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Minecraft makes fools of MMO companies

TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless ColumnistM, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

So much time, money, and energy goes into filling the MMORPG game world with content, but the reality is (and Minecraft proves this) no matter how good the team, if you let the players build it the results will surpass your greatest expectations. I believe the old saying is do not teach a person to use a tool, give them the tool and be surprised by their innovation in using it. So MMORPG companies, when will you give us the empty world and the tools and turn us loose to make the greatest MMORPG of all time?

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Comments

  • minecraft also looks like an un-fun version of some backshelf b-title from the 20's.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    MInecraft works when you can control who you let play with your world.

    In an MMO everyone will be playing in your world, my world.  A completely different beast.

    I would very much like an MMO where I could make anything.  I would really hate an MMO where others could destroy what I created. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    I think Minecraft works the same way Tetris worked.

    You create things, you destroy them. Simple but addictive concept. That's why their graphics can look like 10x10 pixel images blown up to 50x50 pixel size and it feels campy along with their bouncy creature behavior, they let it feel like a game instead of having to be ultra-realistic oooo this looks like the real world, Jim. Their ability to modify is really where they shine. The majority of Yogscast videos on Minecraft are them playing some mod. They have been making videos on that game for years.

    Three simple things really, build it, break it, tweak it. What "it" is doesn't matter. It can be squares on top of squares on top of squares... times infinity. Worked for Tetris, works for Minecraft.

  • MageickMageick Daytona Beach, FLPosts: 103Member

    I always go back to thinking of UO. For me it was the best because the design was simple and gave alot of power to the player. The developers only need to give so much and then let the player play, I always felt the best MMO would just be a 'world' players inhabited, having a common enemy to create bonds as a whole community and just enough direction to get the ball rolling but never holding the player's hand, and really creating that adventure feeling giving the player the sense of really being involved in the world.

    Maybe this is a dead type of MMO but I want a MMO that is at its core a bunch of creation tools, I wanna build shops and taverns, run them, make the commodities in them. I want countless live events to make the world feel like it really alive  not scripted, replayable ones. I want to be able to make my character into anything, complete freedom,I don't want to have to roll a bunch of alts to have different play styles.

    I want to be a functioning part of the world not have the world just exist no matter who goes through it.

    While I am sure alot of people don't feel this way, PVP should not be a main feature, I don't want another e-sport.

     

  • imaginaimagina AmpsinPosts: 104Member

    It's the perfect sandbox where you can litterally transform anything and everything around you, it wouldn't fit an mmo as other players would mess with everything and crash the server leaving ressource eating complex things running all the time, many minecraft / tekkit servers hardly cope when more than 50 / 60 players are connected and let's say 50 % of them are using redstone complex schemes to farm things, so don't even think about getting that level of transformation and interactivity with the world to a "mmo" scale, it's impossible.

    But i would like to see a more advanced / realistic version of that kind of sandbox, kinda tired of those old cheap graphics, time for the next level.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon

    wurm and xyson is about the closest thing to minecraft i can think of but do a google of blockscape its in alpha but i think you will be pretty impressed.

    On another note what maks minecraft stand the test of time is the mods the community comes up with and with the new mod api coming up next update its going to be even better. But i doubt i would still be playing minecraft if it wasnt for the amazing survival mods the community releases as no matter what hard mode you put it on and permadeath once you build a house and a wall the game pretty much becomes super easy mode.

  • GishgeronGishgeron Princeton, KYPosts: 1,287Member
    Originally posted by cronius77

    wurm and xyson is about the closest thing to minecraft i can think of but do a google of blockscape its in alpha but i think you will be pretty impressed.

    On another note what maks minecraft stand the test of time is the mods the community comes up with and with the new mod api coming up next update its going to be even better. But i doubt i would still be playing minecraft if it wasnt for the amazing survival mods the community releases as no matter what hard mode you put it on and permadeath once you build a house and a wall the game pretty much becomes super easy mode.

     

      Far less "easy mode" when I can come in and smash your house and wall and pour lava over everything you love and own.  Suddenly intricate redstone configurations because vital and player vigilance begins to matter.  Not that I want to attack you on your points, they are great and I've wanted to try wurm for awhile.  But I do want to reinforce the ideal that Minecraft hasn't made fools of anybody.  Its not an MMO for a reason.  It doesn't work as one.  Our genre is plagued by its own lifeblood, massive players online.  What you can and cannot do changes when that happens.  Things you do now drive a wedge between your players that a single player game, or limited multiplayer game, wouldn't drive there.

