Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Old school MMO's expectations and realities.

2

Comments

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Dewm
    Originally posted by aktalat
    Originally posted by Disdena

    Expectation is subjective. Your opinion on the expectations of the community is doubly subjective. What's your reasoning for saying that expectations have not risen?

    >snip<

    An example would be Age of Empires Online (what a way to kill a franchise)

     

    But anyways, AoEO is really just a RTS with a lobby system. You have your "home city" which is just a lobby to either do, solo quest, or play multiplayer with up 2-4 people... how is that a MMO?!!?

     

    But by todays standards.. it is.

    And? So what if the definition of MMO changes.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,413Member Uncommon

    Disdena brings up a number of good points. 

     

    The OP mentions playing the old school games for 5-8 hours at a pop.   Game developers have realized that a lot of people who might otherwise play (and buy) their games, can't do this with any regularity.  I think the OP underestimates the amount of money that would need to be spent to 'modernize' the old school game;  art, animation, coding, etc;  that has to be paid for, usually upfront, and a resonable return on investment has to be there.   As Disdena points out, many of these games had serious problems.   Bad launches, poor coding, giant chunks that worked poorly or not at all, now substandard art or animation.  Is it 'higher expectations' to want a return to THAT?  SWG had character classes that never worked right.   UO had continual, massive changes, because things didn't work the way the developers intended.  And that was not due to them wanting UO to be a WoW-clone.

     

    The proposed game has to bring in a profit for the people making it.  Until it can be shown there's a real market, all you'll see is small, independant companies doing these types of games, usually with attendant serious issues.   

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • zekeofevzekeofev Mesa, AZPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Disdena brings up a number of good points. 

     

    The OP mentions playing the old school games for 5-8 hours at a pop.   Game developers have realized that a lot of people who might otherwise play (and buy) their games, can't do this with any regularity.  I think the OP underestimates the amount of money that would need to be spent to 'modernize' the old school game;  art, animation, coding, etc;  that has to be paid for, usually upfront, and a resonable return on investment has to be there.   As Disdena points out, many of these games had serious problems.   Bad launches, poor coding, giant chunks that worked poorly or not at all, now substandard art or animation.  Is it 'higher expectations' to want a return to THAT?  SWG had character classes that never worked right.   UO had continual, massive changes, because things didn't work the way the developers intended.  And that was not due to them wanting UO to be a WoW-clone.

     

    The proposed game has to bring in a profit for the people making it.  Until it can be shown there's a real market, all you'll see is small, independant companies doing these types of games, usually with attendant serious issues.   

    Not everyone values the heavily iterized bug free games. In fact some of my favorite games of all time inlcuding Mario 64 and Zelda Ocarina have some insane glitches in them.

     

    I would rather a company bite off more then it can chew then serve me something I have seen many times before but dressed slightly differently.

     

    I value the imagination of the SWG classes even if creature handler was never balanced correctly and was frequently very glitchy. I want that depth of a game and I wish people like you would not say that a large company has no chance in doing a large scope of design just because of resources.

     

    I think a large reason why game development costs so much has been the rapid development of large scale graphics. Eventually I think graphic engines will stabilize in how high they can go and development costs will be less because of all the iterations from other developers can be built upon instead of having to be relearned because of new tech. In this regard I think new tech has hurt game development but because I believe graphical tech is on the end of its cycle, we should see new graphics becoming cheaper over time.

     

    Perhaps a larger portion of bugbet being spent on game system development rather then graphics will actually produce better games? Time will tell.

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Disdena brings up a number of good points. 

     

    The OP mentions playing the old school games for 5-8 hours at a pop.   Game developers have realized that a lot of people who might otherwise play (and buy) their games, can't do this with any regularity.  I think the OP underestimates the amount of money that would need to be spent to 'modernize' the old school game;  art, animation, coding, etc;  that has to be paid for, usually upfront, and a resonable return on investment has to be there.   As Disdena points out, many of these games had serious problems.   Bad launches, poor coding, giant chunks that worked poorly or not at all, now substandard art or animation.  Is it 'higher expectations' to want a return to THAT?  SWG had character classes that never worked right.   UO had continual, massive changes, because things didn't work the way the developers intended.  And that was not due to them wanting UO to be a WoW-clone.

