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suuuuure, ban videogames and weapons to prevent violence!
ban cars to prevent accidents!
ban spoons to prevent fat people!
Better watch Alex Jones videos on youtube and get informed about the new world order.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret Worldhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s.
.The Return of ELITE !
Originally posted by Terranah Hitler, Stalin and Mao never played video games as children, yet they collectively killed over a hundred million people.
And the first thing they did was collecting all the guns before they commited democide on the population.
Yeah I see a game ban coming soon. Better stocking up some FPS games before the prohibition comes...
What a pointless thread. Neither side is going to change their views. There is no consensus possible.
Just a massive waste of valuable internet ink.
Originally posted by NorseGod Originally posted by mythran7 Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by mythran7 Conservative Reasoning 101: Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. True, but does that mean we should allow average citizens to make Nuclear weapons? How about Chemical weapons? There is always going to be human beings that want to harm others, SHOULD WE MAKE IT IT EASY FOR THEM TO DO??? Or hard...hmmm Personal responsibility doesn’t take away from collective responsibility. We protect people from all sorts of stuff in civilized society, this conservative argument is not only weak, but infantile. Wake up, and use your brain.
And the purpose of gun ownership is to allow people to protect themselves, whether that attacker is a random thug or government. From your profile, it appears you are Canadian, so I don't expect you to understand the reasons for gun ownership in America or America's gun culture. However, to say that quote above is attributed to conservatives only is false, especially in a thread where most people agree the solution is identifying and fixing the problems in society that cause people to commit violent crimes, and I seriously doubt this is a heavily conservative crowd.
The collective responsibility is to get help for the people that need it. The collective responsibility is to make sure that a person doesn't reach the point of committing such atrocities. Don't blame the thermometer for the temperature.
A gun is not a thermometer. False anology. The purpose of a gun is to kill people. It has no other purpose except for hunting.
Where I am from, and who I am, makes 0 diffrence to my argument. Ad hom's are the tactic of someone who knows their argument has lost, or they are simply ignorant of basic logic. Two options, which is it?
So the question remains: Do you want to make it easier or harder for people to kill others?
So which is it?
A firearm is a tool, like a spoon. Leave it on a table, it does nothing until someone picks it up.
Should boxcutters be banned or did they do the right thing by going after the bad guys?
Exactly. It's a tool.
Likewise, if a kid takes the hedge clippers and assaults someone with them, you don't look for ways to restrict and regulate hedge clippers. You find out why the person reached such a point and why their issue wasn't identified beforehand. If it was identified, then find out why nothing was done about it. If their issue was identified or known prior to the act, then you hold accountable the peopel that let him have access to the hedge clippers.
You don't see that even in your own post you started shifting the definition around? Also, if you took anything I wrote as an ad hominem or insult, then I ask that you re-read it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by ShakyMo Norsegod Talking out your arse there. UK is 4th most violent country in the world and usa 23rd - BULLSHIT America has by far a higher murder rate than the UK. Including per capita. Now if you were talking about assault or something, yeah I could believe UK is higher than usa with that, but not murder. Are you seriously saying their are only 3 countries more violent than the UK? I can think of several right off the top of my head e.g. Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, south Africa, Jamaica, usa. Where not even the worst in Europe, Naples has by far a higher murder rate than any British city, up there with places like Detroit & Washington.
You're probably looking at raw numbers. When you look at per capita numbers, the UK is a rather violent crowd.... one of the msot violent crowds, actually.
I posted a few links earlier in the thread regarding that.
Originally posted by Avengorik Also everyone can buy guns hell even auto-riffles in the US OMG!!!! and after when a tragedy happens the president himself almost cry and say that the US need to find a solution???? I always feel bad when I see kids or people get killed by a psyco BUT geez before blaming video games LOOK at all the REAL weapons that THEY allow their own people to buy...
Automatic weapons are illegal to own in America.
