Once again, its mostly about the money involved. When people lose sight of their own dreams and plans for their games, thats sadly all that remains. Thats one of the things that make EA and other such so dangerous. At this stage of the game, any studio who would pick EA or NCsoft as a publisher, is ignorant and/or desperate. Neither of which bode well for their game or players.
Well ea were noticeably absent from the thq auction. So hopefully they've run out of money and cant wreck anymore studios. I was worried they were going to buy up relic for their good name and have numerous studios called "relic wolverhampton" or whatever.
lol ea is doing descent and far from having no funds, they still are right below blizzard, you guys can wish EA away all you like, people have been for 10 years now and they still publish games and people still buy them obviously. I am getting Simcity, already pre-ordered along with a few friends , the constant online thing has a group of people in a shit storm atm, however for many I mean many "we don't care". We play games to have fun, if they have a game that looks fun, I will play it. Warhammer "looked" Fun, it wasn't fun and the only reason I can even make a comment on that game is for being a huge fan of daoc before MJ ruined the bloddy thing with dumbass expansions and more.
He NEVER listened to the community, but the funny thing is, the rest of his team did, Yes Mark, I really have a thing against you as a developer.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Originally posted by chaintm lol ea is doing descent and far from having no funds, they still are right below blizzard, you guys can wish EA away all you like, people have been for 10 years now and they still publish games and people still buy them obviously.
Their stock is lower than it has been in a long LONG time. They aren't doing well.
sounds to me like you are just bitter and complaining not knowing really what happened with mythic. TOA did not Ruin DAOC like some of the bitter people here like to say. Yes people quit over it and yes people were mad but mythic changed how artifacts were leveled and made the master level raids much easier with new frontiers. People left DAOC for wow and EQ2 when they released. Hell even shadowbane took a chunk of DAOC population. People do not play the same game daily forever no matter if it is great or just okay. People have been hoping around games since eq and uo its not something new to the genre. I played them all as well but still held a strong love for DAOC. Warhammer was terrible yes but you need to put blame on denton and hickman. If you tell people here to read old articles than you know that it was hickman and denton that killed warhammer online for many people. Also war had plenty of subs at release and most didnt just leave either. Most left after the constant class imbalances like brightwizards that Adam Gersowitz(who know works for Trion) continued to make stronger and not address the glaring issues with them.
Nothing like melting a entire pug with 2 bright wizards a couple of pocket healers and a tank to shield wall a choke point. I was there from beta to 2010 and i remember the boards and all the crying over BWs.
I would be playing Warhammer Online today if it went F2P. It is the best PvP experience out for myself. I don't think they made a terrible game, I think that they made the wrong moves after launch and it was impossible to come back from. They fixed so many things, but most people don't look twice. The only thing that gets a second look in the MMO world is when a game changes buisness models.
Mark, you probably don't remember me (using this same name), but you launched into a personnal and scathing attack on me in your forums when I pointed out that DAoC was going to lose subs because you said the world was going to be zoned, and many others were agreeing. Then a month later you were talking about your new "bubble" techology to remove zones.
But I don't hold grudges. Just wanted to say that DAoC was one of the better Themepark games, and some aspects of it were very well done. If it hadn't been Themepark and force marched me past zones I liked very much, I would have considered it one of the great games.
The PvP system was a good one, the best I've seen for a game that isn't "open world". Even in a Sandbox game, it's a solid option to control the brutal outcome of ganksquads such as UO had. Just not the best option, IMO.
Your customer service was the best I've seen in all of MMOdom. Both in-game as well as on the boards, you guys had this nailed!
The bigges shame was the Themeparkiness, the zoning of content. You guys had a great world, and I didn't want to be forced to move on from many areas. Would much rather have done that by choice, when I wanted to, and return to a "home zone", if you will. Of course, that would mean alternate game play to keep things interesting while staying put in an area. I really wished DAoC had done that. The lore was a fantastic choice, and in this it could have been more developed to accomodate it. I'm sure I'm ot the only player that spent a lot of time trying to figure out meaning to the runes, looking for deeper mysteries in the game.
