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Poll: MMO players versus TES fans

2

Comments

  • spookydomspookydom BristolPosts: 1,782Member Uncommon

    1 . Yes

    2. I think everybody wanted the same thing. Multi-player Skyrim.

    3. For the dev's clearly an mmorpg that taps into the TES fan base. Tor has shown us how badly this can go wrong if not done correctly.

    4. Yes

    5. Well it's kind of hard to judge that as both games are different genres. I would have to go with the TES games being superior to any mmorpg that has ever existed. Enjoyment wise I would have to go with mmo's.

    image

  • InktomiInktomi merrick, NYPosts: 663Member
    1. Do you think the developers changed the game to satisfy what they think "MMO players' want?
    Well, they have to. A SPRPG and an MMO are two totally different games, types of programming and slightly different business models. The key to a Single player is box sales and the "long tail" meaning sales taper off over time, but still sell. An MMO has to sell boxes and keep that "long tail" of people playing their game and continuing to spend money. Much like DLC for singles, but more expensive and no creation kit, so the developer is 100% for content.
    1. What do you think MMO players want versus what TES fans want?
    MMO players just want to have a social experience while TES fans want an immersive experience. It is sort of the same thing, except one is played with other people.
    1. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
    Making an MMO true to TES lore. The look and feel of a TES game is really dependant upon world building, NPC interaction and of course dungeon delving!
    1. Are you happy to see an Elder Scroll MMO?
    Heck yah!
    1. If you compared your favorite TES game to your favorite MMO, which do you think is the better game overall?
    No comparisons. All my TES games are so heavily modded that they are custom made for the experience I am seeking. In my latest Skyrim build I have to eat and drink every 10-15 mins. I have to sleep every night, keep warm and really think about my encounters. That is something I would wish for an MMO, but no one can really nail it. The TES modding community did, thats why I was given a chance to build my dream RPG from Skyrim.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Swiftrevoir
    TES is what you play when you're fed up with your current MMO and wish that your current MMO was as awesome as TES.  You just wish it could be massively online.  Perhaps we'll get our chance soon.

     TES is what you will play when you're fed up with TESO because you realized you are not playing TES, just DaoC 2 in a TES skin...then you can go back to wishing someone made a TES MMORPG.

    Now if only the company hired some of the people that made SWG instead of DaoC...then at least there would be a game being made that is at least a LITTLE more TES like...

     That would be a bad thing, we all know how SWG turned out, it died. DAoC is still going even though it is not like it was, but atleast it survived.

    SWG died when SOE decided to change the game, which oddly enough, is pretty much what happend to DAoC, and while DAoC might still be around, as far as the majority of players who left are concerned, its been dead for quite a long time, which is why when DAoC is mentioned its always in the past tense. image

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by MadnessRealm
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by sapphen
    1. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
    epeen war.

    3.  If a company announced a Sonic the Hedgehog MMORPG and it was nothing more than Sonic skins in World of Warcraft...what would you say as a Sonic fan about it being nothing at all like the game you love?

    I've always found this thinking starnge. It's like fans of Mario calling Mario Kart not a Mario game as it's not a platformer.

    The game mechanics do not define if a game is a Mario or a Elder Scrolls game. Bethesda could release an Elder Scrolls RTS, It would still be an Elder Scrolls game.

    The most important thing is if the game is fun.

    I think the difference with games like Mario is that from a very early stages we've been exposed to various spin-off of the Mario serie. Super Mario Bros, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Party, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, etc. It's sort of an accepted reality of the Nintendo games who've always been playing with various characters and making spin-off games along the lines (Yoshi's Story for example).

    However, what if Nintendo were to take Legend of Zelda and turn it into a Racing game. I think you'd have a very negative response from the fanbase simply because those are universes that don't exactly mix together. They've built a very strong IP (Legend of Zelda) based around a set of core features and mechanics that have not changed since the very first game (ignoring the games that were not made by Nintendo). Players would much rather have a new Zelda game that continues to improve on its core system rather than trash everything to make something entirely different.

    And this is what TESO is in a nutshell. The TES games have always been about freedom. The freedom to go where you want, be who you want, do what you want. Taking Skyrim as the most recent example, if I roll an Alfar, I'm not forced to join either factions (Empire vs. Stormcloaks), I can join the faction I want, or I can simply ignore it. The same goes for the skills we choose. You didn't have to select a class, you could pick whatever skills you wanted to focus on, yet you could still use the other skills as well.