     

    The proposed game has to bring in a profit for the people making it.  Until it can be shown there's a real market, all you'll see is small, independant companies doing these types of games, usually with attendant serious issues.   

     

    We are not disagreeing here, I do admit most people don't have 5-8hrs to play, (I don't anymore) And I know it would take a fair amount of money to "modernize" older MMO's.. 

    But the point of my OP was, expectations have not risen. if anything we expect less from games.

     

    In the old days, we expected player housing

    we expected in-depth crafting

    we expected a good varity of classes

    we expected a large world

     

    ....now days the newer games rarely have any of those features, and if they do its touted as some great accomplishment, some feet that was really difficult, that no game has ever done before.

     

    look at the hype around Archeage... looks to be a awesome game. but does it really have anything that EQ didn't have? 

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by zekeofev

    I would rather a company bite off more then it can chew then serve me something I have seen many times before but dressed slightly differently.

     

    But the company will lose their shirt if they do so. People don't like to buy buggy products.

    For me, good implementation is more important than the idea. There are lot of sequels which are fun games. It is about poilsh and making the details right .. not doing something different for the shake of it.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member

    It's a generational shift mostly.  The people who were playing MMO's 10 years ago were typically in their 20's and 30's (not all obviously, but that was the demographic).  Those same people are now in their 30's and 40's, and their children are just starting to hit their teens and up, meaning there's a big influx of younger players to the genre, and thier expectations are all very different.  They are growing up with constant internet access, hi definition graphics on large TV screens, and bewildering selection of gaming choices on everything from consoles to their phones.

    My point is, younger people are growing up in a world where gaming isn't a hobby as much as it is just another part of their life.  They don't expect MMO's to be what older players expect them to be anymore than you and I don't eat 90% of our meals expecting to be served a cuisine.  A cuisine might taste better, but we are only really eating because it's just one of many things we do (and often enjoy), like shaving or playing basketball or having sex:  we may love to do many things but we do not expect every one of them to be some kind of lifechanging event, usually because we do them so often that they become routine.

    That's gaming for the younger generation.

    You make me like charity

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Oh, never mind.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLPosts: 867Member Uncommon
    A lot of games made circa 2002-2003 are still around, and have been continuously worked on / improved by both dev and community. Graphics are a moving target. It seems like you are asking for a re-skinned version of an older game; why not play one of the classics still in operation instead?

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon

    This reminds me of a phenomena I sometimes encounter.  I spent most of my childhood living in communist Poland before emigrating a few years before the fall of communism.  Every so often I encounter people who want a return of those days.  They are willing to once again put up with the bad things if they can again experience the things they liked about that era.  I have generally fond memories of my childhood but I would never want to return to those times and consider the idea insane.  

    I view the old-school nostalgia the same way.  I put up with a lot of stupid stuff back in those days to play MMORPGs and I am not willing to put up with them again. 

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    The problem with wanting what we had 10 years ago is really not what we want. Let me try and explain.

     

    Example: I want the community feeling back in MMOs where you had server pride and people didn't just stick to their guilds for their social interactions. EQ gave me that with open dungeons where people would chat and help each other out. Something that lacks with the birth of instances. Friendships were made at the docks waiting on boats because you had to pass the time doing something, while getting your fishing skill up. EQ had tons of things like that, that helped foster a more community oriented game.

     

    As much as I want the above, I don't want corpse runs back, I don't want rediculous timesinks that makes me inactive for 20 minutes at a time because I have to wait for a boat. I don't want to sit in one spot pulling the same 5 mobs over and over and over doing the same repetitive action I could probably macro on a timer. I don't want open dungeons where there's competiton over camp spots forcing you to be put on some arbitrary list that could be a mile long.