From what it sounds like, you seem to be in a good place. Congrats, and best wishes. Maybe all of the past challenges has done some good, eh?
lmao sorry but if you dont hold grudges you would of never of even brought this up in this froum at all. Well at least you try to redeem your post by wishing him well. lol could not resist.
Great interview. Really puts a lot of the debate to rest on Mark's departure from EA/Mythic. I was a pretty big critic of Warhammer when it launched as were many others. But i'm just a random forumgoer on the interwebs. It must have been a living hell what Mark had to put up with to ensure that ROI accured, while still trying to make a quality product.
Reminds you again how messy things get whenever people do business with EA.
you can dig all you want into it, it was jacob that said "sounds awsome" that , let mytic be sold (dont blame him on that one I would have too) concepted and wasted money on a crappy mmo idea that never seen the light of day and the nail in the coffin in expansion and "doing it his way". Be the blind fan boy all you want, I thought daoc was the best game ever made before the expansion even mark admitted to that mistake yet you will back up the fact it wasn't that bad. Keep dreaming about the mark you want, when you don't listen to your community your game will fail period.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Mark, you probably don't remember me (using this same name), but you launched into a personnal and scathing attack on me in your forums when I pointed out that DAoC was going to lose subs because you said the world was going to be zoned, and many others were agreeing. Then a month later you were talking about your new "bubble" techology to remove zones.
But I don't hold grudges. Just wanted to say that DAoC was one of the better Themepark games, and some aspects of it were very well done. If it hadn't been Themepark and force marched me past zones I liked very much, I would have considered it one of the great games.
The PvP system was a good one, the best I've seen for a game that isn't "open world". Even in a Sandbox game, it's a solid option to control the brutal outcome of ganksquads such as UO had. Just not the best option, IMO.
Your customer service was the best I've seen in all of MMOdom. Both in-game as well as on the boards, you guys had this nailed!
The bigges shame was the Themeparkiness, the zoning of content. You guys had a great world, and I didn't want to be forced to move on from many areas. Would much rather have done that by choice, when I wanted to, and return to a "home zone", if you will. Of course, that would mean alternate game play to keep things interesting while staying put in an area. I really wished DAoC had done that. The lore was a fantastic choice, and in this it could have been more developed to accomodate it. I'm sure I'm ot the only player that spent a lot of time trying to figure out meaning to the runes, looking for deeper mysteries in the game.
From what it sounds like, you seem to be in a good place. Congrats, and best wishes. Maybe all of the past challenges has done some good, eh?
lmao sorry but if you dont hold grudges you would of never of even brought this up in this froum at all. Well at least you try to redeem your post by wishing him well. lol could not resist.
At some point the whole blame game really becomes pointless, I must say that after war hammer launched I was one of the posters on VNBoards bashing Jacobs and the crew. At some point I just moved on and I have a different perspective on it now.
Sometimes in life we create scapegoats to channel shortcomings that we often have ourselves but are not ready to face them yet. Instead we take it out on an easy target like most folks have done to Mark after Warhammer.
I never put myself in his shoes at the time as I was blinded by own sense of self righteousness and anger, but looking back at now, I feel sadness for my actions as I can see how its mindless to jump in the frey and kick a man while he is down.
We all make mistskes, sometimes big ones, and at those times we can feel utterly worthless and like a complete failure, however anothers compassion and forgiveness can bring us back into the light and out of our despair.
Be kind to eachother, find forgivness inside yourself, that is what I learned from Mr Jacobs, even though I never met the man
o7 Respect! Made my day, glad to read from another person who can see trough the fog of his own miss conceptions.
