Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

The best economy and crafting in any MMO ive played

2

Comments

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,946Member Uncommon

    The crafting in this game is "nothing special".

    SWG, Eve, Vanguard, and even Tales of the Desert (I think that is what it is/was called, I played it so long ago) are/were all significantly better.

    I would put it on par with Fallen Earth maybe.

     

    The economy is "crafting centric" as opposed to being loot centric, and that makes crafting more relevant than most games, but it does not make crafting itself any better.

    Non-variable stats on materials/finished items and lack of ability to customize anything are big problems.

     

    And further, with the limitations on xp and how crafting and other skills work without the "pills" (i.e. potions) of different types, I predict that the cash shop, when finally implemented will really, really throw a damper on things, and the specter of the dreaded "Asian Grinder" will rear its ugly head. Yet again.

     

     

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,830Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I like games where the loot economy balances the crafting economy.

    Too much on the loot side, crafting is useless. Market is dominated by farmers and gold sellers.

    Too far on the crafting side, loot is useless. Market is dominated by uber crafters that gouge prices and rape the market.

    As with all things, has to have balance...

    Just like in real life - markets have to be regulated. Pure capitalism is pure greed. Most MMO markets are not at all regulated - the only regulation comes from dev controlled scarcity (rarity) but it never does enough to combat inflation and predatory greed (and of course 3rd party currency manipulation.)

    Most MMO economies are an afterthought, and those that are not are generally designed to have clear winners and losers and don't care much about fairness or the "average" user experience.

    And any game system designed with the 10% (or 1%) in mind is NOT a well designed system.

     

    Amen Spock

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I like games where the loot economy balances the crafting economy.

    Too much on the loot side, crafting is useless. Market is dominated by farmers and gold sellers.

    Too far on the crafting side, loot is useless. Market is dominated by uber crafters that gouge prices and rape the market.

    As with all things, has to have balance...

    Just like in real life - markets have to be regulated. Pure capitalism is pure greed. Most MMO markets are not at all regulated - the only regulation comes from dev controlled scarcity (rarity) but it never does enough to combat inflation and predatory greed (and of course 3rd party currency manipulation.)

    Most MMO economies are an afterthought, and those that are not are generally designed to have clear winners and losers and don't care much about fairness or the "average" user experience.

    And any game system designed with the 10% (or 1%) in mind is NOT a well designed system.

     

    Hmm.

     

    The big money makers in AoW are rare skill books.  big as in 500silver up to about 2k silver on the super rare end(no skill is worth that much). If there is a rarity regulation tool, It's the amount of books able to be stolen during script steal events. If I'm not mistaken the amount of these books able to be stolen is being raised this coming week as part of a celebration event. 

     

    That being said the little guy makes big money with hard work. For example a fully upgraded dagger can sell for 1k silver while a top tier (for the moment during this beta) made by a good blacksmith will net about 200 silver. What I found is that I can make about 8-10 weapons per day with out buying my ore from someone else. That's at minimum about 3 hours of farming ore. 

     

    The economy is the game, it's definantly not an after thought here. Even population migration is in part tied to the economy. I'm not sure if I fully addressed you post, but this is the blend I see.

     

    As for 3rd party manipulators, the 2 (got a new one yesterday) are selling for about 1-2$ less than what snail sells for. In this game in particular it will be very hard for a seller to have an effect. There are so many anit-bot farming things in place, including pkrs.

     

    I've yet to see a bot. I see some people standing by nodes waiting for a respawn, me being the killer that I am, I ask "are you a bot" if I get no response, I attack.  8 out 10 times, I get someone saying "hey wait!!!" lol. The other 2 were most likely afk.

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    The crafting in this game is "nothing special".

    SWG, Eve, Vanguard, and even Tales of the Desert (I think that is what it is/was called, I played it so long ago) are/were all significantly better.

    I would put it on par with Fallen Earth maybe.

     

    The economy is "crafting centric" as opposed to being loot centric, and that makes crafting more relevant than most games, but it does not make crafting itself any better.

    Non-variable stats on materials/finished items and lack of ability to customize anything are big problems.

     

    And further, with the limitations on xp and how crafting and other skills work without the "pills" (i.e. potions) of different types, I predict that the cash shop, when finally implemented will really, really throw a damper on things, and the specter of the dreaded "Asian Grinder" will rear its ugly head. Yet again.

     

     

    I admit SWG galaxy had a great crafting system, top notch. It is unfortunately not around anymore. Eve also has a great, if not the greatest, crafting scene out right now...for what it is, eve takes place in space and not everyone wants to be a spaceship.

    You mention non variable stats on finished items, this is not the case.. In fact high end crafters end up playing the random game of trying to make the perfect 4 lines of enhancements to get that super item. It is variable, it is random, it is a pain. Yes you can't name items, that would be nice. There isn't a WoW style jewel crafting system in here either, that would neither be good or bad in my opinion. But in the high end the sword you make will be for a different person that the sword that other guy makes due to stat/internal/dmgvsblock variables on the weapon.

     

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,946Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak

    Originally posted by Burntvet
    The crafting in this game is "nothing special". SWG, Eve, Vanguard, and even Tales of the Desert (I think that is what it is/was called, I played it so long ago) are/were all significantly better. I would put it on par with Fallen Earth maybe.   The economy is "crafting centric" as opposed to being loot centric, and that makes crafting more relevant than most games, but it does not make crafting itself any better. Non-variable stats on materials/finished items and lack of ability to customize anything are big problems.   And further, with the limitations on xp and how crafting and other skills work without the "pills" (i.e. potions) of different types, I predict that the cash shop, when finally implemented will really, really throw a damper on things, and the specter of the dreaded "Asian Grinder" will rear its ugly head. Yet again.    

    I admit SWG galaxy had a great crafting system, top notch. It is unfortunately not around anymore. Eve also has a great, if not the greatest, crafting scene out right now...for what it is, eve takes place in space and not everyone wants to be a spaceship.

    You mention non variable stats on finished items, this is not the case.. In fact high end crafters end up playing the random game of trying to make the perfect 4 lines of enhancements to get that super item. It is variable, it is random, it is a pain. Yes you can't name items, that would be nice. There isn't a WoW style jewel crafting system in here either, that would neither be good or bad in my opinion. But in the high end the sword you make will be for a different person that the sword that other guy makes due to stat/internal/dmgvsblock variables on the weapon.

     

     

    Technically correct, but random at that point is not much fun: even there every max stat/line weapon will be the same. No room for naming or changing the color or appearance of anything. And again, the more important part of viable stats would be from the non-standard values of resources/components/ingredients, but all of that is not there... just a random roll, sometimes, at the end of things giving a small random difference on a predetermined stat bar inside a bunch of "sameness". In the end, it is a small enough bit to say "So What?"
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Burntvet

     

     

    Technically correct, but random at that point is not much fun: even there every max stat/line weapon will be the same. No room for naming or changing the color or appearance of anything. And again, the more important part of viable stats would be from the non-standard values of resources/components/ingredients, but all of that is not there... just a random roll, sometimes, at the end of things giving a small random difference on a predetermined stat bar inside a bunch of "sameness". In the end, it is a small enough bit to say "So What?"

    Stat lines are different depending on the crafter. It would be neat to change color and apperance though :)

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by GrayKodiak
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    The crafting in this game is "nothing special".

    SWG, Eve, Vanguard, and even Tales of the Desert (I think that is what it is/was called, I played it so long ago) are/were all significantly better.

    I would put it on par with Fallen Earth maybe.

     

    The economy is "crafting centric" as opposed to being loot centric, and that makes crafting more relevant than most games, but it does not make crafting itself any better.

    Non-variable stats on materials/finished items and lack of ability to customize anything are big problems.

     

    And further, with the limitations on xp and how crafting and other skills work without the "pills" (i.e. potions) of different types, I predict that the cash shop, when finally implemented will really, really throw a damper on things, and the specter of the dreaded "Asian Grinder" will rear its ugly head. Yet again.

     

     

    I admit SWG galaxy had a great crafting system, top notch. It is unfortunately not around anymore. Eve also has a great, if not the greatest, crafting scene out right now...for what it is, eve takes place in space and not everyone wants to be a spaceship.

