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3 million copies sold since august general consensus so far

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  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    As usual the 'shallow lacks complexity' crowd confuse mindless repetition (grind) with 'hardcore gameplay'. 

    I don't play much but hop in and play with my son or a couple of mates and we always agree we should do this more often.  The game has a lot of charm IMHO.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser

     i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.

    Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.

    You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

    Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers whow ant everythign handed to them on silver platter. What do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jibs, wives and kids whoc na hop in and out of the game on their own terms.

    Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

    Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

    Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.

    1;) Fast fod industry gameplay with little braina ctivity needed

    2;) Focusing on players whow ant everything served to them on silver platter

    3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers

    4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2.

    I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? 

    Meaningless ultra long grinds+forced grouping isnt depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

    The only game i would charcterize with "deep" is EvE atm.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Quoting the "opponent" out of context without any kind of argument - one of the many way to make one feel he "won" on forums - but it's only a feeling, not reality.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

    I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

    Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser

    I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

    Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

    I didnt find any staggering complexity in those games.

    MMOers have a tendency to proclaim "taking long time" as "complex" or "hard"

    Going to max level in those games wasnt hard or coplex, it was just freaking long and ultra boring from todays perspective and had an added annoyance of needing 5-ish other people to do anything. Thats why those arent produced any more because they wouldnt survive a year in the market.

  • BigAndShinyBigAndShiny LondonPosts: 176Member
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunte

     

    Arenanet has between 250 and 300 employees now.

     

    They are over 300 emplayees now ;)

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/bltc/What-to-buy-with-800-gems/first#post1218058

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    GW2 does have gems, but again, we don't know how that plays out in comparison, when you look at revenue.

    EA lays off tons of people in different studios everywhere,   NCSoft does just as much, which Arenanet is a part of.  NCSoft will choose what studio needs to layoff who as they have done in previous years. 

    Except ANet just hired more people last week.

    FUN FACT:   Bioware was hiring for Austin (ie. SW:TOR development) until ***DAYS*** before the layoffs.  The studio saying "hey we need a few more artists", and some HR person approving that, is VERY VERY different from the CFO of NCsoft or whatever, having looked at the spreadsheets in a few months, saying that he wants the studio cut by a third.

  • BigAndShinyBigAndShiny LondonPosts: 176Member
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser

    I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

    Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

    I didnt find any staggering complexity in those games.

    MMOers have a tendency to proclaim "taking long time" as "complex" or "hard"

    Going to max level in those games wasnt hard or coplex, it was just freaking long and ultra boring from todays perspective and had an added annoyance of needing 5-ish other people to do anything. Thats why those arent produced any more because they wouldnt survive a year in the market.

    GW2 isn't deep because the loot, customization, rewards are SO simple.  I'm not on edge during a story bossfight because I KNOW the boss isn't going to drop any cool gear, because hey, I don't have 50,000 tokens or a trillion karma or whatever, because gear has to be bought from the vendor. 

     

    I know that when I level up I won't get that awesome ability, because HEY I'm level 35 and, as long as I want to play this general build, I'm using the same skills for the rest of the time i ever play this character.

     

    I know that when I finish that challenging dungeon with my friends, I won't be able to go out into the world and FEEL more powerful, killing mobs with ease, because endgame gear doesn't give you much advantage in the open world and zones scale to your level anyway, so you never feel truly powerful.  

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    The game has some of the best PvP I have experienced in years far as mmos go.

    It is also one of the worst games I have ever seen from a PvE perspective. All relates to what you yearn for I suppose.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Torgrim
     

    I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.

    The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.

    I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallowimage

     i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.

    Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.

    You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

    Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers who want everythign handed to them on silver platter. Who and which demographics do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jobs, wives and kids who can hop in and out of the game on their own terms.

    Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

    Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

    Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.

    1;) Fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed.  (Check)

    2;) Focusing on players who want everything served to them on silver platter. (Check)

    3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers. (Check)

    4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2. (Check)

    I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? if this doesn't scream shallow than what does?

     

    No I still haven't  answerd my own question and I STILL WANT A ANSWER FROM HIM not you and YOUR opinions.

    So I really don't care what you have to say and how you feel and how you think the word shallow apply to GW2.

    So with your logic I should wait, what to 2050 so I can play a game that YOU aprove?

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • ScaryMonkScaryMonk LondonPosts: 97Member

    I am fairly indifferent to GW2, I don't play it, but I found it mildly distracting for a month or so, so I don;t feel my money was wasted.  

    However, I don't understand how someone can argue that the gameplay and mechanics are anything other than shallow. 

    Anyway, rather than provide a lengthy explantion of what shallow is, I thought I would just share the following extract from the OED: -

    shal·low  (shimagelimageimage)

    adj. shal·low·ershal·low·est

    1. Measuring little from bottom to top or surface; lacking physical depth.

    2. Lacking depth of intellect, emotion, or knowledge: "This is a shallow parody of America" (Lloyd Rose).

    3. Guild Wars 2.

     
  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Torgrim
     

    I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.

    The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.

    I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallowimage

     i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.

    Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.

    You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

    Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers who want everythign handed to them on silver platter. Who and which demographics do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jobs, wives and kids who can hop in and out of the game on their own terms.

    Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

    Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

    Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.

    1;) Fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed.  (Check)

    2;) Focusing on players who want everything served to them on silver platter. (Check)

    3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers. (Check)

    4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2. (Check)

    I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? if this doesn't scream shallow than what does?

     

    No I still haven't  answerd my own question and I STILL WANT A ANSWER FROM HIM not you and YOUR opinions.

    So I really don't care what you have to say and how you feel and how you think the word shallow apply to GW2.

    So with your logic I should wait, what to 2050 so I can play a game that YOU aprove?

    Considering what he said in his post reflects your own thoughts about state of modern games and direction they are going i don't see what else you want him to say. He didn't say something that we have never heard or read on these forums before. None the less it is hard to ignore irony in your posts.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

    I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

    Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

     

    A game can be extremly indeapth and complex  yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.

    So I fail to see your point.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon
    I can see your point of view BigandShiny however the gear progression (see, i resisted saying gear grind) you describe should not be confused with depth. Nore should 'gated content', or a whole bunch of  other stuff.
  • ScaryMonkScaryMonk LondonPosts: 97Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Torgrim
     

    I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.

    The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.

    I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallowimage

     i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.

    Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.

    You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

    Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers who want everythign handed to them on silver platter. Who and which demographics do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jobs, wives and kids who can hop in and out of the game on their own terms.

    Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

    Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

    Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.

    1;) Fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed.  (Check)

    2;) Focusing on players who want everything served to them on silver platter. (Check)

    3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers. (Check)

    4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2. (Check)

    I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? if this doesn't scream shallow than what does?

     

    No I still haven't  answerd my own question and I STILL WANT A ANSWER FROM HIM not you and YOUR opinions.

    So I really don't care what you have to say and how you feel and how you think the word shallow apply to GW2.

    So with your logic I should wait, what to 2050 so I can play a game that YOU aprove?

    May I ask why you care so much?  Do you have shares in ANet?  Calm down, some people find the game shallow, you don't; is any further crap required on the subject? 

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by ScaryMonk

    I am fairly indifferent to GW2, I don't play it, but I found it mildly distracting for a month or so, so I don;t feel my money was wasted.  

    However, I don't understand how someone can argue that the gameplay and mechanics are anything other than shallow. 

    Anyway, rather than provide a lengthy explantion of what shallow is, I thought I would just share the following extract from the OED: -

    shal·low  (shimagelimageimage)

    adj. shal·low·ershal·low·est

    1. Measuring little from bottom to top or surface; lacking physical depth.

    2. Lacking depth of intellect, emotion, or knowledge: "This is a shallow parody of America" (Lloyd Rose).

    3. Guild Wars 2.

     

     

    Ok then I stand corected.

    There is no game to this date that is not shallow with that defenition.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

    I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

    Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

     

    A game can be extremly indeapth and complex  yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.

    So I fail to see your point.

    Are you seriously implying GW2 is " in depth". The game is about as simple as you can get. Not knocking it but come on now...

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by ScaryMonk
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Torgrim
     

    I know you feel quite proud of yourself and though hahaha got him when you posted this with my quotes.

    The word shallow means absolute nothing if you can't explain what is is that makes it shallow.

    I really don't know why you thought you were smart by making those quotes about me liking GW2, as also quoted I have a sub running in Vanguard for my oldschool fix and I play GW2 because I find that form of gameplay refreshing and I find the dungeons challengeing and I like the WvW PvP so my quotes somehow in your troll mind should answer my question why he feels GW2 is shallowimage

     i simply quoted you to answer your own predicament regarding how GW2 is not shallow. But your quots do make for very interesting read . But if we go by dictionary meaning shallow means somethign which lacks depth.

    Granted it will vary from person to person but keeping your other posts in mind and your rant about modern games being easy and lackign depth i was hoping you would understand his post better and what he meant when he said 'GW2 is shallow'.

    You mentioned that games after 2000 to 2012 and you can clearly see the games have gone from difficult and challenging to fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed to be able to play.

    Your words not mine. Then you talk about lazy gamers who want everythign handed to them on silver platter. Who and which demographics do you think GW2 devs were aiming for? yes people with jobs, wives and kids who can hop in and out of the game on their own terms.

    Why do game developers listen to these punks who want everything served on a golden platter with little effort needed and in the same time these people will leave after the first month anyway to scourge the forums for the next big hit.

    Since when did the lazy carrot on a stick kids and I got a job,a wife and 2 children gamers have more power than the average gamer?

    Again your words not mine. So yes actually you have already answered OP's question in past i just believe you have a very bi polar thing going on here. But to make it easier i will list the reasons based on your own posts.

