Maybe some of the moderators for this site should start looking through the posting history of some of it's older members and see who may make good member-moderators for the site. One's that post frequently with the least biased and trollish demenor (Most site/topic perdinent posting history. Members dedictaed to such a goal of ridding the garbage) and let them start erasing inflamatory posts, issuing warnings, and if a couple warnings are given let them be able to bump the issue up to the actual site moderators for possible banning. Take some of the weight off the website mods and put a tighter grip on the a-hats.
Of course yes, this could be abused...but that's why they really look at who they give such responsibility. Better than their current lack of moderatoin on a reasonable scale.
And yes....and honor system would be good. Maybe through that if the member is issued 3 warnings they get banned instantly for a given time, if not permenantly. I'm not sure how web access works myself...but would it be possible to ban an IP?
I like this, it is like a hybrid! Kinda like the League of legends report system with a community involvment/ time enhancer. Maybe take members that have proven they are loyal to help with weeding through the general populace. I stil think that iot should be pushed to a offical moderator no matter what though.
Want a fix? Go watch the movie Jay and Silent Bob strike back...wait for the end.
That is what it will take.
Force the "anon" out of the internet, make everything take your real life name, have your address and phone number tied to everything...then hire two guys to go around and beat the piss out of anyone that talks smack.
In other words, not going to happen, people are jerks in real life so there will be jerks online and the way to minimize it will require a massive change to the internet itself...and worse yet, then you have these whiney crybabies that moan and groan at people who voice a differing opinion and act like everyone should pretend to like everything or not speak...they are just as much a posion to the community as the rest.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I honestly believe the answer is real ID. Blizzard was very much on the right track in my mind. The only real concession would be screen name versus real life name but only to have that outlet that many want. Lock everyone to a single account to use across the internet as a hole. People would cut down on the majority of bullshit if there were actual real consequences for their actions. Would it stop all of it, most certainly not (no system can) but just as in the real world the vast majority of it would disapear.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Get a time machine and go back to the good old times when only real gamers were playing
Problem solved.
This generation of gamers is acting like cool but is completely the opossite, and so braindead.
edit: Reason you have these unwanted personalities is cause the games are getting more and more dumbed down and are so easy it's like inviting them here.
My sig says it all about the internet but as for games such as these the ideal solution, which is not always done, is to bring back the in game GM to keep the peace.
One of the biggest sources of friction I see in online communities is when we fail to seperate the community into indviduals - it's too much to keep track of hundreds of different voices in a conversation and at a certain point, our minds start simplifying the entire community into a small collection of abstract stereotypes and then start reacting to these fictional abstractions instead of the individuals we are talking to. This leads to lashing out a person B for something person A did/said and a chain reaction of bad feelings ensues.
Subtract stars for use of buzz words and phrases. Words like -
amazing
on rails
clunky
gear treadmill
no-lifers
grinder
etc..
This will make people expand on ther thoughts and be more decriptive in there likes and criticisms.
Is this guy a bot? I have no idea what he is saying?
I think the person is talking about forum community, with a buzzword catcher that reduces community ranking based on use of cliche terms.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
One possible game mechanic that could assist would be an up / down ranking of a player's reputation (not just the character, but rather all characters on the account). Have the up / down ranking weighted to the ranking player's own reputation so that their ranking of others is diminished (or even ignored) if they have poor reputation. From there create a configuration option "auto ignore players with ranking below this threshold (with a numeric pulldown)".
/snip
I expect this would just create another mechanic for some really horrible griefing. At least in open world pvp you can fight back. How do you fight back against a rep trashing griefing campaign?
Citadel of Sorcery has an interesting idea, when you block a player they not only don't show up on your chat channel, they literally get totally blocked from your sight in the game. Enough folks do that to an ass hat and they'll soon get they message to behave or be alone. Novel concept, hope they can bring their vision to light.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by jimdandy26 I honestly believe the answer is real ID. Blizzard was very much on the right track in my mind. The only real concession would be screen name versus real life name but only to have that outlet that many want. Lock everyone to a single account to use across the internet as a hole. People would cut down on the majority of bullshit if there were actual real consequences for their actions. Would it stop all of it, most certainly not (no system can) but just as in the real world the vast majority of it would disapear.
