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How the Developers are out of touch.....

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  • endgame1endgame1 Member Posts: 84
    Originally posted by ZigZags

     

    at 0:27 Matt Firor thinks they are bringing two different types of players together into one game. As a result they are mixing TES features with "popular" MMO features that two different players will be familiar with and like. This is so not true at all. Of the 27 friends on my Steam list that play TES series, all of them play MMO games as well. These are the same player base. Not two different. By adding features like, instances, short term instanced battlegrounds, factions, zone locks etc. they think they will combine the two player bases together. They don't understand that the two are one and the same and are sick and tired of instanced zones, short term battlegrounds, zone locks and lack of freedom.

     

     

     

    I have to agree with this completely, they are the same player base.

     

    If you were reading the World of Warcraft forums back when Skyrim was released, the amount of "arrow to the knee" jokes over there was out of control, and even the CM's got into it a bit. Lots of "Fus Roh Dah" going on too. The initial excitement surrounding Skyrim's release was evident from a fairly large chunk of themepark mmo gamers who have an online presence. People who like the typical MMO type experience also enjoy what the Elder Scrolls games offer, even if it's a very different type of rpg experience. 

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Member Posts: 2,083
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

    I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

    Yet to see such the thing though...

    Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • ibn_Cartwellibn_Cartwell Member Posts: 47

    I think the point of making a world "open world' pvp ready, applies to making great PVE worlds, no one likes being ran along the instanced zone chain!

     

    also I saw someone comment that these "mega servers" will with different "shards" withen will encourage players to find other random players, friends not included, but what it actually does it make it so you might see Billy bob one time once you start, but when you both log in the next day there is almost zero chance of meeting Billy bob in the world again.

  • ibn_Cartwellibn_Cartwell Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

    I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

    Yet to see such the thing though...

    Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

    Asheron's Calls open world, and has a PVP server, what discourages ganking is actual communites with benefits that create strong allegiances!

     

    As for corpse jumping, AC has a simple mechanic, after death you are sent to your lifestone, and you are invulnerable till you take action, you are also Non-PK for a limited time ( 5 minutes I believe ), which makes it so you can grab your corpse and procede on.

     

    AC also had good death mechanics check them out, should be in every game

    ~ http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/Death

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

    I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

    Yet to see such the thing though...

    Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

    Asheron's Calls open world, and has a PVP server, what discourages ganking is actual communites with benefits that create strong allegiances!

     

    As for corpse jumping, AC has a simple mechanic, after death you are sent to your lifestone, and you are invulnerable till you take action, you are also Non-PK for a limited time ( 5 minutes I believe ), which makes it so you can grab your corpse and procede on.

     

    AC also had good death mechanics check them out, should be in every game

    ~ http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/Death

    "Good"? Compared to what? ^^ I played AC for two years near launch. It was a fun game for its time, but I've no interest what so ever in going back to corpse runs, lost items and all of the rest that goes with it.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    This game is fail for a simple reason. Elder Scrolls game has always been about freedom and this game simply is not. It boxes you into one of three factions and there is nothing you can do to switch factions.

    Basically this game will be another linear ThemePark which funnels you from zone to zone and PvP in a separate zone. Completely against the open ended philosophy which is used in most Elder Scrolls game. Epic fail.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
    Just by making it a theme park they are so out of touch. You don't make an Elder Scrolls mmo for the casual mmo player you make it a mmo for Elder Scrolls fans.  Once again, all about profit and less about quality.
    30
  • jtcgsjtcgs Member Posts: 1,777
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

    I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

    Yet to see such the thing though...

    Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

    Asheron's Calls open world, and has a PVP server, what discourages ganking is actual communites with benefits that create strong allegiances!

     

    As for corpse jumping, AC has a simple mechanic, after death you are sent to your lifestone, and you are invulnerable till you take action, you are also Non-PK for a limited time ( 5 minutes I believe ), which makes it so you can grab your corpse and procede on.

     

    AC also had good death mechanics check them out, should be in every game

    ~ http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/Death

    "Good"? Compared to what? ^^ I played AC for two years near launch. It was a fun game for its time, but I've no interest what so ever in going back to corpse runs, lost items and all of the rest that goes with it.

