Group content is awsome and needed in any mmo. However being forced to group in order to progress is just a bad idea.
Look at lotro the main story quests in that game used to include quite a lot of group content, which at launch was fine however a few months later it became a major complaint because people didnt want to HAVE to find a group in order to progress so in the end turbine made the bulk of them soloable.
Forcing people to group just creates a barrier for new players, encouraging grouping helps new players find new friends. How you encourage grouping, now thats the issue
Look at lotro the main story quests in that game used to include quite a lot of group content, which at launch was fine however a few months later it became a major complaint because people didnt want to HAVE to find a group in order to progress so in the end turbine made the bulk of them soloable.
That wasen't the reason at all.
The reason was that new players after 6 months to a year had really a hard time to find groups for the group book quests, most people were at cap and the new players were not that many so Turbine made em soloable.
Look at lotro the main story quests in that game used to include quite a lot of group content, which at launch was fine however a few months later it became a major complaint because people didnt want to HAVE to find a group in order to progress so in the end turbine made the bulk of them soloable.
That wasen't the reason at all.
The reason was that new players after 6 months to a year had really a hard time to find groups for the group book quests, most people were at cap and the new players were not that many so Turbine made em soloable.
Thats pretty much what i said
was fine at launch became a problem a few months down the road
Look at lotro the main story quests in that game used to include quite a lot of group content, which at launch was fine however a few months later it became a major complaint because people didnt want to HAVE to find a group in order to progress so in the end turbine made the bulk of them soloable.
That wasen't the reason at all.
The reason was that new players after 6 months to a year had really a hard time to find groups for the group book quests, most people were at cap and the new players were not that many so Turbine made em soloable.
Thats pretty much what i said
was fine at launch became a problem a few months down the road
Originally posted by kevjards imo the story should be completely soloable..afterall its your story..not someone elses to share with.i hate it when they give you a storyline and force you to group up.plenty of otherstuff in game will be group orientated
I kind of disagree with you here man. We see the single player story in most every MMORPG anymore and that's a shame. I think there really is a place for actual group stories on the large and small scale where you can have your own role in events with everyone else too in the same way we have ensemble casts and stories for TV shows. I think and feel that there really should be more of a place made for group stories in multiplayer online gaming rather than giving up because its hard to design and just going single player. When I am playing a game with other people for fun it doesn't always have to be about me.
thank you for all your responses, i really hope this game is as epic as I hope it will be. Nevertheless, i find that the best mmo's have the best communities. Without the need to group consistently there is no need to interact. I love the way ffxi did it, forced grouping to level, soloable side quests and any miscellaneous farming, camping etc. But by grouping to level up you build helpful friends for later quests and for me, because i can only speak for myself, this os what makes these games enjoyable. There arent a whole lot of story quests, but when you do one they should be difficult and take you on a journey with others. But thats just my feeling, we are all different and one game sadly wont please us all.
I asked on a previous thread, if they made instead of pve and pvp servers; hard and normal servers. Where the servers are identical but on the hard the mobs hp is more so grouping is essential and your exp gain is cut by a decimal place. So everyone can play it the way they want to. Just a thought. What do you guys think?
thank you for all your responses, i really hope this game is as epic as I hope it will be. Nevertheless, i find that the best mmo's have the best communities. Without the need to group consistently there is no need to interact. I love the way ffxi did it, forced grouping to level, soloable side quests and any miscellaneous farming, camping etc. But by grouping to level up you build helpful friends for later quests and for me, because i can only speak for myself, this os what makes these games enjoyable. There arent a whole lot of story quests, but when you do one they should be difficult and take you on a journey with others. But thats just my feeling, we are all different and one game sadly wont please us all.
I asked on a previous thread, if they made instead of pve and pvp servers; hard and normal servers. Where the servers are identical but on the hard the mobs hp is more so grouping is essential and your exp gain is cut by a decimal place. So everyone can play it the way they want to. Just a thought. What do you guys think?
Well, in a way Age of Conan had something similar to that with their challenge mode option for zones. So instead of servers it was just something one could choose when entering each zone. Not sure how many people used it, I know I never did and really never would or will. I'm not a challenge gamer, but I respect that there are, but that's why games like Wizardry online are coming out for people like that.
I too enjoyed FFXI, but I found the necessity for having to group just to level a major hindrance, at least in the post 50 levels when it takes so long just to get one level. I like to solo level and then group for other stuff in my MMOs.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Who cares its only the story, the least important part of an mmo, so unimportant many mmos manage to get by perfectly well by not having one.
