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WHYYYY LEVELS WHYYYY

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  • PsychoPigeonPsychoPigeon UnkownPosts: 565Member
    What difference does it make if you level up a skill or your character? Levels are levels. If you were expecting a MMOFPS where you can jump in without doing anything then this isn't the game at all.
  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by cwliias
    ... When i heard the words... "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"... I cried a little... Am i over reacting and if so why and how in the hell is that not going to ruin this game... seriously... player lvls in a ES game... Sounds like a joke to me.

    Skyrim has player levels.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by NL-Rikkert

    As much as it takes away the essence of what TES stands for, it is likely there so high lvl people don't have the option to give lvl 1 players the best gear and thus breaking the game for lower lvl players.

    Curious where this is going to end, thus far it seems to be just another MMO instead of a true extention of the TES series. (sadface)

    The elder scrolls games have player levels, so really what point are you trying to make?

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor
    Do we know yet if ESO will have a conventional earn XP/gain levels model of progression like every other MMO or will it be more like other ES games?

    yes it does and tiers of pve gear grind as well.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member
    Originally posted by PsychoPigeon
    What difference does it make if you level up a skill or your character? Levels are levels. If you were expecting a MMOFPS where you can jump in without doing anything then this isn't the game at all.

    I can't tell the difference either. Even in skill point games you have to be at a certain skill level to take on the higher end stuff. This is really a semantic argument. 

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • drebiandrebian San Diego, CAPosts: 28Member

    Yes ESO will have levels. Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim (oh look all of the TES games) have levels.

    In the video they state that the game really takes off at level 50. Unless I missed something that's subliminal messaging, nowhere did they say that level 50 is max level. According to the developer information they have on the site, they have not established max level yet.

    Nowhere in the information that is out does it claim that there will be any form of pve gear grind. Based on the information they have provided, any class can equip any armor or weapon, just as in TES games. Does that mean you will be skilled with said armor and weapon? Nope.

    As far as the complaint about their being an epic storyline, how is this different from any of the other Elder Scrolls games? Just because you can ignore this storyline, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If they keep with TES tradition, you can ignore ESO's epic storyline and level by doing side quests.

    While I am disappointed with the prospect of going over to an experience based system in ESO, I understand the need to do so since it will be an MMO. Furthermore, they have not mentioned anything on character progression. It could be skill based, could be experience based, or a mixture of the two. WE DON'T KNOW YET!

    Please feel free to correct me, with evidence, if I am wrong on these matters. If you are unable to do so, please stop speculating and hating a game that's not even in Beta testing yet based on those speculations.

  • GishgeronGishgeron Princeton, KYPosts: 1,287Member

      Considering that the unlocks for weapon skills and abilities come from leveling the specific weapon and not the base character level, I don't see the issue here.  It basically sounds like a reword of Skyrim.  A level 30 character had more HP/Sta/MP, in some variation.  But thats it.  What defined him beyond that was where his skill levels were at and which perks that allowed them to take.  100 level 30 characters would be nothing alike.  I know, because I have 3 30+ toons on Skyrim.  Frankly, crafting was where that game was at.

      Nothing to see here.  Just some posters grasping at one written line without regard to the other 1000 lines there to provide context. 

      One more thing, however.....

      I noticed one poster saying that, just because its an MMO, does not mean it can't be JUST LIKE SKYRIM.  That is a pretty silly thing to say.  Skyrim is tracking one thing, you.  An MMO is doing more things while you walk from one house to the next than any single player game does over an hour of play.  There are certain strains those things put on a game engine.  If a developer wants the game to sell to as many people as they can, they have to make these games with certain things in mind.  Things like lower end systems.  Its a large part of the reason tab targetting even still exists.  It removes the need for a physics engine to handle hit detection and projectile movement.  Can those things BE in a an MMO?  Certainly, but doing so means accept that system burden and the consequences of it.  The smaller scale you make your game, the less of an issue these things provide.  The larger you make it, the worse it gets.  This is why a game like PS2 is such a massive hog on your resources.  Many games that choose to use a more combat heavy, real time flow system in their games ALSO tend to lean toward more instancing to cut down on the number of possible player interactions (object interactions) taking place at one time.

      In short, the more massive you want your multiplayer the less reliance you want on your physics and object interaction.  Its that or shut the door on millions of potential sales.  Pretty cut and dry, it is.

    image

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by drebian

    ...

    Please feel free to correct me, with evidence, if I am wrong on these matters. If you are unable to do so, please stop speculating and hating a game that's not even in Beta testing yet based on those speculations.