No, Real ID is not the answer. Real ID is a serious breach of privacy and leaves you more suspectible to hackers and worse. I don't need people with severe issues or psychological problems looking me up online when they get angry about something I did in game (which more often than not is an issue with them not me, as I try to play as nice as possible in game). Because my first and last name is one a kind it's fairly easy to look up information on me if you have my full name, and that makes a hacker, sociopath, or unstable person with a grudge having that sort of information is not a good thing. It's bad enough when you can get harassed in game by someone and eventually either get them banned or having a GM make them stop, but if they have enough information about you personally there is nothing stopping them from doing this is real life either.
Not to mention if they manage to take control of your account they could potentially tarnish your reputation in real life. It's not impossible for a hacker to get a hold of your account through no fault of your own. Blizzard who uses the real ID system for example.
There is a VERY simple solution to this however people will never agree to it...
You need to take the Anonymity out of it. People would have to use ther real names (that they used for the credit card to be used in game.
This creates accountability... You are now personally and directly responsible for your own actions and this will create a natural civility. Now I don't mean you characters name is your real name but every character would have a searchable profile with the users REAL name in it.
Too many people hide behind the wall of anonymity and use this shroud as a means to be sociopathic and wreckless to anyone around them...
You wouldn't walk down the street calling people assholes and curse out their mothers because you would probably end up with a broken jaw or worse.
I would almost guarantee that gaming communities would magically become a much better place overnight if something like this was put in and enforced.
You can join or create any guild with any standards of behavior that align with your own
You can ignore or report people who go beyond the games policy
Then again I have a thick skin. I dont run to the game police to solve my problems. If someone is being a dillhole to me i go and kill them in game. over, and over, and over, and over.
If its a game I cannot kill them in due to mechanics I put them on ignore and never have a second thought about them.
The more you try to shove politically correct horsepoop into everyones face, the more peopel will get sick of it and fight back by being the biggest d-bags they can be.
If you are so offended by people being assholes do something about the real life versions. Go picket the Westboro baptist church. Do something that has real life meaning. Stop trying to turn every video game community into a pre-k class where everyone has to share and play nice and hold hands or else its the time out naughty chair.
Provide more ways for the playerbase to segregate into smaller, like-minded communities. I know the whole politically correct thing is a utopian lovefest of tolerance and respect, but if we sit that treehugging crap aside and look at things realistically, the more a playerbase is allowed to divide itself into smaller groups of people with related wants/interests the less prevalant trolling, antagonism and conflict is.
League of Legends is a perfect example. There are few separate channels. Everyone of every background, playstyle, age, skill level, etc is all mashed into the same chat channels. Aside from the toxic influence of anonimity you also have a diverse array of all levels of tactless socially stunted morons who can't be educated on how to act in mixed company because for the past twenty years, everyone told them they special snowflakes... oh, and they have 'freedom of speach." And if you want to make LoL look peachy keen, check out SMITE, where there's even less separation and in the level 1-6 range, it's hard to find a match where someone isn't spewing personal attacks because some new player didn't telepathically know to do what that dude was thinking is the optimal strategy.
Sex, politics and religion are three things you don't bring up in mixed company. The standard internet responses are:
I shouldn't have to hide who I am or how I feel about things.
If they can't handle it they can put me on ignore.
The tactless jackasses that feel those are acceptable answers are the problem, not the guy that simply reacted to the controversial, and probably not even game related, garbage that got brought up.
However, if a game offers places that groups can readily access as meeting places, custom chat channels, channels for different languages, etc then a lot of the problems are solved.
See, if the LGBT crowd is having a conversation about same sex marriage in local, they're going to get responses from those that might have a problem with it or those that might jsut want to troll the crap out of them. If they had a channel or physical location in game where they can meet and talk, much more civil discourse occurs. The same with religion, politics parenting, current events, war/military, etc.
When it's one local/global pile-on, it's harder to enforce civility. However, if you have a [special interest] channel and or location, it's easier to punt offenders and enforce some level of civility because the antagonist has to make a point to join or travel to that channel or location.
For the past ten years, MMOs have become more of a massive heap of everything in one channel. It's IRC hell without a damn @op or bot in sight to clean it up. I honestly think most devs wouldn't even know where to begin to put social tools back into MMOs, let alone actually start doing it, especially whn they always have the 'you can put them on ignore' cop out readily at hand.
The way to create game communities from a game's playerbase, is to allow people to function like people and not some utopian ideal of the way people should act if Ghandi and John Lennon redesigned the universe.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There is a VERY simple solution to this however people will never agree to it...
