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Poll: Which payment model is ideal for ESO?

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Comments

  • RemyiRemyi Red Wing, MNMember Posts: 15 Uncommon

    B2P, like Guild Wars, in my opinion. Look at the subscription based mmo games that have followed WoW. Most have turned to F2P, or closed their doors, within 1-2 years max. I really don't think this game will be any different with a subscription model. After a couple months, content becomes boring, and new content doesn't rapidly come out. People start feeling that the game is dull, and they decide to go back to an already well established and content rich WoW. This happens much faster if the game is full of bugs at release.

    Then look at Guild Wars 2. Not only did they have a solid launch, but they are still selling tons of copies of the game. If I get bored of Guild Wars 2, I can just take a break for awhile without feeling like my money is being wasted. If I quit a subscription based game, I'm very unlikely to resubscribe, because I can't test the game to see if it's fun again. My money isn't tight, and I'm 28 years old, so that isn't the problem. I just don't like throwing my money towards things that aren't worth it.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHMember Posts: 3,090 Uncommon

    Buy to Play with a cosmetic cash shop. One listen to Jack Emmert at the Gen Con 2012 D&D Digital, part 2 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5QFqtpWO1s&feature=player_detailpage Starts around the 4:40 mark talking of F2P and why certain games fail because of B2P and how they could have been better as a F2P. He makes perfect sense. He also talks how F2P allows gamers who can afford it the luxury of being able to purchase "wants" in the game, he expands upon this in the context of Comic Books. He says: As a Fan I can easily spend $500 a month in comic book paraphernalia but not because he needs to, but because he wants too. If you enjoy the game, there will be avenues for you to spend money. In essence only a very small percentage of player base will use the cash shops but still the company will be profitable.

    This is essence is why Cash Shops with cosmetics are the best source of revenue. First you bring in more players (which is a fact) and second you allow fans to buy what they want from a cash shop. The Sparkly Ponies in WoW are a perfect example, IMO WoW would make a ton more money if they went F2P, and institute a cash shop with cosmetics. It’s working wonderfully for GW2 and as long as the game is good enough it will work for ESO. Subs are dying and for good reason, they're dinosaurs.

    Plus you need to realize that the vast majority of gamers do not play MMO's because of the stigma of being subscription based, if you want to draw more players in then you need to be F2P or B2P from the ground up? If you start out sub based, you’ve already lost a very high percentage of potential player base because the stigma of going F2P after being subscription based means the game failed, whereas starting off as F2P or B2P is more of a sign of being "with the times".

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • ValentinaValentina Los Angeles, CAMember Posts: 1,748 Uncommon
    B2P+cash shop for cosmetic armor and things like that.
  • DesolousDesolous San Diego, CAMember Posts: 12

    Have to say B2P with a cosmetic only cash shop (mounts, skin etc.)

    They can make alot of money with just services like name change, sex change and so on.

    Blizzard makes millions just on customer services. like their 25 dollar mounts and 15 dollar companions.

     

    Like it or not all MMOs will have Microtransactions. So I say let me buy the game to show support and pay for the services when i need it..

     

    Just my two cents.

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  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember Posts: 5,736 Uncommon
    no cash shop. any model they want w/o a CS.

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  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulMember Posts: 670
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    P2P Subscription. It's the best way to avoid 75% of MMO asshats.

    Have you played wow?

    This is the first thing I thought. 

    I'm playing LOTRO and Vanguard, which are both f2p, but I have found the community in both games great. Far better for me than WoW, which is b2p. 

     

    Regarding OPs question, I really don't think we know enough about the game to decide on what will be most profitable for them. I am wary of cash shops in games with pvp. They can be done well, so I think most new games will be b2p (like TSW) or f2p with an option to sub (hopefully, like Vanguard). But like I said, we need more info to make a decision from the business point of view.

  • TokkenTokken Portland, ORMember Posts: 1,351 Uncommon
    sub all the way!
    Warriors are like steel, when you lose your temper you lose your worth.
  • NitthNitth AustraliaMember Posts: 3,903 Uncommon


    Originally posted by Remyi
    B2P, like Guild Wars, in my opinion. Look at the subscription based mmo games that have followed WoW. Most have turned to F2P, or closed their doors, within 1-2 years max.

    Considering there is only like 2 b2p games on the market....What happens when b2p games start going south?

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • RemyiRemyi Red Wing, MNMember Posts: 15 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth
      Originally posted by Remyi
    B2P, like Guild Wars, in my opinion. Look at the subscription based mmo games that have followed WoW. Most have turned to F2P, or closed their doors, within 1-2 years max.

