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Race/Faction Seperation will ruin the game for me...

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  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by cronius77

    i can agree with you on the fact that the races could use better grouping as some of them you can wonder why they would be in an alliance but at the same time Im willing to give the devs the benefit of the doubt and play the game how they want it to be played. One of the stupidiest things about Rift IMO is how they would just break their lore later on in the game and allow defiant and guardians into a group together and guilds raids pvp etc.

    I like faction based pvp myself like DAOC and warhammer had because there was realm pride , even in warhammer until they opened up playing on the same realms. I felt a reason to fight lore wise and while some races in the elder scrolls doesnt exactly go with morrowind or skyrim lore at least if they write up something decent I can accept it as realm pride and fight for that realm.  TESO devs are not stupid they see what is wrong with guild wars 2 pvp system and other games and Im sure they are just trying to make the game not have the same short comings as other games like GW2 etc. Maybe im just trying to remain positive but if I get a skyrim like combat system and open world full of exploration with a DAOC end game I will be very happy myself regardless of what faction I pick. I think people should just mellow out and wait and see how they do it. What if there is awesome stories written behind it all in game later on?

    There is no reason why they couldn't accomplish similar goals without locking races to factions.  It is a common MMO stereotype that all races would belong to one faction.  During this era the races barely got along with themselves.

    From the way it sounds already though they would have to rewrite a lot of stuff from the begining. They said there is a questline to join the old faction guilds already and it happens later in the game. All I can really say is if you feel that strongly about it just be on their forums the day they open and voice your opinion.

  • slobkingslobking Ashaway, RIPosts: 4Member

    So let's get some things straight that people are failing to realize. For one they stated you can travel into enemy faction zones however it will be WoW style in which if you walk to Aldmeri zone with a Nord they will hunt to kill you. For two the pvp zone isn't forced in any sense, however there is things that will only be available to the pvp zone. First off you can't be emperor without participating in PvP. So yes if you care about being emperor of Tamriel (which gives you PvP buffs and rewards.) then yes you have to participate in PvP. Now assuming you don't care about the PvP related benefits to being emperor which requires PvP what other benefits does the PvP zone offer? For one it offers a classic system that dates back to EverQuest of which many of you, I assume don't remember.  Public Dungeons, but on a totally new level. These public dungeons will be multiple raid groups of people fighting for the same boss which very well could be from different factions. Now if you are a care bear this obviously isn't the place for you because opposite faction raid groups can kill you to claim the boss for themselves. Yes this has been confirmed to be the best gear raids in the game and if you care about min/maxing you will have to go there. Otherwise the +10 bonus dmg on hit compared to your 1000 dmg a hit already isn't going to make a huge difference and you don't have to enter the pvp zone. With that being said there has been confirmed non pvp based quests inside the pvp zone for the carebear pve fans who want to still help their faction obtain the ruby throne. Grabbing a quest from the quartermaster of the EbonHeart pact to go kill some villagers in the local town owned by the elven scum is a quest that chances are you won't encounter much pvp when doing and therefore don't have to whine about.

    Now onto my biggest pet peave with people talking about the race locked factions. For one the Aldmeri Dominion would never allow anyone besides the Elves and the Khaijit in under any circumstances. So if you were to get to choose your faction you wouldn't be allowed to join that faction which would cause all sorts of other issues that the developers would have to deal with.  On a side note as far as I understand there will be only one server split into many phases however the phases will never be a pure pve phase which no pvp can occour in. So for anyone that doesn't want to play the game because of pvp and won't pick it up till it gets a pve only server like DAoC don't hold your breath.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by slobking

    So let's get some things straight that people are failing to realize. For one they stated you can travel into enemy faction zones however it will be WoW style in which if you walk to Aldmeri zone with a Nord they will hunt to kill you. For two the pvp zone isn't forced in any sense, however there is things that will only be available to the pvp zone. First off you can't be emperor without participating in PvP. So yes if you care about being emperor of Tamriel (which gives you PvP buffs and rewards.) then yes you have to participate in PvP. Now assuming you don't care about the PvP related benefits to being emperor which requires PvP what other benefits does the PvP zone offer? For one it offers a classic system that dates back to EverQuest of which many of you, I assume don't remember.  Public Dungeons, but on a totally new level. These public dungeons will be multiple raid groups of people fighting for the same boss which very well could be from different factions. Now if you are a care bear this obviously isn't the place for you because opposite faction raid groups can kill you to claim the boss for themselves. Yes this has been confirmed to be the best gear raids in the game and if you care about min/maxing you will have to go there. Otherwise the +10 bonus dmg on hit compared to your 1000 dmg a hit already isn't going to make a huge difference and you don't have to enter the pvp zone. With that being said there has been confirmed non pvp based quests inside the pvp zone for the carebear pve fans who want to still help their faction obtain the ruby throne. Grabbing a quest from the quartermaster of the EbonHeart pact to go kill some villagers in the local town owned by the elven scum is a quest that chances are you won't encounter much pvp when doing and therefore don't have to whine about.