     

    TLDR: I want the positive from days old but none of the negative. Unfortunally those go hand in hand

     

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member
    Originally posted by Dewm

    But the point of my OP was, expectations have not risen. if anything we expect less from games.

     

    In the old days, we expected player housing

    we expected in-depth crafting

    we expected a good varity of classes

    we expected a large world

     

    ....now days the newer games rarely have any of those features, and if they do its touted as some great accomplishment, some feet that was really difficult, that no game has ever done before.

    I'm still waiting for some examples of this. Can you name an MMO from the old days that did poorly because it lacked one of those features? You can't say people expected those features if they were happily playing games that lacked those features.

    Back then, MMO developers could put whatever mix of features into a game, and people would play it as long as it appealed to them in some way and was polished at least to the point of being playable. Over time, as more and more MMOs came out, some of them had a large world but bad crafting, some had good crafting but no housing, etc. As people saw a more diverse playing field, they no longer had to put up with games that had features they didn't like or lacked features that they cared about.

    image
  • HolophonistHolophonist Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon

    I'd like to weigh in if I may. I'm an oldschool UO player and it's something I've thought/talked about extensively.

     

    The PROBLEM with the current MMO scene is both the community's expectations and the lack of balls from developers to put out something with high risk/reward. There's no question that the market is inundated with WoW clones and all-around generic games with nothing new to offer. GW2 is a great example of this. It's hailed as innovative and groundbreaking but at its core there really isn't much different from any other game. It just looks better, the mundane quests you have to do don't show up in any quest log and instead of a pvp arena, they have WvW. 

     

    Unfortunately because of community expectations I don't think a good, creative, harcore, whatever type of game would do well even if somebody did make it. Take Darkfall for example. On paper it's essentially UO mixed with Shadowbane............... and it failed. You can talk all day about features that were promised/never delivered, or the grind or whatever but the bottom line is if you compare it to UO (especially early UO), Darkfall had MUCH more going for it objectively. The problem is when we played these great games ~10 years ago, we didn't have countless forums to go complain about things we didn't like, or complain about balance of a certain skill/class/etc so we just kind of put up with the slight imperfections and ENJOYED THE GAME.

     

    The new generation will NOT be satisfied by any game imo because they don't feel they have to put up with anything they may not like.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JeremyBowyer

    Unfortunately because of community expectations I don't think a good, creative, harcore, whatever type of game would do well even if somebody did make it. Take Darkfall for example. On paper it's essentially UO mixed with Shadowbane............... and it failed. You can talk all day about features that were promised/never delivered, or the grind or whatever but the bottom line is if you compare it to UO (especially early UO), Darkfall had MUCH more going for it objectively. The problem is when we played these great games ~10 years ago, we didn't have countless forums to go complain about things we didn't like, or complain about balance of a certain skill/class/etc so we just kind of put up with the slight imperfections and ENJOYED THE GAME.

     

    The new generation will NOT be satisfied by any game imo because they don't feel they have to put up with anything they may not like.

    highligthed red: we did: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/51/page/1241 image

    Just kidding somewhat but apart from that we had official forums, which to me already have shown the signs that this genre would turn out as it is today.

     

     

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member
    Originally posted by JeremyBowyer

    I'd like to weigh in if I may. I'm an oldschool UO player and it's something I've thought/talked about extensively.

     

    The PROBLEM with the current MMO scene is both the community's expectations and the lack of balls from developers to put out something with high risk/reward. There's no question that the market is inundated with WoW clones and all-around generic games with nothing new to offer. GW2 is a great example of this. It's hailed as innovative and groundbreaking but at its core there really isn't much different from any other game. It just looks better, the mundane quests you have to do don't show up in any quest log and instead of a pvp arena, they have WvW. 

     

    Unfortunately because of community expectations I don't think a good, creative, harcore, whatever type of game would do well even if somebody did make it. Take Darkfall for example. On paper it's essentially UO mixed with Shadowbane............... and it failed. You can talk all day about features that were promised/never delivered, or the grind or whatever but the bottom line is if you compare it to UO (especially early UO), Darkfall had MUCH more going for it objectively. The problem is when we played these great games ~10 years ago, we didn't have countless forums to go complain about things we didn't like, or complain about balance of a certain skill/class/etc so we just kind of put up with the slight imperfections and ENJOYED THE GAME.

