So I was wondering the other day more and more new MMO's don't add swimming into there games, since WoW I have seen very few with it anymore. So I was wondering ( Why ? ) is it the game engine ? the cost and time to put it in game ? or do Devs just think it's pointless nowdays ?
Play Guild Wars 2.
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Mob density is what made GW2 water areas terrible to me. It was rare you actually got to enjoy being underwater because you were almost always engauged and the respawn was so short it was hard to clear some space.
GW2's underwater areas were pretty awesome, but I agree with the above poster. The mob density (because launch was pretty recent when I played) was baffling. They would die, and respawn a few minutes later. A lot less exploration, a lot more combat. I'd prefer it the other way around.
All that being said, give me a damn ship. I wish more games had naval combat. Controlling a ship is fun, and it doesn't have to be realistic, as Assassin's Creed III showed.
Played: SWG, SWG:NGE, EQ2, Vanguard, LotRO, WoW, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Mortal Online, Rift, Guild Wars, Fallen Earth, EVE Online, Ryzom, Dungeons and Dragons Online, World of Tanks, Aion, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2
swimming isnt dead. swtor sucks and has a crappy engine and everything but story was cut back to the bare minimum at release ... the slew of other crappy f2p mmos don't count.
swimming combat doesn't even have to exist really, but imo mmos should have swimming. If I want to cross a river I should be able to swim across it. I actually like gw2's approach best sofar if I had a choice. A more limited skillset in wow would make sense. I mean ... fireballs ... underwater???
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by endgame1 While I hate underwater combat as much as the next guy, I do like swimming as far as exploration goes, (finding underwater caves, dungeons, etc.).
+1. Actually, it's pretty sad to read the "mostly combat game" and "underwater combat" like comments... but I guess nowadays the rpg part is fading and all's left is mmo with a heavy focus on combat.
As azmundai wrote, "swimming combat doesn't even have to exist really, but imo mmos should have swimming." I love AoC's swimming, with quests and exploration involved.
I like games that use a Z-Axis. I actually liked play Champions Online, I just hated the balance of the game, no Archtype could come close to a free-forms performance. I remember my friend and I doing 2v10 games due to PvP being a complete mess, and never lost a single game. As far PvE was concerned, Free Forms only found challenge from Therakiel, which is an end-game boss found in expansion content.
Anyways the point is, don't blame Z-Axis, blame poor game design.
As has been mentioned, GW2 really did a good underwater aspect of the game. I just remember the old games, how terrible it was. In dark age of camelot, it was essentially an afterthought. You could only attack people above the water if you were above the water, and ou could only attack people below if you were below. So...people would just swim up and down constantly to disrupt attacks. Oddly enough, Everquest did a 10 times better job, and 3-4 years before daoc had underwater combat.
I really don't know why it has taken so long for someone to get swimming combat to be even halfway decent...but as with all things in the mmo world, expect it to be cloned.
Why do people always do this? One or two new games come along and they didn't have something that an older game did. They then go off on a hyerbolic catastrophization spiel about how that particular aspect is happening less and less and is fading out. From there the argument goes that games are dumbing down and features are being ignored.
For petes sake people. No. Those games just didn't have it. Not all games do. It's not a trend, it's an incident.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Guild Wars 2 has amazing underwater areas, can spend literally hours in some of the underwater spaces/zones, its pretty new also.
Basically some people do not like having to survive in a full 3d environment, so to alot of the players its too challenging. Course there are some bugs with the underwater areas, like invulnerable mobs.
GW2 swimming combat isn't new. It's actually the same combat as in WoW and Rift. It's just that the game has limited action bar which switches when underwater, which gives the illusion of it being different, but in reality it isn't. It's the same. 3D combat.
Easily one of the most memorable dungeons i've been in, though EQ had a lot of ocean secrets/islands to go explore. Underwater content is fantastic, and it's a real shame it has gone largely ignored since older titles, both in single player and online RPG's.
Easily one of the most memorable dungeons i've been in, though EQ had a lot of ocean secrets/islands to go explore. Underwater content is fantastic, and it's a real shame it has gone largely ignored since older titles, both in single player and online RPG's.
I was actually going to mention this, some of the most memorable times I have had in EQ were in underwater zones, but mostly i'll admit because it's so much harder to deal with than on land.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
swimming isnt dead. swtor sucks and has a crappy engine and everything but story was cut back to the bare minimum at release ... the slew of other crappy f2p mmos don't count.
swimming combat doesn't even have to exist really, but imo mmos should have swimming. If I want to cross a river I should be able to swim across it. I actually like gw2's approach best sofar if I had a choice. A more limited skillset in wow would make sense. I mean ... fireballs ... underwater???
So? If we can have blow-torch underwater in the real world, what is the problem with magical fireball under digital fantasy water?
