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WHYYYY LEVELS WHYYYY

cwliiascwliias Bothell, WAPosts: 31Member Uncommon
... When i heard the words... "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"... I cried a little... Am i over reacting and if so why and how in the hell is that not going to ruin this game... seriously... player lvls in a ES game... Sounds like a joke to me.
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Comments

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    What? Previous ES games have levels too.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • cwliiascwliias Bothell, WAPosts: 31Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    What? Previous ES games have levels too.

    They have levels in the facet of you use a sword and it levels up yes... Not go grind XP and level up your character before you can REALLLY play the game

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor AdelaidePosts: 549Member Uncommon
    Do we know yet if ESO will have a conventional earn XP/gain levels model of progression like every other MMO or will it be more like other ES games?

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by cwliias
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    What? Previous ES games have levels too.

    They have levels in the facet of you use a sword and it levels up yes... Not go grind XP and level up your character before you can REALLLY play the game

    Morrowind had actual player levels too, and from what I understand so did Skyrim.

     

    And yes, they have traditional levels, that was revealed way back when they told us that we were not getting real time combat either. ie we have a gcd.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor
    Do we know yet if ESO will have a conventional earn XP/gain levels model of progression like every other MMO or will it be more like other ES games?

    it has levels.  50 of them.  you can also level up skills like in other ES games.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • XarkoXarko Hradec KralovePosts: 394Member Uncommon
    I think you'll get classic xp for character lvls and some sort of other xp to unlock skills depending on what weapon or armor you are using or smth like that.
  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor AdelaidePosts: 549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor
    Do we know yet if ESO will have a conventional earn XP/gain levels model of progression like every other MMO or will it be more like other ES games?

    it has levels.  50 of them.  you can also level up skills like in other ES games.

    Yes, but to gain levels do you have to kill monsters and and complete quests to collect xp, or do you have to level up skills like in the other ES games.  Skyrim for example you can level up just by levelling your alchemy/blacksmithing skills. 

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • NL-RikkertNL-Rikkert schagenPosts: 121Member Uncommon

    As much as it takes away the essence of what TES stands for, it is likely there so high lvl people don't have the option to give lvl 1 players the best gear and thus breaking the game for lower lvl players.

    Curious where this is going to end, thus far it seems to be just another MMO instead of a true extention of the TES series. (sadface)

    STOOPID
    When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.

  • SaerainSaerain Barrington, RIPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cwliias
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    What? Previous ES games have levels too.

    They have levels in the facet of you use a sword and it levels up yes... Not go grind XP and level up your character before you can REALLLY play the game

    No... they have levels in the sense that they have levels. Your character levels up. Not your sword.

    Favorites: EVE, VG, LotRO | Playing: None | Anticipating: SC, ED, TD, EQN, CU
  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 953Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by DanitaKusor
    Do we know yet if ESO will have a conventional earn XP/gain levels model of progression like every other MMO or will it be more like other ES games?

    it has levels.  50 of them.  you can also level up skills like in other ES games.

    Yes, but to gain levels do you have to kill monsters and and complete quests to collect xp, or do you have to level up skills like in the other ES games.  Skyrim for example you can level up just by levelling your alchemy/blacksmithing skills. 

    I wish I knew the answer to this, but from hearing about the "heroic story" they're planning to incorporate, it sounds like you'll be questing and completing events to level up. Really, I can't be certain, but I'd be surprised if skill gain was what related to character level gain, which is a shame in my opinion.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Its a themepark, what are you guys not understanding? Where do you guys think this talk is coming from about uniting the ES and MMO play groups?

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by cwliias
    ... When i heard the words... "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"... I cried a little... Am i over reacting and if so why and how in the hell is that not going to ruin this game... seriously... player lvls in a ES game... Sounds like a joke to me.

    I don't like that quote either. That goes for any game. So are they telling us there's 50 levels of tutorial in this game? Ugh.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    How i read it, you level pretty much as normal until 50 where you are specialised in one role, then at 50 you start earning things like realm rank in pvp, picking up specialist crafts or skilling new weapons which expands your character more vertically.

