Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

[Column] General: When Kickstarter Works...

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,596MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Kickstarter is arguably one of the hottest topics coming out of 2012. There is, however, a curious thing that happens when a game funds: We are reminded of the past and commentary we may have made prior to a successful Kickstart. Check out today's Devil's Advocate and then leave your thoughts in the comments.

When a Kickstarter project fails, everyone seems to be okay with it, and nothing more is said about the occurrence other than, perhaps, “What a shame!” When a Kickstarter actually works though, the things you earnestly say in the past about a project can come back to haunt you. Being haunted by words I said last year is not going to help me sleep soundly, so I’ve taken today’s Devil’s Advocate and turned it into an exorcism ground.

Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: When Kickstarter Works...

image

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

image
«1

Comments

  • destro521destro521 Secret HarbourPosts: 48Member
    Nice Article on a substantial issue reguarding kickstarter projects :) They need to implement a stronger contingency against the creators of a kickstarter campaign to insure the investor is getting his money worth. but on the other hand the investor could always research the history of the company that starts the kickstarter campaign.
  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Got to admit, the back-and-forth exchanges on any of the GM threads here makes me skeptical that anything will ever come of that project. But they do make for an entertaining read!

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,035Member Uncommon
    Kickstarter has yet to 'work'. Once a quality mmo is actually released, then it works.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,610Member Uncommon

    There is a trend in these forums of falling in love with KS projects simply because it's a cool new idea that gives the little guy a shot at developingn an MMO. You see a lot of the same defensive posts promoting the projects based on little more than blind faith like you see in game forums defending a failing but beloved MMO.

    Do I need to point out that this suspension of disbelief is the best possible atmosphere for a scammer to operate within?

    Seems to me all you have to do is throw some trendy popular MMO lingo around like "open world", "sandbox", "payer-built cities", etc. and people will flock to give you $500 so you can have a river named after your pet gerbil.

    Then there are all the disguised ads for KS projects polluting the forums on a daily basis. They usually start something like this "Hey guys I have this idea for an MMO based on the bubonic plague... What do you think?" And then there will be a link to the KS page for the project. Then there will inevitably be some forum posters that will discuss the merits of the idea creating something tha t looks like a legitimate thread...job done: lock-proof advertising.

    Getting a bit tired of all this KS garbage... This site should at least create a KS panhandling forum segregated from other general forums.

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    Kickstarter has yet to 'work'. Once a quality mmo is actually released, then it works.

    Kickstarter has worked with many games by indie developers that are a blast to play. Why does it have to be a mmo to solidify Kickstarter's ability to move the market forward? That''s a very narrow-minded way of thinking.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Only mmo I tried to back was Dark Solstice and it failed sadly :(

    image
  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Nevulus
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    Kickstarter has yet to 'work'. Once a quality mmo is actually released, then it works.

    Kickstarter has worked with many games by indie developers that are a blast to play. Why does it have to be a mmo to solidify Kickstarter's ability to move the market forward? That''s a very narrow-minded way of thinking.

    MMOs are significantly different than regular 'games'.  There has yet to be an MMO kickstarter succes.  When a kickstarter releases and recieves noticeable post-launch development (regardless of size of player base) over a span of several years then we will have our success and proof that kickstarter is an option for this genre.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    I backed Elite:Dangerous for £20, it gives me a free copy of the game if completed. The studio behind it has been in game production for 30 years and has many completed games to its name, that's a big difference to a random bunch of people asking for money based on a cool idea, all kickstarters are not the same.
  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member

    There's already been a few casualties, frauds exposed (by reddit) and bleeding companies going for kickstarter gold...

    Just got to do some research on the people. Balance the risk/reward of an interesting campaign and imo be motivated to pledge for vision more than for personal gain. It's one reason I'm happier chipping in small amounts to ks games than traditional publishers pushing out games. :)

    Originally posted by Victor Barreiro Jr.

    People are not as enthused about this MMO as I’d expected

    At face value looking at the Tech Demo with no context it looks like any other 100's of fantasy themepark mmorpgs. Secondly coming out on the xmas period did not help. Third: No build-up release. Fourth: Their middleware contract talks were extended by unforeseen reasons but Five: Most of all: A mmorpg asking for a lot of cash is a big clash: The more you ask for and the more ambitious your vision, the more you ideally need to be able to show. Fortunately for GW they have Paizo community already built up which saved the day. And I think the faster development will prove vital: The dilemma of an indie mmorpg.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,185Member Uncommon

    Comparing Greedmonger and Pathfinder is like comparing night and day.  Although I was not thrilled with the pvp everywhere feature in Pathfinder, it has far better design points than Greedmonger.   Greedmonger was just a gambling game, it really had no worthy design points at all.

    Of all these indy games Pathfinder probably has a much better chance than many of them.  I will be shocked if Greedmonger ever sees the light of day.

    You cannot support them all, but some show potential.

  • hedbonkerhedbonker Moorpark, CAPosts: 2Member

    It does work...

     

    http://www.2playerproductions.com/projects/minecraft

     

    That was funded by Kickstarter.

  • newchemicalsnewchemicals San Gabriel, CAPosts: 43Member

    Nice article Victor.

    Given the MMO market as things currently stand I have doubts about PO. Too many other games have offered pie in the sky and didn't deliver.

    The game they are modeling after Eve Online failed in China (although its being rebooted there) and as the devs in that game have learned, a small change in the game could have a massive effect. Eve itself *may* have been a happy accident of right game, right time with the right balance.

