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ESO - will it be a GW2 clon?

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Comments

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Axxar
    The game looks like a mix of SWTOR, WoW, WAR and DAoC. So yes, it will be a GW2 "clon."

    Well depending on who you ask, GW2 was a mix of some of those games too.

    Clon wars.

  • FoxxenFoxxen Fort Worth, TXPosts: 20Member

    This game is far from being a clone of GW2 for a lot of reasons.  Skills for one, Quests and Lore is another, Graphics are far far above anything in GW2, mechanics is another.  Just because a game has similar aspects, does NOT make a clone.  Read what the word "Clone" means in the dictionary, it's an exact copy of something already in existance.  What I have breifly pointed out here already far exceeds GW2 which wouldn't have taken much at all.  GW2 is only good for a short play period, same with GW1.  It's something to do when you're bored with everything else in my opinion.

    Where I feel ESO is going to come up short is the way the server is set up.  One Mega Server means everyone will just zerg through the content.  There is going to be way too many on one server for it to be any fun.  To me being on the highest populated servers in games has always been frustrating.  The one thing I miss in MMORPG's is the true Guild aspect.  No game since DAoC has done Guilds right.  There is no need to be in them, no need to form groups, no need to be a part of anything really.  I blame this one on WoW, definitely after they put in the Group Finding tools for both dungeons and raids.  They just pulled the nail on any reason once so ever to be part of a guild.

    GW2 is even worse because the perks you get as a guild?  You pay for them, then have to wait to use them so you have to plan things in advance.  But if people don't show up like it's their job, you can't always bank on that going well for you.  So that was a bad design right there, they should have made the effect happen then, then make you wait x-amount of time to use it again.  Every game so far I've been in has been very much less and less about Guilds.  DAoC had a damn good system and made it even better over time.  They recognized the power of Guilds and that was great.  Now days, it's just about get me and out as fast as possible, to the end of the game as fast as possible, raid, raid, raid, then rage quit because there is nothing left to do till the next content patch or expansion.

    PvP is another sore topic, because it's plaqued with the biggest whiners across the globe.  None of them are ever happy even after they get what they want.  They just find something else to complain about it seems.  Don't get me wrong, I once was HUGE on PvP, especially coming from DAoC.  I had eight level 50's and three were RR5+ and two were RR7+ one of them two were almost RR8 when I quit.  I personally would have made it to max rank had I stayed, but all my friends left for WoW.  I didn't feel up to dealing with the dwindling numbers.  So I went with them.  But PvP has never been that good since and I don't see it ever becoming as good again.  Today's gamers don't want it.  They want Quake or Call of Duty style pvp is seems.

    What makes an MMO a RPG is that the RPG doesn't just mean Role Playing Game here.  The RPG aspect of it also brings with it a lot of standards that are followed.  These standards include Stat Points that you put where you want each level, Racial Choices, Armor and Weapon choices, Character Creation Choices that are very detailed.  This list is HUGE and that was but a short and I mean very short list.  RPG also meant that the game was HUGE on story and content.  So to understand as to why it's so hard to make PvP work properly in this setting is to make someone very unhappy at times because they can't take getting hit by an archer while wearing cloth.  They can't stand also getting destroyed by a fireball while wearing plate.

    RPG aspects dictated weaknesses and strengths in everything.  People don't like that, they want balance.  There is no such a thing as -balance- where RPG comes in.  What does come in, is you adapt and move on, or die.  Recently I did this in Skyrim, as I chose to finally make a pure caster.  No light armor, no heavy armor, pure zero rated cloth.  What I used to find minute and pointless to worry about suddenly became my worst enemy.  Heck, even those stupid bear traps hurt early on.  I had to learn how to play all over again because I refused to take the game off of Adept till later when I pushed it to Expert.  Now I'm still playing that character, not even close to being done, but at some point I'll put the game on Master I'm sure of it.

