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[Editorial] Star Wars: The Old Republic: Give BioWare a Break

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Comments

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bigsmiff

    I think that people put the pressure on Bioware to add it when they obviously didn't want to put it in their game. Star Wars has always been a somewhat family friendly IP, and now people want to change it into something that it has never been. Bioware should have just told people no in the beginning and left it at that. Now they are under pressure to add stuff that has no business being in a video game.

    *Just my opinion*

    I am not sure they were presseured into it by players I think that instead of EA/Bioware paying devs to create more new content, as the number of paying players dropped below their accepatble threshold, they are just working with the content they already had, that got cut out of the game.

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    Meh, their problem is they don't listen to the fans, and more importantly, their customers, primary source of income, gamers. They took a dive into the deep end...maybe they should invest in a life jacket because they're sinking fast.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • PeregrineFalcon451PeregrineFalcon451 Seattle, WAPosts: 5Member

    I do disagree with the way a good portion of people post on the internet. Going berzerk over little things, comparing people to a certain well known dictator simply because they changed the balance of one power of their favorite class, wishing that devs would "die in a fire", etc.

    However, I do not feel that either EA or BioWare deserve "a break" where SWTOR is concerned. Prior to launch many, many people warned BioWare about the exact problems that the game ended up having when launched. The BioWare devs arrogantly ignored feedback that they asked for while having parties and getting SWTOR tatoos and bragging that SWTOR was going to be the MMO messiah, while EA suits proclaimed that they were "gunning for WoW."

    And this expansion shows that they still lack the ability to foresee the logical consequences of their actions. They deliberately put SGR's into one little section of the game and then they're shocked when people refer to Makeb as a closet. Really? They couldn't see that coming?

    A major part of games theory isn't just the math that makes up power balance, it's also about human behavior and predicting what people will do. The BioWare team just keeps on proving that they lack that skill.

    No. EA/BioWare deserves no breaks. People should keep on hammering them, in a calm and adult manner of course, until they finally learn to listen to their customers.

    Paragon City Refugee - "We're heroes. It's what we do."

  • TrunksZTrunksZ PanamaPosts: 263Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by TrunksZ
    Originally posted by Aeonblades

    Give them a break? Why? I have been giving them a break for the last 4 games they have released. This is not inflammatory, just saying that you can only give someone so many chances and if they mess them all up, why bother?

    They aren't listening to the players, which is a major problem for most MMOs these days.

    Who cares about gay npc relationships? Make some real content, optimize your engine, and make PvP playable/fun.

    Maybe they're not listening to you, but players has been asking for SGR since launch and they are also addressing the looks of the spymaster set as many people were complaining, they're also trying to encourage world pvp with 1.7 that people were asking, but as you can see people are even starting to complain about that too, to me it looks like they're listening to their players its just hard to please everybody, ironically most people bashing the game don't even play it.

    Where? I don't know anyone that asked for that personally. I do play this game, well, I was able to play it until the last patch and the broke something again. World PvP? Meh. Would rather have functional and fun battlegrounds. I'm not saying just listen to me, but do you know anyone who is happy with the HE? Maybe a clue in is the fact the population is still declining (at least on my server) Something is not right, and SGR is not a fix, it's a "Hey this is an inflammatory and controversial feature, by gods grace we might get some publicity again!"

    People has been asking for it since launch, here's some threads about it.

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=476215

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=160936&highlight=relationship

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=520411&highlight=sgr

    To be honest with you, I don't care about SGR either, but the media is making a big deal out of it because of the current controversial situation in America.

    Also my server (Prophecy of the Five) is growing, specially in the leveling planets, it used to be near to impossible to do some of the Heroic +4 quest now I can easily find a group for them, at least in the Republic side and I've heard that the Empire is 3 times bigger.

    And no I don't have a source for "ironically most people bashing the game don't even play it.", but my personal experience (These forums mainly), most people jump to the whole bandwagon of the "It went free to play it must be a failure".

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by bigsmiff I think that people put the pressure on Bioware to add it when they obviously didn't want to put it in their game. Star Wars has always been a somewhat family friendly IP, and now people want to change it into something that it has never been. Bioware should have just told people no in the beginning and left it at that. Now they are under pressure to add stuff that has no business being in a video game. *Just my opinion*
    I am not sure they were presseured into it by players I think that instead of EA/Bioware paying devs to create more new content, as the number of paying players dropped below their accepatble threshold, they are just working with the content they already had, that got cut out of the game.

    there was a huge outcry before launch when it was discovered that there would not be any same sex dialog options in the game.

    so they add them and now there is an outcry that it isn't enough or that it is segregated.

    even though (correct me if i am wrong) all the new content from the expansion will be on that same planet?


    damned if you do damned if you don't, that's a phrase this game has lived by ever since launch.

  • Marcus-Marcus- Posts: 970Member Uncommon

    When purchasing an MMO, one of the last things i consider (if at all) is romantic relationships with NPCs.

     

    With that said, do you really expect them to get a break with such a hot-button issue? Regardless of how it was implemented, there was going to be some pretty strong emotion from all sides. Honestly, i'm going to say its going to get a bit worse really.

    I could care less about it myself, i don't play the game any longer. The way they (EA) goes about their business makes me feel icky, for lack of a better word, and that goes back to how Warhammer was handled, and beyond, really.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    Any rational gamer would have "same sex relatiosnhips" and relatiosnhips in general low on the priority list of what to have in any MMO. 

     

     

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by TrunksZ
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by TrunksZ
    Originally posted by Aeonblades

    Give them a break? Why? I have been giving them a break for the last 4 games they have released. This is not inflammatory, just saying that you can only give someone so many chances and if they mess them all up, why bother?

    They aren't listening to the players, which is a major problem for most MMOs these days.

    Who cares about gay npc relationships? Make some real content, optimize your engine, and make PvP playable/fun.

    Maybe they're not listening to you, but players has been asking for SGR since launch and they are also addressing the looks of the spymaster set as many people were complaining, they're also trying to encourage world pvp with 1.7 that people were asking, but as you can see people are even starting to complain about that too, to me it looks like they're listening to their players its just hard to please everybody, ironically most people bashing the game don't even play it.

    Where? I don't know anyone that asked for that personally. I do play this game, well, I was able to play it until the last patch and the broke something again. World PvP? Meh. Would rather have functional and fun battlegrounds. I'm not saying just listen to me, but do you know anyone who is happy with the HE? Maybe a clue in is the fact the population is still declining (at least on my server) Something is not right, and SGR is not a fix, it's a "Hey this is an inflammatory and controversial feature, by gods grace we might get some publicity again!"

    People has been asking for it since launch, here's some threads about it.

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=476215

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=160936&highlight=relationship

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=520411&highlight=sgr

    To be honest with you, I don't care about SGR either, but the media is making a big deal out of it because of the current controversial situation in America.

    Also my server (Prophecy of the Five) is growing, specially in the leveling planets, it used to be near to impossible to do some of the Heroic +4 quest now I can easily find a group for them, at least in the Republic side and I've heard that the Empire is 3 times bigger.

    And no I don't have a source for "ironically most people bashing the game don't even play it.", but my personal experience (These forums mainly), most people jump to the whole bandwagon of the "It went free to play it must be a failure".

    I'm not going to take the bait, sorry, it's already easy enough to get into trouble here :p It's not even about SGR really, it's about features that actually matter to 90% of the player base.

    I will say this, 3 threads do not constitute a huge following, I have seen probably 100x more posts about PvP, End Game, Glitches/Bugs and actual problems with the game, not just a publicity stunt where they bend to a small minority of players. I have no problem with SGR, heck, encourage it even if it's where society is headed, just if you are going to do this, why not fix the real problems? I want to love this game, I have been faithful that it will end up fixed, but even fans start losing steam at some point.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • TrunksZTrunksZ PanamaPosts: 263Member
    Originally posted by baphamet

    it just gives another thing for people to cry about. no matter what they do people will complain unless it involves them giving the people a completely free game and even then i bet people would complain.

    i understand people have legitimate gripes with this game but people complain and over-exaggerate so much about this game, it doesn't even matter anymore.

    its the boy who cried wolf and i don't listen anymore.

    I totally agree with you and this is not happening just to SWTOR, but to the MMO industry as a whole, I honestly believe that developers should do what they think best instead of listening to the players.

    Also I don't know how it affects your gameplay that the guy next to you have a SGR with an NPC.

  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    It look like EA is trying to do one of two things here and im not really sure which one... either  trying to release something so conroversial that players cant help but to log in and check it out or trying to release something so controversial that they get shut down.
  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by bigsmiff I think that people put the pressure on Bioware to add it when they obviously didn't want to put it in their game. Star Wars has always been a somewhat family friendly IP, and now people want to change it into something that it has never been. Bioware should have just told people no in the beginning and left it at that. Now they are under pressure to add stuff that has no business being in a video game. *Just my opinion*
    I am not sure they were presseured into it by players I think that instead of EA/Bioware paying devs to create more new content, as the number of paying players dropped below their accepatble threshold, they are just working with the content they already had, that got cut out of the game.

     

    there was a huge outcry before launch when it was discovered that there would not be any same sex dialog options in the game.

    so they add them and now there is an outcry that it isn't enough or that it is segregated.

    even though (correct me if i am wrong) all the new content from the expansion will be on that same planet?


    damned if you do damned if you don't, that's a phrase this game has lived by ever since launch.

    Makeb and its content has been spinning around since June, and according to EA all that stuff was already done ages before that, and stated to be in game before the end of 2012. Since June 2012, Perfect World has announced Season 7 for STO, and it is now in, and Season 8 is coming shortly with Season 9 later in the year, whereas SWTOR is still going on about Makeb, and SGR was mentioned Sep 2011 then stated it would not happen and now is again. It seems that EA are jjust stretching the limited content they already have, as if it had been put in by the end of 2012, they would have nothing else to keep players interested.

  • TrunksZTrunksZ PanamaPosts: 263Member

    I'm not going to take the bait, sorry, it's already easy enough to get into trouble here :p It's not even about SGR really, it's about features that actually matter to 90% of the player base.

    I will say this, 3 threads do not constitute a huge following, I have seen probably 100x more posts about PvP, End Game, Glitches/Bugs and actual problems with the game, not just a publicity stunt where they bend to a small minority of players. I have no problem with SGR, heck, encourage it even if it's where society is headed, just if you are going to do this, why not fix the real problems? I want to love this game, I have been faithful that it will end up fixed, but even fans start losing steam at some point.

    I can tell that you didn't even look at the links I provided, first of all the first thread I provided is 534 pages long, also they keep locking every other thread made about the subject and I am not trying to bait you into anything.

    They added a new battleground not long ago, but I bet you are not happy about that either, they're releasing an event in the next patch, but I bet you're not happy with that either, they're releasing an expansion within the next few months, but you won't get happy about that either. My point is some people will  never get satisfied, maybe your standards are just too high.

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    Bio just can't win at this point, I mean its just one thing after another. Most games do a better job at hiding the greed. You should have presented yourself more humbly and made the greed invisible. You really messed up. To everyone who worked on Swtor you should have no shame, the problem is the guy in charge. Could be your boss or your bosses boss or ..... All the way to the top, but that's where the problems enter anyhow, some egotistical suit wants to step in and prove themself. Well congratulations twas a fine mess of Star Wars you made.
  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    I don't think it's a issue. Just point me to the "rats" I need to kill thank you. :)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by TrunksZ

    I'm not going to take the bait, sorry, it's already easy enough to get into trouble here :p It's not even about SGR really, it's about features that actually matter to 90% of the player base.

    I will say this, 3 threads do not constitute a huge following, I have seen probably 100x more posts about PvP, End Game, Glitches/Bugs and actual problems with the game, not just a publicity stunt where they bend to a small minority of players. I have no problem with SGR, heck, encourage it even if it's where society is headed, just if you are going to do this, why not fix the real problems? I want to love this game, I have been faithful that it will end up fixed, but even fans start losing steam at some point.

    I can tell that you didn't even look at the links I provided, first of all the first thread I provided is 534 pages long, also they keep locking every other thread made about the subject and I am not trying to bait you into anything, they added a new battleground not long ago, but I bet you are not happy about that either, they're releasing an event in the next patch, but I bet you're not happy with that either, they're releasing an expansion within the next few months, but you won't get happy about that either. My point is some people will  never get satisfied, maybe your standards are just too high.

    Great 534 pages. For a game that sold millions of copies. Half of the posts are just filler, you do realize this? It's still not the point, you keep going on and on about SGR like it matters, put it in, leave it out, most people don't care, just fix the game is my point.

    And I guess wanting to have a game be fun and playable is too high of an expectation for a AAA MMO these days. Silly me for wanting a game to play. One new battleground and one new raid means nothing if half the game is still broken and buggy.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • zomard100zomard100 karlovacPosts: 228Member
    Wait..... wait a sec... I search and search  in my Star Wars encyclopedia.... No, there is nothing about   SGR. I think i never saw planet Earth in Star Wars universe.  Do alliens really  have SGR?
  • floreairfootfloreairfoot Nashville, TNPosts: 59Member

    I guess being gay is not "family friendly"?

     

    According to a few of you.

     
     
  • TrunksZTrunksZ PanamaPosts: 263Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades

    Great 534 pages. For a game that sold millions of copies. Half of the posts are just filler, you do realize this? It's still not the point, you keep going on and on about SGR like it matters, put it in, leave it out, most people don't care, just fix the game is my point.

    And I guess wanting to have a game be fun and playable is too high of an expectation for a AAA MMO these days. Silly me for wanting a game to play. One new battleground and one new raid means nothing if half the game is still broken and buggy.

    Game is fun already, but it feels like some players are just looking for things to complain, help me understand your point of view what do you mean the game is "broken and buggy"?

    Edit: I don't like to mention WoW, but I will, how long it takes WoW to release a BG or a Raid for that matter? and it has much more resources than Bioware, oh, but thats an AAA MMO, right?

    Edit: Didn't really like how this came out, it will probably lead to misinterpretation.

  • MyriaMyria Lowell, MAPosts: 570Member Uncommon

    It's been quite a while since it mattered what Bioware did -- as far as most of these armchair devs are concerned, anyway. Literally the only thing they could do that might please them is announce they were shutting down the game, and even then there would be as much bitching about how they did it as there was nasty self-satisfied "I told you so" posts.

    Seriously, just look at this thread. Most of these posts hit the same tired talking points, the same righteous fury, the same transparently faux rage. How in the hell these people haven't gotten sick of carrying this weird torch is a mystery, I suppose it mostly comes down to safety. The forum herd has declared all out war on ToR, so it's safe to pile on. Original thought be damned, it's all EAWare's fault that SWG is dead! Or whatever the twisted rational might be this week.

    For better or ill -- better, mostly -- sites like this one long ago made themselves irrelevant to the overall market. Between the endless hype/crash addiction, the desperate need to knock anything remotely popular, and the constant sewer of vitriol, they've turned -- assuming they were ever anything else -- into an online version of those too-cool-for-you record stores of yore where only bands no one else has even heard of could possibly be decent and the main activity was looking down one's nose at anyone not you. Amusing places to visit from time-to-time, but amusing in large part because of how wholly and totally irrelevant they were in the grander scheme of things, and how little self-awareness they had.

    It's amusingly notable that Rift has same-sex marriage -- with, unlike ToR, no apparent reason for marriage at all, given the near complete lack of story, let alone romantic storylines -- and no one really cares. ToR talks about adding it and it's a sign of the apocalypse.

    Imagine that.

  • mnemic666mnemic666 asdf, CAPosts: 157Member Uncommon

    I've been a big critic of BioWare and SWTOR since launch, as I feel it's the most disappointing handling of an extremely promising game/property with a ton of potential in the history of...well maybe ever. But this is ABSOLUTELY not one thing I've criticized them about.

    I'll critisize them for taking so long to implement it, but I'm not going to critisize their implementation from anything other than a development standpoint. Their implementation comes as a result of a development team that's inept, understaffed, and mismanaged. Its small scope is a direct result the previous poor live development for this game.

