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[Editorial] Star Wars: The Old Republic: Give BioWare a Break

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Comments

  • mnemic666mnemic666 asdf, CAPosts: 157Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk
    Originally posted by Kaynos1972
    What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

    Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

     

    So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

  • orsonstfuorsonstfu Belaton, LAPosts: 203Member

    So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

    Know what else is a fact. Social Norms.

  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by BadOrb

    Try the game yourself if you haven't make up your own mind about it and don't act like sheep for gods sake. It's $4.99 for 4 action bars , 6 character slots and you can play the whole game all the way through , that's a bargain.

    End of long post.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb. 

     

    I would say that STO is better value than SWTOR as F2P games, and even paying $15 across multiple accounts in SWG with its insane boatload of fetaures is better value than SWTOR as F2P.

    STO is more free than SWTOR, and gives you plenty of non-restricted access to the game without paying a penny, that sucks you deeper into the game, that when you get so far you feel that spending money is more worth it.

    Makeb has been banging about since June 2012, and SGR since Sep 2011. Since about June 2012, STO had Season 6 put in, then Season 7 announced and is now in. This month they have announced Season 8 coming soon, probably in by the time Makeb is, and Season 9 also coming later in the year, yet SWTOR is still going on about content done and announced between Sep 2011 and June 2012.

    SWG had its faults, but they kept constant updates coming, and you knew more was to come, and it had 3 full blown expansions, not a mini expansion. LA only gave up on SWG in 2006, over 2 years after launch, EA/BW have given up on SWTOR already. SOE still did plenty for SWG after 2005 too.

    Also with EA saying they need $7.5 million per month (500K subs) to break even it seems they are only adding in content already written, and with F2P it is not generating enough income for them to break even, and looks like it may shut down by the end of the year. It may not shut down and live for years, but that is not the impression they are giving, and they say they "intend on pursuing more SGR options in the future" and not "will pursue more SGR options in the future" making it sound they know that it may probably not happen. I assume it all depends on the success of the game and if it grows, but if it is not going good, then there is a strong chance they will either not have enough money from subs and F2P to make it happen, or the game may get shut down, plus there is the licence which makes things more rocky.

    The game is still good to play, and even if it only lasts the rest of this year, that is plenty time to get the most out of it.

    I will only give Bioware a break when EA/BW start progressing the game in leaps and bounds like other MMOs, which is an indication of the game doing good (although that still did not stop SWG and CoH from shutting down) and what STO and SWG got, as I do think that SWTOR is a better game than STO, but BW/EA are just letting it rot.

    I never tried STO , I have only heard that the space battles are great and that there are ships to buy for real money on their version of the Cartel Market and yes I know some elements of SWTOR are getting very close to the P2W model. I hope it doesn't cross the line.

    You are correct about the fact they had written and maybe even finished ( or near enough ) a lot of content around June 2012 and that they kept it back for when they rolled out the freemium model. So even the new ilum and Makeb patches/expansion are old and what i am waiting for is what they will do after Makeb. Have they stopped making new content or are they still making new things we haven't even heard about. So from the end of spring to the ned of the year will answer the question , i hope.

    The subs being 500 k for breaking even went out the window a few months back. They are now getting money from the Cartel Market and subs ( plus preferred ). So I'm not sure we are everlikely to actually know if they are making money or even broke even , which is a shame.

    As for the SGR in Makeb well it is only a case of getting a female actor and male actor to say the same thing. Like in the class missions , female or male characters that we play have the same dialogue ( mostly ) appart from flirt options. So in actual fact it was probably easier to program and record these new parts. Honestly though people it won't be forced upon you and is only going to happen if you hit the flirt option in convos. It hasn't taken up much time and no recent time , or resouces at all.

    finally I was suprised you said you thought SWTOR is in fact better than STO though. Let's hope they can stop the rot as it where and get it back on track. One final thing i don't find good is that there are no class stories going to be in Makeb , let's hope that doesn't mean what I think it does , I do want the class stories to continue after makeb.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
    "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
    The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  • mnemic666mnemic666 asdf, CAPosts: 157Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by orsonstfu

    So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

    Know what else is a fact. Social Norms.

     

    And social norms are bullshit, as they change over time and evolve. If there were games promoting segregation, they would have been embraced as a social norm in the 50's, but we'd look at it today as a quaint reminder of how bigoted and unenlightened older generations were.

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Kansas City, MOPosts: 460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mnemic666
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk
    Originally posted by Kaynos1972
    What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

    Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

     

    So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

    Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

  • mnemic666mnemic666 asdf, CAPosts: 157Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk
    Originally posted by mnemic666

    So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

    Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

     

    Then don't put hetero romances in the game either.