    You really expect anyone here to do this?  They would rather bitch because it isn't a sandbox and if it were, they would cry because the screen isn't full of chat bubbles or there may be chair somewhere that they can't sit in for hours on end and feel special.  It's more fun to trash a game then do either of the things you are asking for.

    image
  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,141Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cwliias
    ... When i heard the words... "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"... I cried a little... Am i over reacting and if so why and how in the hell is that not going to ruin this game... seriously... player lvls in a ES game... Sounds like a joke to me.

    To me leveling is BEST part of playing. And have no problem with distinct roles. This is also most natural thing. Nobody can be (in real life) good surgeon and good commando at same time. So ....

    Otherwise looking forward TESO with great expectations.

  • TithenonTithenon Fountain, COPosts: 109Member

    While I agree that levels are now passe, and that a better system of individual skill, ability, and attribute increases should be used, all of the Elder Scrolls games have used levels, character, item, ability, whatever.  These have not been traditional, however, and I don't believe they will be traditional in ESO, either.  Most games have you grind out XP, and THEN you level and get access to additional skills, abilities, etc., while the Elder Scrolls games have, before, used a system of individual skills and abilities leveling on their own and, when you have enough levels for the individual items, then you move upward in level and continue with skills and abilities.  The passive increases model they have used in the past I have found to be far more rewarding than purchasing skills, abilities, and attribute increases, and I don't have to go to a trainer for those.

     

    Hopefully, ESO is going with the same system used in previous Elder Scrolls games, as passive increases through use makes a lot more sense, and allows one to build a character they want to build, rather than one directed solely by the game.

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member
    The AAA developers spit in your mouth and you beg for more. "Mmmmmm Loogies! Thank you my benevolent masters!"

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Levels are an integral part of RPG and MMOs. It's why the game works. Take away levels and you have some god awful amalgamation of a MOBA MMO/RPG where nothing matters and fights are decided on who has the best macro ability. I would suggest anyone tired of leveling in video games, take a break, play a game that doesn't have levels. You'll feel better when you come back. It just sounds like you are tired of the genre is all.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • FallguyArmyFallguyArmy Davenport, FLPosts: 80Member

    Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

     

    "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

     

    If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

  • drgrandrgran Guelph, ONPosts: 192Member Uncommon

    I just hope they have a system in where you have to level skill a sword instead of picking it up and instant expert on it.

    WoW had that sort of thing when they first came out. you leveled all weapons. if you picked up something you had to level it up to get the skill.

    Same could happen with everything else. Did affect the actual Character level but affected how strong you could be with a weapon, or not.

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  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by FallguyArmy

    Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

     

    "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

     

    If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

    That's pretty much every MMO, ever. Why do people come to MMORPG.com if they are fed up with MMO's and how they function? I just don't even know anymore.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • FallguyArmyFallguyArmy Davenport, FLPosts: 80Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by FallguyArmy

    Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

     

    "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

     

    If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

    That's pretty much every MMO, ever. Why do people come to MMORPG.com if they are fed up with MMO's and how they function? I just don't even know anymore.

    I don't know either. It seems like developers aren't taking risks to do anything new or are just being lazy, while gamers are just being gullible and feeding (money) to the same crap over and over again. 

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    I don't really mind the levels, since with the end game pvp, it seems there's more to do that sounds similar to DAOC Realm Ranks.

    image

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  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by FallguyArmy
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by FallguyArmy

    Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

     

    "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

     

    If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

    That's pretty much every MMO, ever. Why do people come to MMORPG.com if they are fed up with MMO's and how they function? I just don't even know anymore.

    I don't know either. It seems like developers aren't taking risks to do anything new or are just being lazy, while gamers are just being gullible and feeding (money) to the same crap over and over again. 

    Developers have taken plenty of risks, look at the oversatured MMO market, and most of the unique ones with "new ideas" have gone the way of the dodo, for good reasons. Innovation is one thing, but trying to remake a genre is waste of time and effort. If people want a single player rpg experience, play one.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • FallguyArmyFallguyArmy Davenport, FLPosts: 80Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by FallguyArmy
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by FallguyArmy

    Look, the previous TES games also had levels. But the issue is not with the levels. The issue is with this statement:

     

    "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"...

     

    If you guys don't see what's wrong with that then, I'm sorry, there's no helping you.

    That's pretty much every MMO, ever. Why do people come to MMORPG.com if they are fed up with MMO's and how they function? I just don't even know anymore.