Originally posted by mythran7 Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by mythran7 Conservative Reasoning 101: Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. True, but does that mean we should allow average citizens to make Nuclear weapons? How about Chemical weapons? There is always going to be human beings that want to harm others, SHOULD WE MAKE IT IT EASY FOR THEM TO DO??? Or hard...hmmm Personal responsibility doesn’t take away from collective responsibility. We protect people from all sorts of stuff in civilized society, this conservative argument is not only weak, but infantile. Wake up, and use your brain.
whether it be a gun, kitchen knife, car, or whatever. Human beings will find a way to kill one another, its in our nature.
Do you really think criminals actually go into a store to buy guns?
So the question remains : Can human beings stop killing each other?
"Bullet" - by Archive
My 2 cents:
I do not care what politiacl side you are on with this argument. I do care that liberity is being taken in an attempt to "safen" up our society.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Politians on both the right and the left, feel the need to distort the information to fit their needs.
As a society we need to stand up for our liberity and take responsibility for our actions, Americans, Brits, Germans, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Asians....yadda yadda yadda. All of us. Stop pumping our kids full of gnarley anti-depressants and stimulants, start letting them get skinned knees at the park.
The problem is standing alone and taking responsibility for ones actions is scary, and currently our society is full of lilly-livered scardy-cats.
I look at it like this...
Take 2 people, 1 normal the other a psycho. If they both play the same game and the psycho goes out and kills people is it the games fault or the psycho?
Do people kill other people without ever playing a game?
Do people who play games all day All kill people in real life?
Basically each situation is different, each scenario is different. The only similarity here is that some crazy person went over the edge. Mormal people do not go over the edge, the problem already exists in the person before anything or anyone can push them.
It is like saying a person was hit by a car and killed, the car was red, so all red cars are killers....
Originally posted by Ryowulf Originally posted by vandal5627 You can't really blame the games entirely but you can't really deny that they do play a small roll in which it effects the minds of the persons that play them.
Of course I can deny your statement, because what you are saying is based on your own opinion rather than any evidence.
Its not like this blame game is new. In the 1930's in was "dime novels are corrupting are youth!" More recently there has been things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazes_and_Monsters
Let me give my own unsupported opinion and say given the number of people who play video games compaired to the number of mass shootings, I'd have to come to the conclusion that video games don't play a role. If they did and given how easy it is to get ahold of a gun, we'd have a heck of a lot more mass killings.
Dude, there are many studies on this that shows that violence in media affects the minds of kids in a negative way. Just because it doesnt affect you doesnt mean it won't affect other people in a small way. Did I say it's completely the games fault? I Just said it does affect them in a small way and that's a fact.
Originally posted by allendale5 I checked the movie line-up last night for something to watch. I have lots of channels, all the HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Stars etc etc. Nearly every movie was about killing. Being killed, doing the killing, investigating the killing, revenge by killing those who killed, kill kill kill kill. Also, if you check the t.v. ratings for the last .. oh, say ten years.. you'll find that most of the top shows have killing as their central theme. CSI.. etc. Or, just open any history book. Or for that matter, take a gander at the true history of any religion. As humans, we are totally enthrawled and mesmerized by death. It has always been that way and it always will be. It consumes us and pervades nearly everything we watch. Do you see any channels reporting on good news? No, it's death and violence. It's a true cop-out to blame video games, since they are the natural offshoot of other media -- media and entertainment btw that is in extremely high demand.
I agree and the without going into ban land all I will say is that Hollywood supports one political party over the others. You can guess which one.
How about a march against stupidity and hypocrisy?
Q: Why did you kill all of those people?
A: Game X told me it would be ok to kill them.
The objective and true answer: Because I am a fucked up individual and I need help.
So by that count I should be allowed to have nukes, tanks, rockets, biological weapons at home? Ya know, just in case someone invades, preparedness is half the battle. It's harmless!
Simple fact is, having guns around increases the chance someone will use it. Simple. 0 guns, noone can use it, except if they go to extra troubles and cost to get it, which I'd say would eliminate the impulse shootings (waa, angry, o look a gun, lets pew someone). 10.000.000 guns, well... just check the US statistics in shootings and killings and compare it to other developed countries.
