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Clearly Visible Problems

Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

I would encourage the upcoming beta testers (of which I hope to be one) to emphasise the following issues in a big way to ensure at least some of them are addressed to some extent.

  1. The Way the War Works – the war has (by agreement of the factions or some other reason presumably) been restricted to Cyrodil – otherwise commons sense would mean raids into home territories. There are possibilities here;
    1. Lifting restricted zone access under certain circumstances – disguises, trade missions and spying or espionage missions would give people access to other regions, dungeons etc. and greatly reduce this negative consequence of the PvP setup.
  2. Guild Building and Housing – this needs to be put in at the start – trophies, statues, tapestries, treasures etc. that have Guild or personal significance should have a home – right alongside the characters.
  3. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.
  4. Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.
If they don't, and these get left in 'as is' (or seems to be based on current information) the game will suffer - which would be a great shame.
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Comments

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,537Member Uncommon

    Every major guild these days has members with multiple accounts in separate factions so that they know what the enemies are doing.

    So creating alts in other faction is a moot point due to the fact that folks will just have multiple accts if you lock it down.

    fog of war in online gaming is pretty much impossible to do, as you never know which players have other accts on the enemy side.

  • ShaikeShaike NesherPosts: 301Member Uncommon

    I will not respond to everything you said - and my reasons are my own.

    I only wish to convay my opinion on one thing - FINALLY AN MMO THAT MAKES/FORCES YOU TO CREATE ALTS....

    I do not think this should be changed and i really am SURE it will add to this game being different than all the other trash we have now......

    Just my 2 cents...

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    1 drop the megaserver. Have servers, adopt the 3 rulesets of daoc - core (what this megaserver is using), free for all and coop.
    2 agree
    3 agree
    4 sort of agree, the megaserver thing gets them into this mess. If they went with daoc system they could - faction lock the core servers, single character lock the ffa servers, and allow anything goes alt wise on the coop servers.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Kano
    Sure spying happens in all mmos, some players can afford multiple accounts
    But with the megaserver entire guilds could cheese pvp with alts as there is no cash disincentive to prevent them.
  • VonatarVonatar PraguePosts: 672Member Uncommon
    Drop the factional segregation in PVE and let us have all of Tamriel to roam. This is what I will be telling them. This is Elder Scrolls not DAoC. If people want faction warfare they can go to Cyrodiil. Unlike DAoC there is a very big reason to let us go where we want in the world.
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,537Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Kano
    Sure spying happens in all mmos, some players can afford multiple accounts
    But with the megaserver entire guilds could cheese pvp with alts as there is no cash disincentive to prevent them.

    I agree, I was just pointing out that OPs idea of "fog of war" in MMORPGs is impossible to implement due to multiple accts. 

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I would encourage the upcoming beta testers (of which I hope to be one) to emphasise the following issues in a big way to ensure at least some of them are addressed to some extent.

    1. The Way the War Works – the war has (by agreement of the factions or some other reason presumably) been restricted to Cyrodil – otherwise commons sense would mean raids into home territories. There are possibilities here;
      1. Lifting restricted zone access under certain circumstances – disguises, trade missions and spying or espionage missions would give people access to other regions, dungeons etc. and greatly reduce this negative consequence of the PvP setup.
    2. Guild Building and Housing – this needs to be put in at the start – trophies, statues, tapestries, treasures etc. that have Guild or personal significance should have a home – right alongside the characters.
    3. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.
    4. Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.
    If they don't, and these get left in 'as is' (or seems to be based on current information) the game will suffer - which would be a great shame.

    1) It's using a similar system as DAoC, which makes sense considering Matt Frior is at the helm. Having safe home realms worked fine in DAoC as well. If you want a successful mmo in todays market, the pvp and pve need to be kept separate so as to not cater too much to one group or another

    2) I agree, but this is actually not a common feature in mmos, so I wouldn't hold my breath. It would be nice though.

    3) Are you talking about the historic guilds from the ES series, or player run guilds here?

    4) Doesn't matter if you place a cooldown on alts for Cyrodil, there will always be people with multiple accounts. Realm spying happens, it sucks, but it's just part of how these games tend to work.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Kaneth
    1 on CORE servers. Daoc also had ffa servers where you could go anywhere and have darkfall style guild vs guild action. It also had coop servers where you could make guilds with the other factions and go pve all the dungeons.
  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    1. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.

     

    They are really allowing cross faction guilds..? And multi guild membership?

    Oh boy...

    I get Devs wanna be all laid back and 'do what you want' but, y'know, a certain amount of restrictions and rules are actually *good* for a game and the player of that game.

    Devs these days are like those parents that you see who are shit scared to tell their kids what to do or put any boundaries on them in case they scream 'I hate you mommy!!!' at them in the supermarket.

    It's pathetic.