     

    The new generation will NOT be satisfied by any game imo because they don't feel they have to put up with anything they may not like.

    So your saying now we have forums to complain about the game instead of playing it, so every game seems bad?

     

    I would reverse that arguement and say that we have forums because games are bad, trust me we had forums 10 years ago.. I was even a part of one for FFXI, but I was rarely on it.... why? because I spent all of my free time IN THE GAME!

    the reason I'm on the forum now instead of playing a game? because none of them hold my interest, its become more fun to talk/argue about a game, then actually play it. THAT should say something about the state of gaming.

     

    so which came first, the chicken or the egg?

     

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dewm
    Originally posted by JeremyBowyer

    I'd like to weigh in if I may. I'm an oldschool UO player and it's something I've thought/talked about extensively.

     

    The PROBLEM with the current MMO scene is both the community's expectations and the lack of balls from developers to put out something with high risk/reward. There's no question that the market is inundated with WoW clones and all-around generic games with nothing new to offer. GW2 is a great example of this. It's hailed as innovative and groundbreaking but at its core there really isn't much different from any other game. It just looks better, the mundane quests you have to do don't show up in any quest log and instead of a pvp arena, they have WvW. 

     

    Unfortunately because of community expectations I don't think a good, creative, harcore, whatever type of game would do well even if somebody did make it. Take Darkfall for example. On paper it's essentially UO mixed with Shadowbane............... and it failed. You can talk all day about features that were promised/never delivered, or the grind or whatever but the bottom line is if you compare it to UO (especially early UO), Darkfall had MUCH more going for it objectively. The problem is when we played these great games ~10 years ago, we didn't have countless forums to go complain about things we didn't like, or complain about balance of a certain skill/class/etc so we just kind of put up with the slight imperfections and ENJOYED THE GAME.

     

    The new generation will NOT be satisfied by any game imo because they don't feel they have to put up with anything they may not like.

    So your saying now we have forums to complain about the game instead of playing it, so every game seems bad?

     

    I would reverse that arguement and say that we have forums because games are bad, trust me we had forums 10 years ago.. I was even a part of one for FFXI, but I was rarely on it.... why? because I spent all of my free time IN THE GAME!

    the reason I'm on the forum now instead of playing a game? because none of them hold my interest, its become more fun to talk/argue about a game, then actually play it. THAT should say something about the state of gaming.

     

    so which came first, the chicken or the egg?

     

     I wonder if it is a group think mentality.  All we ever read about is how bad game A, B... every game on the market is so everyone starts to believe the games actually are bad.  This would be because itis far easier to comment/read about them now as opposed to 10 years ago and/or there is far more talk about them.

    Personally I think most games today are better than most games 10 years ago.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    Agree with OP and am hoping EQNext (or whatever they decide to finally name it) is to a large degree a reskin of EQ.

    Also want to add how funny it is to me it's always the same 3 people...mostly  (Only 1 of which I've seen post in here...so far) that feel the need to constantly rain on any old school MMO threads parade when they could easily just ignore it and move on. Seems they are on a personal mission to be sure no one gets what they want but them....despite a much larger crowd seeking these than they may think.

    Hey, atleast I don't regard myself as being part of "the PC gaming master race above the common console rabble" and "a true MMOer" BS.

    Yes, I replied to this thread just for you.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • DisdenaDisdena Troy, NYPosts: 1,093Member
    Originally posted by Dewm

    I would reverse that arguement and say that we have forums because games are bad, trust me we had forums 10 years ago.. I was even a part of one for FFXI, but I was rarely on it.... why? because I spent all of my free time IN THE GAME!

    the reason I'm on the forum now instead of playing a game? because none of them hold my interest, its become more fun to talk/argue about a game, then actually play it. THAT should say something about the state of gaming.

