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Is it just me or has MMO games in general become boring and stale with nothing new to offer?

24

Comments

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Originally posted by Isturi

    Im sorry but it seems that MMO games in general have fizzeled for me. Nothing new to explore to excite me to make me jump out of my chair and say OMG this game has my attention for several years to come. It seems Devs lost thier drive to make a new and fantastic MMO to give us gamers. No new turns no nothing at all that calls out for any long term or short term play for that matter.

    Have Devs ran out of fresh idea's? I just think they are satified in giving us garbage any more and we still eat it up. We dont say enough is enough of the crap MMO's out there and we contenue to except the low grade junk as standard for gaming.

    I guess I miss the newness of MMO games when only a handful of such games were availible to us like UO or EQ or even WoW in its hayday along with SWG for that matter when gaming companies took responsibilty for giving quality games. I just dont see the quality anymor.

    As you already know and have read on these forums.....no it's not just you.

    Thing is all the complaints we had back in the old day's is the reason mostly why this genre is what it is today.

    People felt it was to complex, to many options, to many skills, to much freedom, to much reading, balance this balance that, hard to find groups, lack of content even though back in the old many just ignore the content that was there, they just didn't understand that a game doesn't have to tell you what to do.

    Today we have: Less complex (still somewhat overwelming for new players), less options, skills have changed to being combat oriented mostly so we have less of that too, less freedom we must do what developers have written for us, less reading we have  voice-overs now even though we had them back then aswell just less then today. People these day's want everthing to be balanced, why should we have a master medic profession if he can not fight....., we now have every means at our fingertips to form groups. These day's everything a developer trows at players is considered content, sorry but a new instance, a new raid is sort of new content but a very limited type of content to me.

    So if any of you actually been active on forums back then we already could tell that this genre would head this way as it is today. Sure I don't like it though sometimes I do enjoy certain themepark games but aint enjoying them as MMORPG but just as online games as they provide once you reach cap lvl nothing more then your avarage multiplayer game. Often the moment I leave most themepark games.

    People say virtual worlds, sandbox games don't work. I use to be one of them due to me thinking I was the minority in today's MMO scene. But then it got me thinking, how many A-tittle sandbox have been released since internet became mainstream and some of us even using fiber connnections today?

    Some people I even see saying that MMO's try to hard to please everyone and that needs to stop, funny thing is that I entered this genre and it actually had something for everyone ranging from combat to non-combat professions, set in a more virtual world instead of just themepark ride. MMO's today actually offer nothing more then your regular single or multiplayer game already offers.

    I always thought in a MMORPG it's the community that makes the game comes alive, today's generation of gamers seem to want the developers make the worlds alive. This time it just might be me but don't developers bring us these grand singleplayer games that seem very alive (GTA,ElderScrolls, Farcry and then some)

    Don't get me wrong I am in the same boat as you are, I just don't see this blame game towards developers or even "the suits"

    I also don't blame the old school gamer who has sticked with certain old school games for years, but I do blame a large part on those who left with a few weeks or a month and complaint and complaint to get us where we are today with MMO's

    TYVM this is how I feel. You hit it 100% I am tired of the dumb down effect over the years. I miss the 40 man raids with CC I miss the chain quest lines to get attuned to a certian dungen or raid. I miss relying on your friends to be on just to get a raid going. YES I miss waiting for hours to do a raid that took days or a week to complete. I miss REAL PVP vs todays so called PVP were you today can just face roll most of the time and get away with it. I Miss the involved lore of a very good story line not just go kill five rats for 1g man You mention Reklaw is it in  a nut shell.

    image

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Play something else then. MMOs are obviously still entertaining a lot of people when there are 50M MMO players just in the US.

    I think he's counting anyone that plays games and has an internet connection.. LOL 

  • InfinityDInfinityD Long Beach, CAPosts: 33Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Isturi
    Well eve hits all them buttons.

    Other games hit some of them, e.g ps2 hits the pvp button.

    I suppose EVE does, until you realize that starting a new character is an excersize in futility and frustration in a game where the odds are stacked 10 years against you.

    I want to love EVE, but damn. I've been killed 11 times in the month i've been playing, and havent even been on a single killmail. And I have been flying frigates, focusing my SP specifically on only a few in one faction, flying in groups with capable FC's, and REALLY trying. Its just really frustrating. Nobody will fight without a reasonable expectancy of winning, and at this point, 99% of people have a straight, outright advantage over me. And that percentage will not go down very much over time.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Isturi

    Im sorry but it seems that MMO games in general have fizzeled for me. Nothing new to explore to excite me to make me jump out of my chair and say OMG this game has my attention for several years to come. It seems Devs lost thier drive to make a new and fantastic MMO to give us gamers. No new turns no nothing at all that calls out for any long term or short term play for that matter.