    I don't know either. It seems like developers aren't taking risks to do anything new or are just being lazy, while gamers are just being gullible and feeding (money) to the same crap over and over again. 

    Developers have taken plenty of risks, look at the oversatured MMO market, and most of the unique ones with "new ideas" have gone the way of the dodo, for good reasons. Innovation is one thing, but trying to remake a genre is waste of time and effort. If people want a single player rpg experience, play one.

    Risks leading to oversaturated MMO market? Hardly. If they took risks then we would definitely have more notable games to talk about. Many games have turned out to be "WoW" clones instead. As annoying as that phrase sounds, there's some truth behind it. It also seems like the developers are just trying to one-up each other with a feature or two to grab people's attention in hopes to get a piece of the pie. There's no risk involved. People are trying to go the easy way out. Sadly, the fault also goes to the gaming communities that buy into all of this.

     

    The same can be said for single-player games as well, though I have to admit thankfully some of the ideas are much easier to implement in a single-player game than it is in an MMORPG. On that note, my friends and I have recently returned to playing some single-player titles because we're just disillusioned by the downhill trend that MMORPGs have fallen into. And we've played MMOs for almost 10 years mind you, so hardly considered as newbies.

     

    TL;DR - Right now, it seems like the genre is all about quantity and no longer about quality.

     

    Also you said that "trying to remake a genre is waste of time and effort". That's something a man would say when he's given up. Maybe I'm a bit more optimistic than most, but I believe that remaking a genre is not a waste of time and effort, and in fact, it's probably needed even more so nowadays seeing how stale and stagnant the MMO market has become. 

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MyTabbycat

    You really should listen to the interview with Paul Sage as he touches on this some.

    Yes, you level up with experience. Once you hit level 50, you will stop leveling but you are only about 1/3rd of the way finished with progressing your character.

    Every weapon you use, every piece of armor you wear etc has its own leveling. As you use it, you become more proficient and unlock new abilities. When you are level 50, you continue to work on your skills to unlock new abilities to make your character more versatile. The more versatile your character, the more you are able to adapt to and handle different situations in the game.

    This is all that needs to be said really.

    Its going to have both!

    image

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,141Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Levels are an integral part of RPG and MMOs. It's why the game works. Take away levels and you have some god awful amalgamation of a MOBA MMO/RPG where nothing matters and fights are decided on who has the best macro ability. I would suggest anyone tired of leveling in video games, take a break, play a game that doesn't have levels. You'll feel better when you come back. It just sounds like you are tired of the genre is all.

    Exactly. And not only. Never heard about level-less game. What would that be? There are ALWAYS levels, does not matter if we call them "levels", "skills", ... or whatever you like under the sun. Always. And there will always be classes. Does not matter if you must select at start or change later "build". As altholic I do not care. Love that.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    What? Previous ES games have levels too.

     With SCALEABLE content, not with railed zones.

    No amount of talking is going to change the fact that this is nothing more than DaoC 2 with TES skins because few give a rats behind about another DaoC game, so they are hoping they can get more people to play it just because it has the TES name.

    Smacks of pure brilliance to take old outdated used up MMORPG designs that companies stopped using due to new ideas and then taking a beloved IP in hopes its popularity will mask its blandness. This is so lacking in TES even the damn ELVES WERE CHANGED, where are the dang ALIEN looking ugly arse elves?

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Who said the game had railed zones?

    Daoc didn't for a start.
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    What? Previous ES games have levels too.

     With SCALEABLE content, not with railed zones.

    No amount of talking is going to change the fact that this is nothing more than DaoC 2 with TES skins because few give a rats behind about another DaoC game, so they are hoping they can get more people to play it just because it has the TES name.

    Smacks of pure brilliance to take old outdated used up MMORPG designs that companies stopped using due to new ideas and then taking a beloved IP in hopes its popularity will mask its blandness. This is so lacking in TES even the damn ELVES WERE CHANGED, where are the dang ALIEN looking ugly arse elves?

    BROAD GENERALIZATIONS! CAPITALS TO EMPHASIZE NON VALID POINTS! NOBODY WANTS IT BECAUSE I DON'T!

    Just go play Skyrim, you won't be happy with ESO no matter how it turns out, because it's an MMO, and I guess that genre is used up. Not trying to fling crap, but at this point it's just opinion vs opinion, facts were abandoned upon login to this website.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Also yay for new ideas like arena.

    I would much rather play a daoc 2 than yet another bloody wow clone.
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