You need to take the Anonymity out of it. People would have to use ther real names (that they used for the credit card to be used in game.
This creates accountability... You are now personally and directly responsible for your own actions and this will create a natural civility. Now I don't mean you characters name is your real name but every character would have a searchable profile with the users REAL name in it.
Too many people hide behind the wall of anonymity and use this shroud as a means to be sociopathic and wreckless to anyone around them...
You wouldn't walk down the street calling people assholes and curse out their mothers because you would probably end up with a broken jaw or worse.
I would almost guarantee that gaming communities would magically become a much better place overnight if something like this was put in and enforced.
I already replied to a post above stating the problems of a Real ID system. I think the notion that it would magically create a decent community is absolutely absurd, especially since it is used in Blizzard games and these games aren't exactly known for stellar communities (in fact quite the opposite). You may not have a wall of anonymity, but probability also means that a person you are griefing likely won't ever deal with you in real life (much less recognize you) so you could still troll/grief/harass away, and having a person's real name gives TRUE sociopaths much more leverage to cause harassment or worse to you that could impact your real life due to the lack of anonymity.
Look at threats and harassment cases of certain celebrities, politicians, radio hosts, and bloggers. A lack of anonymity opens you open to all kinds of harassment. Also it's not as if I can't use make an account under the guise of someone elses name and harm their reputation.
I has much better in game experiences in games where there was forced grouping. If you were a dick in ff11 for example eventually you would find yourself without a group and when you did find a group it would be a bad one. Community exclusion of something desireable tends to bring out some decency in people.
In games where the skill is measured in terms of personal achievement and the majority of the game is spent 1v1ing I see the worst communities. Fighting games tend to have some of the worst communities.
One possible game mechanic that could assist would be an up / down ranking of a player's reputation (not just the character, but rather all characters on the account). Have the up / down ranking weighted to the ranking player's own reputation so that their ranking of others is diminished (or even ignored) if they have poor reputation. From there create a configuration option "auto ignore players with ranking below this threshold (with a numeric pulldown)".
/snip
I expect this would just create another mechanic for some really horrible griefing. At least in open world pvp you can fight back. How do you fight back against a rep trashing griefing campaign?
Exactly. That's one of the reasons there's no 'dislike' on Facebook and why YouTube has been considering removing thumbs down.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There is a VERY simple solution to this however people will never agree to it...
You need to take the Anonymity out of it. People would have to use ther real names (that they used for the credit card to be used in game.
This creates accountability... You are now personally and directly responsible for your own actions and this will create a natural civility. Now I don't mean you characters name is your real name but every character would have a searchable profile with the users REAL name in it.
Too many people hide behind the wall of anonymity and use this shroud as a means to be sociopathic and wreckless to anyone around them...
You wouldn't walk down the street calling people assholes and curse out their mothers because you would probably end up with a broken jaw or worse.
I would almost guarantee that gaming communities would magically become a much better place overnight if something like this was put in and enforced.
I already replied to a post above stating the problems of a Real ID system. I think the notion that it would magically create a decent community is absolutely absurd, especially since it is used in Blizzard games and these games aren't exactly known for stellar communities (in fact quite the opposite). You may not have a wall of anonymity, but probability also means that a person you are griefing likely won't ever deal with you in real life (much less recognize you) so you could still troll/grief/harass away, and having a person's real name gives TRUE sociopaths much more leverage to cause harassment or worse to you that could impact your real life due to the lack of anonymity.
Look at threats and harassment cases of certain celebrities, politicians, radio hosts, and bloggers. A lack of anonymity opens you open to all kinds of harassment. Also it's not as if I can't use make an account under the guise of someone elses name and harm their reputation.
Blizzards system is optional or only used with friends... not really sure of the specifics.
Currently there is no consequence, no accountability. Perhaps it was naieve of me to state magically change... there is still cyberbullying in Facebook and other social platforms where real names are involved... why not in gaming though...
The only other solution? Bans like LoL, force the community to be civil by investigating and banning people that have enough "red flags" against them.
Community tribunal...
As a complete side note develops that create games with consrquence like Age of Wushu (characters Jailed, bounty, etc) are far more civil for an open PvP game that say Darkfall where the community is just plain vile elitists.
Comments
You cannot regulate the internet, the moment you try, you will lose.
Same goes for the gaming community, that's the strength of it.