    Now onto my biggest pet peave with people talking about the race locked factions. For one the Aldmeri Dominion would never allow anyone besides the Elves and the Khaijit in under any circumstances. So if you were to get to choose your faction you wouldn't be allowed to join that faction which would cause all sorts of other issues that the developers would have to deal with.  On a side note as far as I understand there will be only one server split into many phases however the phases will never be a pure pve phase which no pvp can occour in. So for anyone that doesn't want to play the game because of pvp and won't pick it up till it gets a pve only server like DAoC don't hold your breath.

    Nope, you are not allowed to enter another factions PvE area.  Unless they changed it, I would need a link to believe otherwise.

    Second, the factions shouldn't have been racial controlled.  It could've been a group of Elves that was fighting for the crown and allowed other races in because they wanted to use them.  Rarely does a group repersent an entire races thoughts and feelings.  I would've more likely bought this type of compromise instead of the crap they threw at us.

  • slobkingslobking Ashaway, RIPosts: 4Member
    The exact video I don't have off hand. However one of the devs said the words "Everyone hated when you walked across skyrim and hit that invisible wall. You will hate that in ESO also but the wall is 9 countries wide." As for the race lock I would never believe the Aldmeri would allow anyone else in. They are Elven Elitists and the only way they would allow you in to use you is if they intended to kill you at the end. Of which I would love to see them bring Perma Death into ESO but that's getting my hopes up to high.
  • HaloheadHalohead Carthage, NYPosts: 11Member

    Let's think about the general atmosphere of previous Elder Scroll games, and then try to apply it to ES:O's methodology on racially locked PvP.

    If Morrowind were like ES:O, if you picked any race besides Dunmer in character creation every NPC would try to kill you.

    If Skyrim were like ES:O, if you picked any Elven race, every Nord NPC would try to kill you.

    What we can learn from this is that yes, many races dislike eachother. But this prejudice and xenophobia has never sparked all-out racial warefare or kill-on-sight mentality.

    Think back on the old Elder Scrolls games you played, what were they about? Different races killing eachother all over the place? No. Skyrim had a faction war, but it was between Nords and you could choose which side to join regardless of what your race was. And even if you were a Nord that killed an Elf in Ulfric Stormcloak's Elf-Hating City of Windhelm, you'd still get arrested for it.

    Basically what I'm saying is that the core essence of the Elder Scrolls was never about race wars, it was about exploring the world and crawling through dungeons. I don't see why the developers have to make this a Tamriel of Warcraft just because they're making it into an MMO.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Halohead

    Let's think about the general atmosphere of previous Elder Scroll games, and then try to apply it to ES:O's methodology on racially locked PvP.

    If Morrowind were like ES:O, if you picked any race besides Dunmer in character creation every NPC would try to kill you.

    If Skyrim were like ES:O, if you picked any Elven race, every Nord NPC would try to kill you.

    What we can learn from this is that yes, many races dislike eachother. But this prejudice and xenophobia has never sparked all-out racial warefare or kill-on-sight mentality.

    Think back on the old Elder Scrolls games you played, what were they about? Different races killing eachother all over the place? No. Skyrim had a faction war, but it was between Nords and you could choose which side to join regardless of what your race was. And even if you were a Nord that killed an Elf in Ulfric Stormcloak's Elf-Hating City of Windhelm, you'd still get arrested for it.

    Basically what I'm saying is that the core essence of the Elder Scrolls was never about race wars, it was about exploring the world and crawling through dungeons. I don't see why the developers have to make this a Tamriel of Warcraft just because they're making it into an MMO.

    Indeed, tyvm for posting this.  What you listed is an important part of the Elder Scrolls games.  Everyone can go on about why they locked factions but it comes down to, they didn't have to but did because they considered DAoC > TES.

