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A day and night cycle makes mmos feel more alive. Also no more on rails themeparks!

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Comments

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon

    But still, its the one thing I hold sacred! So much makes me angry but thats the one thing I wan't left out of it! LOL

    You know on planet of the apes when he sees the statue of liberty on the beaches? THATS HOW I FEEL!!! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
     

    Thats why the developers did things like Trammel, which is hilarious because many consider that to be the "death" of UO. All of the complaining that Devs do not listen to players, yet almost every time you do it pisses off another group!

    But why don't you cite the positive examples, rather than the negative ones?

    For example, the D3 1.04 and 1.05 patch (fix legendaries and progression) makes the game a lot better, and if you trace Xfire numbers, it increases the player base.

    So listening to players is not all bad. The problem about trammel is probably that it is too little too late. EQ is already there eating UO's lunch.

    Because I highly doubt that the players themselves are the ones that made that happen. I would be willing to bet that pulling of the metrics on drop rates and the like actually made that decision. Don't mistake me, forums are great for "canary in a coal mine" type problems, but actually listening the player base itself in how it should be handled is very rarely a good thing, which is really annoying when developers seem to "give in" and do it.

    Also, what exactly are you basing "good game" on? Uo's numbers still had not peaked even with trammel, there were still people joining and playing the game. You want to state that the game was not for you, or it has specific issues that were poorly implemented, fine, but to just flat call the game bad when sheer number of players is your metric is ludacrous.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Goatgod76
     

    According to you. But judging from your gaming resume, you haven't played UO and/or EQ, or others prior to ...you know, that 2004 game. So of course you'd agree with him. ...no surprise there.

    But i did. I started with kingdom of drakkar, a precursor of MMO. Then i played UO beta .. very bad GAME. Then EQ . only for a year .. the camping and grinding same mob was getting to no fun very fast.

    Those are not good games .. and there was a reason why EQ eclipse UO soon, and itself being eclipsed by WOW. Devs finally figured out that a fun game is more important than a world sim.

         You mean they are NOT good games in your opinion..  NOT all forms of entertainment have to be the same, just as not ALL sports are the same..  Some like baseball, some like tennis and some like golf and much more..  YOU however keep wanting to put all games into ONE tight little FREE TO PLAY box for you to exploit and freeload on..  I and others wish for something more then an easy shoot em up arcade game like WoW..  I want the challenge of weight limits, food and drink requirements, stamina issues, day and night cycles with weather..  I want my RPG to be more like AD&D, then donkey kong.. 

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    EQ2 has night and days, and even environment to where it rains.   SWTOR missed all that.  Kind of funny a game from 2004 has that built in day one and a game with todays tech totally missed the ball. 

     

  • BarrikorBarrikor Phoenix, AZPosts: 316Member

    Thread title is misleading...

    I don't know of any themeparks that use Ruby on Rails

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Goatgod76
    Sigh....why bother.

    I personally agree with your points, Goat, and advise you not to waste time conversing with antagonists.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Goatgod76
     

    According to you. But judging from your gaming resume, you haven't played UO and/or EQ, or others prior to ...you know, that 2004 game. So of course you'd agree with him. ...no surprise there.

    But i did. I started with kingdom of drakkar, a precursor of MMO. Then i played UO beta .. very bad GAME. Then EQ . only for a year .. the camping and grinding same mob was getting to no fun very fast.

    Those are not good games .. and there was a reason why EQ eclipse UO soon, and itself being eclipsed by WOW. Devs finally figured out that a fun game is more important than a world sim.

         You mean they are NOT good games in your opinion..  NOT all forms of entertainment have to be the same, just as not ALL sports are the same..  Some like baseball, some like tennis and some like golf and much more..  YOU however keep wanting to put all games into ONE tight little FREE TO PLAY box for you to exploit and freeload on..  I and others wish for something more then an easy shoot em up arcade game like WoW..  I want the challenge of weight limits, food and drink requirements, stamina issues, day and night cycles with weather..  I want my RPG to be more like AD&D, then donkey kong.. 

    Sure  ... not good games for me. And games that are not as popular as the newer MMOs.

    Food and drink requirement is a challenge? LOL .. it is just an inconvenience. What is so challenging about it? Do you want the "challenge" of going to the toilet too?

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,470Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Rydeson
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Goatgod76
     

    According to you. But judging from your gaming resume, you haven't played UO and/or EQ, or others prior to ...you know, that 2004 game. So of course you'd agree with him. ...no surprise there.