Trolls come in all forms, some are pure evil, others smile saying they are here to help. Regardless, you can't control either, only be entertained.
I like this, it is like a hybrid! Kinda like the League of legends report system with a community involvment/ time enhancer. Maybe take members that have proven they are loyal to help with weeding through the general populace. I stil think that iot should be pushed to a offical moderator no matter what though.
No regulation, just improving! We are healing not incriminating!
Want a fix? Go watch the movie Jay and Silent Bob strike back...wait for the end.
That is what it will take.
Force the "anon" out of the internet, make everything take your real life name, have your address and phone number tied to everything...then hire two guys to go around and beat the piss out of anyone that talks smack.
In other words, not going to happen, people are jerks in real life so there will be jerks online and the way to minimize it will require a massive change to the internet itself...and worse yet, then you have these whiney crybabies that moan and groan at people who voice a differing opinion and act like everyone should pretend to like everything or not speak...they are just as much a posion to the community as the rest.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Some times things can't be healed and just need to be put down.
if you attack an amoebea, it just eats you.
Leave it alone, and it eventually evolves.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Subtract stars for use of buzz words and phrases. Words like -
amazing
on rails
clunky
gear treadmill
no-lifers
grinder
etc..
This will make people expand on ther thoughts and be more decriptive in there likes and criticisms.
Get a time machine and go back to the good old times when only real gamers were playing
Problem solved.
This generation of gamers is acting like cool but is completely the opossite, and so braindead.
edit: Reason you have these unwanted personalities is cause the games are getting more and more dumbed down and are so easy it's like inviting them here.
My sig says it all about the internet but as for games such as these the ideal solution, which is not always done, is to bring back the in game GM to keep the peace.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Is this guy a bot? I have no idea what he is saying?
One of the biggest sources of friction I see in online communities is when we fail to seperate the community into indviduals - it's too much to keep track of hundreds of different voices in a conversation and at a certain point, our minds start simplifying the entire community into a small collection of abstract stereotypes and then start reacting to these fictional abstractions instead of the individuals we are talking to. This leads to lashing out a person B for something person A did/said and a chain reaction of bad feelings ensues.
I think the person is talking about forum community, with a buzzword catcher that reduces community ranking based on use of cliche terms.
That's not nice... I was speaking of the mmorpg.com community in specifically. geez not cool at all.
I expect this would just create another mechanic for some really horrible griefing. At least in open world pvp you can fight back. How do you fight back against a rep trashing griefing campaign?
---------------------------
Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No, Real ID is not the answer. Real ID is a serious breach of privacy and leaves you more suspectible to hackers and worse. I don't need people with severe issues or psychological problems looking me up online when they get angry about something I did in game (which more often than not is an issue with them not me, as I try to play as nice as possible in game). Because my first and last name is one a kind it's fairly easy to look up information on me if you have my full name, and that makes a hacker, sociopath, or unstable person with a grudge having that sort of information is not a good thing. It's bad enough when you can get harassed in game by someone and eventually either get them banned or having a GM make them stop, but if they have enough information about you personally there is nothing stopping them from doing this is real life either.
Not to mention if they manage to take control of your account they could potentially tarnish your reputation in real life. It's not impossible for a hacker to get a hold of your account through no fault of your own. Blizzard who uses the real ID system for example.
There is a VERY simple solution to this however people will never agree to it...
You need to take the Anonymity out of it. People would have to use ther real names (that they used for the credit card to be used in game.
This creates accountability... You are now personally and directly responsible for your own actions and this will create a natural civility. Now I don't mean you characters name is your real name but every character would have a searchable profile with the users REAL name in it.
Too many people hide behind the wall of anonymity and use this shroud as a means to be sociopathic and wreckless to anyone around them...
You wouldn't walk down the street calling people assholes and curse out their mothers because you would probably end up with a broken jaw or worse.
I would almost guarantee that gaming communities would magically become a much better place overnight if something like this was put in and enforced.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
I don't view it as broken.
MMO communities are working as intended.
You can join or create any guild with any standards of behavior that align with your own
You can ignore or report people who go beyond the games policy
Then again I have a thick skin. I dont run to the game police to solve my problems. If someone is being a dillhole to me i go and kill them in game. over, and over, and over, and over.
If its a game I cannot kill them in due to mechanics I put them on ignore and never have a second thought about them.