  • SwiftrevoirSwiftrevoir Largo, FLPosts: 156Member
    I don't understand why a certain race/faction won't be able to see the rest of the world.  You'll be fighting your way through it but no doubt you'll get to see it.  Think territory raids.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,258Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Swiftrevoir
    I don't understand why a certain race/faction won't be able to see the rest of the world.  You'll be fighting your way through it but no doubt you'll get to see it.  Think territory raids.

    It doesn't seem like there will be territory raids image due to the TESO having Apvp (Area pvp tm.) instead of Wpvp.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Having factions and faction only areas creates a sense of war, unlike in wow where opposing factions just run by each other paying no heed.
  • Originally posted by Istavaan
    Having factions and faction only areas creates a sense of war, unlike in wow where opposing factions just run by each other paying no heed.

    Paying no heed? i was jsut on wow 10 min ago and i was picking a flower and a Horde came dont and brutally fucked me so hard up the arse my pandarens fur turned red, paying no heed are you off you're fucking rocker? for a start how the fuck is TESO a war? in real life do we have a world war then all go ok lets only fight on that 1 island in the sea? no they fekin dont. as for the other comment, so all british people should run rampant killing every afgan then come across because we are at war with a faction of them? no.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Having factions and faction only areas creates a sense of war, unlike in wow where opposing factions just run by each other paying no heed.

    Paying no heed? i was jsut on wow 10 min ago and i was picking a flower and a Horde came dont and brutally fucked me so hard up the arse my pandarens fur turned red, paying no heed are you off you're fucking rocker? for a start how the fuck is TESO a war? in real life do we have a world war then all go ok lets only fight on that 1 island in the sea? no they fekin dont. as for the other comment, so all british people should run rampant killing every afgan then come across because we are at war with a faction of them? no.

    TESO is a game it's not real life, there are no elves or orcs in real life either but i don't see you complaining about that.cyrodill is not an island it's the center of the map and the reason they are fighting over it is because it's the capital of tamriel and where the empty emporers seat lies, all factions are fighting for control of the crown.

  • SQTOSQTO victoria, BCPosts: 188Member
    I like race and faction seperation in pvp games because it develops more faction pride. 
  • Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Having factions and faction only areas creates a sense of war, unlike in wow where opposing factions just run by each other paying no heed.

    Paying no heed? i was jsut on wow 10 min ago and i was picking a flower and a Horde came dont and brutally fucked me so hard up the arse my pandarens fur turned red, paying no heed are you off you're fucking rocker? for a start how the fuck is TESO a war? in real life do we have a world war then all go ok lets only fight on that 1 island in the sea? no they fekin dont. as for the other comment, so all british people should run rampant killing every afgan then come across because we are at war with a faction of them? no.

    TESO is a game it's not real life, there are no elves or orcs in real life either but i don't see you complaining about that.

    Because a faction is at war with another does not mean one cannot defect and join the other. How is it a sense of war when you cannot even walk into you're enemys zone? they are cut off, as a nord i cant enter the elf zones ect, so it snot a sense of war as to a sense of xenophobic mexican border patrol. is fucking frodo can walk into moria my nord such as hell should be able to walk into the other zones war or not, splitting it up like this removes all sandbox, exploration and forces us to make alts, when people dont want alts, i have 1 name ive used for 13 years, 1 name... and i want to keep it that way and build renown in such a way. oh you blabla? nope? blabla? or no sorry wrong again bla? nope sorry dont know you, or constantly having to tell your friends who the fuck you are currently playing.

  • Originally posted by SQTO
    I like race and faction seperation in pvp games because it develops more faction pride. 

    And if we pick our faction and fight in pvp why is that not enough? why does our race mean anything? race gives you faction pride? no faction gives you faction pride.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway
    Originally posted by SQTO
    I like race and faction seperation in pvp games because it develops more faction pride. 

    And if we pick our faction and fight in pvp why is that not enough? why does our race mean anything? race gives you faction pride? no faction gives you faction pride.

    factions are fighting over the crown to control cyrodill thats the story, you don't have to like it im just telling you how it is.

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Halohead

    Let's think about the general atmosphere of previous Elder Scroll games, and then try to apply it to ES:O's methodology on racially locked PvP.

    If Morrowind were like ES:O, if you picked any race besides Dunmer in character creation every NPC would try to kill you.

    If Skyrim were like ES:O, if you picked any Elven race, every Nord NPC would try to kill you.

