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Violence and Video games, here we go again

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  • thexratedthexrated OuluPosts: 1,368Member Common
    Originally posted by Scot

    Video games do not put guns into their player’s hands. They do not make parents want to leave their guns accessible to teenagers.

    This argument has been going on for decades. I loved GTA, remember the storm over that series? But it never made me want to steal cars, deal drugs or visit a prostitute.

    Politicians always need to find a solution, even when you don't need one. They need to be seen to do the right thing, which too often does not help. This is a problem today more than ever, with the news media clammering for answers and 24hr news raising those calls to fervour pitch.

    Society should make laws that benefit the majority or protect a minority.

    While most of us would not go and steal a car or visit a prostitute, after playing a video game, few will. It is a very small minority that have a problem making a distinction between movies/video games and real-life.

    The question for the law makers is that would it protect the majority interests by banning violent video games. I would say that it would not. There have been good studies on this subject in the past. The world, at least the western world, is a lot safer these days that it has ever been before. It is because of this that random acts of violence cause so much discussion. The society has a need to explain these acts by claiming that there is something wrong with the people committing these acts and video games, like movies and even music was in the past. It is a convenient explonation.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 414Member Uncommon

    I've been playing violent video games all my life. If i find a bug in my apartment, i catch it, name it, feed it, play with it for a while, and finally release it outside. That's how violent i am.

     

    I would listen to this argument, if someone had an actual argument to begin with.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,751Member Uncommon

    One thing for you US guys to realise. Here in the UK with the gun laws we have, we still have the media bringing up the link between video game violence and gun crime every few years.

    No matter what your laws and crime rate is on guns, drugs or the sex trade the finger gets pointed at video games. Video games are the new comics, which used to get blamed for the downfall of morals and responsibility in society. Quite simply, if teenagers have an activity like reading comics which their parents did not have, then that activity is to blame for societies woes.

    We will not see an end to blaming video games until today’s 30 something gamers are all in their 70’s.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Games like CoD and WoW dont make me want to kill anyone.

    Shows like Jersey Shore and HoneyBooBoo make me want to kill everyone

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  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    People ultimately make the choice of taking a life. I do not see a movie, nor do I see a video game helping make that decision. Anyone that feels the urge to commit violent acts after watching a movie or playing a video game, has issues that are far beyond Hollywood & video games.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    The real life guy that was the inspiration behind both psycho and the Texas chainsaw massacre was fixated on Disneys snow white. If someone's got a warped enough mind they will see what they want to see.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Its not the video games. Its the guns. Japan, South Korea and any number of other countries play a lot of video games and they have nowhere near the gun violence United States has. Its the guns. Americans have lots of them and it is hard to take them away from them once they are out there.

    Restricting sales helps, but we won't see improvement in a long while. Meanwhile, the NRA and their buddies will say the current government is breaking their constitutional rights and the measures taken don't work because there won't be an immediate reduction in gun deaths now, will there? Like I said, you can't get the guns back that are already out there.

    Well... its a mess. I don't think there's enough good people in America to solve this one.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member

    Lets ignore all the rpa music that preeches about gangs, drive by shooting, bitches n hoes and all that other crap that a huge portion of teenagers and young adults listen to and try to idolize who really never touch a video game or at least give any serious time.

    Also the effects of aggressive behavior is very short term.  There is as much if not more when one sees an image of a gun, that is not comparing to the effects of TV media.

    Really if they are gonna censor violent media then your gonna have to live in hippie flower land or something.  Heeeeyyyyy mannn

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Scot

    One thing for you US guys to realise. Here in the UK with the gun laws we have, we still have the media bringing up the link between video game violence and gun crime every few years.

    No matter what your laws and crime rate is on guns, drugs or the sex trade the finger gets pointed at video games. Video games are the new comics, which used to get blamed for the downfall of morals and responsibility in society. Quite simply, if teenagers have an activity like reading comics which their parents did not have, then that activity is to blame for societies woes.

    We will not see an end to blaming video games until today’s 30 something gamers are all in their 70’s.

    Yes, they will continue to blame inanimate objects instead of the person. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions anymore.

    I have to ask you, according to crime statistics, per capita, the UK is the #4 most violent country in Europe, #20-something in the world, about 20 - 30 rankings higher than the US. Are all violent crimes blamed on violent video games, or just the ones that envolve guns? I read that the number of stabbings has dratically increased after your ban on guns, so I was wondering if there has been a shift in blame that accounts for that as well.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    I don't think its just the guns that is the issue, I think its the lack of proper use of the guns that is the problem.

    From what I understand, almost everyone knows the very basics of Gun, but have no knowledge of the power of Guns and their ability to take a life.

    If we educated everyone who want to purchase a gun, just like getting a driver's license. We would eliminate all the Gun related accident deaths.