    TESO forces you into a faction. Forces you to select a class. Forces you to be more or less part of the war. Unless I missed the update, TESO does not have Housing either.

    It's a TES game in name only. You could replace the TESO name by whatever other name you can think of and players would not even make the relation between that game and the TES games.

    My thoughts exactly. 

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I don't think there is a major different between the two groups - many MMO players are TES fans.

     

    After the poll feel free to answer some of the following questions or post your own comments;

    1. Do you think the developers changed the game to satisfy what they think "MMO players' want?
    2. What do you think MMO players want versus what TES fans want?
    3. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
    4. Are you happy to see an Elder Scroll MMO?
    5. If you compared your favorite TES game to your favorite MMO, which do you think is the better game overall?

    1. Yes.

    2. I think MMO only players want what they're used to (ie. a focus on raiding, dungeons, pvp, and crafting). I think MMO/TES fans want a multiplayer TES game. Meaning, all the game mechanics and features that define a TES game should be put into the MMO version.

    3. When using a popular IP with several games defining what constitutes what that series is, it's more important to stay true to the series. TESO has a lot of mechanics and features that TES games don't have to appeal to the MMO crowd.

    4. Yes, just not this one.

    5. I think the better game is my favorite MMORPG, and my favorite MMORPG is still better than how the developers are describing TESO.

  • SwiftrevoirSwiftrevoir Largo, FLPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Swiftrevoir
    TES is what you play when you're fed up with your current MMO and wish that your current MMO was as awesome as TES.  You just wish it could be massively online.  Perhaps we'll get our chance soon.

     TES is what you will play when you're fed up with TESO because you realized you are not playing TES, just DaoC 2 in a TES skin...then you can go back to wishing someone made a TES MMORPG.

    Now if only the company hired some of the people that made SWG instead of DaoC...then at least there would be a game being made that is at least a LITTLE more TES like...

    *shrug* DAoC was the best MMO I've played to date....back in those yonder days.  It was the first MMO to make me care about pvp at least.  And it set the stage for the best roleplaying I've had the honor of partaking in.  If they can get just a touch (or the whole kitten kaboodle) of the spirit of TES in a game modeled after DAoC then hell that's still a pretty decent outcome in my book.

  • mmoskimmoski plymouthPosts: 282Member
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I don't think there is a major different between the two groups - many MMO players are TES fans.

     

    After the poll feel free to answer some of the following questions or post your own comments;

    1. Do you think the developers changed the game to satisfy what they think "MMO players' want?
    2. What do you think MMO players want versus what TES fans want?
    3. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
    4. Are you happy to see an Elder Scroll MMO?
    5. If you compared your favorite TES game to your favorite MMO, which do you think is the better game overall?

    1. No, I think they "changed the game" to suit what mmo systems require, which is development functionality towards many players co existing on an equilibrium within an environment.

    2. Well TES fans want the TES experience, MMO fans (TES MMO fans I presume) want the same kind of experience retained from TES to carry over to the MMO.

    3. Well in this case it's the MMO portion, anything else could result in a broken mess, as a TES game is built for a single player experience.

    4. Meh, it's not really a TES MMO, it's a MMO with TES lore and looks.

    5. TES, simply because you get uncontrolled freedom.  (a very weak overall)

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    3.  If a company announced a Sonic the Hedgehog MMORPG and it was nothing more than Sonic skins in World of Warcraft...what would you say as a Sonic fan about it being nothing at all like the game you love?

    Considering that Sonic is a single player platformer, the translation would be pretty rocky. And on a side note, considering Sonic Team can barely even write a semi-decent story without flubbing it somehow, and their characters are underused and underdeveloped, the lore would be more barebones than a puff of air.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Primarily an MMO player but I do dabble in the rare single player game, msot notably of which is Elder Scrolls and RPG's and other genres which feature open ended  such as Farcry 3 and Just Cause 2.  But yea I only play TES games for their open ended world and freedom of exploration.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by sapphen
    1. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
    epeen war.

    3.  If a company announced a Sonic the Hedgehog MMORPG and it was nothing more than Sonic skins in World of Warcraft...what would you say as a Sonic fan about it being nothing at all like the game you love?

    I've always found this thinking starnge. It's like fans of Mario calling Mario Kart not a Mario game as it's not a platformer.