As for Jacob interview, he made a mistake he seems to have figured it out, still he was part of one of the most inovative MMO's that had managed to impliment a great amount of good ideas but got it lost in the player sea. I am more than sure he will find a few more cards to bring to the table and hopefully play them better next time around, and may the force be with him and bring us more great games to flame him about. :P
Jacobs... just like the cracker.. crumbles easy and soon as you have taken a bite you realise how dry and lumpy it really all is..
no im not bitter about warhammer online
I agree with you there Black-Dog. I think these people get their first bite of the heavy money when something hits. Then they just get lazy as hell and have no direction. I understand everything sooner or later has to end, but do you have to drag it through a field of broken glass and battery acid?
I mean if something seems unbalanced then slightly tone it down. You don't have to rip everything a new one to make it look like your working.
Best pvp game I ever played to date is still DAoC, and that's in part to MJ, no matter what is said or done, that is fact and history. For that he will always have my respect as a great game maker. Anything he does, will have my attention. I think it's a shame more devs don't put themselves out there for us to know and get behind, but then...seeing how much MJ has taken over the years I can see why they don't as well.
Glad to MJ still putting out games though, hopefully he feels the desire to make another mmo, or improve an existing one (or revive a dead one).
Interview was great, nice insights on his history and the industry itself.
Mark, you probably don't remember me (using this same name), but you launched into a personnal and scathing attack on me in your forums when I pointed out that DAoC was going to lose subs because you said the world was going to be zoned, and many others were agreeing. Then a month later you were talking about your new "bubble" techology to remove zones.
But I don't hold grudges. Just wanted to say that DAoC was one of the better Themepark games, and some aspects of it were very well done. If it hadn't been Themepark and force marched me past zones I liked very much, I would have considered it one of the great games.
The PvP system was a good one, the best I've seen for a game that isn't "open world". Even in a Sandbox game, it's a solid option to control the brutal outcome of ganksquads such as UO had. Just not the best option, IMO.
Your customer service was the best I've seen in all of MMOdom. Both in-game as well as on the boards, you guys had this nailed!
The bigges shame was the Themeparkiness, the zoning of content. You guys had a great world, and I didn't want to be forced to move on from many areas. Would much rather have done that by choice, when I wanted to, and return to a "home zone", if you will. Of course, that would mean alternate game play to keep things interesting while staying put in an area. I really wished DAoC had done that. The lore was a fantastic choice, and in this it could have been more developed to accomodate it. I'm sure I'm ot the only player that spent a lot of time trying to figure out meaning to the runes, looking for deeper mysteries in the game.
From what it sounds like, you seem to be in a good place. Congrats, and best wishes. Maybe all of the past challenges has done some good, eh?
lmao sorry but if you dont hold grudges you would of never of even brought this up in this froum at all. Well at least you try to redeem your post by wishing him well. lol could not resist.
Mark, you probably don't remember me (using this same name), but you launched into a personnal and scathing attack on me in your forums when I pointed out that DAoC was going to lose subs because you said the world was going to be zoned, and many others were agreeing. Then a month later you were talking about your new "bubble" techology to remove zones.
But I don't hold grudges. Just wanted to say that DAoC was one of the better Themepark games, and some aspects of it were very well done. If it hadn't been Themepark and force marched me past zones I liked very much, I would have considered it one of the great games.
The PvP system was a good one, the best I've seen for a game that isn't "open world". Even in a Sandbox game, it's a solid option to control the brutal outcome of ganksquads such as UO had. Just not the best option, IMO.
Your customer service was the best I've seen in all of MMOdom. Both in-game as well as on the boards, you guys had this nailed!
The bigges shame was the Themeparkiness, the zoning of content. You guys had a great world, and I didn't want to be forced to move on from many areas. Would much rather have done that by choice, when I wanted to, and return to a "home zone", if you will. Of course, that would mean alternate game play to keep things interesting while staying put in an area. I really wished DAoC had done that. The lore was a fantastic choice, and in this it could have been more developed to accomodate it. I'm sure I'm ot the only player that spent a lot of time trying to figure out meaning to the runes, looking for deeper mysteries in the game.