     

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member

    1.  Sorta agree... sorta.   The only this this would do is add options to PvP but then again this would require a segregated zone (believe it or not people who want open world PvP are the minority).  But then again it will only worsen issues with 3 faction PvP.  This is not a true sandbox game.  Keep PvP in Cyrodil but make it great instead of adding all these additions and then making it much more complicated and in the end a pile of turd.

    2.  Disagree.  Nice stuff but not necessities.  Should be on a "To Do" list of importance but certainly not a necessity.  These are luxary features, and certainly not a "clearly visible problem."

    3.  Actually there are plenty of multi-guild arguements.  Dead guilds, a guild of real life buddies, a PvE focused guild, an RP guild (which will be seeing in ES:O), a PvP centric guild, ect ect.  I stay dedicated to guilds but there are times when I like to test the water a bit or how some people rub me off the wrong way and best if I don't play with em for a while.

    4.  Ohhh please... like this doesn't happen already.  People are always reporting activities and will always find ways to do it.  What they really need to address is faction imbalance issues.  THAT is a killer in 3 faction warfare which TSW can attest to.  Peope serious about winning in PvP will go for the biggest pop faction and will just zerg win.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    I would encourage the upcoming beta testers (of which I hope to be one) to emphasise the following issues in a big way to ensure at least some of them are addressed to some extent. [*] The Way the War Works – the war has (by agreement of the factions or some other reason presumably) been restricted to Cyrodil – otherwise commons sense would mean raids into home territories. There are possibilities here; [*] Lifting restricted zone access under certain circumstances – disguises, trade missions and spying or espionage missions would give people access to other regions, dungeons etc. and greatly reduce this negative consequence of the PvP setup. [*] Guild Building and Housing – this needs to be put in at the start – trophies, statues, tapestries, treasures etc. that have Guild or personal significance should have a home – right alongside the characters.
    Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.
    Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.
    If they don't, and these get left in 'as is' (or seems to be based on current information) the game will suffer - which would be a great shame.


    1) What is the negative consequence of the PvP setup? You said there's one but haven't described it.
    2) Agree, but this never goes in at the start. I don't know why.
    3) Joining a single guild is something that needs to go away if the social aspect of MMORPG is going to survive. People simply do not expect to only be able to join one group.
    4) Too many rules. A 'fog of war' already exists because individuals have a limited view of opposing faction activities. I don't this would really add anything to the experience of the game.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    1. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.

     

    They are really allowing cross faction guilds..? And multi guild membership?

    Oh boy...

    I get Devs wanna be all laid back and 'do what you want' but, y'know, a certain amount of restrictions and rules are actually *good* for a game and the player of that game.

    Devs these days are like those parents that you see who are shit scared to tell their kids what to do or put any boundaries on them in case they scream 'I hate you mommy!!!' at them in the supermarket.

    It's pathetic.

     

    Actually no they haven't, OP is on his soapbox.  It's not confirmed whether it's in or out.  It's on the table but nothing has been decided yet.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ambros123
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    1. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.

     

    They are really allowing cross faction guilds..? And multi guild membership?

    Oh boy...

    I get Devs wanna be all laid back and 'do what you want' but, y'know, a certain amount of restrictions and rules are actually *good* for a game and the player of that game.

    Devs these days are like those parents that you see who are shit scared to tell their kids what to do or put any boundaries on them in case they scream 'I hate you mommy!!!' at them in the supermarket.

    Actually no they haven't, OP is on his soapbox.  It's not confirmed whether it's in or out.  It's on the table but nothing has been decided yet.

     

    Wow... such a core gameplay consideration hasn't been decided yet? It's pretty late in the day for them to not know which way to jump on this tbh... 

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Kaneth
    1 on CORE servers. Daoc also had ffa servers where you could go anywhere and have darkfall style guild vs guild action. It also had coop servers where you could make guilds with the other factions and go pve all the dungeons.

    Now isn't there something about being able to choose from different "phases" of the megaserver? You take that "personality" test and then get placed in a "phase" with people of similar interests. If that's the case, couldn't they make a FFA "phase" and a co-op "phase" of the megaserver?.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Ambros a big problem with tsw is the mixed message of pve together then pvp against each other. Also ability to make cross faction alts easily then occupy fusang with them to take out real spots. There's no such team balance issues in say ps2.
  • FreezzoFreezzo EnschedePosts: 235Member
    Sorry guys, but it's not a DAOC graphics overhaul?

    "We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
    And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Kaneth not really.
    You took keeps and stuff on a guild rather than faction basis on the ffa server. Also having say coop phases, won't stop the alt cheese on the core ruleset.

    In my experience when you have rvr type play you need faction lock on accounts. It's why planetside and daoc work, and war and gw2 sorta work, but why swtor & tsw don't work at all (also war and daoc since they merged servers and put a timer lock in instead)
  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Ambros123

    4.  Ohhh please... like this doesn't happen already.  People are always reporting activities and will always find ways to do it.  What they really need to address is faction imbalance issues.  THAT is a killer in 3 faction warfare which TSW can attest to.  Peope serious about winning in PvP will go for the biggest pop faction and will just zerg win.