    The game mechanics do not define if a game is a Mario or a Elder Scrolls game. Bethesda could release an Elder Scrolls RTS, It would still be an Elder Scrolls game.

    The most important thing is if the game is fun.

     I've always found this thinking STRANGE. people giving examples thinking they are refuting when all they actually did was PROVE MY POINT.

    Mario and Mario Kart are NOT the same, they used Mario because without Mario...the game would be FAIL, they needed the popularity of another IP to sell the thing they were making because it wouldnt stand on its own. It was a piss poor example, using Mario, a side scroller and Mario Kart, a racing game as an example when talking about an RPG and an ONLINE RPG, two things that are basically the same.

    And yes, game mechanice DO define a game. Every single MAJOR IP can be identified by its game mechanics.

    Now ask me if I would be doing this if they were instead making a TES kart game...

    No. Thats like claiming WoW only succeded becuase of the name. It was only popular with the RTS crowd. Or if SWTOR was called WoW 2 it would of done immensley well.

    Mario and Mario kart are different games, but they are both Mario games. Like ES:Oblivion, Skyrim and ESO. They are different games but they are all ES games.

    I agree that IP's help sell games but in no way should a gaming franchise be dictated by it's gameplay mechanics. Why should developers be so narrow minded like that?

    Also an MMORPG and a Single player RPG are not the same.

    image
  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I don't think there is a major different between the two groups - many MMO players are TES fans.

     After the poll feel free to answer some of the following questions or post your own comments;

    1. Do you think the developers changed the game to satisfy what they think "MMO players' want?
    2. What do you think MMO players want versus what TES fans want?
    3. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
    4. Are you happy to see an Elder Scroll MMO?
    5. If you compared your favorite TES game to your favorite MMO, which do you think is the better game overall?

    I'm a MMO player only in that I haven't played any of the Elder Scroll games, so...

    1. Obviously yes.

    2. MMO players want standard MMO features such as quests that can be done in groups, PvP, raids, auction houses, cash shops, etc. It seems from what I read from TES fans here that what they want is basically a co-op version of Skyrim.

    3. If you're going to make an MMO based on a known IP, you have to pay a good bit of deference to that IP. But if it's not a fun MMO, the IP won't matter and even fans of the IP will stop playing it. So both are important.

    4. Since I'm not a fan of TES, I'm indifferent. I am pleased to see another company attempting to create an RvR system, so that has gotten me interested in the game.

    5. N/A

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon

    i love TES & I am mmorpg players

    ESO should to be sand box game,huge open world without class  limitations

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen

     They could've just made a multiplayer game of Skyrim and beat out most MMOs.  I think it was a serious misjudgement to think that TES needed MMO elements (ala DAoC).  TES has been redefining the RPG genre for years.

    This. But hey what do we know? We've only been playing these games for 10+ years...

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph

    i love TES & I am mmorpg players

    ESO should to be sand box game,huge open world without class  limitations

    Yes it should. But it isn't. And that's the end of this story.

     

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Sideras
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    3.  If a company announced a Sonic the Hedgehog MMORPG and it was nothing more than Sonic skins in World of Warcraft...what would you say as a Sonic fan about it being nothing at all like the game you love?

    If a company made a Sonic the Hedgehog kart racing game and it was nothing more than Sonic skins in Mario Kart... what would you say as a Sonic fan about it being nothing at all like the game you love?

    See what I did there? What part of "spin-off " don't you understand?

    Yeah but when they made the first mario game in 3d it was very similar to the side scrollers was it not?  MMO and RPG are very similar genres, many of the systems of TES would translate to a MMO (granted not all of them).

    This would be different if they was making a TES game from a totally different genre.

    So, what's your point?  The first attempt to expand TES should have been a multi-player game and not an MMO?  Personally, this game may, I say may have been better suited for a sandbox, but it obvious that is not the direction taken.  Oh we'll, don't like theme parks, don't play it.  I will give it a shot and judge it for what it is and not what I think it should be.  

    Personally, I kinda like the direction it's going.  I want to learn more about being the king, that could be a major disaster if done wrong.  If the players get to choose, then stand by for major grief.  I think I read somewhere that it was going to be decided by the effort each player puts into it, but I can't remember where I read that and I am too tired and lazy to look it up ATM.

    image
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Latronus

    So, what's your point?  The first attempt to expand TES should have been a multi-player game and not an MMO?  Personally, this game may, I say may have been better suited for a sandbox, but it obvious that is not the direction taken.  Oh we'll, don't like theme parks, don't play it.  I will give it a shot and judge it for what it is and not what I think it should be.  