     

    And why is sexual orientation any different territory than slavery and torture, two other elements that exist within SWTOR already? I fail to see how homosexual relations are in any way worse than a game which allows you to keep and abuse a slave, and torture others.

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Kansas City, MOPosts: 460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mnemic666
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk
    Originally posted by mnemic666

    So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

    Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

     

    Then don't put hetero romances in the game either.

     

    And why is sexual orientation any different territory than slavery and torture, two other elements that exist within SWTOR already? I fail to see how homosexual relations are in any way worse than a game which allows you to keep and abuse a slave, and torture others.

    When developers start adding in sexual orientation that's when I stop playing. A game like SWTOR has so many problems and not a single developer should be working on that crap.

  • orsonstfuorsonstfu Belaton, LAPosts: 203Member

    And social norms are bullshit, as they change over time and evolve. If there were games promoting segregation, they would have been embraced as a social norm in the 50's, but we'd look at it today as a quaint reminder of how bigoted and unenlightened older generations were.

    Doesn't change anything about them being fact. Fluid sure but aren't all things. Social Norms are a fact, no a particularly pretty fact but a fact nonetheless. Also SWTOR wasn't released in the 50's and sure people from the future may look back and think that the current social norms are or were draconian - but that doesn't change anything about them being facts. Which they are, just not facts you agree with so you use a straw man argument to try and hold your ground which makes you come off as arrogant and blind.

     

    On a fun note: About that that bar joke.

    An evolutionist, A caveman, and a creationist walk into a bar. Bar tender asks what'll it be: Caveman says 2 beers and a bottle of whine.

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 686Member Uncommon
    All of the design decisions I have seen bioware make (in any game), since EA bought them out, give me zero reason to give them a break.  EA took a highly sucessful studio and ran it into the ground.  Just as they do with every studio they buy out.  I will never give EA/Bioware a break, given that they don't deserve one.
  • mnemic666mnemic666 asdf, CAPosts: 157Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    When developers start adding in sexual orientation that's when I stop playing. A game like SWTOR has so many problems and not a single developer should be working on that crap.

     

    The second sentance in your post is the most valid argument against this at the moment. It's nice to see them doing a bit of work on non-core gameplay features, but you're absolutely correct. The game has some significant issues and they should be laser focused on fixing and expanding the core gameplay elements before moving into expanding the non-core gameplay elements.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk
    Originally posted by mnemic666
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk
    Originally posted by Kaynos1972
    What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

    Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

     

    So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

    Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

    I am glad you can speak on behalf of all of us on subject what should be and shouldn't be in game. Luckily, majority of us have evolved beyond subjects like 'sexual orientations'. People play sci fi games like SWTOR and still think like a cave man. Interesting.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Kansas City, MOPosts: 460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk
    Originally posted by mnemic666
    Originally posted by SlothnChunk
    Originally posted by Kaynos1972
    What does sexual orientation has to do with a game anyway ?  Can you keep that kind of stuff outside of gaming.

    Agreed. Shouldn't be in games in the first place.

     

    So then they should remove all romances from the game. If sexual orientation has nothing to do for the game, don't make it a gameplay option at all.

    Sexual orientation enters different territory which shouldn't be in games.

    I am glad you can speak on behalf of all of us on subject what should be and shouldn't be in game. Luckily, majority of us have evolved beyond subjects like 'sexual orientations'. People play sci fi games like SWTOR and still think like a cave man. Interesting.

    I was only speaking for myself. And I vote with my credit card.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by orsonstfu

    Know what else is a fact. Social Norms.

    What is this the 1950's? It used to be the social norm not to have sex before being married....for a woman to stay at home...slavery...in the 1920s if a woman showed her ankles or shoulders she was a whore because it wasnt socially acceptable...it used to be that if you listed to Rock'n'Roll you were thought of as a criminal/wild/deviant because it wasnt acceptable music.

    It used to be the social norm to force a daughter to marry for money or power. It used to be the social norm to do everything the church tells you...so as not to be BURNED AT THE STAKE.

    All I can say is, thank God for the 1960s that made, at least most of the world realize that the only thing NOT acceptable is "social norms" created to make us live the way someone ELSE thinks is appropriate.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadOrb

    The subs being 500 k for breaking even went out the window a few months back. They are now getting money from the Cartel Market and subs ( plus preferred ). So I'm not sure we are everlikely to actually know if they are making money or even broke even , which is a shame.

    finally I was suprised you said you thought SWTOR is in fact better than STO though. Let's hope they can stop the rot as it where and get it back on track. One final thing i don't find good is that there are no class stories going to be in Makeb , let's hope that doesn't mean what I think it does , I do want the class stories to continue after makeb.

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    After the F2P announcement they were unsure whether to make Makeb free to subscribers or not (before F2P it seems like they planned on it being free), but as the "expansion" was announced about 1 month after F2P, that is a sign that F2P is not bringing in enough revenue to match their 500k subs / $7.5 million per month. It seems like they waited to see the success of F2P before making their mind of of charging for Makeb or not. It could be a conicidence, but too many factors ring warning bells that the future is not very bright.

    STO is still good for the space, but if SWTOR managed to expand space to be similar then I would probably not look at STO again. There are far many more bugs in STO than SWTOR, but the only reason why STO shines more than SWTOR to me, is that it is getting way more attention from the devs, and not just gets more content, but has a few more features too. Although they did release it with not much, but with that, they have moulded it to player feedback, whereas SWTOR is pretty much a more completed game at launch with not much room for advancement / extra features

  • orsonstfuorsonstfu Belaton, LAPosts: 203Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by orsonstfu

    Know what else is a fact. Social Norms.

    What is this the 1950's? It used to be the social norm not to have sex before being married....for a woman to stay at home...slavery...in the 1920s if a woman showed her ankles or shoulders she was a whore because it wasnt socially acceptable...it used to be that if you listed to Rock'n'Roll you were thought of as a criminal/wild/deviant because it wasnt acceptable music.

    It used to be the social norm to force a daughter to marry for money or power. It used to be the social norm to do everything the church tells you...so as not to be BURNED AT THE STAKE.

    All I can say is, thank God for the 1960s that made, at least most of the world realize that the only thing NOT acceptable is "social norms" created to make us live the way someone ELSE thinks is appropriate.

    Your argument is classic moving the goal post defense. It doesn't work and makes you look foolish because you took something out of context. Case in point it is currently not the 1950's unless you subscribe to the multiverse theory and then its always 1950. But at any rate SWTOR wasn't released in the 1950's and the bearing of those social norms have nothing to do with their game.

    Read my second post for more on social norms.

    On a side note, I am all for personal freedom. It doesn't matter at all to me as to SWTOR's SGR or DGR at all. It's simply a matter of priority.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    I am glad you can speak on behalf of all of us on subject what should be and shouldn't be in game. Luckily, majority of us have evolved beyond subjects like 'sexual orientations'. People play sci fi games like SWTOR and still think like a cave man. Interesting.

    I was only speaking for myself. And I vote with my credit card.

    That's right. It's all that matters in the end. EA can censor your ideas all they want, but in the end, they can't force you to keep sending them money.

    I wouldn't give that "majority" comment any credit either, there's no proof. And with all the deleted posts speaking out about this, nobody will ever know (which is the goal). The only thing EA has is the illusion that everyone is posting positive comments. Not true.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • ComputerJuiceComputerJuice Portland, ORPosts: 17Member

    Personally Im happy that its implemented.  I dont cary how or why.   Im straight. I play a female character and I always do.  Why? It's simple:  If I am going to spend months and months staring at the backside of somthing, I want it to be appealing.  

    It adds to immersion to have relationships in game. It is natural  when you spend hours and hours with a sidekick that you grow attached to them.  So, Ill be honest, it was a little awkward having those implied intimate moments with a guy. 

    However, what I personally would have preferred is to choose which of my sidekicks I had the relationship with.   You know it would have been the ships droid, which is why we need a gender chip for the customization slot.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bigsmiff
    Originally posted by Razeekster

    My problem isn't with Bioware, it's with many of it's players who are saying being gay friendly makes the game non-family oriented. Since when did the gender that someone loves make a game "unfriendly" for families. I guess there are still a lot of bigots out there that don't know how to teach their children that all love, no matter what kind it is, is still love.

     

     

     

    It's simple really...Not everyone believes that "all love" is OK. I would never teach my child that a same sex relationship is OK since it isn't natural. I am sure I will be scolded for posting this, but I know that this was directed toward my comments. And if free speech is welcome here, I am sure I am doing the right thing by defending my beliefs just like everyone on here that is pro same sex.

    I would feel awful for your poor child if he/she grew up to be gay. It's not something that can be helped so to teach your child hate instead of love just makes your child that much less the wiser to the world around him/her.

     

    But that is up to you. If you wish to teach the ways of hate instead of peace, tolerance, and love than no one can stop you.

     

    Smile

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,720Administrator Uncommon
    Well, we tried to give this thread a chance. Locking this up now.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

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