     Read the quotes...good compared to the FFA-OW-PVP being spoken about...the game had a death penalty that was an ACTUAL penalty, not this barely slap on the wrist there is today. It gives more meaning to the fight than, its ok if I die because I can just come right back and die again x10000 and it wont cost me much of anything but time spent.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • silent-jonessilent-jones Member Posts: 28
    I understand the fear of PVE players getting KOS all the time in a open world free pvp game. But this would be easy to fix, just by installing hard penalties for murder, such as getting flagged and marked as a penaltyfree kill with the option to drop loot und loose a greater amount of experience, maybe also the threat of deleveling. Lineage 2 is doing it that way and its awesome. Its the most exciting mmo ever made and it has no zoning at all. Just free and open and addictive, exactly what a mmo should be.
  • sapphensapphen Member UncommonPosts: 911
    Originally posted by silent-jones
    I understand the fear of PVE players getting KOS all the time in a open world free pvp game. But this would be easy to fix, just by installing hard penalties for murder, such as getting flagged and marked as a penaltyfree kill with the option to drop loot und loose a greater amount of experience, maybe also the threat of deleveling. Lineage 2 is doing it that way and its awesome. Its the most exciting mmo ever made and it has no zoning at all. Just free and open and addictive, exactly what a mmo should be.

    I would like to see the guards throw murderous players in jail for 6-12 hours (real time).  You can still log in but you're character is stuck inside a small cell or prison yard with other players/npcs as inmates.  Sentencing depends on how frequent of a violator and could be up to a week in jail.

    I also think they shouldn't make it easy to kill someone.  Have an unconscious state that you can defeat someone and walk away without a huge penalty.
  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Originally posted by ibn_Cartwell
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    I agree with most points - but the 'hunger' for the utter garbage that is FFA-OW-PVP is wrong - it's a niche demand by overly-vocal pond dwellers who list their interests as ganking and corpse jumping. 

    I would love to have OW-PVP - but with a strong consequences system which really laid the boot in when people kicked the arse out of it.

    Yet to see such the thing though...

    Hire this man! But seriously, vocal minorities ruin games left and right these days.

    Asheron's Calls open world, and has a PVP server, what discourages ganking is actual communites with benefits that create strong allegiances!

     

    As for corpse jumping, AC has a simple mechanic, after death you are sent to your lifestone, and you are invulnerable till you take action, you are also Non-PK for a limited time ( 5 minutes I believe ), which makes it so you can grab your corpse and procede on.

     

    AC also had good death mechanics check them out, should be in every game

    ~ http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/Death

    "Good"? Compared to what? ^^ I played AC for two years near launch. It was a fun game for its time, but I've no interest what so ever in going back to corpse runs, lost items and all of the rest that goes with it.

     Read the quotes...good compared to the FFA-OW-PVP being spoken about...the game had a death penalty that was an ACTUAL penalty, not this barely slap on the wrist there is today. It gives more meaning to the fight than, its ok if I die because I can just come right back and die again x10000 and it wont cost me much of anything but time spent.

    As I mentioned, I played the game for around two years at launch... I'm rather familiar with the death penalty system... ^^

    I also stated that I'd have NO interest what so ever in going back to that type of system. Why? Because I do not need anything like that type of system, and it ISN'T fun *to me*. 

    I'm in these games for the entertainment, not for some sense of "challenge".  There is a fine line between challenging, and frustrating, and unfortunately all too many Dev's don't seem to understand the difference.  I can *tolerate* a game that is challenging. I have rather little patience for ones that are frustrating.

    As for cost, even in a game like WoW, if you try zerging something, in even semi decent gear, its going to cost you quite a bit of gold.  Unless you actually like running mindless dailies over and over and over, you don't do that.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • MothanosMothanos Member UncommonPosts: 1,910

    Iam totaly done with Fantasy themeparks - they offer nothing what we dint played in the last decade.
    I wanted to give it a try but its just another carebear themepark with a twitch here and there.

    PvP will be alot like GW2 - Arcade pvp where each day is the same - take this lose that take this lose that rinse and repeat for god knows how long.