    But i did. I started with kingdom of drakkar, a precursor of MMO. Then i played UO beta .. very bad GAME. Then EQ . only for a year .. the camping and grinding same mob was getting to no fun very fast.

    Those are not good games .. and there was a reason why EQ eclipse UO soon, and itself being eclipsed by WOW. Devs finally figured out that a fun game is more important than a world sim.

         You mean they are NOT good games in your opinion..  NOT all forms of entertainment have to be the same, just as not ALL sports are the same..  Some like baseball, some like tennis and some like golf and much more..  YOU however keep wanting to put all games into ONE tight little FREE TO PLAY box for you to exploit and freeload on..  I and others wish for something more then an easy shoot em up arcade game like WoW..  I want the challenge of weight limits, food and drink requirements, stamina issues, day and night cycles with weather..  I want my RPG to be more like AD&D, then donkey kong.. 

    Sure  ... not good games for me. And games that are not as popular as the newer MMOs.

    Food and drink requirement is a challenge? LOL .. it is just an inconvenience. What is so challenging about it? Do you want the "challenge" of going to the toilet too?

     That's what it boils down to.  If a game feature doesn't get people high like crack then it's useless or worse PITA.  This is why we will never get virtual worlds.  People  who only want the crack.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
     

     That's what it boils down to.  If a game feature doesn't get people high like crack then it's useless or worse PITA.  This is why we will never get virtual worlds.  People  who only want the crack.

    But there is so many different types of crack ...

    - action combat

    - progression

    - stealth gameplay (admittedly seldom in a MMO, but there is some)

     

    and in so many settings ....

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon

    A realistic day/night cycle does indeed enhance the aesthetic of an MMO.


    And I dont mean the lame real time day/night cycle in WoW where the only difference is the color of the sky. However, when WoW launched it was a bit darker during night and there was more glare on reflective objects during day. But people that played mainly during at night complained and Blizzard took out the small differences.


    Also, I would like to see a realistic weather system and a realistic seasons system.


    Im a fan of themepark MMO and even I am tired of eternally day and eternally summer zones that never see a rain cloud.

  • django-djangodjango-django ElthamPosts: 115Member

     

    Weather does play an important role to me in an MMO.

    A decent day and night cycle, with a weather system that contains rain, thunderstorms, lightning in the distance, even days where the map almost feels like it's in a drought. Makes the scenery that much more enjoyable and realistic to an extent. I don't  thinki I have played a game where it had just rained for hours and have it be raining in the next area you travel too.

    I have always dreaded playing areas in a game with such a constistent scene, without a day and night cycle or implemented weather system. Although I like a realistic day and night cycle, I'd probably find myself constantly playing either day or night.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    A realistic day/night cycle does indeed enhance the aesthetic of an MMO.


    And I dont mean the lame real time day/night cycle in WoW where the only difference is the color of the sky. However, when WoW launched it was a bit darker during night and there was more glare on reflective objects during day. But people that played mainly during at night complained and Blizzard took out the small differences.


    Also, I would like to see a realistic weather system and a realistic seasons system.


    Im a fan of themepark MMO and even I am tired of eternally day and eternally summer zones that never see a rain cloud.

    If it is only about aesthetic, is there any reason to be realistic?

    In fact, if it is only different graphics (rain, sleet, snow, sunny, rainbox ..) and what-not .. just throw them up randomly every 10 min so people can have different experiences.

     

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon

    My experience with SWTOR was that i hated the static daylight.
    Any places looks allways the same at any time you come to visit and it makes the static of the world way more recognizeable.

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Thorqemada

    My experience with SWTOR was that i hated the static daylight.
    Any places looks allways the same at any time you come to visit and it makes the static of the world way more recognizeable.

    I don't believe TOR has a good art team. The art design of characters and locations are just meh .... many SP Star War games are done way better.

    And how hard it is to throw in some random lighting variations?

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki A realistic day/night cycle does indeed enhance the aesthetic of an MMO. And I dont mean the lame real time day/night cycle in WoW where the only difference is the color of the sky. However, when WoW launched it was a bit darker during night and there was more glare on reflective objects during day. But people that played mainly during at night complained and Blizzard took out the small differences. Also, I would like to see a realistic weather system and a realistic seasons system. Im a fan of themepark MMO and even I am tired of eternally day and eternally summer zones that never see a rain cloud.
    If it is only about aesthetic, is there any reason to be realistic?