    Have Devs ran out of fresh idea's? I just think they are satified in giving us garbage any more and we still eat it up. We dont say enough is enough of the crap MMO's out there and we contenue to except the low grade junk as standard for gaming.

    I guess I miss the newness of MMO games when only a handful of such games were availible to us like UO or EQ or even WoW in its hayday along with SWG for that matter when gaming companies took responsibilty for giving quality games. I just dont see the quality anymor.

     

    If you are burnt out, then you are burnt out... no point in us discussing your feelings at length here really, or looking for some supposed reason why these games have somehow failed you. You no longer, at this time, enjoy MMORPGs. Fine.

    Then don't play them.

    Time to take maybe a year off them and play something else, maybe even some tabletop or whatever. Maybe even nothing to do with gaming at all.

    I have been playing since '99, but in that time I have taken extended breaks and that is the only reason I still play... I find what bored me sick became fun again after some time away. I even started missing from MMOs that what I had previously had hated, given time.

     

    No point in blaming the games themselves here in this case tbh, it's just that you are at this time burnt out.

     

     

     

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw

    As you already know and have read on these forums.....no it's not just you.

    Thing is all the complaints we had back in the old day's is the reason mostly why this genre is what it is today.

    People felt it was to complex, to many options, to many skills, to much freedom, to much reading, balance this balance that, hard to find groups, lack of content even though back in the old many just ignore the content that was there, they just didn't understand that a game doesn't have to tell you what to do.

    Today we have: Less complex (still somewhat overwelming for new players), less options, skills have changed to being combat oriented mostly so we have less of that too, less freedom we must do what developers have written for us, less reading we have  voice-overs now even though we had them back then aswell just less then today. People these day's want everthing to be balanced, why should we have a master medic profession if he can not fight....., we now have every means at our fingertips to form groups. These day's everything a developer trows at players is considered content, sorry but a new instance, a new raid is sort of new content but a very limited type of content to me.

    So if any of you actually been active on forums back then we already could tell that this genre would head this way as it is today. Sure I don't like it though sometimes I do enjoy certain themepark games but aint enjoying them as MMORPG but just as online games as they provide once you reach cap lvl nothing more then your avarage multiplayer game. Often the moment I leave most themepark games.

    People say virtual worlds, sandbox games don't work. I use to be one of them due to me thinking I was the minority in today's MMO scene. But then it got me thinking, how many A-tittle sandbox have been released since internet became mainstream and some of us even using fiber connnections today?

    Some people I even see saying that MMO's try to hard to please everyone and that needs to stop, funny thing is that I entered this genre and it actually had something for everyone ranging from combat to non-combat professions, set in a more virtual world instead of just themepark ride. MMO's today actually offer nothing more then your regular single or multiplayer game already offers.

    I always thought in a MMORPG it's the community that makes the game comes alive, today's generation of gamers seem to want the developers make the worlds alive. This time it just might be me but don't developers bring us these grand singleplayer games that seem very alive (GTA,ElderScrolls, Farcry and then some)

    Don't get me wrong I am in the same boat as you are, I just don't see this blame game towards developers or even "the suits"

    I also don't blame the old school gamer who has sticked with certain old school games for years, but I do blame a large part on those who left with a few weeks or a month and complaint and complaint to get us where we are today with MMO's

    Good post. I hope still that someone will pick up where SWG left off and design a really good third generation sandbox game, and innovate in a positive way the game mechanics that were offered while not incorporating the many flaws. I am not talking about necessarily a game set in the Star Wars universe again, even though that would not be a bad thing.

    SWG had so many nice things in it, though it had some really bad things too, pre-NGE even.

    I am surprised that no Western dev seems that interested in making a deep sandbox game like SWG again. Wouldn't it cost less than designing a themepark with cutscenes and VOs like ToR ?

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member

    The answer is as clear as the nose on your face IF you take the time to look in a mirror.

    YOU are jaded because you have been playing a particular type of game for years...

    GAMES are less innovative currently due to the desire of umpteen companies to snatch a part of the cash cow WoW market without taking the kinds of risks that make accountants left eyes twitch.

    These two zeitgeists have come together in the ‘perfect storm’.

    BOTH will have to shift paradigm before you start feeling better.

    Sorry...

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    The answer is as clear as the nose on your face IF you take the time to look in a mirror.

    YOU are jaded because you have been playing a particular type of game for years...

