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B2P: The Trojan Horse of MMOs?

Camaro68Camaro68 Daytona, FLPosts: 50Member

This is the story of Developer X and Gamer Joe:

 

Developer X announces that it's upcoming game, Trojan Horses 2, will not have a sub fee.  Just buy the box and its yours to play for life with no sub fee whatsoever. 

 

Launch day arrives and millions of players buy Trojan Horses 2 with visions of NO SUB FEE dancing in their head.  Developer X announces millions in sales.

 

A few months later Gamer Joe is a little late to the party and decides to buy Trojan Horses 2 with a warm fuzzy feeling toward Developer X because there's NO SUB FEE.

 

But then Gamer Joe logs into Trojan Horses 2 and finds there's hardly anybody in the game.  Wondering why he's playing a Massively Multiplayer game with hardly anybody in it, he turns to a internet message forum for answers.

He explains how he logged into the game and had trouble finding anybody to group with. 

Fanboy Y says Developer X is doing fine because it made all its money back with box sales.  He goes on to explain that Trojan Horses 2 doesn't need players to actually keep playing because all it ever needed was alot of box sales to be successful.

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Comments

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon

    Well this is obviously about GW2..

    It's a fail post though for the simple fact that ANet are still updating the game, supporting the game and want to make it bigger and better... all for free I might add.

    They want people to stick around.

     

    Then, there is this issue of it being treated differently because it's an MMO. Games like, say, dead space are totally left on their own after release with no free content updates whatsoever.. not even a proper patching schedule. The same amount of money crossed hands for the box sale.. yet everyone thinks they are entitled to more than in other BTP games because it's an MMO. With GW2 and TSW there has already been more free stuff given, more content playable and more bug fixes than 99% of ALL other BTP games. I certainly don't remember Christmas and halloween events in Skyrim.. or Dragon Age... you sound like you don't even understand what you are getting for free with BTP MMOs.

    ALL BTP games should be compared to OTHER BTP games. A BTP MMO is clearly more value than any other game on the market, regardless of payment model.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Hehe you made me laugh or maybe I made me laugh.

    I was imagining while reading the punchline to be that you buy one game and a different set of players from another game are released later in the game.

    Wait!  That did happen.

    It was called GW2. They sold the game as B2P and horizontal progression like their previous game. All the press talked about how the game would take everything you loved from GW and improve on it. Then they let out the troops and introduced the vertical progression. They even then said... well, we never said we WOULDN'T do horizontal progression... we just plan on doing it sloooowly. No, you only said that the game would be like your previous game that didn't use vertical gear progression as content. You didn't say that at all, nope, sure didn't. <--- sarcasm. That hope kept some of the fans on board because they can justify that they will be able to keep up. I actually saw them start supporting it lol

    Their trojan horse was the gear grinding junkies that came along to support that idea so indeed, they got box sales from both groups. Too bad you can't repeat something like that more than once eh.

    If they were to suddenly go sandbox next year, that's their only horsey left unused me thinks.

    This song is perfect for the thread or is all just a bad episode of Jerry Springer where you find out that your girlfriend is really a transexual pre-op with no plan to operate. Yeah, more like the latter because she presented one thing and delivered another then took the conversation to Reddit to open it up to you because discussing it at home would be too confrontational.

  • AgentAnarkiiAgentAnarkii Bassett, VAPosts: 173Member
    Originally posted by eyelolled
     [mod edit]

    image This made me literally lol

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Camaro68
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Originally posted by Camaro68
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    I think Gamerjoe should go on the forums and post about how he hates TrojanHorse 2 hoping maybe that someone might actually want to come and play Freemium Wars: Hotbar Hostage Republic

    So NCsoft has your money.  Congradulations.

    Aww. I didn't mean to ruin your funnin. Don't be a sad camaro.

    Oh I'm fine.  If you're looking for something to do I'm sure Anet would appreciate hearing some of your player retention ideas.

    bah, they don't need me to say "keep up the good work" the ton of awards the game won like Game of the Year, MMO of the Year, RPG of the Year and so on from multiple sites should tell them enough.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Well this is obviously about GW2..

     

     

    It can't be about GW2.   GW2 uses the P2W business model (cash shop) and has a box price.  