    In fact, if it is only different graphics (rain, sleet, snow, sunny, rainbox ..) and what-not .. just throw them up randomly every 10 min so people can have different experiences.

     



    If its realistic it enhances the feeling of the game world.


    If its random like raining exploding cows then that may cool the first time but it become stupid after a week.


    Its about making people connected to a meaningless video game without using short term "Hey! Look at me!" gimmicks.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Xiaoki A realistic day/night cycle does indeed enhance the aesthetic of an MMO. And I dont mean the lame real time day/night cycle in WoW where the only difference is the color of the sky. However, when WoW launched it was a bit darker during night and there was more glare on reflective objects during day. But people that played mainly during at night complained and Blizzard took out the small differences. Also, I would like to see a realistic weather system and a realistic seasons system. Im a fan of themepark MMO and even I am tired of eternally day and eternally summer zones that never see a rain cloud.
    If it is only about aesthetic, is there any reason to be realistic?

     

    In fact, if it is only different graphics (rain, sleet, snow, sunny, rainbox ..) and what-not .. just throw them up randomly every 10 min so people can have different experiences.

     


    If its realistic it enhances the feeling of the game world.

     


    If its random like raining exploding cows then that may cool the first time but it become stupid after a week.


    Its about making people connected to a meaningless video game without using short term "Hey! Look at me!" gimmicks.

    Realistic looking .. sure .. but there is no reason to have realistic timing, or consequences, right?

     

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Xiaoki A realistic day/night cycle does indeed enhance the aesthetic of an MMO. And I dont mean the lame real time day/night cycle in WoW where the only difference is the color of the sky. However, when WoW launched it was a bit darker during night and there was more glare on reflective objects during day. But people that played mainly during at night complained and Blizzard took out the small differences. Also, I would like to see a realistic weather system and a realistic seasons system. Im a fan of themepark MMO and even I am tired of eternally day and eternally summer zones that never see a rain cloud.
    If it is only about aesthetic, is there any reason to be realistic?   In fact, if it is only different graphics (rain, sleet, snow, sunny, rainbox ..) and what-not .. just throw them up randomly every 10 min so people can have different experiences.  
    If its realistic it enhances the feeling of the game world.   If its random like raining exploding cows then that may cool the first time but it become stupid after a week. Its about making people connected to a meaningless video game without using short term "Hey! Look at me!" gimmicks.
    Realistic looking .. sure .. but there is no reason to have realistic timing, or consequences, right?

     



    Yes, there is a reason.


    Theres a saying that kinda goes "its the small things that make life interesting". Same is true for MMOs.


    However, in 2012 we have seen a decline in these "small things". Yeah, it may have only been a loss of emotes or environmental actions but these losses have been adding up and people finally noticed.


    You may think that sitting or flex emotes or NPCs going to wells to fetch water are pointless but they arent, they enhance the MMO experience even when we dont notice them until they are gone.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by tommy-xx

     Weather does play an important role to me in an MMO.

    I've tried to see it, for years.

    Nope. Weather/night cycles only rates a 1 (roughly) on the 'care' meter.

    I do get that some folks develop pet peeves, though.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Xiaoki A realistic day/night cycle does indeed enhance the aesthetic of an MMO. And I dont mean the lame real time day/night cycle in WoW where the only difference is the color of the sky. However, when WoW launched it was a bit darker during night and there was more glare on reflective objects during day. But people that played mainly during at night complained and Blizzard took out the small differences. Also, I would like to see a realistic weather system and a realistic seasons system. Im a fan of themepark MMO and even I am tired of eternally day and eternally summer zones that never see a rain cloud.
    If it is only about aesthetic, is there any reason to be realistic?   In fact, if it is only different graphics (rain, sleet, snow, sunny, rainbox ..) and what-not .. just throw them up randomly every 10 min so people can have different experiences.  
    If its realistic it enhances the feeling of the game world.   If its random like raining exploding cows then that may cool the first time but it become stupid after a week. Its about making people connected to a meaningless video game without using short term "Hey! Look at me!" gimmicks.
    Realistic looking .. sure .. but there is no reason to have realistic timing, or consequences, right?

     

     


    Yes, there is a reason.