    GAMES are less innovative currently due to the desire of umpteen companies to snatch a part of the cash cow WoW market without taking the kinds of risks that make accountants left eyes twitch.

    These two zeitgeists have come together in the ‘perfect storm’.

    BOTH will have to shift paradigm before you start feeling better.

    Sorry...

    Well said.

    image

  • MuppetierMuppetier SouthamptonPosts: 277Member

    When there were one or two quality MMOs released every year I would take the time and make the effort to experience each game to its full.

     

    Now there is a choice of twenty games to play it is too easy to skim over each one and move on to the next.

     

    I get out from a game what I am prepared to put into it.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,862Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by IcewhiteOr...nine more years have passed.Op's basically asking why he isn't the same person as nine years ago...

    More like he is asking why others are not the same people as nine years ago since it is apparent he did not change a bit since...everything around him did though.


    Pretty common self-centered perception on these boards.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Play something else then. MMOs are obviously still entertaining a lot of people when there are 50M MMO players just in the US.

    I think he's counting anyone that plays games and has an internet connection.. LOL 

    No me. Newzoo .. if you have any issue with their marketing research data, take it up with them.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon

    Nope just you.

     

    With games like Age of Wushu, ArcheAge, and The Repopulation (which I will not play) for the sandbox crowd and Neverwinter, Elder Scrolls Online, and Defiance for the themepark crwod there is alot of reason to be happy about the coming year in MMO's.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Icewhite

     

    Or...nine more years have passed.

    Op's basically asking why he isn't the same person as nine years ago...

     


     

    More like he is asking why others are not the same people as nine years ago since it is apparent he did not change a bit since...everything around him did though.


    Pretty common self-centered perception on these boards.

    TY Doc You seem to know me well.image

    image

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Surprise, surprise if you made a game similar to those 9 years ago today, they would be boring and stale aswell. Sometimes its a matter of being among the first, not if you're good or anything.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • PalaPala MoonPosts: 130Member Uncommon

    Here is a perfect example how it happens:

    I play world of tanks for a couple of years now and arty is dangeruous because it can hit you from above but you need to be spotted and out in the open for them to do it, but you get thousands of newer players complaining that arty is unfair, that it doesnt work like that in real life etc etc. So what Wargames does is implement a  nerf after nerf to arty to a point where hardly anyone plays it. OK listening to the customer right?

    Well, essentially what happens is that light scout tanks with vision are no loger needed as there is no job for them, medium flanking tanks who try to find and kill arty become pointless also and all you are left with is heavys and tank destroyers - armor vs penetration. So you are effectively left with a dumbed down version of the game, with lots of gameplay elements taken out.

    However max number of players online is growing and hitting new records!

    As a company WG is doing the right thing and making more money, people who enjoy complex and more involving gameplay are losing out but they seem to be a minority anyway. This seems to be the general trend in MMOs from my perspective.

     

     

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,476Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    The answer is as clear as the nose on your face IF you take the time to look in a mirror.

    YOU are jaded because you have been playing a particular type of game for years...

    GAMES are less innovative currently due to the desire of umpteen companies to snatch a part of the cash cow WoW market without taking the kinds of risks that make accountants left eyes twitch.

    These two zeitgeists have come together in the ‘perfect storm’.

    BOTH will have to shift paradigm before you start feeling better.

    Sorry...

    It's to easy to just say someone is jaded or burnedout, sure some might. But speaking for myself I know for a fact I aint jaded.

    I still enjoy and often look forward to other genre of games. This may be RTS games, FPS games, Puzzle games, Action/Adventure games.

    Currently heavy into Farcry 3, but I do know I am sort of a minority in HOW I enjoy and play these games. The CoD series, while forums and what not are full with outcries I really enjoy each and every serie they put out, do I mind they are very linear, of course not as they have alway's been linear. MMORPG when started where not that linear, didn't have limited classes, limited gameplay alltogether. It actually had lots of different playstyles coming together.

    But as said before stop the blame game towards developers, actually understand that much of today's MMO's scene has been asked for for years and years. Or this make believe gamecompany's only to snatch some cash from the WoW market.

    I believe people who blame gamecompany's have not been with gaming aslong as they suggest, they have not experianced how frustrating it was to be constantly spammed by goldscam website, sure this still goes on today, but I have seen it less then in the old, mainly because gamecompanys have finaly put a stand towards those goldscam websites and decided that if money was to be earned by their game it should be earned by those who created/published the game. But now people start to blame the company's for taking their own money revenue?

