what i want to see is fleshed out quests, to be honest, id rather 100 lengthy quests that are challenging,fleshed out with a few head scratches than anything the industry offers in the way of "quests" the best ive seen so far are tsw's where the quests generally have multiple tiers, but it still doesnt come close to what im envisioning, some features, i know are asking to much in mmo's but whats a game without those goals?
i agree with all of these with some provisous teleports should be fewer yes but i dotn want to spend half as hour getting somewhere but we definatly shouldnt have multiple teleports within one zone
I dont mind makeing crap to skill up tradeskills but rare stuff u actually want to use should have a huge skillup bonus
Originally posted by dbstylin34 what i want to see is fleshed out quests, to be honest, id rather 100 lengthy quests that are challenging,fleshed out with a few head scratches than anything the industry offers in the way of "quests" the best ive seen so far are tsw's where the quests generally have multiple tiers, but it still doesnt come close to what im envisioning, some features, i know are asking to much in mmo's but whats a game without those goals?
you have obviously never done everquests epics or eq2s heritage quests
everquests old school quests ... some of them dont even have clues as to their trigger words no handy () around em
Solution let players write quests ive heard far to often that it takes devs to long to design quests bull pucky but let players write it out
devs could change what mob it drops off of so the designer doesnt have unfair advantage
they could even give players kits which along with a create a zone feature the ability to design fights
The quest would be done just need polishing, and review is it challenging enough is it good enough? have player volunteers put it through a 1st review to weed out the crap
The program i envision could tell how long you spent working on it ( and not idle afk time) and wouldnt even submit quicky done junk. voila epic quests on the cheap
I like crafting, hmm maybe thats not entirely true, sometimes it makes me want to gauge my eyes out. Rather I like being self-sufficient and crafting is part of that.
It is a very very fine like between good crafting, and a horrible grind, and sometimes just depends on my mood.
One thing that I have noticed about games with "good crafting" that I absolutely hate is the level requirements. I"ll use Istaria as an example. My latest dragon is lvl 15 adventurere and now 32 crafter. At level 20 (either crafting or adventurer) I was able to use a next tier scale pack (back pack for dragons) but I can't craft it till 36, at which point their is only 4 more levels till I can use the next tier scale pack which I can't craft till 60 and I allready use the next pack.
This makes crafting IMO completely pointless. Why craft something I can't use. Let me be able to craft it when I can use it, or relatively soon after I use it, not when it's completely pointless. It just bugs me.
Thats what I want out of MMO's, usefull crafting (no not no dropped loot just usefull crafting).
but how wouold you prevent twinking then theres got to be some limits
As to the OP's original post: I can do without the darkness. I never really liked them in other games. Since I'm playing a game, I don't have my other senses such as smell, surround sound, and spidey sense to enhance my surroundings while in the darkness. I want to play the game, not stumble into trees.
The other two on the wish list I agree with completely. Slower leveling curve and worthwhile crafting would be great.
smelll would be fun in a game imagine you just got don slaughtering 50 bazillion giant hellrats in a dank sewer now most people wont want to sell its not really smell but its simulated
senses in a game might not be impossible to i heard sony has ways to put senses into your brain like suddenly you smell somethibng burning and it doesnt req surgery
Interactive crafting...if possible. Honestly cannot recall which MMORPG I tried that had this (Maybe AoC?), but on the same level...
Say you want to be a Blacksmith and make armor. First...crafted gear should be better than raid gear. If not in stats (To keep raiding worth while), in looks. Allow the blacksmith to customize armor looks. Interchange parts and dabble with color. Maybe they could even be able to change the looks of that raid armor you just got to give it a unique look.
Sure, it would take a huge parts library surplus and a color palette to allow for this...hence why IDK if it could be done or not...but would be nice.
But make the Blacksmith able to stand at the forge and use the tools of the Blacksmith. Depending on many factors (Tool used, ingredients added, forge temperatures, etc.) you can succeed or fail, and have different outcomes.
I've always felt that twinking is really only an issue in PvP environments. In a purely PvE environment (which after 5 year on a pvp server tends to be my preference now) twinking isn't really relevant. So what if that guy over there that I'm not playing with can power through the mobs. So what if his "advantage" lets him level up speedily. Speedy leveling up isn't the point. Enjoying the content is the point. We saw all kinds of twinking in EQ back in the day. Warriors running around in fungi tunics, etc. It wasn't a problem. Sometimes if we were having trouble with a bit of content we would even see if that warrior would give us a hand. In PvE I've never really been effected in a negative way by a twink. Not ever. Does the twink have an advantage in killing the mobs? Yes. Does that really effect your game play? No. It can, however, effect your attitude if you let it.