     


    Theres a saying that kinda goes "its the small things that make life interesting". Same is true for MMOs.


    However, in 2012 we have seen a decline in these "small things". Yeah, it may have only been a loss of emotes or environmental actions but these losses have been adding up and people finally noticed.


    You may think that sitting or flex emotes or NPCs going to wells to fetch water are pointless but they arent, they enhance the MMO experience even when we dont notice them until they are gone.

    "interesting" does not equate "realistic". Sure, add a lot of stuff .. but why would any needs to be realistic? They just need to be interesting.

    For example, you can have a tree with dancing flowers .. totally unrealistic but interesting and fun. And why would NPCs just go to fetch water? How about they transform themselves randomly into animals? There is no reasons why they should do something mundane.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Xiaoki A realistic day/night cycle does indeed enhance the aesthetic of an MMO. And I dont mean the lame real time day/night cycle in WoW where the only difference is the color of the sky. However, when WoW launched it was a bit darker during night and there was more glare on reflective objects during day. But people that played mainly during at night complained and Blizzard took out the small differences. Also, I would like to see a realistic weather system and a realistic seasons system. Im a fan of themepark MMO and even I am tired of eternally day and eternally summer zones that never see a rain cloud.
    If it is only about aesthetic, is there any reason to be realistic?   In fact, if it is only different graphics (rain, sleet, snow, sunny, rainbox ..) and what-not .. just throw them up randomly every 10 min so people can have different experiences.  
    If its realistic it enhances the feeling of the game world.   If its random like raining exploding cows then that may cool the first time but it become stupid after a week. Its about making people connected to a meaningless video game without using short term "Hey! Look at me!" gimmicks.
    Realistic looking .. sure .. but there is no reason to have realistic timing, or consequences, right?    
    Yes, there is a reason.   Theres a saying that kinda goes "its the small things that make life interesting". Same is true for MMOs. However, in 2012 we have seen a decline in these "small things". Yeah, it may have only been a loss of emotes or environmental actions but these losses have been adding up and people finally noticed. You may think that sitting or flex emotes or NPCs going to wells to fetch water are pointless but they arent, they enhance the MMO experience even when we dont notice them until they are gone.
    "interesting" does not equate "realistic". Sure, add a lot of stuff .. but why would any needs to be realistic? They just need to be interesting.

    For example, you can have a tree with dancing flowers .. totally unrealistic but interesting and fun. And why would NPCs just go to fetch water? How about they transform themselves randomly into animals? There is no reasons why they should do something mundane.



    Already explained why "interesting" doesnt work but once more shouldnt hurt.


    Because the novelty of "Hey! Look at me!" gimmicks like NPCs randomly turning into animals wears off quickly and then its just stupid and embarrassing.


    If you're going to take this discussion in unnecessary circles then Im out.

  • birkenbirken Fort Covinton, NYPosts: 122Member
    Vanuard is the only game i have seen other than old mmo that have night and day quests. Also has night only mobs named ones. It has everything old eq had plus alot more. Great thing about reall full content games.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,757Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Most MMOs have day and night cycle.

    Yes but how many of them actually utilitize it for something other than aesthetics?

    Requiem online (the horror mmo from the guys who publish ragnarok) has a nice nightmare cycle. When it turns midnight it goes into nightmare mode and a bunch of elite monsters spawn in the open world (in certain areas)

    i think a newer mmo could use a similar system and make something much better with it. Even like Dragons Dogma that at night you experience different boss spawns and loots, etc. That would give a purpose to the day / night cycle in mmos other than aesthetics. But even if its only aesthetic, day and night cycle should always be in mmos.

    image
  • renrinkenrenrinken Downey, CAPosts: 29Member

    Forgive me, I skipped most of this thread.

    I feel that its not a "Day/Night" cycle is what is important. Its develeping a game to be so immersive you feel like your living through the game at night. Example like others pointed out is WoW. I played the game for 5+ years before I burnt out and I never notice night cycle at all. Reading this thread is actually first time I even realized it.

    Now compare it to a game like FF11, I remember watching the sun set in the world. I remember feeling that night was coming. The game defintely made mechanics to make Night and Day important as well. Having the fear of undead and ghosts at night was defintely a powerful tool that enhanced emmersion even greater. Not to mention having each day of the week have different effects also added to everything.

    So before you have a effective day/night system you need a immersive game. Of course you will never have a game that feels real without realistic perspective of time within the game.

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