    1;) Fast food industry gameplay with little brain activity needed.  (Check)

    2;) Focusing on players who want everything served to them on silver platter. (Check)

    3;) Catering to lazy carrot on stick kids and i got a job, wife and 2 children gamers. (Check)

    4.) Games like Vanguard the only game which gives old school feeling these days somethign missing from games like GW2. (Check)

    I can go on but isn't that what OP is trying to say but in different words? if this doesn't scream shallow than what does?

     

    No I still haven't  answerd my own question and I STILL WANT A ANSWER FROM HIM not you and YOUR opinions.

    So I really don't care what you have to say and how you feel and how you think the word shallow apply to GW2.

    So with your logic I should wait, what to 2050 so I can play a game that YOU aprove?

    May I ask why you care so much?  Do you have shares in ANet?  Calm down, some people find the game shallow, you don't; is any further crap required on the subject? 

     

    Writing the word shallow and dont explain why is the same thing to write the word sucks both means nothing if you can't explain why.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

    I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

    Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

     

    A game can be extremly indeapth and complex  yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.

    So I fail to see your point.

    If you really understand that you wouldn't have made a topic just to insult casual gamers now would you? call them punks and blame devs for catering more to people with jobs and family? i am just going by what you have said.

    I think it is you who need to understand this point better because i have already mentioned i don't believe in hardcore or casual mindset at all. 

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

    I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

    Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

     

    A game can be extremly indeapth and complex  yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.

    So I fail to see your point.

    If you really understand that you wouldn't have made a topic just to insult casual gamers now would you? call them punks and blame devs for catering more to people with jobs and family? i am just going by what you have said.

    I think it is you who need to understand this point better because i have already mentioned i don't believe in hardcore or casual mindset at all. 

     

    Why do you qoute me from another post to fuel your argument when I didn't want to talk with you to begin with?

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Torgrim
     

    Why do you qoute me from another post to fuel your argument when I didn't want to talk with you to begin with?

    Touche! by the way you did quote me that is why i replied. ;)

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    Writing the word shallow and dont explain why is the same thing to write the word sucks both means nothing if you can't explain why.

    i agree - "one word" adjectives without detailing why - are meaningless

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by mikahr
    Meaningless ultra long grinds arent depth. And thats all that "old school" games had. Yes i played them, i just dont wear rose colored glasses.

    I am just playing the devils advocate here i honestly belong to neither camp. because i am casual as well as hardcore gamer based on how much free time i can spare for gaming. However i do hate double standards.

    Saying that modern MMOS cater to casuals and have very less depth, even go on to call them 'punks' and then if someone dares question GW2's depth the same guy jumps on him  forgetting that in past that is all he has been doing ..complaining about modern MMOS being 'shallow'.

     

    A game can be extremly indeapth and complex  yet it can also be very casual friendly, EvE can both be played as hardcore complex game as the sametime it can be played very casual It's all about how you play the game and how you see it and how you understand it.

    So I fail to see your point.

    Are you seriously implying GW2 is " in depth". The game is about as simple as you can get. Not knocking it but come on now...

    As simple as you can get? OK, you're a mesmer with greatsword and scepter/focus for the weapon sets. You're in combat. When would you use mesmer focus 4?

    Oderint, dum metuant.
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  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    Writing the word shallow and dont explain why is the same thing to write the word sucks both means nothing if you can't explain why.

    i agree - "one word" adjectives without detailing why - are meaningless

    Because PvE wise you can accomplish anything with a pug group? With little struggle.

    The game gives new meaning to tank and spank (Yes...I know how that will bring down the mighty throws of the lemmings that somehow feel not having a trinity nullifies the concept) the likes I have never seen. Albeit exploration mode does involve a working brain to a degree. Story mode simply involves nothing more than a full group bashing into the foray besides a few selective encounters.

    From a "PvE" perspective the game is seriously shallow. I would, however, differ far as PvP goes...

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by BigAndShiny

    GW2 isn't deep because the loot, customization, rewards are SO simple.  I'm not on edge during a story bossfight because I KNOW the boss isn't going to drop any cool gear, because hey, I don't have 50,000 tokens or a trillion karma or whatever, because gear has to be bought from the vendor. 

    I know that when I level up I won't get that awesome ability, because HEY I'm level 35 and, as long as I want to play this general build, I'm using the same skills for the rest of the time i ever play this character.

    I know that when I finish that challenging dungeon with my friends, I won't be able to go out into the world and FEEL more powerful, killing mobs with ease, because endgame gear doesn't give you much advantage in the open world and zones scale to your level anyway, so you never feel truly powerful.  

    this is a personal truth for you

    i dont relate -- chance at gear drops can make fights more exciting but its not the "be all" for me

     

    GW2 mobs do die much easier if you scale down from upper levels, there is a sense of power when you scale down

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Volkon

    As simple as you can get? OK, you're a mesmer with greatsword and scepter/focus for the weapon sets. You're in combat. When would you use mesmer focus 4?

    Do you have any idea how laughable this is? This is your counter argument? Really?

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

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