    Age does not determine ones responsibility, knowledge does. Just because you are 40 years old, does not mean you are automatically given the knowledge to drive a car, nor does knowing how to drive a car, automatically teaches you how to ride a motocycle or a Truck. Each different cars requires individual licenses, the same should apply to Guns.

    And when will you ever need assault rifles or Full Automatic guns or Machineguns.

    Don't stop people from getting guns, teach them, make them get licenses then the responsibilities is in their hands.

    Then we can say that if you let someone else handle your gun, you lose your license and all the guns are taken away, until you reapply your licenses.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Americas odd, the general violence seems lower there than over here.

    I've had American colleagues over and they were genuinely shocked at the drunken brawls and what have you when I took them out. But to me is the norm. If anything was worse in the 80s when I was a kid, my city nowadays feels a lot safer than other UK cities.

    Where as when I've been over there I'm shocked at how quiet and well mannered your sort of general lower middle class / working working class neighborhoods are. (i mean your inner city ghetto areas are way scarrier than ours, but your average working guy areas seem milder.

    I wonder if there's a cultural thing of having this mannered, calm, well behaving attitude and bottling things up until they explode.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    I wonder if there's a cultural thing of having this mannered, calm, well behaving attitude and bottling things up until they explode.

    I'd say you're on to something there.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Norse we covered this in the other thread.

    There is no way on earth the UK is the 4th most violent country in the world.

    Look at any country involved in cocaine or heroin production for a start. Then anywhere with abject poverty, civil wars, Islamic militants etc..

    I've got family in Jamaica that's one country for a start that's some order of magnitude more violent than the UK. (mostly due to its position in the cocaine route from south America to Europe, like Mexico and Bolivia are to the usa)
  • FreezzoFreezzo EnschedePosts: 235Member

    Just did a google search on violence and video games (and other terms like fighting, etc...) and all I found was gamers doing fun stuff and people whining about violent video games. No articles anywhere on a gamer or someone that played violent videogames a lot (I suppose less than 1 hr a day doesn't count really) doing violent deeds. At least, not as main reason for the act of agression...

    How about we all grab a nice glass of anything, put on some Whitesnake (Here we go again) and just laugh at the fools for a while?

    "We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
    And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,635Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot

    Violence and Video games, here we go again

    Video games do not put guns into their player’s hands. They do not make parents want to leave their guns accessible to teenagers.

    This argument has been going on for decades. I loved GTA, remember the storm over that series? But it never made me want to steal cars, deal drugs or visit a prostitute.

    Politicians always need to find a solution, even when you don't need one. They need to be seen to do the right thing, which too often does not help. This is a problem today more than ever, with the news media clammering for answers and 24hr news raising those calls to fervour pitch.

    I don't know enough about the gun issue to make a comment on that, but I do know video games have been a scapegoat for years. Politicians and even more so the media have to blame someone.

     

    Indeed, here we go again... with both extremes polarizing the debate with undebatable declarations of 'fact'.

    I have not made my mind up about the full impact of desenstisation or violent games acting as a cataclyst for those pre disposed (but otherwise might not have acted on their impulses) to violent behaviour, simply because I have neither read or been part of enough studies on it to be sure either way 100%. 

    Have you? What do you base such a strong set of statements on?

    Personally, I welcome the debate, as long as real information is bought to bear. Personal anecdotes and 'I play games and I am alright' from an individual do not count as valid information here... You do not represent everyone and what may be ok for you might not be for others. 

     

    Look, like on most things to do with life, I tend to not trust people who want to constantly tell me 'how it is'.

    If you are not asking questions and exploring truth (not just *your* truth) then you are just another blow hard really. I get the need to defend what you love, and your choices and behaviours, from outside assault but... well, you get it...

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Americas odd, the general violence seems lower there than over here.

    I've had American colleagues over and they were genuinely shocked at the drunken brawls and what have you when I took them out. But to me is the norm. If anything was worse in the 80s when I was a kid, my city nowadays feels a lot safer than other UK cities.

    Where as when I've been over there I'm shocked at how quiet and well mannered your sort of general lower middle class / working working class neighborhoods are. (i mean your inner city ghetto areas are way scarrier than ours, but your average working guy areas seem milder.

    I wonder if there's a cultural thing of having this mannered, calm, well behaving attitude and bottling things up until they explode.

    You nailed it but it will never be in public discussion. There is a link to what you have said and violent crimes. Look at our crime statistics. There is a common denominator.

    - demographics

    - inner city

    - States/cities with more gun control have more gun related murders.

    The further you move away from those 3 things, the more guns people have, less gun laws, and the demographics change. Less violent crimes.

    An armed society, is a polite society. Government crime statistics proves this.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Scot

    Violence and Video games, here we go again

    Video games do not put guns into their player’s hands. They do not make parents want to leave their guns accessible to teenagers.