    Point is, I'm the type that adapts and moves on.  Not one to let my weaknesses get the best of me and start complaining that I want my cloth armor to protect me better.  No no... Instead I decided to reinvent myself from my archer ways to approach the game differently.  That is something I'd like to see more players do, less whining, more adapting and moving on.  But PvP will always have zergs of one kind or another unless it's instanced off arenas.  Which I wouldn't mind them setting up the old Oblivion style arena in ESO where we could go in with Arena gear given to us before the fight and being able to place bets and so on.... That would RULE!

    Anyway, I've rambled on long enough... Have fun everyone! :)

    Guild Leader

    The Order of Sanity

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member

    The only thing i can see thats like gw2 is the limited action bar and the "anchors"

     

    It has raids, trinity, gear progression, a deep skill progression (my favourite announcement to date tbh), factions and no limits when it comes to items types.

     

    Sure ive missed some, but either way not really a "clon" of anything

  • trash656trash656 Here, SKPosts: 357Member Uncommon

    Pretty hard to judge just from looking at screenshots and gameplay videos, although that being said, I hope the game will be descent. From the "looks" of it, it's following the WoW formula and I really really really hope they don't go down that route, Because there is already enough of those WoW cloned Formula MMO's already out there.

    Instead I hope they keep it to the ideal Elderscrolls route, the fact you cannot travel to enemy zones, and that there is phasing has me concerned because then that means the game is not as open world as what was stated by developers. And I already am weary of developers and PR people because most of them are full of shitbags. So I'm not holding my breath for anything and keeping a negative tone towards this game, then I won't be dissapointed if I find out that it's another SWTOR, or GW2 deal.

  • trash656trash656 Here, SKPosts: 357Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foxxen

    This game is far from being a clone of GW2 for a lot of reasons.  Skills for one, Quests and Lore is another, Graphics are far far above anything in GW2, mechanics is another.  Just because a game has similar aspects, does NOT make a clone.  Read what the word "Clone" means in the dictionary, it's an exact copy of something already in existance.  What I have breifly pointed out here already far exceeds GW2 which wouldn't have taken much at all.  GW2 is only good for a short play period, same with GW1.  It's something to do when you're bored with everything else in my opinion.

    Where I feel ESO is going to come up short is the way the server is set up.  One Mega Server means everyone will just zerg through the content.  There is going to be way too many on one server for it to be any fun.  To me being on the highest populated servers in games has always been frustrating.  The one thing I miss in MMORPG's is the true Guild aspect.  No game since DAoC has done Guilds right.  There is no need to be in them, no need to form groups, no need to be a part of anything really.  I blame this one on WoW, definitely after they put in the Group Finding tools for both dungeons and raids.  They just pulled the nail on any reason once so ever to be part of a guild.

    GW2 is even worse because the perks you get as a guild?  You pay for them, then have to wait to use them so you have to plan things in advance.  But if people don't show up like it's their job, you can't always bank on that going well for you.  So that was a bad design right there, they should have made the effect happen then, then make you wait x-amount of time to use it again.  Every game so far I've been in has been very much less and less about Guilds.  DAoC had a damn good system and made it even better over time.  They recognized the power of Guilds and that was great.  Now days, it's just about get me and out as fast as possible, to the end of the game as fast as possible, raid, raid, raid, then rage quit because there is nothing left to do till the next content patch or expansion.

    PvP is another sore topic, because it's plaqued with the biggest whiners across the globe.  None of them are ever happy even after they get what they want.  They just find something else to complain about it seems.  Don't get me wrong, I once was HUGE on PvP, especially coming from DAoC.  I had eight level 50's and three were RR5+ and two were RR7+ one of them two were almost RR8 when I quit.  I personally would have made it to max rank had I stayed, but all my friends left for WoW.  I didn't feel up to dealing with the dwindling numbers.  So I went with them.  But PvP has never been that good since and I don't see it ever becoming as good again.  Today's gamers don't want it.  They want Quake or Call of Duty style pvp is seems.

    What makes an MMO a RPG is that the RPG doesn't just mean Role Playing Game here.  The RPG aspect of it also brings with it a lot of standards that are followed.  These standards include Stat Points that you put where you want each level, Racial Choices, Armor and Weapon choices, Character Creation Choices that are very detailed.  This list is HUGE and that was but a short and I mean very short list.  RPG also meant that the game was HUGE on story and content.  So to understand as to why it's so hard to make PvP work properly in this setting is to make someone very unhappy at times because they can't take getting hit by an archer while wearing cloth.  They can't stand also getting destroyed by a fireball while wearing plate.