     

    What THAT says about the state of gaming is that people are less content with the games... because they have higher expectations now. I don't know how you can say it's because games are just objectively worse now, especially when nearly every single one of those games is still running but has almost no players.

    image
  • PhelcherPhelcher Boston, MAPosts: 1,053Member
    Do you even have a home PC, or did ur mommy just throw a consol at ur feet and let you grow up. Most consol kiddies are like that, because their computers are 6 years old and have a 21" screen. Id boast about my xbox too, if my PC was inadaquate.

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member
    Originally posted by Disdena
    Originally posted by Dewm

    I would reverse that arguement and say that we have forums because games are bad, trust me we had forums 10 years ago.. I was even a part of one for FFXI, but I was rarely on it.... why? because I spent all of my free time IN THE GAME!

    the reason I'm on the forum now instead of playing a game? because none of them hold my interest, its become more fun to talk/argue about a game, then actually play it. THAT should say something about the state of gaming.

     

    What THAT says about the state of gaming is that people are less content with the games... because they have higher expectations now. I don't know how you can say it's because games are just objectively worse now, especially when nearly every single one of those games is still running but has almost no players.

    Just like my post was my opinion, your post is your opinion. But either way its fun to discuss.

     

    You say that we have higher expectations now... I would ask you how? what features/options do we expect now that are so much more then what we had 10 years ago?

     

     

    And as far as the list of games that are old, but still running with almost no players..

    Not really sure the point you're trying to make here, Yes when the game is 10+ years old it will not have as many players as a game that came out 1 year ago.

    But the fact that it still has players should say something! do you really think in 10 years Rift or SWToR will have 50k+ players 10 years from now?

    ...nope, I doubt they'll still be open.

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • DewmDewm Soldotna, AKPosts: 1,341Member
    Originally posted by Phelcher
    Do you even have a home PC, or did ur mommy just throw a consol at ur feet and let you grow up. Most consol kiddies are like that, because their computers are 6 years old and have a 21" screen. Id boast about my xbox too, if my PC was inadaquate.

     

     

    Uhhhh...did I miss something? where did this PC vs. console argument come from?

    Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dewm
    Originally posted by Disdena
    Originally posted by Dewm

    I would reverse that arguement and say that we have forums because games are bad, trust me we had forums 10 years ago.. I was even a part of one for FFXI, but I was rarely on it.... why? because I spent all of my free time IN THE GAME!

    the reason I'm on the forum now instead of playing a game? because none of them hold my interest, its become more fun to talk/argue about a game, then actually play it. THAT should say something about the state of gaming.

     

    What THAT says about the state of gaming is that people are less content with the games... because they have higher expectations now. I don't know how you can say it's because games are just objectively worse now, especially when nearly every single one of those games is still running but has almost no players.

    Just like my post was my opinion, your post is your opinion. But either way its fun to discuss.

     

    You say that we have higher expectations now... I would ask you how? what features/options do we expect now that are so much more then what we had 10 years ago?

     

     

    And as far as the list of games that are old, but still running with almost no players..

    Not really sure the point you're trying to make here, Yes when the game is 10+ years old it will not have as many players as a game that came out 1 year ago.

    But the fact that it still has players should say something! do you really think in 10 years Rift or SWToR will have 50k+ players 10 years from now?

    ...nope, I doubt they'll still be open.

     Well we don't tolerate bad launches as much as we did in the past.  Bad lag, broken features, clipping... will kill a game faster than any lack of end game content.

    We expect smooth play, decent graphics.  We expect fast, responsive controls, good combat.  Decent crafting, flight, housing would be nice (but probably isn't a widespread expecation), great environmental terrain, lots of customization...