  • Dantae87Dantae87 Camloops, ABPosts: 166Member
    i find it funny how GW2 was the most talked about game towards the end of 2012...now you hardly hear a wisper from it...its one of thouse games that slowly faded away...like GW1...only the devoted fans will stick to it...and it will end up just like GW1 did...devoted fan base with no income of new players...we can only hope that 2013 is a much better year for mmos...

    image

  • romanator0romanator0 Glendora, CAPosts: 2,382Member
    Originally posted by Dantae87
    i find it funny how GW2 was the most talked about game towards the end of 2012...now you hardly hear a wisper from it...its one of thouse games that slowly faded away...like GW1...only the devoted fans will stick to it...and it will end up just like GW1 did...devoted fan base with no income of new players...we can only hope that 2013 is a much better year for mmos...

    You sure? I still hear quite a bit about it. Whenever I hear people talk about MMOs it's usually about GW2. 

    image

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by romanator0
    Originally posted by Dantae87
    i find it funny how GW2 was the most talked about game towards the end of 2012...now you hardly hear a wisper from it...its one of thouse games that slowly faded away...like GW1...only the devoted fans will stick to it...and it will end up just like GW1 did...devoted fan base with no income of new players...we can only hope that 2013 is a much better year for mmos...

    You sure? I still hear quite a bit about it. Whenever I hear people talk about MMOs it's usually about GW2. 

    just take a peek at the front page.. look at the most popular games and click on 1 month and look at the hits GW2 is getting compared to any other game... seems pretty popular here still to me.. and winning these MMO and PC game of the year awards isn't hurting either:)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Dantae87Dantae87 Camloops, ABPosts: 166Member
    Originally posted by romanator0
    Originally posted by Dantae87
    i find it funny how GW2 was the most talked about game towards the end of 2012...now you hardly hear a wisper from it...its one of thouse games that slowly faded away...like GW1...only the devoted fans will stick to it...and it will end up just like GW1 did...devoted fan base with no income of new players...we can only hope that 2013 is a much better year for mmos...

    You sure? I still hear quite a bit about it. Whenever I hear people talk about MMOs it's usually about GW2. 

    this is actually the first topic i read about it this year to be honest...i no one personally that plays GW2...so i dont hear much about it and that is how i like it...the lost my support of GW1 so they dont get anything from me for GW2.

    image

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dantae87
    i find it funny how GW2 was the most talked about game towards the end of 2012...now you hardly hear a wisper from it...its one of thouse games that slowly faded away...like GW1...only the devoted fans will stick to it...and it will end up just like GW1 did...devoted fan base with no income of new players...we can only hope that 2013 is a much better year for mmos...

    This was sarcasm right?  As we all know sarcasm is hard to read in text.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Camaro68

    This is the story of Developer X and Gamer Joe:

     

    Developer X announces that it's upcoming game, Trojan Horses 2, will not have a sub fee.  Just buy the box and its yours to play for life with no sub fee whatsoever. 

     

    Launch day arrives and millions of players buy Trojan Horses 2 with visions of NO SUB FEE dancing in their head.  Developer X announces millions in sales.

     

    A few months later Gamer Joe is a little late to the party and decides to buy Trojan Horses 2 with a warm fuzzy feeling toward Developer X because there's NO SUB FEE.

     

    But then Gamer Joe logs into Trojan Horses 2 and finds there's hardly anybody in the game.  Wondering why he's playing a Massively Multiplayer game with hardly anybody in it, he turns to a internet message forum for answers.

    He explains how he logged into the game and had trouble finding anybody to group with. 

    Fanboy Y says Developer X is doing fine because it made all its money back with box sales.  He goes on to explain that Trojan Horses 2 doesn't need players to actually keep playing because all it ever needed was alot of box sales to be successful.

     Apparently your idea of no one in the game, and my idea of no one in the game differe by several hundred thousand people.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • Camaro68Camaro68 Daytona, FLPosts: 50Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Camaro68

    This is the story of Developer X and Gamer Joe:

     

    Developer X announces that it's upcoming game, Trojan Horses 2, will not have a sub fee.  Just buy the box and its yours to play for life with no sub fee whatsoever. 

     

    Launch day arrives and millions of players buy Trojan Horses 2 with visions of NO SUB FEE dancing in their head.  Developer X announces millions in sales.

     

    A few months later Gamer Joe is a little late to the party and decides to buy Trojan Horses 2 with a warm fuzzy feeling toward Developer X because there's NO SUB FEE.

     

    But then Gamer Joe logs into Trojan Horses 2 and finds there's hardly anybody in the game.  Wondering why he's playing a Massively Multiplayer game with hardly anybody in it, he turns to a internet message forum for answers.

    He explains how he logged into the game and had trouble finding anybody to group with. 