    Heared that Archeage might not be much diffrent and i realy hoped a epic sandbox came out soonish.
    Seems that Developers lost any sense of creating new stuff.

    CBA with it anymore after all the copy pasting mmo's of the last decade.

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Look, yet another "this game will fail because I DON'T LIKE the path it's going" post. The amount of self-righteousness in these boards is just mind-boggling.
  • trash656trash656 Member UncommonPosts: 361
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    My biggest concern about an IP that I grew up with and love is that the developers are so out of touch with reality that they are heading down a path similar to what BioWare did with SWTOR. Based on what we know today, I believe TESO will havea  fate similar to SWTOR. Huge budget, exciting for the first 30-90 days, then drop off and fail status shortly after.

    Spoken like a saint. You are the man Zigzags, and I agree the developers are completly out of touch now a days in general for "ALL" MMO's

    Actions speak louder then words, and their actions say They are only interested in making a quick buck and then grabbing that money too fund their next project. I understand games were always made for profit and money, but back in the day I remember Developers made MMO's in the spirit of gaming itself, they loved to game and roleplay. I believe this generation of Developers are out of touch with everything, including the gamers as well. I am a musician, vocalist and artist in real life, and I've always believed that an artists work will best show in his hard work, and from what I've seen for the past 5 years in most of these MMO's is that there isn't very much creativity at all, just a bunch of formula's from other peoples idea's plastered into something new to make a quick buck. This isn't something that has just happened it's been going on for almost over 8 years now.

     

    A lot of the adults who used to play MMO's don't anymore, because the MMO's have become more like action games over roleplaying games. Not to mention how easy things are and how everything is handed out for doing nothing.

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    (...)

    you know you can do those:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1_Fr6VF_1LA#t=484s ?

     

    (which would be your "at 8:04" link)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • trash656trash656 Member UncommonPosts: 361
    Originally posted by Shodanas
    Look, yet another "this game will fail because I DON'T LIKE the path it's going" post. The amount of self-righteousness in these boards is just mind-boggling.

     Although I don't agree with everything he stated as well, You sound kind of like a Bigot, because These boards are used to discuss each others opinions on things and have an intellectual disscussion between others who have differn't points of veiw. It's just someones opinion. If he was being self-rightous he would be swearing at people and calling them names simply because he didn't agree with them (which he isn't doing)

    He is simply discusssing something with other people to see and to try to understand other peoples point of veiw. Maybe you should actually read what he has to say instead of labling people here 'Self Righteous" just for having a voice. He even listed his points with positive idea's. Which is good.

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by trash656
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    My biggest concern about an IP that I grew up with and love is that the developers are so out of touch with reality that they are heading down a path similar to what BioWare did with SWTOR. Based on what we know today, I believe TESO will havea  fate similar to SWTOR. Huge budget, exciting for the first 30-90 days, then drop off and fail status shortly after.

    Spoken like a saint. You are the man Zigzags, and I agree the developers are completly out of touch now a days in general for "ALL" MMO's

    Actions speak louder then words, and their actions say They are only interested in making a quick buck and then grabbing that money too fund their next project. I understand games were always made for profit and money, but back in the day I remember Developers made MMO's in the spirit of gaming itself, they loved to game and roleplay. I believe this generation of Developers are out of touch with everything, including the gamers as well. I am a musician, vocalist and artist in real life, and I've always believed that an artists work will best show in his hard work, and from what I've seen for the past 5 years in most of these MMO's is that there isn't very much creativity at all, just a bunch of formula's from other peoples idea's plastered into something new to make a quick buck. This isn't something that has just happened it's been going on for almost over 8 years now.

     

    A lot of the adults who used to play MMO's don't anymore, because the MMO's have become more like action games over roleplaying games. Not to mention how easy things are and how everything is handed out for doing nothing.

    Its to be expected at this phase of the gaming cycle.  In the start, you had the vast majority of Dev's and their staff, doing this, because they loved the games they created.  It was that pride of craftsmanship that drove the games that we all loved.

    But that demonstrated that there was money to be be made in these games... That attracted the attention of the suits, and their investors. 

    Said investors really only care about the ROI (Return On Investment) they can get.  Thus the suits ended up making many of the important decisions (the investors wouldn't trust mere Dev's with the huge amounts of money involved, nor truth be known should they... ^^).