    RPG aspects dictated weaknesses and strengths in everything.  People don't like that, they want balance.  There is no such a thing as -balance- where RPG comes in.  What does come in, is you adapt and move on, or die.  Recently I did this in Skyrim, as I chose to finally make a pure caster.  No light armor, no heavy armor, pure zero rated cloth.  What I used to find minute and pointless to worry about suddenly became my worst enemy.  Heck, even those stupid bear traps hurt early on.  I had to learn how to play all over again because I refused to take the game off of Adept till later when I pushed it to Expert.  Now I'm still playing that character, not even close to being done, but at some point I'll put the game on Master I'm sure of it.

    Point is, I'm the type that adapts and moves on.  Not one to let my weaknesses get the best of me and start complaining that I want my cloth armor to protect me better.  No no... Instead I decided to reinvent myself from my archer ways to approach the game differently.  That is something I'd like to see more players do, less whining, more adapting and moving on.  But PvP will always have zergs of one kind or another unless it's instanced off arenas.  Which I wouldn't mind them setting up the old Oblivion style arena in ESO where we could go in with Arena gear given to us before the fight and being able to place bets and so on.... That would RULE!

    Anyway, I've rambled on long enough... Have fun everyone! :)

    Holy crap, you should write a book on MMORPG's

  • RashmeindRashmeind Los Angeles, CAPosts: 18Member
    What's a don?  I hope it's not a GW2 don nonetheless >_>
  • VaporsVapors Fr.Posts: 407Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AreQ

    Well im reading and watching some stuff about ESO, and i see its a lot like GW2:

    In big  PvP you got really the same mechanic that GW2 has (big castle, small castle, and suply camps - viliges, machines and stuff). Ok it want be realm vs realm, but faction vs faction, and thats cool, but otherways.. same mechanic.

    In case of trinity, well they both dont want it in game.

    Combat mechanic proly will be diferent (without cooldowns?) thou.

     

    So, will ESO be a GW2 in diverent settings? What do you guys think?

    I mean after gw2 took so much from warhammer or daoc, its ok if eso takes abit from them too isn't it right?

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Whats a GW2 clon ??? Is Clon a none english term if so please enlighten me.
  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by boxsnd
    But GW2 copied a lot of things from other games too. WvW from DAoC/WAR, sPvP from WoW arenas/bgs, dynamic events from WAR/RIFT etc. 

    WOW did not add BGs until June 2005  http://www.wowwiki.com/Battleground

     

    GW1 had sPVP before WOW

    globaled.

    image

  • FoxxenFoxxen Fort Worth, TXPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by trash656

    Pretty hard to judge just from looking at screenshots and gameplay videos, although that being said, I hope the game will be descent. From the "looks" of it, it's following the WoW formula and I really really really hope they don't go down that route, Because there is already enough of those WoW cloned Formula MMO's already out there.

    Instead I hope they keep it to the ideal Elderscrolls route, the fact you cannot travel to enemy zones, and that there is phasing has me concerned because then that means the game is not as open world as what was stated by developers. And I already am weary of developers and PR people because most of them are full of shitbags. So I'm not holding my breath for anything and keeping a negative tone towards this game, then I won't be dissapointed if I find out that it's another SWTOR, or GW2 deal.

    I don't really see a lot of WoW in it, other than it's Fantasy based.  As far as the hotbar goes, eh, it doesn't need to be that big.  One of the things I hated in WoW was the classes in my opinion had WAY too many skills to deal with.  Shamans, Hunters, all had too many utility skills.  I like the more simplified set they're doing here.  Remember, there isn't a need for a lot of buttons when most of your attacks depend on how long you hold your mouse button or how you move while striking.

    Besides, WoW's formula was also taken from EQ.  Now WoW is nothing more than a childrens game.  They couldn't pay me to come back.  Right now I'm happy still playing Skyrim because of all the additional content you can get from the Modding community.  Some of those guys should be working for Bethesda, because they're damn good.  I love the look and feel of ESO, but that's not where my worries come from.  I've already stated them once in this thread.  So wont rehash them here again.