    What we can learn from this is that yes, many races dislike eachother. But this prejudice and xenophobia has never sparked all-out racial warefare or kill-on-sight mentality.

    Think back on the old Elder Scrolls games you played, what were they about? Different races killing eachother all over the place? No. Skyrim had a faction war, but it was between Nords and you could choose which side to join regardless of what your race was. And even if you were a Nord that killed an Elf in Ulfric Stormcloak's Elf-Hating City of Windhelm, you'd still get arrested for it.

    Basically what I'm saying is that the core essence of the Elder Scrolls was never about race wars, it was about exploring the world and crawling through dungeons. I don't see why the developers have to make this a Tamriel of Warcraft just because they're making it into an MMO.

    Your generalization is full of shit for one thing this game is set at a time when the whole world is in conflict and at war for the throne. All those other games your just locked into one area of the game and jog around within invisable borders doing quests by yourself.

    The main argument against faction locks is you want to play with little billy who likes cats and you like orcs, but you can't now and both of you are too stuborn to meet in the middle so you will lose your life long friend.

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway

    I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

    Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

     

    [mod edit]

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway

    I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

    Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit] we ARE split up, WE are in our own zones. they SAID we must play 3 chars to see all the game zones, as each char can only see 33% ish of each factions zones.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway
    Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway

    I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

    Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit] we ARE split up, WE are in our own zones. they SAID we must play 3 chars to see all the game zones, as each char can only see 33% ish of each factions zones.

    where did they say all faction zones are locked, if i recall they said the earlier zones are locked and it opens up as you progress through the game. whats to say there aren't any border zones that are neutral?

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    Hmm, maybe you should watch the conversation again, if you haven't already...but before you do that...take some valuum, or sit in a dark room with a candel, or take a walk...or something

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Personally I think he was upset that the topic was brought up rather than 'hiding' something.  They don't want to talk about faction separation because of all the bad publicity the topic is getting.  I don't think they have any plans to change it but he didn't want to answer it negatively so he accidental spewed out "we'll see".
  • LeucentLeucent Penticton, BCPosts: 2,371Member
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway
    Hello, yes 3 races per faction, they are split up and quest in their own areas. Go to their main website and watch the introduction video and view a map of TESO on google, you will see the seperation, the only place we will all meet is in the middle for pvp.

    And?

  • LeucentLeucent Penticton, BCPosts: 2,371Member
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway
    Originally posted by FelixMajor
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway

    I was so looking forward to an Elder scrolls mmo since i played morowind, i always hopped for a coop/mmo of tes, but after seeing that the races are split up seriously depressed me.

    Actually, if you watched the last conversation MMORPG had with Paul Sage, and he was asked if the races being sided to certain factions would mean that those races could not be part of those factions, Paul put an evil grin on his face and said he could not answer that at this time.

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit] we ARE split up, WE are in our own zones. they SAID we must play 3 chars to see all the game zones, as each char can only see 33% ish of each factions zones.

    This system worked great in DAOC. [mod edit]

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Metanol

    I actually like this thing!

    -IF- we are at war, I don't want to be able to freely walk into my enemies cities. That would be horribly immersion breaking. I do however believe that we should be given the freedom to go -anywhere- we can, as long as we play it smart and survive. Even into the deepest enemy territory.

     You clearly know nothing about TES. The races have been mixed, they have been living all across the world and the very idea of taking TES and forcing old outdated used up trashy MMORPG steriotypes is crazy.

    And NO, DaoC is NOT the end all be all game to mimmick...the game wasnt even that popular.

    DaoC, top population, 350k'ish placing it right near SWG that had OPEN WORLD PvP with factions and races mixed and you could only not enter an enemy city IF you were flagged with your faction.

    Guild Wars, top population, 6 million'ish, heavily instanced, no faction/race limits.

    If anything, the genre has shown that DaoC did a LOT wrong...its not like your character has a tattoo on his face telling everyone whos side they are on...just take off the dang uniform and you look like everyone else...well, and you would be naked but oh well.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • Originally posted by Leucent
    Originally posted by AdamChattaway
    Hello, yes 3 races per faction, they are split up and quest in their own areas. Go to their main website and watch the introduction video and view a map of TESO on google, you will see the seperation, the only place we will all meet is in the middle for pvp.

    And?

    that was a reply to someones questiong... fuck sakes lol failed torll.

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