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Play Age of Wushu OP, problem solved. Everyday you will do things you have never done before in an mmorpg.
  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Surprise, surprise if you made a game similar to those 9 years ago today, they would be boring and stale aswell. Sometimes its a matter of being among the first, not if you're good or anything.

     

    That is an excellent point. Too bad nobody will listen and continue to claim the sky is falling.

  • zanebergeronzanebergeron winona, TXPosts: 80Member Uncommon

    I have played MANY MMOs over the years, some I have stuck with and some.....well it just took me logging in for an hour to not like.

    I myself may be suffering from burn out, as I have yet to find any one game I feel the NEED to log into lately. 

    And lately games released have only had partial mechanics I liked.  I'm not big into PVP gank fests, if there is a reason for PVP I am all for it, PVP just so some level 80 can come around and grief a level 10 isn't my idea of fun. 

    I am big in to crafting, but lately it seems like it is click here and it's done...no thought what so ever. A system where you can combine X hilt with X blade for an invidual look, rare recipes that may lead to only a few being able to craft said item. SWG had a nice crafting system, didn't fool around much with Vanguards system but heard it was pretty nice.

    Races to me are a biggie, but it seems like they are all the same.  Elf, Human, Dwarf....... Shadowbane had some fresh takes IMO. 

    The lack of rewards, why do I have to look exactly like everyone else.  "Oh I see from your gear you also beat the caves of crap!" This leaves me a little depressed, especially when they claim to unique looks...make your toon they way you want it.

    The fighting mechanics are just so unimaginitive also.  By dumbing down the system so everyone can be the same, it's just off-putting.  It seems like skills are just lack luster rehashes.

     

    Again these are just my opinions.

     

     

    CURRENTLY PLAYING |GW2|
    PLAYED UO:SWG:EQ2:GW:WoW:CoH:Lotro:AoC:Vanguard:Horizons:RIFT:swtor:Shadowbane and I'm sure a few others
    WATCHING:EQ Next : Wildstar:Archage :WoD
    WISHING FOR: A UO Remake
    HAPPILY PLAYING ONLINE SINCE 97.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by zanebergeron

    The lack of rewards, why do I have to look exactly like everyone else.  "Oh I see from your gear you also beat the caves of crap!" This leaves me a little depressed, especially when they claim to unique looks...make your toon they way you want it.

    I take issue with this. This is just not true for many games. STO and DCUO are two good examples. In STO, you can turn off the look of the gear, and wear a uniform you design. There is a similar function in DCUO.

    Heck, even in WOW, you can do transmorfigation to customize your look.

    The fighting mechanics are just so unimaginitive also.  By dumbing down the system so everyone can be the same, it's just off-putting.  It seems like skills are just lack luster rehashes.

     

    Which game are you talking about? I find plenty of games with fun combat mechanics. Diablo 3 (though not a MMO) is a good example. There are multiple viable builds for each class .. even different builds for different purposes, and you can do lock-down cc, or range kiting dps .. just in a wiz.
    STO is another good example. The space ship combat is pretty fun. There is a meta game of how you configure your weapons, and you can fight broadside by using phasers on a cruiser, or maneuver hit and run with canons and topedoes on a escort.
    I suppose your definition of fun is different from others but i wouldn't call games with extensive discussions and disagreement of how to optimize combat "dumb down" just because you don't like it, or lack the aptitude to understand the details.

     

     

     

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by zanebergeron

    I have played MANY MMOs over the years, some I have stuck with and some.....well it just took me logging in for an hour to not like.

    I myself may be suffering from burn out, as I have yet to find any one game I feel the NEED to log into lately. 

    And lately games released have only had partial mechanics I liked.  I'm not big into PVP gank fests, if there is a reason for PVP I am all for it, PVP just so some level 80 can come around and grief a level 10 isn't my idea of fun. 

    I am big in to crafting, but lately it seems like it is click here and it's done...no thought what so ever. A system where you can combine X hilt with X blade for an invidual look, rare recipes that may lead to only a few being able to craft said item. SWG had a nice crafting system, didn't fool around much with Vanguards system but heard it was pretty nice.

    Races to me are a biggie, but it seems like they are all the same.  Elf, Human, Dwarf....... Shadowbane had some fresh takes IMO. 

    The lack of rewards, why do I have to look exactly like everyone else.  "Oh I see from your gear you also beat the caves of crap!" This leaves me a little depressed, especially when they claim to unique looks...make your toon they way you want it.

    The fighting mechanics are just so unimaginitive also.  By dumbing down the system so everyone can be the same, it's just off-putting.  It seems like skills are just lack luster rehashes.

     

    Again these are just my opinions.