Because you either do something well or not at all.
Having no story is a lot less of a turndown than having a bad story.
Personally I think there should be a multiplyer story as well as a solostory (if you must have a solostory, I prefer playing MMOs with others) if a game should have a story. And I think GW2 is right with instancing the solostuff, people soloing can do that by themselves. Watching others solo is about as exciting as watching paint dry...
TESO should have a good story with both single and multiplayer parts (separate or together) or they should just skip the whole thing.
If there is a big solo element of the game thats fine, but they should make the group content extra HARD and obviously have much better rewards so people are attracted to the challenge and reward and actually play it with some degree of social interaction. I hate hate hate playing solo orientated MMO's where there is no need to communicate at all... kills the whole vibe and in my opinion purpose all together. But maybe thats just me...
One of the most co-dependent games I've ever played (SWG) had plenty of content I could solo any time I felt like it. I could fully skill a combat toon without ever running around with others. We also used what were coined as solo groups to pull harder missions that we would then complete solo (more xp).
Your point is?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
thank you for all your responses, i really hope this game is as epic as I hope it will be. Nevertheless, i find that the best mmo's have the best communities. Without the need to group consistently there is no need to interact. I love the way ffxi did it, forced grouping to level, soloable side quests and any miscellaneous farming, camping etc. But by grouping to level up you build helpful friends for later quests and for me, because i can only speak for myself, this os what makes these games enjoyable. There arent a whole lot of story quests, but when you do one they should be difficult and take you on a journey with others. But thats just my feeling, we are all different and one game sadly wont please us all.
I asked on a previous thread, if they made instead of pve and pvp servers; hard and normal servers. Where the servers are identical but on the hard the mobs hp is more so grouping is essential and your exp gain is cut by a decimal place. So everyone can play it the way they want to. Just a thought. What do you guys think?
The biggest problem with forced grouping is...well forced grouping. At some point, parts of the gameworld become less populated due to people out-leveling the zone, or have spent a lot of time there previously and are now bored with that particular area. Which then creates massive gates for folks looking to get into the game at a later date, or even re-roll a new alt.
Communities can be created without having to be forced into it. Let's say a game is mostly soloable, but then has a very robust crafting system, so much so that you couldn't possibly craft everything you want/need by yourself. You then create a community which is based upon economy rather than having to always kill stuff together.
Grouping should always be rewarded, and harder content should be created so groups can have a challenge, but grouping shouldn't ever be a forced mechanic for the entirety of a mmo.
The multiplayer part of MMO doesn't state grouping only, nor does it even imply it. There's a ton of ways to interact with others. Unfortunately, many mmo companies don't exploit that to the fullest extent.
Because there are multiplayer aspects to the game too? Because, strange as it may seem, there is a market for games where you see other people playing, but are not necessarily directly interacting with them.
real people or npcs walking around, whats the difference? No need to interact with them so who cares who is driving that character.
You can't predict real peoples' actions, but you can NPCs.
In a lot of games I would say 100% soloable main quest would be a bad thing, but all this is going to do is hook the RPG players who haven't really gotten into MMO's yet. I say give it a chance, it may be better for the world in general.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
My case is a bit different. I am married and I work till late. So I can't find enough time to look for x many people to do just one quest. And even I find the time to find a group to do a quest or dungeon I may not be online long enough to finish it and I don't want to leave the group in the middle of it.
So in my humble opinion, it's very convenient that it is %100 soloable.
For all you group oriented commenters, you have to take this into consideration. You cant blindly say 'group or die' (as a simple generalization).
I'm in the same boat as Xindaar. I have 3 hours a night. I cant tell you how fustrating it is when I want to do a dungeon and I have to wait or search for players to play with. Its lost game time. Its more efficient to use a LFG finder.
I also find it admirable that at least Xindaar (myself included) *care* about the other random people we play with as not to mess them up.
I dont see any other way to smooth this out other than allowing the content to be soloable. It doesnt mean solo ONLY but OPTION to solo.
i agree with OP. plenty of soloable games out already. ffxi was the best mmo for me because it was hard to achieve objectives without a good group. felt more rewarding and acievements meant more because not everyone could have the best shit.
i hope one day someone has the balls to make a tough game where adventure and levelling is the main focus and end game isnt the be all end all.
i agree with OP. plenty of soloable games out already. ffxi was the best mmo for me because it was hard to achieve objectives without a good group. felt more rewarding and acievements meant more because not everyone could have the best shit.
i hope one day someone has the balls to make a tough game where adventure and levelling is the main focus and end game isnt the be all end all.
