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Son, I am proud

QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
There is no way this is not going to sound patronizing, but here it goes anyway...
 
I feel we've been through a couple of phases here on the forums of MMORPG.com - infact, we are in a middle of a few. But I have noticed we have gotten over one fairly persistent one. It was when some posters thought that the people who enjoyed modern MMOs weren't "mature enough" to enjoy old-school MMOs.
 
Now the whole argument was laughable, but it was their way of bashing the players and the games of today back then. Its been quite a while now that I've seen comments like these, so I think it is safe to say that this phase is behind us and those posters have grown a little.

 
I know, I know, some still call the players stupid and lazy the developers inept, lazy, greedy and/or out of touch etc, but I'm encouraged to find that even with all this negativity, we are still moving forward. We are steadily heading towards acceptance that not everyone likes the same games we ourselves do and it is perfecly fine. And if the developer sees us as a niché market, thats OK too, we just have to rely on indie developers more.
 
Its all good.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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Comments

  • ObiClownobiObiClownobi CoruscantPosts: 186Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    There is no way this is not going to sound patronizing, but here it goes anyway...
     
    I feel we've been through a couple of phases here on the forums of MMORPG.com - infact, we are in a middle of a few. But I have noticed we have gotten over one fairly persistent one. It was when some posters thought that the people who enjoyed modern MMOs weren't "mature enough" to enjoy old-school MMOs.
     
    Now the whole argument was laughable, but it was their way of bashing the players and the games of today back then. Its been quite a while now that I've seen comments like these, so I think it is safe to say that this phase is behind us and those posters have grown a little.

     
    I know, I know, some still call the players stupid and lazy the developers inept, lazy, greedy and/or out of touch etc, but I'm encouraged to find that even with all this negativity, we are still moving forward. We are steadily heading towards acceptance that not everyone likes the same games we ourselves do and it is perfecly fine. And if the developer sees us as a niché market, thats OK too, we just have to rely on indie developers more.
     
    Its all good.

    And yet you have admitted you don't play MMOs any more

    image
    "It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by ObiClownobi
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    And yet you have admitted you don't play MMOs any more

    Now, where did I say that?

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,906Member Uncommon

    SWTORs retention and TSWs sales are testaments of the genres progression.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 617Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    SWTORs retention and TSWs sales are testaments of the genres progression.

     

    Ehh? What progress?

  • ZairuZairu Portland, ORPosts: 469Member

    I can't really agree.

    if anything, there is slightly more WoW-tolenrance, meaning, you only get trolled a little bit for mentioning it, rather than the rest of the thread.

     

    the only real problem on this site are the jaded MMO hipsters with smashed rose-colored glasses.

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member
    Originally posted by Zairu

    I can't really agree.

    if anything, there is slightly more WoW-tolenrance, meaning, you only get trolled a little bit for mentioning it, rather than the rest of the thread.

     

    the only real problem on this site are the jaded MMO hipsters with smashed rose-colored glasses.

    See, we have progressed. You've taken a pre-emptive strike on page 1 instead of waiting 3 pages for the pot to boil over.

    Yay us!!!

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • ObiClownobiObiClownobi CoruscantPosts: 186Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by ObiClownobi
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    And yet you have admitted you don't play MMOs any more

    Now, where did I say that?

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5506823#5506823

    here, just yesterday

    image
    "It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by ObiClownobi
    Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by ObiClownobi Originally posted by Quirhid  
    And yet you have admitted you don't play MMOs any more
    Now, where did I say that?
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5506823#5506823

    here, just yesterday




    image

    I could not resist.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    SWTORs retention and TSWs sales are testaments of the genres progression.

    Ehh? What progress?

    TSW had the agility and foresight to change their business model to save their game.  Not long ago they along with the rest of studios would have let it die blaming the game and not the business model.  I think they learned and progressed from AoC and its horrible transition to F2P.

    Starting off with the triple dip wasn't the wisest decision, but maybe they were testing the waters.  Once they figured out the temperature really was tepid, they adjusted and moved on.  Good for them.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,852Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zairu

    I can't really agree.

    if anything, there is slightly more WoW-tolenrance, meaning, you only get trolled a little bit for mentioning it, rather than the rest of the thread.

     

    the only real problem on this site are the jaded MMO hipsters with smashed rose-colored glasses.