From what it sounds like, you seem to be in a good place. Congrats, and best wishes. Maybe all of the past challenges has done some good, eh?
lmao sorry but if you dont hold grudges you would of never of even brought this up in this froum at all. Well at least you try to redeem your post by wishing him well. lol could not resist.
thx Mark for this words.. now we know that rumors about things in Mythic vs. EA from times when i play WAR was tru... EA was tragedy for Warhammer Universe.. i hope in your new project... take my money on kickstarter!
I played warhammer a lot longer than games that came out since like rift, gw2, swtor (what a rip off 2 weeks), tsw etc..
the first few months were rough, but there wasnt anything else around pvp wise (except eve), but once it settled despite the bugs it was a fun game, and it had some excellent pvp systems, like how tanks worked, how archers worked (since copied by gw2 and tsw) and the CC system (not not the CC system at launch).
Then bioware got a hold of it......
Now youd think bioware, great the pve is lacking, maybe they work on the dungeons, put in some better pve loot that gives you a starter set for rvr, add some more dungeons, tweak the PQs, delve into the warhammer lore.
but no, biowares grand plan was, let mess with the PVP and make it more wow like, thats what the punters want. So they put in wow style wtfpwn gear (which anyone who witnessed TOA with daoc knows is a no no with a pvp mmo), broke the lore by letting order dress up as a skaven, made the RVR timed bullshit like lake wintergrasp in wow and made other stupid ideas like putting respawn spots in the keeps, which meant killing players in the open field gave them a free death taxi.
What "they" did to WAR is imho one of the biggests MMORPG travesties to date. To squander so much good will and perfect IP to ruin one of the best games that could have been is unforgivable. The entire leadership team in charge should be banned from making video games for the rest of their lives.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Politics with ea, bioware and hickman cost marc his job. Not bloody bright wizards, which he had nothing to do with anyway, the guy doing the balance stuff is that pvp guy on rift.
You know your orcs vs orks.
That said, zone crashes and BW/WP etc all took their toll. Not to say some classes were v good eg gobbo shaman/squid herder and engi had nice touches even if they were not uber.
WAR was a good game, but the problems that made the missed opportunities become larger than the fun of the gameplay, grew in weight the longer you played WAR
=
I've learnt since that 3 factions is a lot, lot better, but player-created factions is best of all.
Yeah, yeah.. enough of the Mark Jacobs hate/love fest.. I want to know what this new game is that they are working on. It was hard to decipher what his intent was on any future MMO's. Is this one? Whatever it is, it has 3 factions.... or is this just wishful thinking?
Comments
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Their stock is lower than it has been in a long LONG time. They aren't doing well.
sounds to me like you are just bitter and complaining not knowing really what happened with mythic. TOA did not Ruin DAOC like some of the bitter people here like to say. Yes people quit over it and yes people were mad but mythic changed how artifacts were leveled and made the master level raids much easier with new frontiers. People left DAOC for wow and EQ2 when they released. Hell even shadowbane took a chunk of DAOC population. People do not play the same game daily forever no matter if it is great or just okay. People have been hoping around games since eq and uo its not something new to the genre. I played them all as well but still held a strong love for DAOC. Warhammer was terrible yes but you need to put blame on denton and hickman. If you tell people here to read old articles than you know that it was hickman and denton that killed warhammer online for many people. Also war had plenty of subs at release and most didnt just leave either. Most left after the constant class imbalances like brightwizards that Adam Gersowitz(who know works for Trion) continued to make stronger and not address the glaring issues with them.
Nothing like melting a entire pug with 2 bright wizards a couple of pocket healers and a tank to shield wall a choke point. I was there from beta to 2010 and i remember the boards and all the crying over BWs.
I would be playing Warhammer Online today if it went F2P. It is the best PvP experience out for myself. I don't think they made a terrible game, I think that they made the wrong moves after launch and it was impossible to come back from. They fixed so many things, but most people don't look twice. The only thing that gets a second look in the MMO world is when a game changes buisness models.
lmao sorry but if you dont hold grudges you would of never of even brought this up in this froum at all. Well at least you try to redeem your post by wishing him well. lol could not resist.