I like main story being 100% solo in an mmo, if an mmo has a story a good story you want to read and emerse yourself in that is not easily possible in groups, how many groups do you know who will let you wander around in a quest soaking up the atmosphere or roleplay ?
Play a single player game then
Well that is the standard reply sadly I have played multiplayer games since the 80's with the old bbs games, grouping had not even been invented in these games back then but we still played together chatting through talk while hitting the v key to kill a thing.
When I play an mmo it is to be social and yes I sometimes group but I do not need a game mechanic like "forced grouping" to cause me to group,
A single player game does not have the interaction in town and maybe making new friends that an mmo has.
I was brought up on films and fantasy where the lone hero saved the day, yes other people were around but usually you had one main guy and sidekicks, I love the challenge of going out alone and adventuring in an mmo and then talking to my friends back at town about my escapades.
i agree with OP. plenty of soloable games out already. ffxi was the best mmo for me because it was hard to achieve objectives without a good group. felt more rewarding and acievements meant more because not everyone could have the best shit.
i hope one day someone has the balls to make a tough game where adventure and levelling is the main focus and end game isnt the be all end all.
I like main story being 100% solo in an mmo, if an mmo has a story a good story you want to read and emerse yourself in that is not easily possible in groups, how many groups do you know who will let you wander around in a quest soaking up the atmosphere or roleplay ?
Play a single player game then
Well that is the standard reply sadly I have played multiplayer games since the 80's with the old bbs games, grouping had not even been invented in these games back then but we still played together chatting through talk while hitting the v key to kill a thing.
When I play an mmo it is to be social and yes I sometimes group but I do not need a game mechanic like "forced grouping" to cause me to group,
A single player game does not have the interaction in town and maybe making new friends that an mmo has.
I was brought up on films and fantasy where the lone hero saved the day, yes other people were around but usually you had one main guy and sidekicks, I love the challenge of going out alone and adventuring in an mmo and then talking to my friends back at town about my escapades.
It always irked me how in GW2 you followed your story soloing every which way and then all of a sudden at the very end "ohhh, yeah NOW at the very end will you be required to do a dungeon to finish your story." I mean come on.... you never once required a grp for your story except at the very end? I agree it's not hard to find a grp to finish it up but it was a hassle when you wanting to finish your story and then require a grp.
So back to topic, storylines I feel should be soloable or at least make dungeon story lines seperate like the guild characters that are trying to unite in GW2. Except at the very end they were seperate from your main story. People like a good story to follow so it shouldn't be a forced group thing, unless of course the forced group story was a standalone story in itself.
i agree with OP. plenty of soloable games out already. ffxi was the best mmo for me because it was hard to achieve objectives without a good group. felt more rewarding and acievements meant more because not everyone could have the best shit.
i hope one day someone has the balls to make a tough game where adventure and levelling is the main focus and end game isnt the be all end all.
I like main story being 100% solo in an mmo, if an mmo has a story a good story you want to read and emerse yourself in that is not easily possible in groups, how many groups do you know who will let you wander around in a quest soaking up the atmosphere or roleplay ?
Play a single player game then
Well that is the standard reply sadly I have played multiplayer games since the 80's with the old bbs games, grouping had not even been invented in these games back then but we still played together chatting through talk while hitting the v key to kill a thing.
When I play an mmo it is to be social and yes I sometimes group but I do not need a game mechanic like "forced grouping" to cause me to group,
A single player game does not have the interaction in town and maybe making new friends that an mmo has.
I was brought up on films and fantasy where the lone hero saved the day, yes other people were around but usually you had one main guy and sidekicks, I love the challenge of going out alone and adventuring in an mmo and then talking to my friends back at town about my escapades.
Single player games do not give that.
wait... your telling me to play a single player game because i want to group up but you want to play an mmo because you want to solo.