    I'm disappointed its more level than skill based, but.... at least they seem to be doing away with the wow style exponential power gains once you hit endgame. Doesn't sound at all like they are going with Sharp gear curved item tiers as it seems their aim is to have you competative as soon as you hit 50.
  • GrinnzGrinnz Utica, NYPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    There are just a lot of things from a single player game, that just won't work for a MMO. I think leveling up via Alchemy doesn't strike me as a good way for leveling in a multiplayer game.

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  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    Skyrim has levels. Both character levels AND skill levels. And I think TESO is going down the same path. Dunno how leveling is handled though (i.e.character  xp gains or leveling through skill use).
  • ShaikeShaike NesherPosts: 301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cwliias
    ... When i heard the words... "When the player hits lvl 50 thats when the game really opens up"... I cried a little... Am i over reacting and if so why and how in the hell is that not going to ruin this game... seriously... player lvls in a ES game... Sounds like a joke to me.

    I will try to explain how i see it

    If this new game had "levels" like in Skyrim for example (where you "level" something, like Alchemy/1-H Weapon/Smithing/Etc and this gives you XP to advance to the next level, only so you could get more stamina/mana/HP and/or a Skill Point) then equipment and weapons could be equiped by anyone, at any point of the game.

    Now in a Solo game (Like Skyrim) result will be that you start and (with a mod for an armor and weapons for example) at lvl1 you can have the "best" gear in the game. Imagin this in an MMO with an Auction-House of sorts.... Now you see how this does not make sense.

    You can claim that certain achievments needs to be fullfilled for specific gear to be equiped (lets say no levels, but you have to have enough Skill/Skill Points/Gear already equiped/whatever) - but they chose the WoW path which means you will have XP given to you once you kill something and once you finish quests...

    Well - i guess we don't have too long to w8 as Beta is right around the corner.....

    Just my 2 cents...

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  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Grinnz
    There are just a lot of things from a single player game, that just won't work for a MMO. I think leveling up via Alchemy doesn't strike me as a good way for leveling in a multiplayer game.

    I disagree. Playing Vanguards at the moment and you can level your character up to max seperately in Adventuring, Crafting and diplomacy. If you want to play just a crafter you can hit max without ever having to swing a sword.

    That is perfect character development for me. You get better at what you specifically do, not some arbitary level that means that even though you have never used something you are automatically god like when using it.

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,577Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Grinnz
    There are just a lot of things from a single player game, that just won't work for a MMO. I think leveling up via Alchemy doesn't strike me as a good way for leveling in a multiplayer game.

    I disagree. Playing Vanguards at the moment and you can level your character up to max seperately in Adventuring, Crafting and diplomacy. If you want to play just a crafter you can hit max without ever having to swing a sword.

    That is perfect character development for me. You get better at what you specifically do, not some arbitary level that means that even though you have never used something you are automatically god like when using it.

    I agree that there should be certain ways in leveling your toon other than combat (like in a ES game).

     

    Like others have mentioned though they need to think about the whole gear/weapon progression. Whats to stop a vet giving a noob full dragonbone armour?

    image
  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor AdelaidePosts: 549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Grinnz
    There are just a lot of things from a single player game, that just won't work for a MMO. I think leveling up via Alchemy doesn't strike me as a good way for leveling in a multiplayer game.

    I disagree. Playing Vanguards at the moment and you can level your character up to max seperately in Adventuring, Crafting and diplomacy. If you want to play just a crafter you can hit max without ever having to swing a sword.

    That is perfect character development for me. You get better at what you specifically do, not some arbitary level that means that even though you have never used something you are automatically god like when using it.