    As usual, I don't even take a look at a game until its in open beta. Then see what the number crunching players say. I hope Pathfinder Online is successful, but only time and wallets will tell.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Multiple modest kickstarter rounds, proving that you can meet deadlines and deliver what was promised at each checkpoint goes a long way towards building trust.
  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    No kickstarter project has launched yet so you can't say it works. i can't believe gamers are so desperate that they would pay for the developement of a game. These kickstart games look great on paper but executing the idea is where they will come undone. I foresee a lot of drama this year with these scams*cough* i mean kickstarter projects
  • JamesPJamesP Portland, MEPosts: 435Member Uncommon
    Nice article even though it was pretty much one sided. We have been perfectly open and upfront concerning many of these false claims people keep making against us. But oh well we can't win every battle! Talk to you guys when we launch our Alpha.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive
    Greed Monger

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    i can't believe gamers are so desperate that they would pay for the developement of a game.

    If forums here are across the Internet are to be believed, the world is cram full of people who buy into hype only to be let down by the game that's actually delivered, even without kickstarter.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Nice article even though it was pretty much one sided. We have been perfectly open and upfront concerning many of these false claims people keep making against us. But oh well we can't win every battle! Talk to you guys when we launch our Alpha.

    well you know what to do, release the game and prove people wrong, until then kickstarter remains highly suspicious to those of us who have been around for awhile.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by maplestone
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    i can't believe gamers are so desperate that they would pay for the developement of a game.

    If forums here are across the Internet are to be believed, the world is cram full of people who buy into hype only to be let down by the game that's actually delivered, even without kickstarter.

    At least that hype has an end product regardless if it meets your mmorpg wet dreams or not, kickerstarter projects just look doomed from the beginning. They are ticking the boxes that everyone wants to see tick but executing it into a working product is a whole different animal.

  • RyahlRyahl Houston Metro, TXPosts: 47Member

    Nice article Victor, I enjoyed the read.

    Kickstarter is one of the more fascinating things I have seen in business in the past decade.  There's no reason getting into its positives because, well, they stand out on their own merit quite well.

    But Kickstarter does put the interested party into an odd situation.  It's micro venture capital without an equity component.  The Kickstarter funder needs to be able to do the same due diligence VC normally would do.  Even if the relevant information is available, I don't think the typical Kickstarter follower is familiar with this level of due diligence.

    It's not just the product pitch and marketing plan of the business plan that need evaluation.  There's an adage in my non-hobby, real-world experiences, "cash is king."  That's not a call for returns to a cash-only business model (far from it), but a recognition that cash flow management kills more projects than bad ideas do.

    The prospective Kickstarter funder really needs a feel for the operations, project management, cash flow management and business side of the business... but they make their decisions largely on the marketing/product side.

    Beyond the fraud issues, it's a model that's prone to a higher degree of strikeouts than straight VC... and it's not like VC is a high success rate environment.

    Ryahl - writer of eye-bleeders
    FFXIV Fansite | TSWGuides
    Follow me on Twitter

  • CursedseiCursedsei Clarkston, MIPosts: 1,012Member
    Originally posted by hedbonker

    It does work...

     

    http://www.2playerproductions.com/projects/minecraft

     

    That was funded by Kickstarter.

    And you have completely and utterly missed the entire point of this article somehow, amazing.

     

    Nowhere at all did the author claim Kickstarter doesn't work, all he said was that when a kickstarter project succeeds, you may end up seeing something you said of that project earlier coming to live, for good or bad. Try reading more than the topic name next time.

     

    Backed Pathfinders myself back in december, even upped my pledge to the 100 buck zone. Why? Well, the interest my friends have sparked in me for the PnP game for one, that hefty PDF dump for second, and three well... I'll use a quote.

    "Mandingo, how I grok your mouth music."

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Pyramid scheme....
  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by destro521
    Nice Article on a substantial issue reguarding kickstarter projects :) They need to implement a stronger contingency against the creators of a kickstarter campaign to insure the investor is getting his money worth. but on the other hand the investor could always research the history of the company that starts the kickstarter campaign.

     Your confused, there are no "investors" in kickstaters there are backers. Investors buy piece of a company expecting a monetary return on their inbvestment (ie dividends on stacks the ability to sell their stock shares at a later date etc.

      When you back a kickstarter you have bought a tier of rewards on a game that has not, and very well may not ever be released. One needs to be knowledgable about the risk one is taking. Even in investments theres nothing prevent  the ,arket from going bad and you lossing everything.

       In the end its best not to expect someone else to save you from your own bad choices.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by maplestone
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    i can't believe gamers are so desperate that they would pay for the developement of a game.

    If forums here are across the Internet are to be believed, the world is cram full of people who buy into hype only to be let down by the game that's actually delivered, even without kickstarter.

    At least that hype has an end product regardless if it meets your mmorpg wet dreams or not, kickerstarter projects just look doomed from the beginning. They are ticking the boxes that everyone wants to see tick but executing it into a working product is a whole different animal.

     

    The sky is falling!

    In the end i'd rather take a chance with a bit of money i can afford to lose then continue to buy up the low grade stuff the Suites at the big developers decide I and eveyone else should play because thier marketing research (which is never ever wrong) say so.

      Basically its about choice and in truth todays market its pretty much limited to ultra casual games (farmville anyone?) and wow clones. I'll stick with the kickstarters that seem reliable, worst thing can happen is i'm out the cost of the game and have nothing more then the current crap to play.  (humm funny sounds like the same results of buying a game from EA.) 

  • FistyMayhemFistyMayhem Rochester, NYPosts: 61Member Uncommon
    I love EVE and I love fantasy genera games.. I'm very excited about pathfinder.. I hope they succeed in a huge way!
     
  • CreepProphetCreepProphet LiedekerkePosts: 104Member

    Great write up Iamstillwater! I hope to see more.

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.