    Just for once though, I'd like a MMO to really be a RPG like they used to be.  Quit making things that are only good for a month or so.  It's making me not want to buy them anymore and just play games like Oblivion, Skyrim, Tomb Raider ( Exploration in this game series is always great ) and similar other games.  The things I love about Elder Scrolls is how much detail there is in the game.  I don't know how they're going to keep that intact when they have hundreds of thousands of players on one server.....  24 hours, 7 days a week ZERG Fest coming up!

    Guild Leader

    The Order of Sanity

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Yeah gw1 and coh had instanced pvp "esports" before wow.

    There's nothing original in wow.
  • azurreiazurrei Phoenix, AZPosts: 93Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Destai
    I think the features it wants to use are simply good features. Guild Wars 2 used those things because they make a great game and signify a push forward for MMOs. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a clone. From what I've read and seen, it seems a deeper game. Guild Wars 2 , while fun and large, is a large kiddy pool. It's fun, there's a water slide, but it is still 4 feet deep.

    GW2 wasnt a push forward for MMOs, it was just a bad copy of warhammer, Rift and Daoc, they have lost active players even more fater than D3 did. And thanks god, ESO wont be like GW2 at all. 

    This is an entirely unsupportable statement which has been disproven again and again on these forums.

    I am not a GW2 'fanboi' - I don't play GW2 anymore. But that's because it's set in a 'popcorn and bubblegum' world, not because it was a copy of the average to crapola games mentioned (except for DaoC ofc).

    Dynamic events and the fluid combat are both excellent in GW2, and they made a non-trinity model really work.

    So yes it was a push forwards, in all kinds of ways - it just didn't come together as a whole for me due to the fluff and the lack of guild features and support.

    "they made a non-trinity model really work." Are you being sarcastic? Death zerging is not a successful alternitive to the trinity model, it's embarrassingly stupid.

  • NoradXIIXNoradXIIX KarlstadPosts: 172Member

    First of all, ur topic is for ESO pvp, so that changes the subject abit from what u really had as title. 

    And for the second of all, why would it be just a GW2 clon... And the pre prestent GW2 pvp it was realm vs realm but not world pvp or a single duel... so that sucked, and ESO will have world pvp since there are 3 factions and not the previous casual 1vs1 faction. And the pvp is hard to make uniqe since pvp exists in all mmo's these days, and quite hard to make something really new about that. It's just the archtype of wich pvp battle will take place and so forth.. 

     

    For the PvE however is GW2 and for example Skyrim quite similar to the interact with the world. Without grouping up and public quest's ofcourse. But ESO will copy all Elderscrolls previous game's and skyrim is the top notch singel RPG so they will practically copy paste that part for sure, for a good reason aswell!

    SO big story short:

    Yeah in some parts it will look similar, but the pvp concept faction vs faction vs faction in ESO will rock so thats a BIG difference from GW2 where u cant even kill a player from ur own server....

    MMO-Hunter/Spethz
    Spetzzon@hotmail.com

  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eir_S

    I was listening to a video with a friend about TESO's "massive PvP zone" and everything they said sounded exactly like GW2's WvW and the promises of ANet.  Now she is the only friend of mine that was disappointed with GW2 so she tells me "Yeah but GW2 was rushed, if you do it right you can influence player behavior".

    Pretty naive if you ask me.  If there is the possibility of zerging, a zerg will happen.  And that's exactly what's going to happen in TESO.

    Didnt they say TESO's 'massive player versus player' will have a max limit of 200 players? Im pretty sure ive seen more people than that on my screen in GW2 WvWvW. I hope im wrong, does anyone know?

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member
    Originally posted by Darth-Batman
    Originally posted by Eir_S

    I was listening to a video with a friend about TESO's "massive PvP zone" and everything they said sounded exactly like GW2's WvW and the promises of ANet.  Now she is the only friend of mine that was disappointed with GW2 so she tells me "Yeah but GW2 was rushed, if you do it right you can influence player behavior".