    However, I fully support them making a move to implement the feature in order to stay true to their word (even if it is quite late), and their desire to continue expanding it in the future.

    There are a MILLION reasons to criticize BioWare and SWTOR, and a whole lot of them are extremely valid. But the criticism that this feature has received is a result of:

    1. Bigots who can't handle that OMG GAY IS A THING AND IT'S IN MY GAMEZZZZZZZ. There's no point in sugar coating it, they're bigots just as those in the 60's who supported segregation were bigots.

    2. People who feel that BioWare apparently has some hatred of SGR/LBGT (something which isn't exactly true, and is definitely not true of EA) so they are segregating them on one planet. If they didn't want it in the game, they coudl do what they've done with the grey moral alignment rewards and the super secret space project; pretend it doesn't exist and not talk about it.

    I criticize the hell out of BioWare for SWTOR in every aspect, but I support their implementation, and hopfully expansion, of this feature in the game. Equality matters, and if you're going to include features like scripted romances in the game, make sure that everyone is covered (let's not go down the, I WANT TO ROMANCE MY SPEEDER/JAWA/ANIMAL BLAH BLAH road, that's pointless and you know it).

  • HarafnirHarafnir VikingvillePosts: 1,324Member Uncommon
    Good read and I agree. Bioware has done a lot of stupid stuff since joining EA (always seem to happen in combinaiton with EA) but giving players more options to play a game the way they want it is not one of those stupid things.

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • SamhaelSamhael Huntsville, ALPosts: 699Member Uncommon

    Give BioWare a break?  Nope. They had their chance and blew it big time.

    But that has nothing to do the the same-sex relationship thing. It's the game itself.  SWTOR, DA2, and ME3 were massive disappointments. I've learned my lesson.

  • MisatoTremorMisatoTremor HamburgPosts: 62Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by bigsmiff
    I think that people put the pressure on Bioware to add it when they obviously didn't want to put it in their game. Star Wars has always been a somewhat family friendly IP, and now people want to change it into something that it has never been. Bioware should have just told people no in the beginning and left it at that. Now they are under pressure to add stuff that has no business being in a video game.

    *Just my opinion*


    They said no at that time but that caused an even madder outrage as the one we have now. So they changed course on this matter.

    Maybe they'll change this time, too. But that would cause SGR implementation or even the whole expansion to be pushed back for obvious reasons.

    Overall I'd say Bioware/EA have managed to almost make one unlucky decision after another with SWTOR.

    Misato - TankDoc for Life
    image
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by TrunksZ
    Originally posted by Aeonblades

    Great 534 pages. For a game that sold millions of copies. Half of the posts are just filler, you do realize this? It's still not the point, you keep going on and on about SGR like it matters, put it in, leave it out, most people don't care, just fix the game is my point.

    And I guess wanting to have a game be fun and playable is too high of an expectation for a AAA MMO these days. Silly me for wanting a game to play. One new battleground and one new raid means nothing if half the game is still broken and buggy.

    Game is fun already, but it feels like some players are just looking for things to complain, help me understand your point of view what do you mean the game is "broken and buggy"?

    Edit: I don't like to mention WoW, but I will, how long it takes WoW to release a BG or a Raid for that matter? and it has much more resources than Bioware, oh, but thats an AAA MMO, right?

    Edit: Didn't really like how this came out, it will probably lead to misinterpretation.

    Glitches, falling through objects, black screen at character select half the time (still) unbelievable lag if more than 10ish people are on the screen, horrendously slow combat/button recognition just to name a few. Don't use WoW as a reference, it's a game from 2006 which they have pulled most of their developers off of for another project. I don't play WoW anymore for the same reasons SWTOR is going down the drain, lack of credible development of features people actually want and not fluff filler content.

    Not to mention WoW hasn't had truly challenging content since TBC. I'm not trying to be negative against Bioware or SWTOR, but a fan boy can only be a fan boy so long before he gets fed up with it.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon
    My only problem with it is that the game has so many flaws, bugs to correct, things to implement and yet they decided to spend money and their time on this crap. For me, unacceptable 
This discussion has been closed.