    Fanboy Y says Developer X is doing fine because it made all its money back with box sales.  He goes on to explain that Trojan Horses 2 doesn't need players to actually keep playing because all it ever needed was alot of box sales to be successful.

     Apparently your idea of no one in the game, and my idea of no one in the game differe by several hundred thousand people.

    OK just post a head count and I'll believe it when I see it.

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member

    Hmmm, I am pretty sure that the GW2 B2P model was intended to be a sell-lots-of-boxes-and-expac-and-cash-shop-items. It seems to fit that pretty well outside of the expacs since they don't have any yet. If no one ever paid for gems then GW2 failed. I am pretty sure though that that is not the case. ANet is doing with GW2 what they did with Gw1 as far as payment model goes, except that it is slightly more restrictive in that in GW1 you could at least buy chest keys with ingame money.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    nah GW2 is doing fine.

    There is another game which have 10 million sub and I don't have people to play with too.

    That is the thing with themepark game.  Once people go through the content, they never go back again.

    In GW2, there are 301 renown quest, 202 skill point, 266 vista point, and 1500(proclaimed) dynamic quest.  Each of them take a few minutes.  What are the chance anyone is doing the exact same thing  you are doing.  The map is just too big.

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dantae87
    i find it funny how GW2 was the most talked about game towards the end of 2012...now you hardly hear a wisper from it...its one of thouse games that slowly faded away...like GW1...only the devoted fans will stick to it...and it will end up just like GW1 did...devoted fan base with no income of new players...we can only hope that 2013 is a much better year for mmos...

    Go to the main page.

    Scroll down a bit.

    Click on "Most Popular Games".

    Click on "Week" or "1 Month".

    You'll see GW2 in lead.

    PoE seems to lead today's click count, though.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by Camaro68

    This is the story of Developer X and Gamer Joe:

     

    Developer X announces that it's upcoming game, Trojan Horses 2, will not have a sub fee.  Just buy the box and its yours to play for life with no sub fee whatsoever. 

     

    Launch day arrives and millions of players buy Trojan Horses 2 with visions of NO SUB FEE dancing in their head.  Developer X announces millions in sales.

     

    A few months later Gamer Joe is a little late to the party and decides to buy Trojan Horses 2 with a warm fuzzy feeling toward Developer X because there's NO SUB FEE.

     

    But then Gamer Joe logs into Trojan Horses 2 and finds there's hardly anybody in the game.  Wondering why he's playing a Massively Multiplayer game with hardly anybody in it, he turns to a internet message forum for answers.

    He explains how he logged into the game and had trouble finding anybody to group with. 

    Fanboy Y says Developer X is doing fine because it made all its money back with box sales.  He goes on to explain that Trojan Horses 2 doesn't need players to actually keep playing because all it ever needed was alot of box sales to be successful.

    Choose a high population server. Starting areas are always empty, in every mmo I have played post launch so I don't find that surprising and I don't see how it's the developers fault about not making people stick forever in starting zones.

    At first it seems as a desert but as you level up you get into areas where more people hangs around, tho it'll hardly be anything like the launchday populations. Nothing a dev can really influence unless they change something drastically.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Well this is obviously about GW2..

    It's a fail post though for the simple fact that ANet are still updating the game, supporting the game and want to make it bigger and better... all for free I might add.

    They want people to stick around.

     

    Then, there is this issue of it being treated differently because it's an MMO. Games like, say, dead space are totally left on their own after release with no free content updates whatsoever.. not even a proper patching schedule. The same amount of money crossed hands for the box sale.. yet everyone thinks they are entitled to more than in other BTP games because it's an MMO. With GW2 and TSW there has already been more free stuff given, more content playable and more bug fixes than 99% of ALL other BTP games. I certainly don't remember Christmas and halloween events in Skyrim.. or Dragon Age... you sound like you don't even understand what you are getting for free with BTP MMOs.

    ALL BTP games should be compared to OTHER BTP games. A BTP MMO is clearly more value than any other game on the market, regardless of payment model.

     

    So given your analogy,a regular McDonalds meal is clearly more value than a recommended meal at a 4-star restaurant given that when you pay equally, you get much more food at McDonalds. 

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    So given your analogy,a regular McDonalds meal is clearly more value than a recommended meal at a 4-star restaurant given that when you pay equally, you get much more food at McDonalds. 

    I don't know where you are getting at.

    The fact remain GW2 is actually better than almost all mmorpg on the market right now.  Not because it is cheaper.  Because it is better. 