     

    Considering there is only like 2 b2p games on the market....What happens when b2p games start going south?

    They either improve the game, offer incentive to keep playing, or take their profit/loss and move on. Hell, even the original Guild Wars has a decent player base still. That's the bonus to the model. You can take a break for a month, and jump right back in. Not that you should be playing games in this situation, but you are also able to keep playing if you lose your job for whatever reason. Also, the model provides cheaper server costs for them. Defiance is going with the B2P model as well.

    My personal decision is to never play another subscription based MMORPG. I have plenty of stuff on my inactive WoW account, if I want to go that route. I would consider paying a subscription fee for some other form of MMO, like a FPS, if it struck my interest. This is why I really hope they don't head that direction. I really love the lore of The Elder Scrolls, and the game looks really interesting to me.. but I don't need yet another failed subscription based MMORPG that sits on my shelf unused.

  • Se7enSinsSe7enSins West Covina, CAMember Posts: 10 Uncommon

    B2P

     

    Recently released MMOs (TERA, TSW) that started out as P2P ended up either F2P or B2P. SWTOR also went F2P in what, 6 months?

    The only MMO that comes to mind that has yet to fail as a P2P game other than WoW is Rift.

     

    Top that with GW2's success with the B2P model I doubt devs would want to test the waters with P2P now a days.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember Posts: 8,842 Rare

    No box price, 9$ sub,. with F2P with cash shop option.

     

    Box prices scare the shit out of after GW2, RIFT, and Pandaland.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYMember Posts: 3,677 Uncommon

    B2P, TSW and GW2 kinda have me spoiled now (even though I had a lifetime sub to TSW already) I dont wanna go back to paying subs ever again!

    Also I enjoy having more than one MMO at a time now. Subs make me feel like I have to be too commited to one game.

    image
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYMember Posts: 3,677 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Se7enSins
    B2P   Recently released MMOs (TERA, TSW) that started out as P2P ended up either F2P or B2P. SWTOR also went F2P in what, 6 months? The only MMO that comes to mind that has yet to fail as a P2P game other than WoW is Rift.   Top that with GW2's success with the B2P model I doubt devs would want to test the waters with P2P now a days.

    Actually,

     

    Ultima Online

    Asheron's Call

    Eve

    Dark Age of Camelot

    NexusTK

    Warhammer

        All still require subscriptions to play. I'm sure there are more i'm missing.

    image
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHMember Posts: 5,736 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Se7enSins
    B2P   Recently released MMOs (TERA, TSW) that started out as P2P ended up either F2P or B2P. SWTOR also went F2P in what, 6 months? The only MMO that comes to mind that has yet to fail as a P2P game other than WoW is Rift.   Top that with GW2's success with the B2P model I doubt devs would want to test the waters with P2P now a days.

    Actually,

     

    Ultima Online

    Asheron's Call

    Eve

    Dark Age of Camelot

    NexusTK

    Warhammer

        All still require subscriptions to play. I'm sure there are more i'm missing.

    what he said.

     

    although one can argue that EVE can be played for free. In a weird and plain bizzare move, eve lets you buy your subscription with in-game currency.

     

    playing the game in orer to play the game ? YES PLS.

    image

  • boxsndboxsnd Kraxton, ARMember Posts: 438 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Se7enSins
    B2P   Recently released MMOs (TERA, TSW) that started out as P2P ended up either F2P or B2P. SWTOR also went F2P in what, 6 months? The only MMO that comes to mind that has yet to fail as a P2P game other than WoW is Rift.   Top that with GW2's success with the B2P model I doubt devs would want to test the waters with P2P now a days.

    Actually,

     

    Ultima Online

    Asheron's Call

    Eve

    Dark Age of Camelot

    NexusTK

    Warhammer

        All still require subscriptions to play. I'm sure there are more i'm missing.

    DAoC and warhammer are on life support though. Also daoc came out in 2001 and war is considered a failure. No idea about the others.

    DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  • I'm leaning towards the GW2 model. Even though the game still lost tonnes of players, the barrier for returning to the game is much lower, which means the people you lose come back to check it out again when there's a new update. With SWTOR, when I started getting bored, I just quit and never looked back because if I wanted to do so I had to pay up with at least a month's sub (I know it's F2P -now- but it wasn't back then).

    Same thing with WoW - I only seem to return when there's a new big expansion, then quit again a little while after hitting the cap.

    But it also means the cash shop must be attractive enough that they actually make enough money from it. I don't know if that's the case with GW2 or not, but it doesn't look like they're shutting the down the game to me.