    You mention non variable stats on finished items, this is not the case.. In fact high end crafters end up playing the random game of trying to make the perfect 4 lines of enhancements to get that super item. It is variable, it is random, it is a pain. Yes you can't name items, that would be nice. There isn't a WoW style jewel crafting system in here either, that would neither be good or bad in my opinion. But in the high end the sword you make will be for a different person that the sword that other guy makes due to stat/internal/dmgvsblock variables on the weapon.

     

     

    Technically correct, but random at that point is not much fun: even there every max stat/line weapon will be the same. No room for naming or changing the color or appearance of anything. And again, the more important part of viable stats would be from the non-standard values of resources/components/ingredients, but all of that is not there... just a random roll, sometimes, at the end of things giving a small random difference on a predetermined stat bar inside a bunch of "sameness". In the end, it is a small enough bit to say "So What?"

    I have to wonder if you have crafted a high end item and tried to fit it to what you actually want. It is not easy.

    Lets say you make a sword, there is a chance that it will be good enough quality to enhance so you go find a cook and he enhances it, then there is a chance that after that it may get another enhancement...so you find a blacksmith to enhance it...then there is a chance that after that second chance you may be able to enhance it again...so you find another cook...then...well you get the idea, the hard part is that you don't get to control the enhancement. You may get a weapon enhancement, you may get a scholar skill enhancement or a wudang skill enhancement, you may get a block breaking enhancement. So if you want a sword with enhanced block breaker x 3 and enhancement to the breeze sword line...well good luck your gonna need a lot of ore a lot of silver a lot of enhancement mats and a lot of luck.

    Variables based on resources would be interesting but probably not going to happen. I do like cosmetic changes on items, you rarely see MMO's these days inclue a "Dye" option which would be nice. Lotro has one, UO had a few different methods of changing color (either ore or dye depending on item).

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    I'm glad you found a game you like, but I'm really getting tired of MMOs forcing the majority if not all of the loot rewards into a singular play style while denying it to others.  I think it's a better approach to reward all play styles equally, that way people can get the rewards they want in the manner they want, instead of being funneled into raiding or completely dependent on crafters which in turn reduces the rewarding feeling of adventuring or giving it all to the PvPers.  I'm still waiting for a game that isn't purposefully creating caste systems among its player base.

    image
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    I'm glad you found a game you like, but I'm really getting tired of MMOs forcing the majority if not all of the loot rewards into a singular play style while denying it to others.  I think it's a better approach to reward all play styles equally, that way people can get the rewards they want in the manner they want, instead of being funneled into raiding or completely dependent on crafters which in turn reduces the rewarding feeling of adventuring or giving it all to the PvPers.  I'm still waiting for a game that isn't purposefully creating caste systems among its player base.

    It's pretty wild the number of times I've heard people describe a thing, and AoW be exactly that, or real close too. 

     

    Here for example you don't weapon drops or clothing well, you do get clothing from random world chest. You make it or buy/trade for it. Everything else is just about exactly as you would like.

     

    edit- no hard caste systems either ;)

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    I'm glad you found a game you like, but I'm really getting tired of MMOs forcing the majority if not all of the loot rewards into a singular play style while denying it to others.  I think it's a better approach to reward all play styles equally, that way people can get the rewards they want in the manner they want, instead of being funneled into raiding or completely dependent on crafters which in turn reduces the rewarding feeling of adventuring or giving it all to the PvPers.  I'm still waiting for a game that isn't purposefully creating caste systems among its player base.

    It's pretty wild the number of times I've heard people describe a thing, and AoW be exactly that, or real close too. 

     

    Here for example you don't weapon drops or clothing well, you do get clothing from random world chest. You make it or buy/trade for it. Everything else is just about exactly as you would like.