    I don't care if you talk trash about GW2.  But you seemed to forget very few mmorg right now even have more active player than GW2. 

     

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Vannor

    Well this is obviously about GW2..

    It's a fail post though for the simple fact that ANet are still updating the game, supporting the game and want to make it bigger and better... all for free I might add.

    They want people to stick around.

     

    Then, there is this issue of it being treated differently because it's an MMO. Games like, say, dead space are totally left on their own after release with no free content updates whatsoever.. not even a proper patching schedule. The same amount of money crossed hands for the box sale.. yet everyone thinks they are entitled to more than in other BTP games because it's an MMO. With GW2 and TSW there has already been more free stuff given, more content playable and more bug fixes than 99% of ALL other BTP games. I certainly don't remember Christmas and halloween events in Skyrim.. or Dragon Age... you sound like you don't even understand what you are getting for free with BTP MMOs.

    ALL BTP games should be compared to OTHER BTP games. A BTP MMO is clearly more value than any other game on the market, regardless of payment model.

     

    So given your analogy,a regular McDonalds meal is clearly more value than a recommended meal at a 4-star restaurant given that when you pay equally, you get much more food at McDonalds. 

    Have you ever ate in a french restaurant? it's bloody expensive and the food is no better than the italian restaurant down the road with much cheaper prices

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon

    You forgot to include that B2P game box also has a cash shop which isn't all that different from one from a respectable F2P game, and in fact does not offer much difference between the other system and can milk even more money for a 'B2P' game then it might be able to produce if it was straight P2P. 

     

    I'm very iffy on the B2P model. With F2P games becoming a lot better as time goes on (Tera being a recent example given no changes or additions to its model as being a good one) the B2P seems like a possible way to drain the customer's wallet quickly up front and still provide exactly the same cash shop perks of another game that doesn't have that box cost.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    I think Gamerjoe should go on the forums and post about how he hates TrojanHorse 2 hoping maybe that someone might actually want to come and play Freemium Wars: Hotbar Hostage Republic

     Hahahaha! I spat out my coffee! Hilarious!

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    I think Gamerjoe should go on the forums and post about how he hates TrojanHorse 2 hoping maybe that someone might actually want to come and play Freemium Wars: Hotbar Hostage Republic

     Hahahaha! I spat out my coffee! Hilarious!

    only prob, 4 bars should be more than enough. yet, they are still crying.

     

    standart mmo gamer:

     

    i'd say the were spoiled by their parents or sth, there gotta be a reason for such a behaviour :)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by romanator0
    Originally posted by Dantae87
    i find it funny how GW2 was the most talked about game towards the end of 2012...now you hardly hear a wisper from it...its one of thouse games that slowly faded away...like GW1...only the devoted fans will stick to it...and it will end up just like GW1 did...devoted fan base with no income of new players...we can only hope that 2013 is a much better year for mmos...

    You sure? I still hear quite a bit about it. Whenever I hear people talk about MMOs it's usually about GW2. 

    Over the last week it had more than double the amount of unique hits on this site than any other game.  Yeah deadly quiet on the GW2 front.... hahaha.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    I think Gamerjoe should go on the forums and post about how he hates TrojanHorse 2 hoping maybe that someone might actually want to come and play Freemium Wars: Hotbar Hostage Republic

     Hahahaha! I spat out my coffee! Hilarious!

    only prob, 4 bars should be more than enough. yet, they are still crying.

     

    standart mmo gamer:

     

    i'd say the were spoiled by their parents or sth, there gotta be a reason for such a behaviour :)

     We all know its fixed now, but the fact they did it in the first place just goes to show what you are dealing with in that game. Its SoE V2.0

    Although having said that, SoE seems to be fixing its greed lately. Both EQ2 and Vanguard have had significant boosts to F2P standards.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by Purutzil

     

    I'm very iffy on the B2P model. With F2P games becoming a lot better as time goes on (Tera being a recent example given no changes or additions to its model as being a good one) the B2P seems like a possible way to drain the customer's wallet quickly up front and still provide exactly the same cash shop perks of another game that doesn't have that box cost.

    Isn't that true for Tera or most other "used to be F2P games too"?

    They pretty much start the game as selling box and montly sub when player base is high and change it to F2P later.

    Even the elder scroll online dev says they will "start the game as P2P", and change it to F2P sometime later.  The game isn't even out yet.

    Those are just marketing strategy.  And market spereration from its competitor.  The game studio really just choose whatever model they think will max their profit. 

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This discussion has been closed.