That said, PvP is a bit of a different story. Twinks in PvP obviously have an advantage over others of the same level that actually effects them. Very few people think it's fun to have their warriors two shotted by a cleric that is three levels lower than they are. That DOES effect game play. I don't have a clear answer for how to deal with twinking in PvP. In arena style it would seem pretty easy to make a kind of gear score and do matching based on it. In open world that is a bit harder. You could potentially make a system where the more people someone kills without dying they more valuable they become to kill and could even indicate their value with an icon floating over their heads. In this way twinks would become targets in OW PvP pretty quickly.
Moral of the story: In PvE just let the twinking happen. No worries. In PvP you would need some kind of systemic limiter to overcome the advantage.
Well at least us true mmo players, not the ones that jumped in because mmos are now attracting the single game player.
Slow leveling helps to make friends. That friend that you made at level 25 is now level 47 all because you had to go to work the next day and he did not.
"true" mmo players .. that makes me laugh. There is no true anything. MMOs are just entertainment products that changes based on market desire.
but people who have the need to call themselves 'true anything' are typically in need of much confidence, convincing, and are merely grasping for an identity.
please, don't take this away from him, because if he had much else he would not require the title of a 'true MMO player' to find comfort with his identity.
I like crafting, hmm maybe thats not entirely true, sometimes it makes me want to gauge my eyes out. Rather I like being self-sufficient and crafting is part of that.
It is a very very fine like between good crafting, and a horrible grind, and sometimes just depends on my mood.
One thing that I have noticed about games with "good crafting" that I absolutely hate is the level requirements. I"ll use Istaria as an example. My latest dragon is lvl 15 adventurere and now 32 crafter. At level 20 (either crafting or adventurer) I was able to use a next tier scale pack (back pack for dragons) but I can't craft it till 36, at which point their is only 4 more levels till I can use the next tier scale pack which I can't craft till 60 and I allready use the next pack.
This makes crafting IMO completely pointless. Why craft something I can't use. Let me be able to craft it when I can use it, or relatively soon after I use it, not when it's completely pointless. It just bugs me.
Thats what I want out of MMO's, usefull crafting (no not no dropped loot just usefull crafting).
but how wouold you prevent twinking then theres got to be some limits
Crafting something when I can use it is a far removed argument from twinking. If I am level 20 I want to be able to craft lvl 20 items, not wait till I am 35 to be able to craft them.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
That's why I have a sub going in Vanguard, that's the only game I really still get the oldschool feeling even if they have made some things alittle easier over the years.
I wonder, if it only takes 7, 10, 15 years to burn a player out to the point where he gives up on MMOs and begins chanting doom...
...how many years until he tires of chanting doom and finds another hobby?
LOL ...
That is the other thing that mysterifies me. If people don't like MMOs, why do they come here? It is not like there is a lack of other things to do.
They like MMO's just not the diatribe served up these days that are not MMO's. That is the answer to your question, it is not as simple as saying if people don't like MMOs and thats just half the problem.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
sorry i just took the lvl requirement as lvl req for item use not for makeing i just dont think its right for a lvl 50 crafter to make and use a lvl 50 sword and armor set and power his way to 50 adventureing.. if you keep adventureing and crafting seperate levels
but how wouold you prevent twinking then theres got to be some limits
I really think the best way to avoid this problem is to have a single avatar system. Age of Wushu has this I believe.
I really think that is the way to go, it removes some of the anonymous player actions, which makes for a better community.
People will think twice about acting like a clown if they can't just go hop on an alt and keep on playing.
Sure some people will buy multiple accounts, I don't think the developers will mind if a small percentage of folks gives them more money.
As long as the leveling curve is slowed as suggested by the OP, it could be difficult to advance several accounts at once so it might not be worth the effort except to the most devoted/deranged.
Like everything else written in these threads, a lot depends upon the other systems in the game. This would obviously would not work well in a class based game.