     

    I agree and I think it's because people discovered there was something worse than WoW, an array of games like WoW but not as polished or supported image.  Now most of those games are free which beings me to my next point:

     

    IMO I see the jaded "old timers" (I would probably be included in this group) as the stuffy-shirt conservatives of the fanbase proclaiming how good "the old days" were.  Who are the hipsters? I think they are the F2P players that brag about how they don't spend anything and thier gameplay is paid for by others like it's some well thought out scheme.  There's a snootiness to it for sure.

  • CecropiaCecropia The Great White North, ONPosts: 3,471Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ObiClownobi
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by ObiClownobi
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    And yet you have admitted you don't play MMOs any more

    Now, where did I say that?

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5506823#5506823

    here, just yesterday

    Boom! Good eye ;)

    And Lizardbones: your reply had me in tears. Thanks.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by ObiClownobi

    Originally posted by Quirhid 

    here, just yesterday


    I could not resist.

    When I'm "actively playing" something, I don't play anything else except maybe some recently released (very good) SP game. Point is, I have 2-3 MMOs installed on my PC right now, and I don't feel like logging into any of them daily - hence "not actively playing". Awaiting to see if I get into Neverwinter's beta.

    ...and lizardbones should've atleast waited for my reply. image

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • ZairuZairu Portland, ORPosts: 469Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Originally posted by Zairu

    I can't really agree.

    if anything, there is slightly more WoW-tolenrance, meaning, you only get trolled a little bit for mentioning it, rather than the rest of the thread.

     

    the only real problem on this site are the jaded MMO hipsters with smashed rose-colored glasses.

     

    I agree and I think it's because people discovered there was something worse than WoW, an array of games like WoW but not as polished or supported image.  Now most of those games are free which beings me to my next point:

     

    IMO I see the jaded "old timers" (I would probably be included in this group) as the stuffy-shirt conservatives of the fanbase proclaiming how good "the old days" were.  Who are the hipsters? I think they are the F2P players that brag about how they don't spend anything and thier gameplay is paid for by others like it's some well thought out scheme.  There's a snootiness to it for sure.

     

     

    the hipsters are those that feel self-entitled and look down on others for making choices that vary from their own, which is really ridiculous considering that we are only talking about video games. but still it persists.

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 617Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    TSW had the agility and foresight to change their business model to save their game.  Not long ago they along with the rest of studios would have let it die blaming the game and not the business model.  I think they learned and progressed from AoC and its horrible transition to F2P.

    Starting off with the triple dip wasn't the wisest decision, but maybe they were testing the waters.  Once they figured out the temperature really was tepid, they adjusted and moved on.  Good for them.

    OH I see. That is progress since the game still lives while it really died.

     

    I wonder if science can copy that to include humans.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by ObiClownobi

    Originally posted by Quirhid 

    here, just yesterday


    I could not resist.

    When I'm "actively playing" something, I don't play anything else except maybe some recently released (very good) SP game. Point is, I have 2-3 MMOs installed on my PC right now, and I don't feel like logging into any of them daily. Awaiting to see if I get into Neverwinter's beta.

    ...and lizardbones should've atleast waited for my reply. image

    I have internet explorer installed on my PC.  I haven't chosen to use it for years.

    El Psy Congroo

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by ObiClownobi Originally posted by Quirhid 

    here, just yesterday
    I could not resist.
    When I'm "actively playing" something, I don't play anything else except maybe some recently released (very good) SP game. Point is, I have 2-3 MMOs installed on my PC right now, and I don't feel like logging into any of them daily - hence "not actively playing". Awaiting to see if I get into Neverwinter's beta.

    ...and lizardbones should've atleast waited for my reply.




    Oh no. When the universe hands you something like that, you have to act. :-)

    I'm the same way though. I generally focus on one or two games at a time, and it's not always MMOs. That doesn't mean I don't play MMOs, it just means I'm not playing one right now. Except I am playing The Secret World right now.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by lizardbones


    Oh no. When the universe hands you something like that, you have to act. :-)
     

    I get it. We're good. image

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by ObiClownobi

    Originally posted by Quirhid 



    here, just yesterday
    I could not resist.
    When I'm "actively playing" something, I don't play anything else except maybe some recently released (very good) SP game. Point is, I have 2-3 MMOs installed on my PC right now, and I don't feel like logging into any of them daily - hence "not actively playing". Awaiting to see if I get into Neverwinter's beta.

     

    ...and lizardbones should've atleast waited for my reply.



    Oh no. When the universe hands you something like that, you have to act. :-)

    I'm the same way though. I generally focus on one or two games at a time, and it's not always MMOs. That doesn't mean I don't play MMOs, it just means I'm not playing one right now. Except I am playing The Secret World right now.

     

    I wouldn't be surprised if you had posted that from the in-game browser The Secret World includes :)

    El Psy Congroo

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    SWTORs retention and TSWs sales are testaments of the genres progression.

     

    Ehh? What progress?

     

    That's pretty much my interpretation as well.  The genre is changing trying to find growth, that's a given.  If it works, then it's progress.  If it doesn't, then it starts looking like a failed attempt.

     

    The way I see it, MOBAs and flashy Asian F2P MMOs are in growth, but the western MMORPG market itself is floundering.

     

    Regardless of what's behind the trend, one thing I consider clearly evident is that the western market has produced very few clear winners in the least five years.  I hardly consider the current state of the market cause for celebration.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 617Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by XAPGames

     

     

    That's pretty much my interpretation as well.  The genre is changing trying to find growth, that's a given.  If it works, then it's progress.  If it doesn't, then it starts looking like a failed attempt.

     

    The way I see it, MOBAs and flashy Asian F2P MMOs are in growth, but the western MMORPG market itself is floundering.

     

    Regardless of what's behind the trend, one thing I consider clearly evident is that the western market has produced very few clear winners in the least five years.  I hardly consider the current state of the market cause for celebration.

     

    That sir is a good observation. I don't expect much to come out of the indies either becasue they just can't compete with mass productions unless they keep the games simple and stupid and then build on them.

    I see you're still working on WAC and that is a good thing. I always saw that one as potential.  Keep plugging man.

    :)

     

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Zairu

    I can't really agree.

    if anything, there is slightly more WoW-tolenrance, meaning, you only get trolled a little bit for mentioning it, rather than the rest of the thread.

     

    the only real problem on this site are the jaded MMO hipsters with smashed rose-colored glasses.

    Hey, I'll take anything. When they had Darkfall and Mortal Online to wait for, they were reasonably tame. Now... they have nothing coming up for a long time really - or atleast I haven't seen any.

    The next year is gonna be tough for them ...and thats why its gonna be tough for us too.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • ZairuZairu Portland, ORPosts: 469Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Zairu

    I can't really agree.

    if anything, there is slightly more WoW-tolenrance, meaning, you only get trolled a little bit for mentioning it, rather than the rest of the thread.

     

    the only real problem on this site are the jaded MMO hipsters with smashed rose-colored glasses.

    Hey, I'll take anything. When they had Darkfall and Mortal Online to wait for, they were reasonably tame. Now... they have nothing coming up for a long time really - or atleast I haven't seen any.

    The next year is gonna be tough for them ...and thats why its gonna be tough for us too.

     

    i started visiting this site when DF was the 'big topic' and man, those threads were vicious. worse than anything I see here these days.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Zairu
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Zairu

    I can't really agree.

    if anything, there is slightly more WoW-tolenrance, meaning, you only get trolled a little bit for mentioning it, rather than the rest of the thread.

     

    the only real problem on this site are the jaded MMO hipsters with smashed rose-colored glasses.

    Hey, I'll take anything. When they had Darkfall and Mortal Online to wait for, they were reasonably tame. Now... they have nothing coming up for a long time really - or atleast I haven't seen any.

    The next year is gonna be tough for them ...and thats why its gonna be tough for us too.

     

    i started visiting this site when DF was the 'big topic' and man, those threads were vicious. worse than anything I see here these days.

    I remember the huge amount of "WAR IS COMING image" posts.  But then Warhammer Online came... and went.  Then there was darkfall, and it came, and went.  Now its coming back.

    Personally I'm looking forward to things like Embers of Caerus, The Repopulation, ArcheAge and a few others more than anything Aventurine will ever develop.

    I think we can agree that more variety in QUALITY games is a good thing.

    El Psy Congroo

  • FishmittsFishmitts doylestown, PAPosts: 227Member
    When DayZ standalone comes out. We will forever leave you alone........... Ok, at least I will.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Zairu
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    i started visiting this site when DF was the 'big topic' and man, those threads were vicious. worse than anything I see here these days.

    Really? I thought this year, and this fall in particular, has definitely been one of the worst. You see the GW2 craze and fandom birthed quite a hater's club. Some would bring up GW2 and start bashing it even when the topic was about anything but. I'd call that pretty severe.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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