      I get the point the OP wants to make.  Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules and you'll have a longer lifespan.  Mostly true.  But its easy to forget that this market didn't become themepark central for no reason.  The design core of these games is in conflict with itself, and there not a cure-all for it.

    image

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    ya I mean people say the same thing about dayz.  How did warz turned out?  cross my finger and hope they turn out great but they still got a long way to go.

    And it is very different when 1 person is creating the world compare to 1 million lunaitc, griefer, and people who just want to annoy the hell out of everyone.

    Can all the people playing second life group together and make 1 virtual world?  I dont' think so.  That is why everyone is just giving a block to do their thing.  You can't just fit them together in to 1 world.

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,552Member Uncommon
    I like Minecraft's concept but not their graphics or cost.  I do consider them one of the major games of mmo history.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    So much time, money, and energy goes into filling the MMORPG game world with content, but the reality is (and Minecraft proves this) no matter how good the team, if you let the players build it the results will surpass your greatest expectations. I believe the old saying is do not teach a person to use a tool, give them the tool and be surprised by their innovation in using it. So MMORPG companies, when will you give us the empty world and the tools and turn us loose to make the greatest MMORPG of all time?

    That's why games like Neverwinter Nights made by Blizzard was made of genius and had such popularity, it really let people create the environment they wanted for the type of players they wanted to play with, also probably the only platform that made rp centric "mmo" possible. Online gaming is at it's enfancy, don't forget broadband became popular only in 2k. Sandbox dev will get this one day and create games that are not greifer paradise, they just need time and experience to make it work.

  • mmoskimmoski plymouthPosts: 282Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    I believe the old saying is do not teach a person to use a tool, give them the tool and be surprised by their innovation in using it. So MMORPG companies, when will you give us the empty world and the tools and turn us loose to make the greatest MMORPG of all time?

    This is an exponential goal, of course there needs to be limitation systems in place that provide security/sanctuary to assets created by players, allowing the players to define what can be manipulated by other players, but that's simple to define. And yes every additional function that allows players to be creative is a god send to gamers.

    Second life provides a lot of this, but is unconstrained, what happens in a system like that is lack of definition to provide creative freedom. This is fine for second life, but clear definition of genre would be better for individual games genres.

  • mmoskimmoski plymouthPosts: 282Member
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    I like Minecraft's concept but not their graphics or cost.  I do consider them one of the major games of mmo history.

    I do agree that the graphics are raw, but, I don't think many people understand what minecraft is, I'm not sure even Notch does, minecraft is V 1.0 of point cloud data manipulation.

    If I have 4 points I can make a square, if I have unlimited points I can make any object I choose to with infinite detail. More games like minecraft will be made, imagine the current version is (4 points of graphics fidelity), imagine each next version doubles the number of points, and doubles the fidelity.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,752Member Uncommon
    I really have no idea how Minecraft succeeded at all....To me that game is about as boring as it gets.....I'd rather play Pong than that.
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Minecraft makes enough of a fool out of itself, I wouldn't worry too much about MMO companies.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    So much time, money, and energy goes into filling the MMORPG game world with content, but the reality is (and Minecraft proves this) no matter how good the team, if you let the players build it the results will surpass your greatest expectations. I believe the old saying is do not teach a person to use a tool, give them the tool and be surprised by their innovation in using it. So MMORPG companies, when will you give us the empty world and the tools and turn us loose to make the greatest MMORPG of all time?

     

    Yes... a blank empty world with the tools to make it what we want is exactly the type of (true) sandbox I would love to play.

    I take it that you are supporting a game like Xyson though and showing the big Devs that there is a market for this type of game?

    Because if not, and you are just posting on forums yearning for one... well... it 'aint gonna happen.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    You can't just let player do what they want, it would create chaos, in a sandbox mmo just like the real world there needs to be laws and penalties for breaking those laws. Otherwise people can just fuck your shit up without any consequences.
  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    You can't just let player do what they want, it would create chaos, in a sandbox mmo just like the real world there needs to be laws and penalties for breaking those laws. Otherwise people can just fuck your shit up without any consequences.