Cryengine 3 is the best I've personally seen at rendering underwater environments. I hope someone uses it to make a MMO soon. Star Citizen is using it but I seriously doubt there will be swimming in a Space Sim game. Sure the overall graphical fidelity would probably have to be ratcheted back somewhat to make it a viable MMO engine but it would still blow anything we've seen so far out of the water (bad pun intended).
Don't care so much about underwater combat. What I want to see more of is ship-to-ship fighting. Bring back the naval warfare/pirate raids of old ;P
Though I can totally see the next WoW commercial having Michael Phelps spouting the 'What's your game?' line with the subtitle: Play WoW, we have swimming.
Comments
Play Guild Wars 2.Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
I did and got bored of it but thats beside the point, I never said it's not out there just that it's becoming less of a staple for MMO's these days.
GW2's underwater areas were pretty awesome, but I agree with the above poster. The mob density (because launch was pretty recent when I played) was baffling. They would die, and respawn a few minutes later. A lot less exploration, a lot more combat. I'd prefer it the other way around.
All that being said, give me a damn ship. I wish more games had naval combat. Controlling a ship is fun, and it doesn't have to be realistic, as Assassin's Creed III showed.
Played: SWG, SWG:NGE, EQ2, Vanguard, LotRO, WoW, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Mortal Online, Rift, Guild Wars, Fallen Earth, EVE Online, Ryzom, Dungeons and Dragons Online, World of Tanks, Aion, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2
ROFL the comments from people amaze me everyday on this forum.
/jumps off bridge...
swimming isnt dead. swtor sucks and has a crappy engine and everything but story was cut back to the bare minimum at release ... the slew of other crappy f2p mmos don't count.
swimming combat doesn't even have to exist really, but imo mmos should have swimming. If I want to cross a river I should be able to swim across it. I actually like gw2's approach best sofar if I had a choice. A more limited skillset in wow would make sense. I mean ... fireballs ... underwater???
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
+1. Actually, it's pretty sad to read the "mostly combat game" and "underwater combat" like comments... but I guess nowadays the rpg part is fading and all's left is mmo with a heavy focus on combat.
As azmundai wrote, "swimming combat doesn't even have to exist really, but imo mmos should have swimming." I love AoC's swimming, with quests and exploration involved.
I like games that use a Z-Axis. I actually liked play Champions Online, I just hated the balance of the game, no Archtype could come close to a free-forms performance. I remember my friend and I doing 2v10 games due to PvP being a complete mess, and never lost a single game. As far PvE was concerned, Free Forms only found challenge from Therakiel, which is an end-game boss found in expansion content.
Anyways the point is, don't blame Z-Axis, blame poor game design.
As has been mentioned, GW2 really did a good underwater aspect of the game. I just remember the old games, how terrible it was. In dark age of camelot, it was essentially an afterthought. You could only attack people above the water if you were above the water, and ou could only attack people below if you were below. So...people would just swim up and down constantly to disrupt attacks. Oddly enough, Everquest did a 10 times better job, and 3-4 years before daoc had underwater combat.
I really don't know why it has taken so long for someone to get swimming combat to be even halfway decent...but as with all things in the mmo world, expect it to be cloned.
Why do people always do this? One or two new games come along and they didn't have something that an older game did. They then go off on a hyerbolic catastrophization spiel about how that particular aspect is happening less and less and is fading out. From there the argument goes that games are dumbing down and features are being ignored.
For petes sake people. No. Those games just didn't have it. Not all games do. It's not a trend, it's an incident.
VengeSunsoar, I really want to agree with your sentiment. But about that first sentence ....
/thread
Nobody said it was new, sherlock holmes.
Easily one of the most memorable dungeons i've been in, though EQ had a lot of ocean secrets/islands to go explore. Underwater content is fantastic, and it's a real shame it has gone largely ignored since older titles, both in single player and online RPG's.
I was actually going to mention this, some of the most memorable times I have had in EQ were in underwater zones, but mostly i'll admit because it's so much harder to deal with than on land.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
So? If we can have blow-torch underwater in the real world, what is the problem with magical fireball under digital fantasy water?
Cryengine 3 is the best I've personally seen at rendering underwater environments. I hope someone uses it to make a MMO soon. Star Citizen is using it but I seriously doubt there will be swimming in a Space Sim game. Sure the overall graphical fidelity would probably have to be ratcheted back somewhat to make it a viable MMO engine but it would still blow anything we've seen so far out of the water (bad pun intended).
Bren
while(horse==dead)
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EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Don't care so much about underwater combat. What I want to see more of is ship-to-ship fighting. Bring back the naval warfare/pirate raids of old ;P
Though I can totally see the next WoW commercial having Michael Phelps spouting the 'What's your game?' line with the subtitle: Play WoW, we have swimming.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon