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Violence and Video games, here we go again

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,676Member Uncommon
    nm

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VonatarVonatar PraguePosts: 674Member Uncommon

    Much as I hate John Smedley, what he said at the time of Shawn Woolley's suicide in 2008, allegedly from playing Everquest is true today in terms of the violence and games debate:

     

    "It's entertainment. Is a book dangerous? Is a TV show dangerous? I think the answer is no. People need to take responsibility and say, 'Hey, you know, this is too much. Enough's enough.' It's a game."

    (Source: CBS News http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_162-525965.html)

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by MagikrorriM

    They say that guns don't kill people, people kill people, I call bullshit on that guns were designed to serve one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to kill, someone or something. Assult rifles and large capacity anmunitions do not belong in the hands of the public at large, bambi doesn't pack heat.

    When it comes to overthrowing a tyranical government what's an assult rifle going to do against a drone with a nuke? Why not be more productive and address the issues that cause crime in the first place, say like poverty? the monetary system? Living in a state of scarcity? Why do we tolerate it? Only living organizism on the face of the planet that chooses to live in scarcity, think about it.

    I'm going to reply to this. Don't take it as coming down on you, I really want you to do some research on your own. Because when you repeat these misinformed, scripted lines that we have been hearing for weeks, you sound no different then these old guys blaming video games for mass murder. You're replacing one inanimate object for another and not holding the actual criminal accountable for their actions. Sir, I am not a criminal because I own video games and firearms. Neither of them has killed anyone on their own, all by themselves.

    The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting. It's about securing a basic human right to defend ourselves. This is not my opinion, this has been ruled many times by the US Supreme Court. It was written many times by the authors of the US Constitution. It isn't to be interpreted or infringed.

    What an individual chooses to do with this specific right, is their choice, not yours or mine. Firearms kill people, well, ya! But firearms are also used to deter crimes, hunting, sporting, people collect them, etc etc.

    Wasn't it the fact that there is "a rifle behind every blade of grass" is what prevented Japan from invading in WW2?

    Your term "assault rifle" is all wrong. Although there is a legal abilty to own automatic weapons (assault weapons), the debate is over semi-automatic weapons. Please research the difference between the two. Or look up if the military uses AR-15s or not and why.

    Let me address converting semi-auto to automatic. You can find older lower receivers that you are physically able to replace or modify a part to fire as an automatic. This, however, is a Federal crime. Newer lower receivers are manufactured in such a way that won't allow those parts.

    Bump firing. Look it up. I mean really research it. You will find out that bump firing trashes your $1000-$2000 firearm. Yes, there are people that still do it anyways. The most common technique is to use a shoelace. Should we regulate or ban shoelaces? This is a real question.

    As far as "high-capacity magazines" go,  30rd magazines are the standard. A "high-capacity magazine" would be a 75-100rd drum. You know, like they show in movies or a book you have read. I, on the other hand, have used them. But here's a little secret, everyone with firearm experience knows that these fail and often. Not even the military uses these drums for the M-16A2/M4.

    You can push for smaller capacity magazines all you like. I'll just carry more smaller ones. Takes no time to dump a mag and reload, especially for those of us that are experienced shooters and had training in the military and/or law enforcement.

    Another thing to consider. This talk about "assault rifle AR-15 war machines" (that are not even used by the military). Did you know that most units have a Designated Marksman (DM) in their unit? The most common weapon used is a Remmington 700 bolt-action rifle? Did you know this? Did you also know that this same rifle is sold in any Wal-Mart across America?

    This kind of talk is no different than the "blame violent video games" talk. Should we limit how many violent video games we are allowed to own? Should we limit the amount of time per day a person can play a violent video game? How about ban all violent video games all together and turn them over to the government. I mean, they are responsible to mass murder and it's for the children, right?

    In closing, I will address your "overthrow the government" statement. As I have stated already, the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is pretty clear. It was to protect ourselves from from the government. What individuals choose to do with that right is their choice, not ours. By the looks of sales, they are not arming to the teeth to just hand them over later. But why not address poverty instead? Because my rights, our rights, are more important to fight for. We shouldn't be so eager to throw away our rights that so many have died for for centuries. Poverty isn't even a problem here. They have free homes, utilities, cellphones, cars, bus passes, school, food. All free. The homeless? They made a choice. They don't want to live in a shelter because they would rather use drugs, so be it, but that's the rules. Live by the rules, get shelter. Pretty simple. If poverty was real. If poverty is to blame, then why are NFL players shooting people? Are they not rich? What's their excuse? maybe it's the people? Can we finally hold people accountable for their actions?

    Hope this helps you get started, I'll help you if you have questions.

     

     

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    video games are extremely violent and just because they don't make you pick up a gun and shoot people doesn't mean jimmy down the road won't be easily manipulated. The question we should ask ourselves is why we as humans love violence as a source of entertainment. after all our inner lust for violence created the gun in the first place
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon
    What pisses me off is, they want to complain about video games and other media de-sensitizing people to violence, yet they'll show off their wars on TV like it's a pay per view wrestling event.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    I dont think its videogames, movies or music. I think its ignorance and dishonesty, mix some legal drugs in there and you have the perfect design for disaster.
  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member
    Originally posted by DarthMajin
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    I think TV has more influence than Videogames. There is just way too much of it these days, and backstapping, and even the good guys of the show are at each others throats.

    In all the years I have played games and watched TV, I have never had the desire to act out a videogame, whereas TV I do all the time, because it is more real with real people, and not pixels.

    In The Mentalist, he kills a guy he thinks is his arch enemy, which is not, and then gets away with it. He has to get away with it, otherwise the show would end!

    If any of the Law shows is any indication of real law, too many guilty people get away with murder, and innocent people go to jail, all because of the game lawyers play in court.

    Videogames have helped me spot details, and be on the look out for trouble, basically be more observant, and I did prevent a real crime of fraud from happening, and I put that down from playing videogames.

    Violence on TV, violence in videogames, it doesn't matter. The main fault for ANY child getting hold of adult content is their parents/guardians. Parents either don't understand or just don't care about ratings. They think their 10 year old should be able to play Call of Duty. If the government wants to crack down on the so called "videogame violence" getting to kids, they need to start punishing parents for letting their children have it. Instead of taking that damn $500mil or so that Obama spent on research into videogame violence, use that money to educate parents. I have played violent videogames since I was like 8 years old, and I am not violent nor do I want to, or have thoughts of, hurting others. Parents need to stop blaming media and start looking at themselves.

    Care to define "adult content" ?

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Regardless of your point of view on violence in video games or gun control or whatever, the important thing is to avoid any knee-jerk over-reaction and willingly give up our rights and freedoms.
  • fat_taddlerfat_taddler Wanaque, NJPosts: 286Member

    There was a song called 'Pumped Up Kicks' which was played in heavy rotation on the Top 40 stations around the U.S. last year and was even featured in some commercials.   The lyrics are about a kid shooting up his classmates but because the song had a happy, upbeat sound many people never picked up on it.   

    Look at these lyrics

    Robert's got a quick hand.He'll look around the room,he wont tell you his plan.

    He's got a rolled cigarettehanging out his mouth.He's a cowboy kid.

    Yeah! He found a six-shooter gunin his dad's closet, with the box of fun things.but he's coming for you. Yeah, He's coming for you!


    All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,You better run, better run, outrun my gun.All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.


    You better run, better run, outrun my gun.You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

     

    It goes on from there, you get the point.   It's funny how you don't see anyone calling out this song which was played constantly for months on the radio but so many groups will point at obscure heavy metal songs and video games as the cause. 



    <span line-s"="" id="line_59">

  • Wildkitty54Wildkitty54 Nolanville, TXPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by SoulSurfer

    Sorry, I could not resist.

     

     

    This picture speaks only truth.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by fat_taddler

    There was a song called 'Pumped Up Kicks' which was played in heavy rotation on the Top 40 stations around the U.S. last year and was even featured in some commercials.   The lyrics are about a kid shooting up his classmates but because the song had a happy, upbeat sound many people never picked up on it.   

    Look at these lyrics

    Robert's got a quick hand.He'll look around the room,he wont tell you his plan.

    He's got a rolled cigarettehanging out his mouth.He's a cowboy kid.

    Yeah! He found a six-shooter gunin his dad's closet, with the box of fun things.but he's coming for you. Yeah, He's coming for you!


    All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,You better run, better run, outrun my gun.All the other kids with the pumped up kicks,You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.


    You better run, better run, outrun my gun.You better run, better run, faster than my bullet.

     

    It goes on from there, you get the point.   It's funny how you don't see anyone calling out this song which was played constantly for months on the radio but so many groups will point at obscure heavy metal songs and video games as the cause. 



    <span line-s"="" id="line_59">

    Isn't that the band that the dudes wear their sisters' skinny jeans?

    Yeah, you made a point. Look at Jeremy by Pearl Jam. Or remember when Manson was blamed for Columbine?

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    What pisses me off is, they want to complain about video games and other media de-sensitizing people to violence, yet they'll show off their wars on TV like it's a pay per view wrestling event.

    Ding ding ding.

    This explains it all. And just think, these people are in charge of us.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrHFB2KP8fc

     

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    I actually saw someone on a forum claiming the moron that shot those children learned to shoot from video games. This was, of course, before all the information was released... details like his mom taking him to the shooting range and all that... my thoughts on that were this: If computer games taught him how to shoot he'd still be at home trying to figure out where to plug the mouse into the assault rifle. 

     

    BTW, after work today I'm going to play Minecraft with my son. image  I have to admit... we're going to be a little more... guiding... on the games he plays when he does. No matter how you slice it, that event cut me right to the core. My kids are 12 and 10... only a few years older than those poor children. Something like that... I'd be ruined. Absolutely ruined.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    well games are a lot more graphically realistic these days so the violence cuts a lot deeper with a persons psyche. I have no doubt that video games could brainwash someone into shooting or hurting someone. The shit people say to each other when playing games like call of duty would get you kill if you said it on the street.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    well games are a lot more graphically realistic these days so the violence cuts a lot deeper with a persons psyche. I have no doubt that video games could brainwash someone into shooting or hurting someone. The shit people say to each other when playing games like call of duty would get you kill if you said it on the street.

    While I doubt people are really this stupid and confused, I would be open to any research that is done on what you said. It's a possiblity you are spot on.

    I think at that point though, parents should be held responsible.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • JorendoJorendo EdePosts: 263Member
    Originally posted by Scot

    Violence and Video games, here we go again

    Video games do not put guns into their player’s hands. They do not make parents want to leave their guns accessible to teenagers.

    This argument has been going on for decades. I loved GTA, remember the storm over that series? But it never made me want to steal cars, deal drugs or visit a prostitute.

    Play WWII Online Free Now!

    Politicians always need to find a solution, even when you don't need one. They need to be seen to do the right thing, which too often does not help. This is a problem today more than ever, with the news media clammering for answers and 24hr news raising those calls to fervour pitch.

    I don't know enough about the gun issue to make a comment on that, but I do know video games have been a scapegoat for years. Politicians and even more so the media have to blame someone.

    As a child of the 80's and belonging to the "TV" generation i can assure you that games aren't blamed more often then tv back then. Really back then even shows as the Power Rangers where blamed for shoot outs at schools and how they learned children to fight each other.

     

    My generation grew up with how bad TV was. My parents grew up with how bad Rock music and long hair was, how that was the cause of all violence and drug abuse, in my grand parents time it where the books that where the cause of all violence (yes even the book been the great violence maker once). These days it are games.  It is easy to shout any form of media/entertainment is the blame. Why? Cause it makes you less bad to say a game causes all the shoot outs then admiting your gun law is a huge epic fail (yeah what ever, im from Europe and frankly all EU countries together have less shoot outs in 10 years then 1 year in the states so go think about that, we play the same games, watch the same movies, listen to the same music and read the same books). Also lets trow in a fact shall we? 80% of the males between 16 - 30 years old plays video games. Most shoot outs are done by guys between the age of 16 - 30. So the changes that someone who caused a shoot out is a gamer is very high. But lets look at America, as that is the country with the most shoot outs and the loudest politicians and media (fox im looking at you) shouting its the blame of the games. As i understand about 90% of the population is religous in America. So the changes that one of the shooters is a gamer is just as high as the shooter being religous. So perhaps it was the bible that drove him to shoot people? Do i blame religion now? No, i'm just stating numbers and changes.

     

    The shoot outs only happen cause we humans don't seem to accept that we are a violent race. Having easy acces to weapons is asking for trouble with out kind. We got many phsycos in this world. No mather where you are from. We are a race that always has the need for war and to kill. We been doing nothing else since we excist. It's why we have no natural enemy. Why we are ontop of the food chain. We can do great things for each other and other races on this world. But we as well can be very destructive. Is that the blame of games? No, cause video games did not excists 2000 years ago and then we also killed each other because we felt like doing so.

     

    In ten years it will be icecream that is the blame of all violence. Mark my words!

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    The shoot outs only happen cause we humans don't seem to accept that we are a violent race. Having easy acces to weapons is asking for trouble with out kind. We got many phsycos in this world. No mather where you are from. We are a race that always has the need for war and to kill. We been doing nothing else since we excist. It's why we have no natural enemy. Why we are ontop of the food chain. We can do great things for each other and other races on this world. But we as well can be very destructive. Is that the blame of games? No, cause video games did not excists 2000 years ago and then we also killed each other because we felt like doing so.

     

    In ten years it will be icecream that is the blame of all violence. Mark my words!

    You mean species. You don't want to bring up race and crime here.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Americas odd, the general violence seems lower there than over here.

    I've had American colleagues over and they were genuinely shocked at the drunken brawls and what have you when I took them out. But to me is the norm. If anything was worse in the 80s when I was a kid, my city nowadays feels a lot safer than other UK cities.

    Where as when I've been over there I'm shocked at how quiet and well mannered your sort of general lower middle class / working working class neighborhoods are. (i mean your inner city ghetto areas are way scarrier than ours, but your average working guy areas seem milder.

    I wonder if there's a cultural thing of having this mannered, calm, well behaving attitude and bottling things up until they explode.

    That's because the police over here beat the shit out of you, tazer you, and sometimes murder you for any little offense. They are mostly steroid freaks who just wnat an excuse ot beat on a civilian. You can find tons of videos of our police shooting people for absolutely no justifiable reason, but then it's found justified because "they were in fear for their safety".

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member


    -


    I think kids today are just fucked up on psychotropic drugs. I mean this is the kind of shit I listened too as a teen, I snorted my Ritalin on the weekends instead of taking it as prescribed, and I never thought of shooting up a mall or a classroom. Let's put the blame where it's due. If you feed your kid a pill that's side effects include homicidal and suicidal thoughts then you blame video games... Well maybe you deserve to get shot in your bed.

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaF9nbLo8as

     

     

    Penn and Teller Bullshit - Videogames.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • RajCajRajCaj Lafayette, LAPosts: 694Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot

    Violence and Video games, here we go again

    Video games do not put guns into their player’s hands. They do not make parents want to leave their guns accessible to teenagers.

    This argument has been going on for decades. I loved GTA, remember the storm over that series? But it never made me want to steal cars, deal drugs or visit a prostitute.

    Politicians always need to find a solution, even when you don't need one. They need to be seen to do the right thing, which too often does not help. This is a problem today more than ever, with the news media clammering for answers and 24hr news raising those calls to fervour pitch.

    I don't know enough about the gun issue to make a comment on that, but I do know video games have been a scapegoat for years. Politicians and even more so the media have to blame someone.

    I agree with what you said...but with one caviat.  Personal responsiblity & a grounded sense of reality is REQUIRED if things like Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and TV shows like Dexter, Breaking Bad, etc. have a place in our society.

     

    Those qualities aren't something people are born with....its something that is learned as a person matures.....and more times than not, it comes from responsible parents, that also have a grounded sense of reality.  Unfortunately, the trend seems to look like more & more parents are doing less of the parenting, and allowing the TV & Video games do more of the baby sitting.

     

    I don't think removing viloent games & other media are the answer....as responsible people are capable of interacting with these things without having negative effects on their life.  Instead, people who decide to bring other people into this world need to do a better job at being parents.

     

    As for the gun issue....it's just as much of a scapegoat as the Movies / TV & Video Games.  All this attention on gun & ammo bans are primarily focused on semi-auto rifles, when they account for like 1% of gun deaths.  There are more gun related deaths from gang related violence with handguns than with psychopathts with semi-auto rifles...like WAY more.  Yet you don't hear much about erradicating gang / thug culture.

     

    Point being, society needs to start heading in the direction of personal responsibility, else laws will take care of it for us....both the good & the bad.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by TruthXHurts
    - I think kids today are just fucked up on psychotropic drugs. I mean this is the kind of shit I listened too as a teen, I snorted my Ritalin on the weekends instead of taking it as prescribed, and I never thought of shooting up a mall or a classroom. Let's put the blame where it's due. If you feed your kid a pill that's side effects include homicidal and suicidal thoughts then you blame video games... Well maybe you deserve to get shot in your bed.

    Yep. But big pharma will do what they can to deflect anything that comes up. They contribute to politicians, so fat chance they ever raise questions either.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • RajCajRajCaj Lafayette, LAPosts: 694Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by superniceguy

    I think TV has more influence than Videogames. There is just way too much of it these days, and backstapping, and even the good guys of the show are at each others throats.

    i think both mediums de-sensitize people

    but i agree tv / film is more impressionable than video games

     

    example

    -  teen killer from columbine massacre was supposedly inspired by Neo of the Matrix

     

    what have video games inspired?  cosplayers?

    the only videogame violence ive read about is people taking game disputes to real life

    Agreed, but there is a trend for new games being more realistic & mainstreamed.

     

    When we start getting in the realm of Virtual Reality, i think you will start seeing games having a similar effect as TV / Movies.

     

    Again, if a person plays any of these games responsibly; regulated by responsible parents...all is good.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    I agree with what you said...but with one caviat.  Personal responsiblity & a grounded sense of reality is REQUIRED if things like Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, and TV shows like Dexter, Breaking Bad, etc. have a place in our society.

     

    Those qualities aren't something people are born with....its something that is learned as a person matures.....and more times than not, it comes from responsible parents, that also have a grounded sense of reality.  Unfortunately, the trend seems to look like more & more parents are doing less of the parenting, and allowing the TV & Video games do more of the baby sitting.

     

    I don't think removing viloent games & other media are the answer....as responsible people are capable of interacting with these things without having negative effects on their life.  Instead, people who decide to bring other people into this world need to do a better job at being parents.

     

    As for the gun issue....it's just as much of a scapegoat as the Movies / TV & Video Games.  All this attention on gun & ammo bans are primarily focused on semi-auto rifles, when they account for like 1% of gun deaths.  There are more gun related deaths from gang related violence with handguns than with psychopathts with semi-auto rifles...like WAY more.  Yet you don't hear much about erradicating gang / thug culture.

     

    Point being, society needs to start heading in the direction of personal responsibility, else laws will take care of it for us....both the good & the bad.

    Well said.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

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