     

    edit- no hard caste systems either ;)

    I'm sorry, but how do clothing drops equate to viability of loot for people who only want to adventure?  It would seem that whether you PvP, Adventure or Explore, you are still completely dependent on crafters for the majority of items you need to participate in those endeavors, such as weapons, armor, potions and whatever else the game requires for them.  They are merely taking the raiding paradigm and putting it into crafting instead.  At least in those raiding games, you could still get decent rewards for most play styles before you reached end game.  Doesn't sound like you do in this game, it sounds just like Horizons where all of the drops are crafting related and I hated that game for that very reason.

    image
  • Sal1Sal1 Twin Cities, MNPosts: 183Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    I'm sorry, but how do clothing drops equate to viability of loot for people who only want to adventure?  It would seem that whether you PvP, Adventure or Explore, you are still completely dependent on crafters for the majority of items you need to participate in those endeavors, such as weapons, armor, potions and whatever else the game requires for them.  They are merely taking the raiding paradigm and putting it into crafting instead.  At least in those raiding games, you could still get decent rewards for most play styles before you reached end game.  Doesn't sound like you do in this game, it sounds just like Horizons where all of the drops are crafting related and I hated that game for that very reason.

    You do get very valuable drops from dungeon runs or raids or whatever you want to call them in Age of Wushu. You won't get a high level sword. But you will get items that you can sell for good amounts of silver then turn around and buy that nice high level sword. I realize that adds steps you don't care to do. But you can play this game without crafting a single thing.

  • SpiiderSpiider BinzPosts: 474Member Uncommon
    So age of wushu crafting is better than Wurm, Salem, Xsyon and Istaria crafting? Any player build housing of terraforming?

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Vorthanion

    What you describe would go against the idea of the game, i.e. to have a player-run economy. If you could get good stuff no matter what you do, crafters wouldn't be needed, people would be self-sufficient, and the economy would be dead. Someone would find the least resistance route to fast gear and everyone would just grind away at that until the whole server are equally equipped.

    And besides it's not like you have to be a crafter in this game, you just have to interact with crafters once in a while. You're free to do whatever you want, you just need to make money somehow - which is very doable without crafting a single item.
  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    They are merely taking the raiding paradigm and putting it into crafting instead.  At least in those raiding games, you could still get decent rewards for most play styles before you reached end game. 

    AoW isn't much different in concept from any average game, it is basically usual end game content - dunegon/raiding and PVP, without quest progression.

    And crafting reflects and fits that scheme.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,477Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by plescure

    There is so much to do in Age of Wushu that it is mind boggling!

    However 80% of the game i have still yet to experience because im so addicted to the economy of this game. The crafting/econmy combo is sooo well done. ive probably put 100+ hours into silk farming and i obsessively ensure that my market stall is up and running at all hours possible.  i even found myself logging on at 4am after getting up for a pee just so i could reset my market stall (they stop after 4 hours offline)

    The crafting also is unique and complex compared to your standard MMO with mini games that initially sounded a bit cheesy but i now find them very enjoyable.

    If becoming a virtual millionaire is your thing i heartily reccomend you take a look

     Maybe what you say is true.  The trend of late is that people hype games too much.  When you wrote greatest, I hear an exaggeration is following.  I refuse to allow a post like yours to hype up an expectation about a game.

     

    We need to stop playing the role of salesman for games.  Force them to do it rather than give it away for free.

  • SpiiderSpiider BinzPosts: 474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Spiider
    So age of wushu crafting is better than Wurm, Salem, Xsyon and Istaria crafting? Any player build housing of terraforming?

    So has anyone who is playing wushu played any of the games above?

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by plescure

    There is so much to do in Age of Wushu that it is mind boggling!

    However 80% of the game i have still yet to experience because im so addicted to the economy of this game. The crafting/econmy combo is sooo well done. ive probably put 100+ hours into silk farming and i obsessively ensure that my market stall is up and running at all hours possible.  i even found myself logging on at 4am after getting up for a pee just so i could reset my market stall (they stop after 4 hours offline)

    The crafting also is unique and complex compared to your standard MMO with mini games that initially sounded a bit cheesy but i now find them very enjoyable.

    If becoming a virtual millionaire is your thing i heartily reccomend you take a look

     Maybe what you say is true.  The trend of late is that people hype games too much.  When you wrote greatest, I hear an exaggeration is following.  I refuse to allow a post like yours to hype up an expectation about a game.

     

    We need to stop playing the role of salesman for games.  Force them to do it rather than give it away for free.


    Writing greatest in any title on MMORPG is bound to attract the detractors. The arm chair critics who like to tear down any game, from swtor to GW2 to TSW to AoW, because the idea that anyone could be enjoying the game is mind boggling if it doesn't have feature x.

     Then you get the crowd that pulls out crazy references to bygone eras or niche products because you put in "Greatest". "WoW has the greatest cooking? What?! Have you never played Cooking Mama?!"

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Spiider
    Originally posted by Spiider
    So age of wushu crafting is better than Wurm, Salem, Xsyon and Istaria crafting? Any player build housing of terraforming?

    So has anyone who is playing wushu played any of the games above?

    From the way some of them hype this game, I really don't think they've played many MMOs outside of the WOW-style ones. They are mystified - mind-boggled, even - by even the slightest deviation from the Blizzard Standard.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Spiider
    Originally posted by Spiider
    So age of wushu crafting is better than Wurm, Salem, Xsyon and Istaria crafting? Any player build housing of terraforming?

    So has anyone who is playing wushu played any of the games above?

    From the way some of them hype this game, I really don't think they've played many MMOs outside of the WOW-style ones. They are mystified - mind-boggled, even - by even the slightest deviation from the Blizzard Standard.

    Is it still hype when people are talking about their experience while playing? Isn't hype more like the run up to swtor,  gw2, & teso, fueled by multi million dollar add campaigns? When people say glowing things before they even play the beta? When you say hype this is what I think of. 

     

    I do agree with you that Wushu has deviated from the "Blizzard Standard" though image

  • SpiiderSpiider BinzPosts: 474Member Uncommon

    So much hype looks to me like paid hype, same as what we had when swtor was launched with bazillion blogs and youtube videos glorifying  it as the "best ever in whatever".

    I dare to bet that age of wushu's crafting is sub par compared to real crafting games like wurm, xsyon, salem, istaria and swg. Comparing it in any way with those games would be silly. Maybe it's crafting is better than wow yet that is also not saying much.

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    If only all of us could find an MMO we love and quit bashing those who like a particular style.  While I do not like this game. grats for finding a game you enjoy.  My game is Neverwinter and I can't wait to play.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Spiider

    So much hype looks to me like paid hype, same as what we had when swtor was launched with bazillion blogs and youtube videos glorifying  it as the "best ever in whatever".

    I dare to bet that age of wushu's crafting is sub par compared to real crafting games like wurm, xsyon, salem, istaria and swg. Comparing it in any way with those games would be silly. Maybe it's crafting is better than wow yet that is also not saying much.

    You dare to bet? Have you played Wurm? I have.

    They are not even the same type of experience....and Salem...are you kidding? Why not just bring in Second Life as well? It hands down has the best crafting of any game ever made. Since you literally just build stuff from nothing to your hearts desire.

     

    edit: I am not knocking Salem it looks like a fine isometric top down crafting game, but why you keep bringing it up here I do not know.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Elsabolts

    If your into crafting take alook at Vanguard ?

    image

    In other words: He's found something he really enjoys and has amazing economy features with a healthy population, and you're telling him to instead play a game with very few players that he might not enjoy.

    How about, he is having great fun with the game he's playing, he should continue to play it instead?

    Or is that too perplexing a concept?

    El Psy Congroo

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Spiider
    Originally posted by Spiider
    So age of wushu crafting is better than Wurm, Salem, Xsyon and Istaria crafting? Any player build housing of terraforming?

    So has anyone who is playing wushu played any of the games above?

    From the way some of them hype this game, I really don't think they've played many MMOs outside of the WOW-style ones. They are mystified - mind-boggled, even - by even the slightest deviation from the Blizzard Standard.

    Is it still hype when people are talking about their experience while playing? Isn't hype more like the run up to swtor,  gw2, & teso, fueled by multi million dollar add campaigns? When people say glowing things before they even play the beta? When you say hype this is what I think of. 

     

    I do agree with you that Wushu has deviated from the "Blizzard Standard" though image

    Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of great posts about the game that are clearly enthusiasm for a great game. However, the OP just seems so completely overboard, no?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami


    Hehe, I like your enthusiasm but simply - No.

    How does no fit into this? The best economy and crafting in any MMO ive played

    Notice the part in red..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

2
Sign In or Register to comment.