Great interview. Really puts a lot of the debate to rest on Mark's departure from EA/Mythic. I was a pretty big critic of Warhammer when it launched as were many others. But i'm just a random forumgoer on the interwebs. It must have been a living hell what Mark had to put up with to ensure that ROI accured, while still trying to make a quality product.
Reminds you again how messy things get whenever people do business with EA.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Please it wasnt Bright Wizards that did it in.
It was the combo of Bright Wizard, Knight of the Blazing Sun and the Warrior Priest that fucking broke the PvP/RvR game.
And it broke it fucking bad.
I watched 2 BW's, 1 KotBS, 2 WP's wipe 20-30 man groups over and over. Its when I said fuck-it and quit.
And yes Im bitter about it. I still to this day miss that game and its potential.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Once upon a time....
o7 Respect! Made my day, glad to read from another person who can see trough the fog of his own miss conceptions.
As for Jacob interview, he made a mistake he seems to have figured it out, still he was part of one of the most inovative MMO's that had managed to impliment a great amount of good ideas but got it lost in the player sea. I am more than sure he will find a few more cards to bring to the table and hopefully play them better next time around, and may the force be with him and bring us more great games to flame him about. :P
I agree with you there Black-Dog. I think these people get their first bite of the heavy money when something hits. Then they just get lazy as hell and have no direction. I understand everything sooner or later has to end, but do you have to drag it through a field of broken glass and battery acid?
I mean if something seems unbalanced then slightly tone it down. You don't have to rip everything a new one to make it look like your working.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
"Love can be innocent and can be sweet, but sometimes about as nice as rotting meat."
Best pvp game I ever played to date is still DAoC, and that's in part to MJ, no matter what is said or done, that is fact and history. For that he will always have my respect as a great game maker. Anything he does, will have my attention. I think it's a shame more devs don't put themselves out there for us to know and get behind, but then...seeing how much MJ has taken over the years I can see why they don't as well.
Glad to MJ still putting out games though, hopefully he feels the desire to make another mmo, or improve an existing one (or revive a dead one).
Interview was great, nice insights on his history and the industry itself.
Seems like a waste of red meat, to me.
Once upon a time....
you know what for all its faults.
I played warhammer a lot longer than games that came out since like rift, gw2, swtor (what a rip off 2 weeks), tsw etc..
the first few months were rough, but there wasnt anything else around pvp wise (except eve), but once it settled despite the bugs it was a fun game, and it had some excellent pvp systems, like how tanks worked, how archers worked (since copied by gw2 and tsw) and the CC system (not not the CC system at launch).
Then bioware got a hold of it......
Now youd think bioware, great the pve is lacking, maybe they work on the dungeons, put in some better pve loot that gives you a starter set for rvr, add some more dungeons, tweak the PQs, delve into the warhammer lore.
but no, biowares grand plan was, let mess with the PVP and make it more wow like, thats what the punters want. So they put in wow style wtfpwn gear (which anyone who witnessed TOA with daoc knows is a no no with a pvp mmo), broke the lore by letting order dress up as a skaven, made the RVR timed bullshit like lake wintergrasp in wow and made other stupid ideas like putting respawn spots in the keeps, which meant killing players in the open field gave them a free death taxi.
You know your orcs vs orks.
That said, zone crashes and BW/WP etc all took their toll. Not to say some classes were v good eg gobbo shaman/squid herder and engi had nice touches even if they were not uber.
WAR was a good game, but the problems that made the missed opportunities become larger than the fun of the gameplay, grew in weight the longer you played WAR
=
I've learnt since that 3 factions is a lot, lot better, but player-created factions is best of all.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Yeah, yeah.. enough of the Mark Jacobs hate/love fest.. I want to know what this new game is that they are working on. It was hard to decipher what his intent was on any future MMO's. Is this one? Whatever it is, it has 3 factions.... or is this just wishful thinking?