    Agreed.  With any game that has a maximum number of levels it seems rather short-sighted to restrict how players reach that maximum.  Why can't you level by crafting, PvP at the same rate as any other means?  The more restrictions a game places on players even with something a basic as levelling means the less fun players will have.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Did they actually say the game opens up when you reach max level? If they did, then either max level is really easy to reach or this game is one of those "be bored for 100 hours until you reach endgame" deals. That's enough for me to not even consider playing it.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I think why they have levels.
    1 guild mates can't instantly power up new players / characters with gifted gear
    2 players have to commit sometime before entering pvp, so players cant cheese it by flooding the campaign with low level alts of a different alliance
    3 they want players to have time exploring the world.
    4 they are maybe going with the lowly prisoner in rags start of the tes single player game, sp they want that strong sense of early progression from tes "wow I've got a set of armour" without braking endgame by having veterans going around 1 shotting new 50s
  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Grinnz
    There are just a lot of things from a single player game, that just won't work for a MMO. I think leveling up via Alchemy doesn't strike me as a good way for leveling in a multiplayer game.

    I disagree. Playing Vanguards at the moment and you can level your character up to max seperately in Adventuring, Crafting and diplomacy. If you want to play just a crafter you can hit max without ever having to swing a sword.

    That is perfect character development for me. You get better at what you specifically do, not some arbitary level that means that even though you have never used something you are automatically god like when using it.

    I agree that there should be certain ways in leveling your toon other than combat (like in a ES game).

     

    Like others have mentioned though they need to think about the whole gear/weapon progression. Whats to stop a vet giving a noob full dragonbone armour?

    Off the top of my head...

    A person unskilled in the use of heavy armour will find it very heavy to the point that they cannot move. Link the use of items to the skill used. So a noob will have no skill in heavy armour so effectively they will be wearing an impressive looking item but it will offer zero protection as tehy struggle to move it it and are sitting ducks.

    A better example would be a sword of demon killing....

    Well you don't have the weight issue with armour so how to stop noobs using such a powerful weapon? Again, link it to the relevent skill. Only through a lot of practive will you be good at using a sword. Till you are proficient your hits will not be quick and fluid and will be less powerful and due to your lack of experience using such a weapon you will be unable to harness it's special powers.

    Items have nothing to do with using other ways to level excluding combat. If someone wants to use a combat weapon or armour then I see no problem linking their use to the relevent combat skills. A crafter is unlikely to be able to use the items unless they also have skills in combat. And what is the problem with that?

     

  • MyTabbycatMyTabbycat SP, MOPosts: 312Member

    You really should listen to the interview with Paul Sage as he touches on this some.

    Yes, you level up with experience. Once you hit level 50, you will stop leveling but you are only about 1/3rd of the way finished with progressing your character.

    Every weapon you use, every piece of armor you wear etc has its own leveling. As you use it, you become more proficient and unlock new abilities. When you are level 50, you continue to work on your skills to unlock new abilities to make your character more versatile. The more versatile your character, the more you are able to adapt to and handle different situations in the game.

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,124Member Uncommon

    from wht I remember from they last intervies, ESO will have the pretty stantard lvling like others mmos, so if you want something like skyrim and or morrowind, forget, its will not be here.

     

    and jsut to explain about lvling in morrowind, you when creating your char you had to choose some skills for "major skils" that means the skills on major line will be used to define your lvl also the major line lvl faster then the other in minor line(I'm forgeting something here, pretty sure its like this on oblivion but had something else on mnorrowind, but it pretty much this, I think it have major skills minor skills and the one not use for the lvl), also each skill is associate with a stats so the better this skill is better chance for you when you lvl have a +5 bonus to choose for your stat, so several guides and people looking for the max on all char, low lvl run, would choose for major skills they would never use or you can only lvl it if you want, so all combat lines skills would be minors and since from lvl on tehy would try to max this skills.

     

    oblivion same thing(but only with major and minor skills), skyrim make the thing a whole lot simplier, you don't have have major/minors skills anymore here all skills will lvl you but on each lvl up you get perks points to spend on skills(fallout 3 anyone?).

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  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,577Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd

     - snip-

    Im guessing they will have to go down that path, adding skill points to let you use or get benefits from armour/weapons.

    It deviates from ES games though as I wasn't restriced in what I could wear/wield.

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