Originally posted by kevjards imo the story should be completely soloable..afterall its your story..not someone elses to share with.i hate it when they give you a storyline and force you to group up.plenty of otherstuff in game will be group orientated
I kind of disagree with you here man. We see the single player story in most every MMORPG anymore and that's a shame. I think there really is a place for actual group stories on the large and small scale where you can have your own role in events with everyone else too in the same way we have ensemble casts and stories for TV shows. I think and feel that there really should be more of a place made for group stories in multiplayer online gaming rather than giving up because its hard to design and just going single player. When I am playing a game with other people for fun it doesn't always have to be about me.
oh i totally agree..but the main story of a game is what keeps most people playing.but they wont keep playing if they cannot find grps if they are late to the game..and that has to be taken into consideration.also even though its an mmo a lot of people prefer to play solo..i,m not one of them but there are a few that do.so with that in mind they have to make a balance.
Grouping i like not because i need help in most cases, but because its a good way to see other classes skills, interact, be social, make friends, a good way to see if they are guild material. Also it helps people tone their skills to help people in group activities such as raids, pvp stuff, etc.
Grouping isnt required, just feels something is missing when you are alone running as fast as you can thru quests.
Sometimes it doesnt work well, sometimes you get people that dont know their role, and sometimes its just faster to go solo. But still, I would rather group up and adventure it kind of reminds me of older games and D&D settings.
I do both, sometimes though i just want my alone time to take it easy and explore.
The funny thing about games with choices, is that you can usually find other like minded individuals to run around with you. Limit the choices and you limit the player base. Not a good thing when it's a business first, entertainment second. Those who depend on game mechanics to do the group finding for them are the ones who need to work on their interpersonal skills.
Comments
Probably because being able to solo to the max level is the expected standard in AAA MMOs.
Group content is awsome and needed in any mmo. However being forced to group in order to progress is just a bad idea.
Look at lotro the main story quests in that game used to include quite a lot of group content, which at launch was fine however a few months later it became a major complaint because people didnt want to HAVE to find a group in order to progress so in the end turbine made the bulk of them soloable.
Forcing people to group just creates a barrier for new players, encouraging grouping helps new players find new friends. How you encourage grouping, now thats the issue
That wasen't the reason at all.
The reason was that new players after 6 months to a year had really a hard time to find groups for the group book quests, most people were at cap and the new players were not that many so Turbine made em soloable.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Thats pretty much what i said
was fine at launch became a problem a few months down the road
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I kind of disagree with you here man. We see the single player story in most every MMORPG anymore and that's a shame. I think there really is a place for actual group stories on the large and small scale where you can have your own role in events with everyone else too in the same way we have ensemble casts and stories for TV shows. I think and feel that there really should be more of a place made for group stories in multiplayer online gaming rather than giving up because its hard to design and just going single player. When I am playing a game with other people for fun it doesn't always have to be about me.
Being able to solo is fine, that's hardly the problem with the "main story".
They said it's a SINGLE PLAYER story line, and the only context of SINGLE PLAYER I'm aware of is, you do it alone.
Firor said in a video some time ago, that the "personal" story was a single player story line that you'll do alone.
That's bad.
thank you for all your responses, i really hope this game is as epic as I hope it will be. Nevertheless, i find that the best mmo's have the best communities. Without the need to group consistently there is no need to interact. I love the way ffxi did it, forced grouping to level, soloable side quests and any miscellaneous farming, camping etc. But by grouping to level up you build helpful friends for later quests and for me, because i can only speak for myself, this os what makes these games enjoyable. There arent a whole lot of story quests, but when you do one they should be difficult and take you on a journey with others. But thats just my feeling, we are all different and one game sadly wont please us all.
I asked on a previous thread, if they made instead of pve and pvp servers; hard and normal servers. Where the servers are identical but on the hard the mobs hp is more so grouping is essential and your exp gain is cut by a decimal place. So everyone can play it the way they want to. Just a thought. What do you guys think?
Well, in a way Age of Conan had something similar to that with their challenge mode option for zones. So instead of servers it was just something one could choose when entering each zone. Not sure how many people used it, I know I never did and really never would or will. I'm not a challenge gamer, but I respect that there are, but that's why games like Wizardry online are coming out for people like that.
I too enjoyed FFXI, but I found the necessity for having to group just to level a major hindrance, at least in the post 50 levels when it takes so long just to get one level. I like to solo level and then group for other stuff in my MMOs.
My question is this, if leveling and story quests are soloable why not just make another single player game?
Becuse there are alot of mmorpg players that dont like forced elements as guilds, raids, and grp instents.
But like to play with others when they have the time and the feeling for it.
Because you either do something well or not at all.
Having no story is a lot less of a turndown than having a bad story.