    I find that your complaints about crafting are right on, crafting seems to be something that a lot of devs don't really put much thought into anymore. It is partly because, in my view, to get it right, it is not just about the craft itself but what social impact it has and what the player economy is like. A lof of the more recent games just put in an AH and forget about the player economy it seems.

    What I loved about SWG's system was how fully fleshed out it was but it wasn't just the crafting itself. There was the trade aspect where you had to organize your homes/shops, set up your vendors, advertize your wares, decorate your shops to make a lasting impression, etc. Since tradeskills were reliant on other people, like armor crafters required scouts to get them hides, bone, etc., it meant that you were also incorporated into the player community. SWG was one of the few games where you could just be a crafter and you were considered a valuable person to have around even with 0 combat skills, and it was also fun. I didn't feel like I was hurting my character when I became a crafter in SWG.

    There are very few games where I feel that way anymore. EVE is really about the only one.

    Agreed with races, it would be nice to see some new ones, and as a female gamer, I am pretty sick of how most female characters look in games. I would like a change in not just how female bodies tend to be shaped, but also what the gear looks like. No more bikini and miniskirt stuff please... it is insulting and means that I am guaranteed to play only male characters in the game.

    I don't really agree with what you said about customized appearance in all games. I think that is one area where there has been a lot of improvement actually.

    Combat mechanics, well there again I disagree with you. TERA, EVE, WoW, ToR, GW2... they don't really play the same way do they ? I don't think so....

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow TurkuPosts: 1,187Member Uncommon

    Developers haven't been taking many risks with MMORPGs lately.

    I think Tera and B&S offer quite unique combat systems, I'd mention GW2 but somehow that game was a complete wreck as a MMORPG. Archeage will be brining a lot of different endgame content, while being quite common MMORPG in every other way. FFXIV is a mmorpg genre of it's own but the latest wowization might go bit too far but I'm still excited about it.

    TESO is probably the next innovator in sense of taking everything popular from other MMORPGs, blending them with fun and intuitive combat system and a meaningful RvR.

    But I do think the industry has learned their lesson and the traditional MMORPG is a thing of the past, we'll see more in upcoming years.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Play Age of Wushu OP, problem solved. Everyday you will do things you have never done before in an mmorpg.

     

    Such as?

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Pala

    Here is a perfect example how it happens:

    I play world of tanks for a couple of years now and arty is dangeruous because it can hit you from above but you need to be spotted and out in the open for them to do it, but you get thousands of newer players complaining that arty is unfair, that it doesnt work like that in real life etc etc. So what Wargames does is implement a  nerf after nerf to arty to a point where hardly anyone plays it. OK listening to the customer right?

    Well, essentially what happens is that light scout tanks with vision are no loger needed as there is no job for them, medium flanking tanks who try to find and kill arty become pointless also and all you are left with is heavys and tank destroyers - armor vs penetration. So you are effectively left with a dumbed down version of the game, with lots of gameplay elements taken out.

    However max number of players online is growing and hitting new records!

    As a company WG is doing the right thing and making more money, people who enjoy complex and more involving gameplay are losing out but they seem to be a minority anyway. This seems to be the general trend in MMOs from my perspective.

     

     

    A remarkably insightful and succinct appraisal of the issue.

    Bravo!

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Surprise, surprise if you made a game similar to those 9 years ago today, they would be boring and stale aswell. Sometimes its a matter of being among the first, not if you're good or anything.

    Actually first to market doesn't seem to matter much anymore.  It's first to follow up that usually does well.  In a lot of ways first to market is a disadvantage.  You put all the money and effort into R&D while the next guy just has to copy you and refine your idea.  You took the risk breaking new ground, the next guy just has to wait to see if you succeed.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    Developers haven't been taking many risks with MMORPGs lately.

    I think Tera and B&S offer quite unique combat systems, I'd mention GW2 but somehow that game was a complete wreck as a MMORPG. Archeage will be brining a lot of different endgame content, while being quite common MMORPG in every other way. FFXIV is a mmorpg genre of it's own but the latest wowization might go bit too far but I'm still excited about it.

    TESO is probably the next innovator in sense of taking everything popular from other MMORPGs, blending them with fun and intuitive combat system and a meaningful RvR.

    But I do think the industry has learned their lesson and the traditional MMORPG is a thing of the past, we'll see more in upcoming years.

    uh?

    Big financial risk to dump 200M into TOR to do voice overs, and it does not pan out.

    Big financial risk to link a tv show to a MMOFPS (defiance).

    Big risk to link a FPS to an existing MMO (Dust & Eve).

    If those are not risks, what are risks?

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