    Pretty naive if you ask me.  If there is the possibility of zerging, a zerg will happen.  And that's exactly what's going to happen in TESO.

    Didnt they say TESO's 'massive player versus player' will have a max limit of 200 players? Im pretty sure ive seen more people than that on my screen in GW2 WvWvW. I hope im wrong, does anyone know?

    Maybe 200 people per faction?  600 Total?

    image

  • FoxxenFoxxen Fort Worth, TXPosts: 20Member

    I like how this non-trinity stuff gets brought up.  GW2 is poorly designed in Dungeons.  It needed a tank and healer combo to really survive.  Right now most that go in, try to zerg it with massive dps and that's it.  Now there are those few, I do mean few, that try and use the tools given to them.  In other words they are trying to make use of the healing and support capabilities of some of the classes and do well.  Which means it's not go in, zerg, die, re-enter, zerg, die, rinse repeate.....  Which I have been a part of many of those groups and I just quit.  I don't even bother with it.  Waste of time.

    In my opinion, any kind of MMORPG that tries to come out with a system that does not require a Tank type and Healer type for support in a Dungeon and or Raid, has severely dumb downed the challenge aspect or made it just like GW2, where all you are getting out of it is a repair bill and lots of frustration.  Thankfully there are healing capabilities in even Skyrim, saved my hiney quite a few times as well as my Follower.  But....  I would think that is something that would carry over in ESO so not worried about that.

    Dynamic Events?  GW2's idea there failed.  All it is, is a repeated or triggered event that is the exact same every time.  It doesn't change and due to the lack of any real rewards, a lot of players don't even participate in them.  There are very few players at any given event on my server at any given time.  They just don't want to bother with them because they really are just that boring.  The only ones that get attention are the ones that take over a location that you need to work in.  Those they kinda have to do to gain access to the NPC's there.  But since there really isn't any quests in the game except your class line?  Again, not many participate.  They just want to get all the objectives of the zone done and move to the next.

    ESO has a lot to offere that GW2 will never have.  Tons of Story and Lore, quests and places to discover all over the land.  Elder Scrolls has too rich of a story ( GW1 Had a lot of story, was a shame that GW2 lacked that ) for it not have a great building foundation here.  My only dread is I hate PvE zerging.  So eh, we'll see how it goes.

    Guild Leader

    The Order of Sanity

  • FoxxenFoxxen Fort Worth, TXPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by Maephisto
    Originally posted by Darth-Batman
    Originally posted by Eir_S

    I was listening to a video with a friend about TESO's "massive PvP zone" and everything they said sounded exactly like GW2's WvW and the promises of ANet.  Now she is the only friend of mine that was disappointed with GW2 so she tells me "Yeah but GW2 was rushed, if you do it right you can influence player behavior".

    Pretty naive if you ask me.  If there is the possibility of zerging, a zerg will happen.  And that's exactly what's going to happen in TESO.

    Didnt they say TESO's 'massive player versus player' will have a max limit of 200 players? Im pretty sure ive seen more people than that on my screen in GW2 WvWvW. I hope im wrong, does anyone know?

    Maybe 200 people per faction?  600 Total?

    Hard to tell really, I got on with some friends over the weekend and it was so busy out there that I didn't even see what killed me till after I was dead and a LOT of players just appeared suddenly.  That takes a lot of players in one location for that to happen to me on my computer.  That was rough!  It's not like they give us a number count per side there how many are out.  Sometimes wish they did lol!

    Guild Leader

    The Order of Sanity

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by AreQ

     

    So, will ESO be a GW2 in diverent settings? What do you guys think?

    Hopefully not.

    There is nothing in GW2 I want to see cloned in any other title.

     

    ESO should only clone previous Elder Scrolls titles and Skyrim plus adding some unique new ideas and real innovation.

     

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    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
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  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by azurrei
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Destai
    I think the features it wants to use are simply good features. Guild Wars 2 used those things because they make a great game and signify a push forward for MMOs. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a clone. From what I've read and seen, it seems a deeper game. Guild Wars 2 , while fun and large, is a large kiddy pool. It's fun, there's a water slide, but it is still 4 feet deep.