    Personally, I kinda like the direction it's going.  I want to learn more about being the king, that could be a major disaster if done wrong.  If the players get to choose, then stand by for major grief.  I think I read somewhere that it was going to be decided by the effort each player puts into it, but I can't remember where I read that and I am too tired and lazy to look it up ATM.

    I like MMOs but I'm afraid that many players and developers have too many unnecessary expectations.  I think ESO would've been better if they tried to make a massive multiplayer online game in a persistent world.  I don't think a complete sandbox would've worked but rather a mixture of sandbox and themepark.  DAoC is cool and all but IMHO TES series is a far superior game and should've looked to set their own standards instead of trying to copy another MMO.

    I'm not sure how the emperor thing is going to work.  Unfortunately I think it's gonna be one of those things that looks better on paper than in creation.  It doesn't make sense to me considering that a Nord High King, Breton Merchant Lord and an High Elf Queen are fighting for rule. Only time will tell though.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Some from column A, none from column B.

    Hm, poll doesn't seem to cover that one.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Some from column A, none from column B.

    Hm, poll doesn't seem to cover that one.

    Not sure I understand?

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member

    I'm both an mmo fan and I've been playing tes games since morrowind

    1. Do you think the developers changed the game to satisfy what they think "MMO players' want?

    To some extent of course, they had to, but they have kept the combat (its oblivion with an added hotbar), content based on exploration and the class system is open enough for it to still feel like a tes game

    2. What do you think MMO players want versus what TES fans want?

    I dont think theyre mutually exclusive tbh, there are some compromises on both sides tho, for instance I dont think the normal tab target, cd based combat would cut it for people who have only played tes and not mmo's and being able to move every object and kill every npc wouldnt work well at all in an mmo

    3. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?

    Neither/both

    4. Are you happy to see an Elder Scroll MMO?

    Verry much so yes

    5. If you compared your favorite TES game to your favorite MMO, which do you think is the better game overall?

    Not a fair question tbh, its only recently that mmo's are starting to become "good games", that has been the trade off for playing with thousands of other people at the same time (due to tech limitations), if you take away the online element from most mmo's what you are left with is a very outdated/basic rpg, so as just a "game" mmo's suck in comparison, however because of the social aspect in mmo's, i've spent far more hours in mmos than i have in a tes game (or any single player game for that matter)

  • VrikaVrika FinlandPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon
     
    1. Do you think the developers changed the game to satisfy what they think "MMO players' want?
     
    Changed as in changed from what? I was under impression that they've been creating it from nothing, not changing any pre-existing game.
     
    2. What do you think MMO players want versus what TES fans want?
     
    Play. I think MMO players and TES players are both so diverse groups with so many subgrous one could find, that the question is unfair. With so much diversity it's not possible to give a good answer about what either of the groups want.
     
    3. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
     
    In the case of Elder Scrolls MMO, I think designing a MMO and making an Elde Scroll game are the same thing.
     
    4. Are you happy to see an Elder Scroll MMO?
     
    Yes
     
    5. If you compared your favorite TES game to your favorite MMO, which do you think is the better game overall?
     
    Both are incredibly awesome games. The question is like asking whether the best apple I've seen in better fruit than the best orange I've seen.
     
     

     

  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member

    I've played the mainline TES RPGs since good 'ol MS-DOS bound "Daggerfall."  I do still remember the longtime dream of multiplayer TES RPGs among the fanbase.  Several mod teams have tried since Morrowind's heyday to bring multiplayer to the fold, but AFAIK, none have worked out.  Still, that dream has recurred in attempts on later titles like Oblivion and even Skyrim.

    The dream of TES RPGs like Morrowind and such that is capable in multiplayer or even an MMORPG format has been out there a long time.  Remember, Morrowind came out in 2002, and MMORPGs were still fresh off titles like EQ, UO, and the newer crop of titles hitting within the next year or two.

    The basic "dream" was:  TES RPG + Multiplayer = Holy Grail

    The idea was to take core TES gameplay elements and be able to play with friends online, or better yet, in a world with lots of other people (MMORPG style).  When you really get down to it, TES RPGs are all about freedom.   Total freedom in travel and exploration.  Freedom in character development.  Freedom to do what you want to do.