  • SeariasSearias Edmonton, ABMember Posts: 719 Uncommon
    I voted for P2P, because I want the developers to spend all their time developing the game than waste time on cash shops. Anyways, why does it matter what kind of business model the company choose to go with? I mean if ESO turns out to be a  great game why would it matter if it's p2p, b2p or f2p? Wouldn't you just play it because it's a good game?

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  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterMember Posts: 2,042 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fearum
    How would boxing gloves and baseball hats fit into TES lore from the cash shop. How could the lore master add in lore about the oh so wonderful cash shop guild in the building next to the fighters guild.

    This is what scares me about cash shops. Silly cosmetic items.

    And whats with all the vanity items in cash shops? The only way to get money out of this generation of gamers is vanity items?

    If ESO isn't P2P, I hope it's B2P with no cash shop.

    image
  • ragz45ragz45 Member Posts: 777 Uncommon

    I have no objection to cash shops in MMO's as long as there is no way to convert the items/coin bought in the cash shop to in game currancy.  IE  All items are bound, and you can't convert RL money to in game cash (ala GW2)

    I know many people object to cash shops, but I look at it as an additional funding sounce for games to create more content.  As long as it follows the rules I specified above.

  • NildenNilden Canada, NBMember Posts: 1,796 Rare
    The payment model doesn't matter to me at all. I will be happy to pay a subscription for a good game that I want to play. If the game sucks I don't care if it's free I'm still not going to play it.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer


  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHMember Posts: 3,090 Uncommon
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Se7enSins
    B2P   Recently released MMOs (TERA, TSW) that started out as P2P ended up either F2P or B2P. SWTOR also went F2P in what, 6 months? The only MMO that comes to mind that has yet to fail as a P2P game other than WoW is Rift.   Top that with GW2's success with the B2P model I doubt devs would want to test the waters with P2P now a days.

    Actually,

     

    Ultima Online

    Asheron's Call

    Eve

    Dark Age of Camelot

    NexusTK

    Warhammer

        All still require subscriptions to play. I'm sure there are more i'm missing.

    DAoC and warhammer are on life support though. Also daoc came out in 2001 and war is considered a failure. No idea about the others.

    Asherons Call has like 900 players and even though its my favorite game of all time it really needs to go F2P.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHMember Posts: 3,090 Uncommon
    Originally posted by ragz45
    I have no objection to cash shops in MMO's as long as there is no way to convert the items/coin bought in the cash shop to in game currancy.  IE  All items are bound, and you can't convert RL money to in game cash (ala GW2) I know many people object to cash shops, but I look at it as an additional funding sounce for games to create more content.  As long as it follows the rules I specified above.

    Why does it bother you that someone can convert say gems to gold?  As an example I have spent over $770.00 in GW2 and converted msot of it to gold.  Tell me what advatage did I gane from this?  Other then it allowed me to level 3 additional characters to leve lcap and equip them with craftable exotic gear to compete in WvW and PvE.  Did I magically aquire more skill?  More abilities?  More power?  Nope all it did was allow me to convert my real life time into game currency to get to the same stage as someone who played the normal way.  I don't regret my actions one bit either because in an archaic game like WoW it would take me years to level each of every class to the level cap.  All I did was convert time to gold, same as if I played.  To me thats the beauty of a cash shop. 

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • NitthNitth AustraliaMember Posts: 3,903 Uncommon


    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by ragz45 I have no objection to cash shops in MMO's as long as there is no way to convert the items/coin bought in the cash shop to in game currancy.  IE  All items are bound, and you can't convert RL money to in game cash (ala GW2) I know many people object to cash shops, but I look at it as an additional funding sounce for games to create more content.  As long as it follows the rules I specified above.
    Why does it bother you that someone can convert say gems to gold?  As an example I have spent over $770.00 in GW2 and converted msot of it to gold.  Tell me what advatage did I gane from this?  Other then it allowed me to level 3 additional characters to leve lcap and equip them with craftable exotic gear to compete in WvW and PvE.  Did I magically aquire more skill?  More abilities?  More power?  Nope all it did was allow me to convert my real life time into game currency to get to the same stage as someone who played the normal way.  I don't regret my actions one bit either because in an archaic game like WoW it would take me years to level each of every class to the level cap.  All I did was convert time to gold, same as if I played.  To me thats the beauty of a cash shop. 
    You have 3 characters with good gear as oposed to the guy thats on a minimum wage and works his ass of real time?

    Real life savings should have any account in video games.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember Posts: 3,826 Rare
    They should do F2P and sub that way people who want to sub can do so.
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  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisMember Posts: 1,873
    P2P for me. But it has to be worth it, something we will see very soon.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

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