The more you try to shove politically correct horsepoop into everyones face, the more peopel will get sick of it and fight back by being the biggest d-bags they can be.
If you are so offended by people being assholes do something about the real life versions. Go picket the Westboro baptist church. Do something that has real life meaning. Stop trying to turn every video game community into a pre-k class where everyone has to share and play nice and hold hands or else its the time out naughty chair.
Provide more ways for the playerbase to segregate into smaller, like-minded communities. I know the whole politically correct thing is a utopian lovefest of tolerance and respect, but if we sit that treehugging crap aside and look at things realistically, the more a playerbase is allowed to divide itself into smaller groups of people with related wants/interests the less prevalant trolling, antagonism and conflict is.
League of Legends is a perfect example. There are few separate channels. Everyone of every background, playstyle, age, skill level, etc is all mashed into the same chat channels. Aside from the toxic influence of anonimity you also have a diverse array of all levels of tactless socially stunted morons who can't be educated on how to act in mixed company because for the past twenty years, everyone told them they special snowflakes... oh, and they have 'freedom of speach." And if you want to make LoL look peachy keen, check out SMITE, where there's even less separation and in the level 1-6 range, it's hard to find a match where someone isn't spewing personal attacks because some new player didn't telepathically know to do what that dude was thinking is the optimal strategy.
Sex, politics and religion are three things you don't bring up in mixed company. The standard internet responses are:
The tactless jackasses that feel those are acceptable answers are the problem, not the guy that simply reacted to the controversial, and probably not even game related, garbage that got brought up.
However, if a game offers places that groups can readily access as meeting places, custom chat channels, channels for different languages, etc then a lot of the problems are solved.
See, if the LGBT crowd is having a conversation about same sex marriage in local, they're going to get responses from those that might have a problem with it or those that might jsut want to troll the crap out of them. If they had a channel or physical location in game where they can meet and talk, much more civil discourse occurs. The same with religion, politics parenting, current events, war/military, etc.
When it's one local/global pile-on, it's harder to enforce civility. However, if you have a [special interest] channel and or location, it's easier to punt offenders and enforce some level of civility because the antagonist has to make a point to join or travel to that channel or location.
For the past ten years, MMOs have become more of a massive heap of everything in one channel. It's IRC hell without a damn @op or bot in sight to clean it up. I honestly think most devs wouldn't even know where to begin to put social tools back into MMOs, let alone actually start doing it, especially whn they always have the 'you can put them on ignore' cop out readily at hand.
The way to create game communities from a game's playerbase, is to allow people to function like people and not some utopian ideal of the way people should act if Ghandi and John Lennon redesigned the universe.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I already replied to a post above stating the problems of a Real ID system. I think the notion that it would magically create a decent community is absolutely absurd, especially since it is used in Blizzard games and these games aren't exactly known for stellar communities (in fact quite the opposite). You may not have a wall of anonymity, but probability also means that a person you are griefing likely won't ever deal with you in real life (much less recognize you) so you could still troll/grief/harass away, and having a person's real name gives TRUE sociopaths much more leverage to cause harassment or worse to you that could impact your real life due to the lack of anonymity.
Look at threats and harassment cases of certain celebrities, politicians, radio hosts, and bloggers. A lack of anonymity opens you open to all kinds of harassment. Also it's not as if I can't use make an account under the guise of someone elses name and harm their reputation.
I has much better in game experiences in games where there was forced grouping. If you were a dick in ff11 for example eventually you would find yourself without a group and when you did find a group it would be a bad one. Community exclusion of something desireable tends to bring out some decency in people.
In games where the skill is measured in terms of personal achievement and the majority of the game is spent 1v1ing I see the worst communities. Fighting games tend to have some of the worst communities.
Exactly. That's one of the reasons there's no 'dislike' on Facebook and why YouTube has been considering removing thumbs down.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Blizzards system is optional or only used with friends... not really sure of the specifics.
Currently there is no consequence, no accountability. Perhaps it was naieve of me to state magically change... there is still cyberbullying in Facebook and other social platforms where real names are involved... why not in gaming though...
The only other solution? Bans like LoL, force the community to be civil by investigating and banning people that have enough "red flags" against them.
Community tribunal...
As a complete side note develops that create games with consrquence like Age of Wushu (characters Jailed, bounty, etc) are far more civil for an open PvP game that say Darkfall where the community is just plain vile elitists.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...