    There does need to be some basic laws or game mechanics in place to help control the chaos but i mean basic..

     

  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member


    Originally posted by Requiamer

    That's why games like Neverwinter Nights made by Blizzard was made of genius and had such popularity ...


    Very funny. :)

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Minecraft makes enough of a fool out of itself, I wouldn't worry too much about MMO companies.

    Yeah. That's why some 4 million people have bought it and Markus Persson is laughing his ass off looking at the fool of a game he created.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,459Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gishgeron

     

      Far less "easy mode" when I can come in and smash your house and wall and pour lava over everything you love and own.  Suddenly intricate redstone configurations because vital and player vigilance begins to matter.  Not that I want to attack you on your points, they are great and I've wanted to try wurm for awhile.  But I do want to reinforce the ideal that Minecraft hasn't made fools of anybody.  Its not an MMO for a reason.  It doesn't work as one.  Our genre is plagued by its own lifeblood, massive players online.  What you can and cannot do changes when that happens.  Things you do now drive a wedge between your players that a single player game, or limited multiplayer game, wouldn't drive there.

      I get the point the OP wants to make.  Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules and you'll have a longer lifespan.  Mostly true.  But its easy to forget that this market didn't become themepark central for no reason.  The design core of these games is in conflict with itself, and there not a cure-all for it.

    Great post, I agree. Especially the highlighted part.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Minecraft makes enough of a fool out of itself, I wouldn't worry too much about MMO companies.

    Yeah. That's why some 4 million people have bought it and Markus Persson is laughing his ass off looking at the fool of a game he created.

     

    I didn't say it wasn't successful, just that it's a joke all in itself. I have devoted several hours to playing it, and I wasn't impressed personally. I know people that love it, real life friends even. But to me, the game is a joke, whether it made money or not. GW2 made money, but that doesn't make it a good game, same for a lot of other MMO's that have come out recently.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    So what if 4 million people play it, whats the deal with humans clinging to this flock like mentality..the only answer you get is oh 9 million play it they can't be wrong. Yes 9 million people can be wrong, i know an organization were 1 billion people are wrong.
  • AnthurAnthur StolbergPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    Minecraft is a game with rudimentary graphics which gives you every freedom as a hunter, gatherer, builder in it's world.

    MMOs are games with bad to good graphics which restrict what you are allowed to hunt and gather and most of the time totally prohibit any building.

    Unfortunately many MMO companies (and all AAAs) start with the graphics ("look what great gfx we have here") and totally neglect the other features. Just for shiny graphics. The depressing part is, it is our fault. First comment you see about each new game is "graphics suck/are great".

    Would be interesting to see a MMO developer who starts with the features he wants to realize in his MMO and build his graphics on top of that. But no, it must be more shadows, more polygons, more textures and less freedom for the player. How boring is paradise if you can't do anything in it ?

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Anthur

    Minecraft is a game with rudimentary graphics which gives you every freedom as a hunter, gatherer, builder in it's world.

    MMOs are games with bad to good graphics which restrict what you are allowed to hunt and gather and most of the time totally prohibit any building.

    Unfortunately many MMO companies (and all AAAs) start with the graphics ("look what great gfx we have here") and totally neglect the other features. Just for shiny graphics. The depressing part is, it is our fault. First comment you see about each new game is "graphics suck/are great".

    Would be interesting to see a MMO developer who starts with the features he wants to realize in his MMO and build his graphics on top of that. But no, it must be more shadows, more polygons, more textures and less freedom for the player. How boring is paradise if you can't do anything in it ?

    In my experience, not saying for fact, but what I think the reason for graphics being a hot topic among MMO's is because MMO's generally lag 5ish years behind other games and graphics, and when you see a new shiny game you think "Wow! This looks almost as good as (Insert crappy FPS here)". So it becomes a hot topic immediately.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    So what if 4 million people play it, whats the deal with humans clinging to this flock like mentality..the only answer you get is oh 9 million play it they can't be wrong. Yes 9 million people can be wrong, i know an organization were 1 billion people are wrong.

    The Bandwagon Fallacy is very popular 'round these parts.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

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