    Sorry I wasn't entirely clear here;

    It's not that it doesn't happen already that I am unhappy about - it's the fact that it will be so EASY and therefore a standard tactic even for the least munchkin guilds who wouldn't normally make the effort of paying double for the priviledge. It could become so ubiquitous as to make it suicide NOT to do it...

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Ambros123
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    1. Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.

     

    They are really allowing cross faction guilds..? And multi guild membership?

    Oh boy...

    I get Devs wanna be all laid back and 'do what you want' but, y'know, a certain amount of restrictions and rules are actually *good* for a game and the player of that game.

    Devs these days are like those parents that you see who are shit scared to tell their kids what to do or put any boundaries on them in case they scream 'I hate you mommy!!!' at them in the supermarket.

    It's pathetic.

     

    Actually no they haven't, OP is on his soapbox.  It's not confirmed whether it's in or out.  It's on the table but nothing has been decided yet.

    I am indeed on my soapbox, but I never said it was in - it's the possibility of it being in I am alarmed about...

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member

    Sorry, I don't really care for any of these ideas OP, just seem like a waste to time to try to implement, also a whole lot of "who cares?" factor at play here.

    Seems trivial.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    I would encourage the upcoming beta testers (of which I hope to be one) to emphasise the following issues in a big way to ensure at least some of them are addressed to some extent. [*] The Way the War Works – the war has (by agreement of the factions or some other reason presumably) been restricted to Cyrodil – otherwise commons sense would mean raids into home territories. There are possibilities here; [*] Lifting restricted zone access under certain circumstances – disguises, trade missions and spying or espionage missions would give people access to other regions, dungeons etc. and greatly reduce this negative consequence of the PvP setup. [*] Guild Building and Housing – this needs to be put in at the start – trophies, statues, tapestries, treasures etc. that have Guild or personal significance should have a home – right alongside the characters.
    Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.
    Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.
    If they don't, and these get left in 'as is' (or seems to be based on current information) the game will suffer - which would be a great shame.

    Im going for the beta.. If i am successful, I will mention my dislike for the faction locks.

    Then i will do what i was 'contracted' to do and bug test their development roadmap.

    Their beyond the planing stage major things like this are unlikely to change. again were only testers not developers.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • NC-JohnNC-John burlington, WIPosts: 113Member

    1. Primary faction you can play and fight for your side.

    2. Second primary faction is against the first and vice versa.

    3. Third faction can remain neutral and travel to both sides home territory.

    "Not even a cray super computer can make this game run well. Thats what happens when you code an MMO in pascal. " - miglor

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    It has 3 faction pvp that has me sold.
  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    I would encourage the upcoming beta testers (of which I hope to be one) to emphasise the following issues in a big way to ensure at least some of them are addressed to some extent. [*] The Way the War Works – the war has (by agreement of the factions or some other reason presumably) been restricted to Cyrodil – otherwise commons sense would mean raids into home territories. There are possibilities here; [*] Lifting restricted zone access under certain circumstances – disguises, trade missions and spying or espionage missions would give people access to other regions, dungeons etc. and greatly reduce this negative consequence of the PvP setup. [*] Guild Building and Housing – this needs to be put in at the start – trophies, statues, tapestries, treasures etc. that have Guild or personal significance should have a home – right alongside the characters.
    Guild Membership – Guilds needs to be exclusive. In a factionalise world it makes no sense at all to have open multi-guild membership. This has no arguable merit.
    Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.
    If they don't, and these get left in 'as is' (or seems to be based on current information) the game will suffer - which would be a great shame.

     

    Im going for the beta.. If i am successful, I will mention my dislike for the faction locks.

    Then i will do what i was 'contracted' to do and bug test their development roadmap.

    Their beyond the planing stage major things like this are unlikely to change. again were only testers not developers.

    I think you will find that beta players are more than game function and stress testers.

    Yes that is a major element - but if a large number of beta people say a feature is crapola - that's testing too - testing the playability, fun and from a games company point of view - the potential profitability of the game...

    Never underestimate what you can achieve in numbers... nor indeed how an idea can grab the imagination of said numbers...

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    1. Faction Membership and Alts – Alts should not be able to go into Cyrodil and there should be a cooldown on a toggleable ‘Main’ declaration. Otherwise the combination of same-server other Faction Alts, the use of TS and the minimum level of deviousness will mean every single enemy movement, strategy and tactic in Cyrodil will be reported to opposing factions live. No quicker way to ruin the ‘Fog of War’ and the challenge and fun that entails.

    This is already fixed

     

    When you enter cyrodil you are assigned a campaign, which is your home campaign and can only be changed at cost, that campaign will be shared by your guild, if you make an alt on another faction you will be locked out of the campaign that your main/mains guild is on

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