    GW2 wasnt a push forward for MMOs, it was just a bad copy of warhammer, Rift and Daoc, they have lost active players even more fater than D3 did. And thanks god, ESO wont be like GW2 at all. 

    This is an entirely unsupportable statement which has been disproven again and again on these forums.

    I am not a GW2 'fanboi' - I don't play GW2 anymore. But that's because it's set in a 'popcorn and bubblegum' world, not because it was a copy of the average to crapola games mentioned (except for DaoC ofc).

    Dynamic events and the fluid combat are both excellent in GW2, and they made a non-trinity model really work.

    So yes it was a push forwards, in all kinds of ways - it just didn't come together as a whole for me due to the fluff and the lack of guild features and support.

    "they made a non-trinity model really work." Are you being sarcastic? Death zerging is not a successful alternitive to the trinity model, it's embarrassingly stupid.

    Sometimes the trinity model is embarrassingly stupid also. In Rift it was ZERG ZERG ZERG to get through the high dungeons - what a pain. In GW2, I have one lvl 65 character and have not done any crafting for leveling - I have been playing the zones and PS and have not died - I guess there goes your zerg mentality out the window.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
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  • YhumarYhumar UhhhPosts: 7Member

    Why would they want to clone a crappy game like GW2? Like GW2 was the first game to have castle sieges anyways....

    Are we talking about the same guys who claimed healing in PvP was just about watching healthbar and therefore included no healers in their game? Those guys obviously never played a healer in a competitive PvP setting and this is why even as an avid PvP player I skipped GW2 which was supposed to be a PvP centric game.

     

  • NC-JohnNC-John burlington, WIPosts: 113Member
    It's going to be a tough sell for this team and the MMO. Scrolls fan really want skyrim online, but it's a little to late for that kind of project. this MMO is mostly done? not sure but to appease they have to fall back to promises much like Bioware did. it's just when the game fails to retain subscribers or active player base the parent company will start with the massive layoffs forcing the the orginal team to seek other employment.

    At that point it will linger without those promises being fulfilled and behind the doors it will be converted to F2P with a cash shop.

    All they had to do was mimic their own RPGs as best they could and put it online. it would have saved all the bad press angry fans and time to convert to F2P, and many jobs.

    "Not even a cray super computer can make this game run well. Thats what happens when you code an MMO in pascal. " - miglor

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    Matt Firor developed DAOC. He would NEVER produce anything as witless as GW 2's  24/7, lets see how many points we can score incessantly running around taking the same locations you took 10 minutes before,   for two weeks straight, then pretend it never happened and do it all over again !  Then...  and call it warfare.
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Shadanwolf
    Matt Firor developed DAOC.

    Mark Jacobs was the lead designer for DAOC - and we all know how WAR turned out

    hopefully Matt will have better success

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foxxen

     

    Where I feel ESO is going to come up short is the way the server is set up.  One Mega Server means everyone will just zerg through the content.  There is going to be way too many on one server for it to be any fun.  To me being on the highest populated servers in games has always been frustrating.  The one thing I miss in MMORPG's is the true Guild aspect.  No game since DAoC has done Guilds right.  There is no need to be in them, no need to form groups, no need to be a part of anything really.  I blame this one on WoW, definitely after they put in the Group Finding tools for both dungeons and raids.  They just pulled the nail on any reason once so ever to be part of a guild.

     

     

    I respect your opinion, but this is one example of why I ignore the opinions of most on these forums. For every post like this, this will be an equal number of posts that cry when there aren't enough people on the server or the server feels like ghost towns at certain levels when people zip through the content. Then we get into endless threads about merging servers, etc. Similar to when people complain about long wait times, then when there are none people say the game isn't doing well. Similar to people here who say GW2 sucks, but SWTOR sucks both for conflicting reasons..especially the sandbox crowd who will never get the kind of game they want. You just can't make these forums happy. They never will be. It's like our country, forever divided lol.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • RashmeindRashmeind Los Angeles, CAPosts: 18Member
    The sandbox crowd will be happy when ToA launches :D
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