a strong warning sign.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I'm sorry...I didn't mean the crafter did the killing for resources. I forgot to mention that my combat character did it.
When I asked around here for folks to recommend a great crafting system, they recommended Vanguard's system as being like SWG. I found no enjoyiment at all in it. I don't like any mini game system.
Personally I liked the crafting in EQ2. I liked the crafting in Vanguard somewhat more. But the best crafting I have seen in an MMO is Fallen Earth. Just about everything you pick up can be used in crafting and just about everything you can craft is potentially useful. And, you can queue a whole bunch of crafting, and then go adventure while it is being finished.
---------------------------
Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
Prefacing this with I was a huge resource holder in SWG.
1: Sure but even in a loot based game, crafters can make desireable things. Loot drops could be materials to forge giving interdependancy between crafters and dungeon runners for example. Crafting of vanity items. Etc.
2 I agree but different resource grades also have to give different stats or be easier to make or something.
3 I wish this was impossible. I do agree that lots of people want this but true crafters cringe at this as no one wants to buy their goods if everyone has an alt that can make the same things.
4 Depends on the system but yes I think item decay is a very good thing for an economy. Of course it does not have to be strict fire weapon, weapon does not work anymore. Eve for example has a decent economy because when a ship is destroyed some of the equipment mods on it are destroyed as well. But there is technically no decay (well, ammo maybe).
WoW style crafting should not even be called crafting. The best crafting in an MMO released in the last 5 years was FF14 crafting and even that had a myriad of problems associated with it.
I like FE crafting. I just found the game to be a ghost town.
"good" crafting systems comes down to the individuals opinion.
Example: I dont care one ounce how freaking detailed a crafting system is if the items are not usefull or I have to get a raid going in HOPES I get ONE crafting material to drop for an item I want to make.
Throwing grouping/raiding into the mix for crafting is done to make up for a WEAK game that requires a carrot on a stick to keep people playing...who the hell came up with the idea that to craft an item, you should have to go kill uber boss of ultra leet stomping for a .01% chance to get a scale of god guarding to drop?
give me a crafting system with 1000 items to craft, not just weapons/armor/potions, let me craft a mirror to hold in my hand, a broom...flowers, fireworks...and no, I shouldnt have to go gather 30 damn hides to craft a BOOT either....good crafting does not = being able to make a sword of melt your face off...I should have to quest for that, let me instead craft sword SKINS that I can put on whatever sword I have equiped to make it look better.
Making leet items does not = good crafting
Many items, large variety and usefull = good crafting
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I agree, the only good crafting systems are the ones that make useflu items. The button mashing I dont care about at all.
GW2 you made good items, so I think thats a good crafting system.