    Just off the top of my head

    edit - yes there are variations within each of those, e.g customization, a 5 choices of heads in one vs , 50 in another.  But if they only give us a couple we scream murder. 

    edit 2 - I'm hard on Ryzom that way, so very little customization of characters or armor (other than stats), egads. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member
    Originally posted by Disdena
    Originally posted by Dewm

    I would reverse that arguement and say that we have forums because games are bad, trust me we had forums 10 years ago.. I was even a part of one for FFXI, but I was rarely on it.... why? because I spent all of my free time IN THE GAME!

    the reason I'm on the forum now instead of playing a game? because none of them hold my interest, its become more fun to talk/argue about a game, then actually play it. THAT should say something about the state of gaming.

     

    especially when nearly every single one of those games is still running but has almost no players.

    I'm only going to comment on this part because it's a clear fallacious argument I see often. Games get stale specially with the rise of new technology. It doesn't matter if it has all the bells and whistles people moan about. There's several factors that apply. One being people like to play the latest and greatest following the flock. Another being, once you have grown tired of a MMO people rarely return. If they did then the oldest MMOs would obviously be competitive in player numbers.

     

    Games have changed but so have the generation of gamers. They don't have the same expectations as the first generation of MMO gamers, because they weren't around then.

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    Agree with OP and am hoping EQNext (or whatever they decide to finally name it) is to a large degree a reskin of EQ.

    Also want to add how funny it is to me it's always the same 3 people...mostly  (Only 1 of which I've seen post in here...so far) that feel the need to constantly rain on any old school MMO threads parade when they could easily just ignore it and move on. Seems they are on a personal mission to be sure no one gets what they want but them....despite a much larger crowd seeking these than they may think.

    Hey, atleast I don't regard myself as being part of "the PC gaming master race above the common console rabble" and "a true MMOer" BS.

    Yes, I replied to this thread just for you.

    LOL!

    Show me in any post I ever added on these forums where I regard myself as such...since you are aiming it directly at me. I haven't. But as is the norm, you make assumption I do, or will find tidbits of posts I put to try and twist it that way.

    I just like what I like, and you like what you like. Difference is, I don't go into every thread about a post-2004 MMORPG to tell why they are terrible and won't work...as I stated above.

    And need I point out yet again I play console games as well, and have since 1982 when I received my first one(Atari 2600). So I play both. The thing with that is, the console genre I have played since then hasn't changed a whole lot  other than obviously the technology, graphics, and sheer choices we have. Where as the MMORPG genre has changed drastically...towards making them the same genre as console gaming. Quick fun meant for casual play. Which personally, I feel they shouldn't be and is WHY they are a different genre.

     

     

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member

    The problem with us old school mmo'ers and rpg'ers is that we had concrete, lore stuffed, in depth games to immerse ourselves in.

     

    What happened?  Companies want to draw larger crowds, generalizing their games to maximize profits.  Gaming was industrialized, surpised?

     

    It is nice to see now, though, with the rise of kickstarter and steam greenlight that a lot of smaller companies and developers are actually given a chance to let their true passion for game design shine.  It's great that there are still people out there in it for the art, and not business.

     

    No, the people that you speak of don't have high expectations, we know what works and what is fun and we have all seen it done before.  It's just sad because all the creativity is diluted with the business aspects of creating a game, it really sucks.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member
    Originally posted by FelixMajor

    The problem with us old school mmo'ers and rpg'ers is that we had concrete, lore stuffed, in depth games to immerse ourselves in.

     

    What happened?  Companies want to draw larger crowds, generalizing their games to maximize profits.  Gaming was industrialized, surpised?

     

    It is nice to see now, though, with the rise of kickstarter and steam greenlight that a lot of smaller companies and developers are actually given a chance to let their true passion for game design shine.  It's great that there are still people out there in it for the art, and not business.

     

    No, the people that you speak of don't have high expectations, we know what works and what is fun and we have all seen it done before.  It's just sad because all the creativity is diluted with the business aspects of creating a game, it really sucks.

    Agree. Why I am watching a few indie games in development now. Sadly though the downside to that is they could end up never coming out, or taking WAY longer than the bigwig companies with lots of suits backing them. But as the saying oges and I believe...good things come to those that wait. =)

2
Sign In or Register to comment.