    Thus began the phase of the mass production of games, that we've seen so much of over the last few years. 

    Thats why Kickstarter holds some promise. If we can get back to funding the Dev's themselves, and cut the suits/investors out of the loop, perhaps we can see some games that are actually fun again.  "Its a fools hope, but its the only hope we have"...

     

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    at 8:04 This is what GW2 did and is totally stupid and is what happens when you force and funnel people to a PVP area. Rather than giving us an open world we can PVP in at any level which is what we haven't seen in a while and is something I think most of s hunger for. Zenimax is failing hard here.

     

    You do realize that both DAoC and WoW both were very successful with having battlegrounds. That's right I said DAoC which many consider one of the best PvP oriented MMOs to date.

    I'll concede to world pvp being a fun feature a lot of people (not all) would like to see in a MMO but outside special servers, not even DAoC had world PvP, except for a few people that were able to exploit themselves past the realm guards. World PvP was in seperate areas which is as good as having an instanced area. I don't really see the difference

     

    You don't need to have World PvP to have a successful game

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,392

    The decision makers on SWTOR  had  N E V E R made a mmog...ever. And you wonder why they failed ?

    The ESOL  decision maker Matt Firor has built mmog from the ground up .In fact one of his first creations is still going after 10 years....DAOC.

     

    So I think the belief that ESOL will follow the footsteps of SWTOR (who has taken steps to drive other groups(myself included)away from the game, with their insistance on same sex "companions" , doesn't hold up in my book.

  • trash656trash656 Member UncommonPosts: 361
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Originally posted by trash656
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    My biggest concern about an IP that I grew up with and love is that the developers are so out of touch with reality that they are heading down a path similar to what BioWare did with SWTOR. Based on what we know today, I believe TESO will havea  fate similar to SWTOR. Huge budget, exciting for the first 30-90 days, then drop off and fail status shortly after.

    Spoken like a saint. You are the man Zigzags, and I agree the developers are completly out of touch now a days in general for "ALL" MMO's

    Actions speak louder then words, and their actions say They are only interested in making a quick buck and then grabbing that money too fund their next project. I understand games were always made for profit and money, but back in the day I remember Developers made MMO's in the spirit of gaming itself, they loved to game and roleplay. I believe this generation of Developers are out of touch with everything, including the gamers as well. I am a musician, vocalist and artist in real life, and I've always believed that an artists work will best show in his hard work, and from what I've seen for the past 5 years in most of these MMO's is that there isn't very much creativity at all, just a bunch of formula's from other peoples idea's plastered into something new to make a quick buck. This isn't something that has just happened it's been going on for almost over 8 years now.

     

    A lot of the adults who used to play MMO's don't anymore, because the MMO's have become more like action games over roleplaying games. Not to mention how easy things are and how everything is handed out for doing nothing.

    Its to be expected at this phase of the gaming cycle.  In the start, you had the vast majority of Dev's and their staff, doing this, because they loved the games they created.  It was that pride of craftsmanship that drove the games that we all loved.

    But that demonstrated that there was money to be be made in these games... That attracted the attention of the suits, and their investors. 

    Said investors really only care about the ROI (Return On Investment) they can get.  Thus the suits ended up making many of the important decisions (the investors wouldn't trust mere Dev's with the huge amounts of money involved, nor truth be known should they... ^^).

    Thus began the phase of the mass production of games, that we've seen so much of over the last few years. 

    Thats why Kickstarter holds some promise. If we can get back to funding the Dev's themselves, and cut the suits/investors out of the loop, perhaps we can see some games that are actually fun again.  "Its a fools hope, but its the only hope we have"...

     

    good post and very informative Wraithone. Looking it that way I guess I can see why it's become the way it has. You remember back in the day when Pepsi came out with that Pepsi clear? And no one could understand why they were trying to change something that was already good? It's like that with all these games now. They always try to change something that was already good to begin with. They didn't need to change it, they could of just built upon it and added, instead of changing.

     

    It's like having some stupid jackass coming in trying to change the flavor of Coca-Cola when it's already good to begin with.

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