    This argument has been going on for decades. I loved GTA, remember the storm over that series? But it never made me want to steal cars, deal drugs or visit a prostitute.

    Politicians always need to find a solution, even when you don't need one. They need to be seen to do the right thing, which too often does not help. This is a problem today more than ever, with the news media clammering for answers and 24hr news raising those calls to fervour pitch.

    I don't know enough about the gun issue to make a comment on that, but I do know video games have been a scapegoat for years. Politicians and even more so the media have to blame someone.

     

    Indeed, here we go again... with both extremes polarizing the debate with

    I have not made my mind up about the full impact of desenstisation or violent games acting as a cataclyst for those pre disposed (but otherwise might not have acted on their impulses) to violent behaviour, simply because I have neither read or been part of enough studies on it to be sure either way 100%. 

    Have you? What do you base such a strong set of statements on?

    Personally, I welcome the debate, as long as real information is bought to bear. Personal anecdotes and 'I play games and I am alright' from an individual do not count as valid information here... You do not represent everyone and what may be ok for you might not be for others. 

     

    Look, like on most things to do with life, I tend to not trust people who want to constantly tell me 'how it is'.

    If you are not asking questions and exploring truth (not just *your* truth) then you are just another blow hard really. I get the need to defend what you love, and your choices and behaviours, from outside assault but... well, you get it...

    I do agree.

    However, I have a hard time blaming inanimate obects for people's actions. Mass murder didn't just pop up out of nowhere after video games. It's going on since the beginning of man.

    But yes, if there is to be a discussion, than all information should be on the table.

    You know, I think it's better if we the people got together and worked this out instead of a group of politicians who are lobbied by one group or another. We really don't need them, they just look out for themselves not us.

     

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,635Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Scot

    Violence and Video games, here we go again

    Video games do not put guns into their player’s hands. They do not make parents want to leave their guns accessible to teenagers.

    This argument has been going on for decades. I loved GTA, remember the storm over that series? But it never made me want to steal cars, deal drugs or visit a prostitute.

    Politicians always need to find a solution, even when you don't need one. They need to be seen to do the right thing, which too often does not help. This is a problem today more than ever, with the news media clammering for answers and 24hr news raising those calls to fervour pitch.

    I don't know enough about the gun issue to make a comment on that, but I do know video games have been a scapegoat for years. Politicians and even more so the media have to blame someone.

     

    Indeed, here we go again... with both extremes polarizing the debate with undebatable declarations of 'fact'.

    I have not made my mind up about the full impact of desenstisation or violent games acting as a cataclyst for those pre disposed (but otherwise might not have acted on their impulses) to violent behaviour, simply because I have neither read or been part of enough studies on it to be sure either way 100%. 

    Have you? What do you base such a strong set of statements on?

    Personally, I welcome the debate, as long as real information is bought to bear. Personal anecdotes and 'I play games and I am alright' from an individual do not count as valid information here... You do not represent everyone and what may be ok for you might not be for others. 

     

    Look, like on most things to do with life, I tend to not trust people who want to constantly tell me 'how it is'.

    If you are not asking questions and exploring truth (not just *your* truth) then you are just another blow hard really. I get the need to defend what you love, and your choices and behaviours, from outside assault but... well, you get it...

    I do agree.

    However, I have a hard time blaming inanimate obects for people's actions. Mass murder didn't just pop up out of nowhere after video games. It's going on since the beginning of man.

    But yes, if there is to be a discussion, than all information should be on the table.

    You know, I think it's better if we the people got together and worked this out instead of a group of politicians who are lobbied by one group or another. We really don't need them, they just look out for themselves not us.

     

    I think, personally, that people are far more suceptable to influence from media then you seem to... and I don't think we are discussing the 'inanimate object', but the media that object delivers.

    I also don't think the fact that people have always been violent or not is the question, I think it is 'has extreme material shown in certain video games over an extended period ever acted as a desensitiser/ normaliser or catalyst to move inviduals to violent acts that might not have gone there otherwise?' 

    I am right there with you on your views about politicians, but I won't discuss that here past this (forum rules and all that).

  • ZzadZzad Palma de MallorcaPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon

    Everything but blaming their own laws that allow to sell weapons to citizens like Candies....

    As usual...

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Its not the video games. Its the guns.

    It has nothing to do with the guns. If someone has made up there mind to kill people, don't you think they are going to do it at any cost? If not with guns, it would be with explosives or some other means. Besides...

     

    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"

    ~Isoroku Yamamoto~ Japanese Admiral

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    In the west.

    Statistically we had our lowest rates of violence and murder in the 60s. The time when people that make these decisions were kids. These people were lucky to be born in a golden era, today looks bad to them, but now is a way better their grandparents era.