Going forward though, the single avatar system is my favorite.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
Comments
i agree with all of these with some provisous teleports should be fewer yes but i dotn want to spend half as hour getting somewhere but we definatly shouldnt have multiple teleports within one zone
I dont mind makeing crap to skill up tradeskills but rare stuff u actually want to use should have a huge skillup bonus
you have obviously never done everquests epics or eq2s heritage quests
everquests old school quests ... some of them dont even have clues as to their trigger words no handy () around em
Solution let players write quests ive heard far to often that it takes devs to long to design quests bull pucky but let players write it out
devs could change what mob it drops off of so the designer doesnt have unfair advantage
they could even give players kits which along with a create a zone feature the ability to design fights
The quest would be done just need polishing, and review is it challenging enough is it good enough? have player volunteers put it through a 1st review to weed out the crap
The program i envision could tell how long you spent working on it ( and not idle afk time) and wouldnt even submit quicky done junk. voila epic quests on the cheap
but how wouold you prevent twinking then theres got to be some limits
smelll would be fun in a game imagine you just got don slaughtering 50 bazillion giant hellrats in a dank sewer now most people wont want to sell its not really smell but its simulated
senses in a game might not be impossible to i heard sony has ways to put senses into your brain like suddenly you smell somethibng burning and it doesnt req surgery
Interactive crafting...if possible. Honestly cannot recall which MMORPG I tried that had this (Maybe AoC?), but on the same level...
Say you want to be a Blacksmith and make armor. First...crafted gear should be better than raid gear. If not in stats (To keep raiding worth while), in looks. Allow the blacksmith to customize armor looks. Interchange parts and dabble with color. Maybe they could even be able to change the looks of that raid armor you just got to give it a unique look.
Sure, it would take a huge parts library surplus and a color palette to allow for this...hence why IDK if it could be done or not...but would be nice.
But make the Blacksmith able to stand at the forge and use the tools of the Blacksmith. Depending on many factors (Tool used, ingredients added, forge temperatures, etc.) you can succeed or fail, and have different outcomes.
On Twinking:
I've always felt that twinking is really only an issue in PvP environments. In a purely PvE environment (which after 5 year on a pvp server tends to be my preference now) twinking isn't really relevant. So what if that guy over there that I'm not playing with can power through the mobs. So what if his "advantage" lets him level up speedily. Speedy leveling up isn't the point. Enjoying the content is the point. We saw all kinds of twinking in EQ back in the day. Warriors running around in fungi tunics, etc. It wasn't a problem. Sometimes if we were having trouble with a bit of content we would even see if that warrior would give us a hand. In PvE I've never really been effected in a negative way by a twink. Not ever. Does the twink have an advantage in killing the mobs? Yes. Does that really effect your game play? No. It can, however, effect your attitude if you let it.
That said, PvP is a bit of a different story. Twinks in PvP obviously have an advantage over others of the same level that actually effects them. Very few people think it's fun to have their warriors two shotted by a cleric that is three levels lower than they are. That DOES effect game play. I don't have a clear answer for how to deal with twinking in PvP. In arena style it would seem pretty easy to make a kind of gear score and do matching based on it. In open world that is a bit harder. You could potentially make a system where the more people someone kills without dying they more valuable they become to kill and could even indicate their value with an icon floating over their heads. In this way twinks would become targets in OW PvP pretty quickly.
Moral of the story: In PvE just let the twinking happen. No worries. In PvP you would need some kind of systemic limiter to overcome the advantage.
but people who have the need to call themselves 'true anything' are typically in need of much confidence, convincing, and are merely grasping for an identity.
please, don't take this away from him, because if he had much else he would not require the title of a 'true MMO player' to find comfort with his identity.
but yes, you are totally right.
Crafting something when I can use it is a far removed argument from twinking. If I am level 20 I want to be able to craft lvl 20 items, not wait till I am 35 to be able to craft them.
OP great post +1
That's why I have a sub going in Vanguard, that's the only game I really still get the oldschool feeling even if they have made some things alittle easier over the years.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
its really simple.
some people want a game to have reaccuring fun.
some people want a game to live in.
some people just takes things as they come, and could be happy with either.
some will never be happy.
say what you want, we are ALL (as mmo gamers) at least ONE of the above. It is really not all that complicated or worth 20k threads a year on MMORPG.
They like MMO's just not the diatribe served up these days that are not MMO's. That is the answer to your question, it is not as simple as saying if people don't like MMOs and thats just half the problem.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
i don't think this means what you think it does.
diatribe - bitter verbal critisism.
i don't understand how a MMO can be this.
I really think the best way to avoid this problem is to have a single avatar system. Age of Wushu has this I believe.
I really think that is the way to go, it removes some of the anonymous player actions, which makes for a better community.
People will think twice about acting like a clown if they can't just go hop on an alt and keep on playing.
Sure some people will buy multiple accounts, I don't think the developers will mind if a small percentage of folks gives them more money.
As long as the leveling curve is slowed as suggested by the OP, it could be difficult to advance several accounts at once so it might not be worth the effort except to the most devoted/deranged.
Like everything else written in these threads, a lot depends upon the other systems in the game. This would obviously would not work well in a class based game.
Going forward though, the single avatar system is my favorite.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.