    When the initial news of ESO came out, I was ecstatic.  A professional development team working on what we've dreamed on!

    I hop onto several boards I frequent and I was actually surprised by fellow TES fans, especially the longtime ones going back to Morrowind or before, not being happy with the ESO anouncement.  In short without repeating everything out there, the MMO simply would not replicate or bring the feel of freedom of the traditional SPRPG TES titles.

    Personally, I thought that a proper TES game in MMORPG format was still doable.  I knew compromises had to be made for the transition, but as long as the developers maintained player freedom of action and character development, and a good, interactive world, then we'd still be good.

    However, when more details of ESO came out, I began to have a much lower opinion of it.  The final nail in the coffin for me with this game was going with the completely non-TES staple of Class + Level System.  Even worse, along the lines of the dreaded Trinity style of class functions.

    You see, for me, the freedoms given to players in TES RPGs is what seperates them from alot of RPGs and most definitely from the vast majority of MMORPGs.  Personally, the setting for TES / Tamriel is actually very, very generic.  But the free reign of play Bethesda gives players is what sets it aside from the competition.  Even more so when copared with the very heavily structured and funneled gameplay of most MMORPGs today.

    These MMO developers have adopted a design that goes completely against what a loyal Elder Scrolls fanbase had been about.  Instead of catering to something that has long been dreamed of by TES fans, who like me had money at the ready, they cater to a different mass altogether.  They take the very defining feature of TES RPGs, freedom, and now they have left a generic fantasy setting in my eyes.

    The only saving grace, the one thing I am still quite thankful to the Gaming Gods for, was that Bethesda was not the developer for this title.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    I only play mmorpgs, I've never played an Elder Scrolls game.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon
    1. Since MMO players are a diverse group of people with varying tastes, no, the devs set out to make a TES MMO in whatever vision they came up with.
    2. Again, can't really just blanket statement MMO players in here.  The genre calls for certain staples to be met: multiplayer content, large world(s)/zones, tons of progression, the rest is again up to the dev team for what they want their game to be.
    3. Neither, they picked the genre and the IP so now both need to be on par, not one better than the other.
    4. Yes.
    5. For me MMOs will always be better than any single player game, it's just what I prefer.
    image
  • fs23otmfs23otm Winter Haven, FLPosts: 293Member Uncommon

    I voted Both.

    • Do you think the developers changed the game to satisfy what they think "MMO players' want? They developed a strategy to make a working, functional MMO. THere are things you do in Single Player games that will NEVER work in a Multiplayer Enviroment.
    • What do you think MMO players want versus what TES fans want?
    • MMO players want a functioning balanced MMO....TES players want a Single Player game with multiple players. 
    • What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
    • For ESO, it is designing an MMO. 
    • Are you happy to see an Elder Scroll MMO?
    • Yes.
    • If you compared your favorite TES game to your favorite MMO, which do you think is the better game overall? The best TES game was Daggerfall. The best MMO was EQ. Social interaction in a game always makes it better, because without it you are just playing with yourself.

       

     

  • uncletomauncletoma Santa Margherita LigurePosts: 159Member
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I don't think there is a major different between the two groups - many MMO players are TES fans.

     

    After the poll feel free to answer some of the following questions or post your own comments;

    1. Do you think the developers changed the game to satisfy what they think "MMO players' want?
    2. What do you think MMO players want versus what TES fans want?
    3. What is more important;  designing a MMO or making an Elder Scroll game?
    4. Are you happy to see an Elder Scroll MMO?
    5. If you compared your favorite TES game to your favorite MMO, which do you think is the better game overall?

    1) Well, i hope that developers can make a damned good game, other things are only trivia. But...

    2) Tons of stupid dungeons, hopefully to do only with mates. And i think that WoW-addicted and brainless can hate public dungeons (DAOC-style). PvP? Can i eat it?

    3) Both: designing a great MMO (after all TESO is a MMORPG) with the great TES lore. But, after viewing something on youtube and reading interviews and articles, i think that programmers are completely raping TES lore and backgrund

    4) I'm happy if TESO will be not another crap WoW clone. MMO plaers neeed something really new and not c&p videogames

    5) No answer, 've no played yet Skyrim (i'm playing Morrowind ATM). BTW for me there are only two great MMO (i never play all MMO, i'm a social person with passions and work): UO and DAOC (except ToA). BTW the crappest games are, for me, Oblivion and Word of Warcraft (for its impact on MMO market)

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