    The general trend of the world in general over the years Is to become LESS violent. You only need compare now to the first half of the twentieth century.

    We occasionally have peaks where it goes up (for example look at new York in the 70s and 80s) but over time its a general downward trend.
  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot

    One thing for you US guys to realise. Here in the UK with the gun laws we have, we still have the media bringing up the link between video game violence and gun crime every few years.

    No matter what your laws and crime rate is on guns, drugs or the sex trade the finger gets pointed at video games. Video games are the new comics, which used to get blamed for the downfall of morals and responsibility in society. Quite simply, if teenagers have an activity like reading comics which their parents did not have, then that activity is to blame for societies woes.

    We will not see an end to blaming video games until today’s 30 something gamers are all in their 70’s.

    You mention the UK Scot, and I find it really interesting how many countries, countries that love their video games (like Germany, South Korea and the UAE), have taken steps to limit the consumption of indecent content in video games.

    Here in the United States, video games are some of the best protected forms of expression in the history of expression.  We have multi-billion dollar media conglomerates who work night and day to put these games out there.  Frankly, even when we pass laws--like we did in California--the courts strike them down.

    So you see, I'm not really sure why we are so agitated over this whole issue.  I don't see our seven video game animations that will make you puke going away any time soon.  In fact, I only see better death scenes, more of an emphasis on gore and more prevalent in the titles to come.

    And you know what, the violence is so pervasive, and so overdone, it really isn't anything "special" anymore.  You see the kind of one-upmanship that occurs between the publishers at things like E3, each one trying to make the gore more shocking than the next guy, so they can get their games noticed.  It ain't "shock and awe" to see Kratos decapitate a zombie in a fountain of blood.  It's shock and yawn.  Seeing a person's head explode isn't even "cool" anymore.  It's just normal.

    In short, gore is just...boring.  One wonders what...if anything...is shocking to a guy who plays games anymore.

    And despite the opinions of our mothers, our educators, our medical experts and our media experts that perhaps...just perhaps...it isn't a good thing when a person finds depictions of exploding heads "boring," they have been--for the most part--successfully ignored and marginalized for the entire history of this issue.

    Don't worry.  Our gorefests are safe.  Those who are running this hyped up "crackdown" on violent video games don't have the money or the political clout to truly crack down on them.  But are mothers safe from the "crackdown" of manchildren on them?

    I find it really funny that we give exploding headshots a pass, but we ought to get tough on mothers instead...as if being a mother isn't "tough" already, and as if they don't already hold themselves responsible for the children they raise.  But what isn't funny is that, given the huge moneyed interests that make a living by selling us ammo, firearms, $60 first person shooters, and virtual guns in the item stores, we might actually get our wishes granted.

    But getting tough on parents isn't going to make exploding heads any less boring to us.

    __________________________
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    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
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  • MagikrorriMMagikrorriM Binghamton, NYPosts: 176Member Uncommon

    They say that guns don't kill people, people kill people, I call bullshit on that guns were designed to serve one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to kill, someone or something. Assult rifles and large capacity anmunitions do not belong in the hands of the public at large, bambi doesn't pack heat.

    When it comes to overthrowing a tyranical government what's an assult rifle going to do against a drone with a nuke? Why not be more productive and address the issues that cause crime in the first place, say like poverty? the monetary system? Living in a state of scarcity? Why do we tolerate it? Only living organizism on the face of the planet that chooses to live in scarcity, think about it.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    I do agree.

    However, I have a hard time blaming inanimate obects for people's actions. Mass murder didn't just pop up out of nowhere after video games. It's going on since the beginning of man.

    But yes, if there is to be a discussion, than all information should be on the table.

    You know, I think it's better if we the people got together and worked this out instead of a group of politicians who are lobbied by one group or another. We really don't need them, they just look out for themselves not us.

     

    I think, personally, that people are far more suceptable to influence from media then you seem to... and I don't think we are discussing the 'inanimate object', but the media that object delivers.

    I also don't think the fact that people have always been violent or not is the question, I think it is 'has extreme material shown in certain video games over an extended period ever acted as a desensitiser/ normaliser or catalyst to move inviduals to violent acts that might not have gone there otherwise?' 

    I am right there with you on your views about politicians, but I won't discuss that here past this (forum rules and all that).

    I don't agree with all of that because I think people are focusing on inanimate objects and not the actions of people, themselves. However, I am interested in your view. I wouldn't rule it out and I would like to hear more opinions from all of us.

    It is we who have the authority over games over those who have never picked one up. Those people shouldn't be allowed to pass judgement for the rest of us.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    If anything, violent video games keep people from going out and killing everyone. Let's them blow some steam off. Sure helps me feel better after dealing with another idiot at work etc.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

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