Personally I think there should be a multiplyer story as well as a solostory (if you must have a solostory, I prefer playing MMOs with others) if a game should have a story. And I think GW2 is right with instancing the solostuff, people soloing can do that by themselves. Watching others solo is about as exciting as watching paint dry...
TESO should have a good story with both single and multiplayer parts (separate or together) or they should just skip the whole thing.
One of the most co-dependent games I've ever played (SWG) had plenty of content I could solo any time I felt like it. I could fully skill a combat toon without ever running around with others. We also used what were coined as solo groups to pull harder missions that we would then complete solo (more xp).
Your point is?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The biggest problem with forced grouping is...well forced grouping. At some point, parts of the gameworld become less populated due to people out-leveling the zone, or have spent a lot of time there previously and are now bored with that particular area. Which then creates massive gates for folks looking to get into the game at a later date, or even re-roll a new alt.
Communities can be created without having to be forced into it. Let's say a game is mostly soloable, but then has a very robust crafting system, so much so that you couldn't possibly craft everything you want/need by yourself. You then create a community which is based upon economy rather than having to always kill stuff together.
Grouping should always be rewarded, and harder content should be created so groups can have a challenge, but grouping shouldn't ever be a forced mechanic for the entirety of a mmo.
The multiplayer part of MMO doesn't state grouping only, nor does it even imply it. There's a ton of ways to interact with others. Unfortunately, many mmo companies don't exploit that to the fullest extent.
You can't predict real peoples' actions, but you can NPCs.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
For all you group oriented commenters, you have to take this into consideration. You cant blindly say 'group or die' (as a simple generalization).
I'm in the same boat as Xindaar. I have 3 hours a night. I cant tell you how fustrating it is when I want to do a dungeon and I have to wait or search for players to play with. Its lost game time. Its more efficient to use a LFG finder.
I also find it admirable that at least Xindaar (myself included) *care* about the other random people we play with as not to mess them up.
I dont see any other way to smooth this out other than allowing the content to be soloable. It doesnt mean solo ONLY but OPTION to solo.
i agree with OP. plenty of soloable games out already. ffxi was the best mmo for me because it was hard to achieve objectives without a good group. felt more rewarding and acievements meant more because not everyone could have the best shit.
i hope one day someone has the balls to make a tough game where adventure and levelling is the main focus and end game isnt the be all end all.
I like main story being 100% solo in an mmo, if an mmo has a story a good story you want to read and emerse yourself in that is not easily possible in groups, how many groups do you know who will let you wander around in a quest soaking up the atmosphere or roleplay ?
Play a single player game then
Well that is the standard reply sadly I have played multiplayer games since the 80's with the old bbs games, grouping had not even been invented in these games back then but we still played together chatting through talk while hitting the v key to kill a thing.
When I play an mmo it is to be social and yes I sometimes group but I do not need a game mechanic like "forced grouping" to cause me to group,
A single player game does not have the interaction in town and maybe making new friends that an mmo has.
I was brought up on films and fantasy where the lone hero saved the day, yes other people were around but usually you had one main guy and sidekicks, I love the challenge of going out alone and adventuring in an mmo and then talking to my friends back at town about my escapades.
Single player games do not give that.
+1
No problem with the storyline being soloable, aslong as the rest is designed for groups.
It always irked me how in GW2 you followed your story soloing every which way and then all of a sudden at the very end "ohhh, yeah NOW at the very end will you be required to do a dungeon to finish your story." I mean come on.... you never once required a grp for your story except at the very end? I agree it's not hard to find a grp to finish it up but it was a hassle when you wanting to finish your story and then require a grp.
So back to topic, storylines I feel should be soloable or at least make dungeon story lines seperate like the guild characters that are trying to unite in GW2. Except at the very end they were seperate from your main story. People like a good story to follow so it shouldn't be a forced group thing, unless of course the forced group story was a standalone story in itself.
wait... your telling me to play a single player game because i want to group up but you want to play an mmo because you want to solo.
your talking in reverse lol
oh i totally agree..but the main story of a game is what keeps most people playing.but they wont keep playing if they cannot find grps if they are late to the game..and that has to be taken into consideration.also even though its an mmo a lot of people prefer to play solo..i,m not one of them but there are a few that do.so with that in mind they have to make a balance.
The funny thing about games with choices, is that you can usually find other like minded individuals to run around with you. Limit the choices and you limit the player base. Not a good thing when it's a business first, entertainment second. Those who depend on game mechanics to do the group finding for them are the ones who need to work on their interpersonal skills.