I would agree that the guns are not the cause, they are a tool that is widely available and simple to use in the society that the US has become. No time for parenting, pressure for economic and academic sucess, unemployment, peer pressure, disregard for fellow man, rampant materialism, beauty focus...etc etc. Not saying this is happening only in US mind you. I'm seeing it in my country also...in past 20 years we went from "yeh I know my neighbours and love hanging with them, doing stuff together" to "need more money to have more stuff than the other guy", the low income ppl are harldy getting through the month thus not putting enough time in to childrens education, rich kids feel entitled to be above the rest (stuff I see kids do nowadays in shool would never ever be tolerated in the past, or how they behave in public places)... so on and so forth.
tldr: it's the fault of the society as a whole and parenting imo, not guns. But having no guns would definetly lower murder rates and killing sprees.
Originally posted by Terranah There's been many studies regarding violent video games relative to gun violence, and no link has been established. I have killed many npc's and players over the years. If I was going to guess, I'd say the number's are up in the 1 million range. Yet I never murdered anyone. In fact, I've saved quite a few lives over the years. Just gave cpr to someone who coded last week and she lived, so chalk another +1 in the save category. Hitler, Stalin and Mao never played video games as children, yet they collectively killed over a hundred million people. There is a greater link between mental illness and mass killing, but no one wants to have that conversation because it doesn't fit with the politics of the day.
Exactly. Better to do something with a emotional "feel good" focus, than deal with a complex (and potentially expensive) issue like mental illness. This way the Usual Suspects in the mass media and their political masters can grandstand for the thoughtless and gullible, produce a lot of sound bites, and then move on to the next fluff headed topic.
Dealing with violence on all levels would require a critical examination of not just individuals, but the culture and the political system as well. Thats VERY unlikely to happen.
Wow, popular topic.
“It seems that blaming games isn't enough; some places are starting to take action against them. I do believe that kids should play games that are deemed appropriate for their age level, but that involves parents being educated, not video games and movies taking the fall for pieces of entertainment that were never deemed suitable for children in the first place.”
I agree, mostly… I feel you’ve left out a third part to this, however. Video game developers, I believe, should take some personal responsibility in the development of their games. After all, what’s the point in having all the blood and gore associated with these games? Alfred Hitchcock said it best about using even fake blood in a scene; the preponderance of the violent act should be enough in a scene, making the blood unnecessary.
“By the logic that these people are using, I should be a violent person as well... but I am not. Even now, I like PvP in my games. I like killing things in games. Yet, I will admit that I am someone that couldn't even hurt a fly. I cry every time I see Old Yeller or Gladiator. I find that words are often exchanged for violence, but words are usually more effective than violence will ever be. I was taught to use my words wisely, not use my fists to bully others. I was taught to think of other's emotions and to think of how it will impact my future, not to just think of the here and now.”
The violent acts we see are not based on a single thing; there is no single trigger that makes this happen, it’s always a result of a buildup from multiple sources: video games, violent music, violent television and movies, personality or mood-enhancing prescription and/or non-prescription drugs, how an individual is raised, what they’re told about their self-worth from family, peers, and society in general, how they’re treated in school by teachers and students, alike, etc. Eventually, all of this CAN pile on enough to cause an individual to snap. However, since we’re taught we’re monkey’s from the beginning of school, these days, we feel like it’s permissible to act in that manner, like our perception of how monkey’s act. So, Americans being the simple creatures we are, we tend to desire to choose ONE item to focus on, in the case of post-Sandy Hook, two, instead of focusing on and taking personal responsibility for all of the problems we have in our society.
As soon as we begin taking personal responsibility –among each of the following appropriate social sectors- for our children, for the games as they’re being produced, for the violence in movies and on television, for appropriately teaching about gun control and the fact that crime and violence are improper means of resolving issues, and that taking drugs to resolve our anxiety’s actually worsens those anxiety’s and other appropriate issues, perhaps we can begin straightening things out.
Originally posted by ShakyMo No lok I'm looking at per capita The UK has one of the lowest murder rates in the world at 1.2 per 100,000 on a par with places like Germany, Australia and Japan.
I don't know why you are saying 'no lok' as I never said that was false. You said
"Talking out your arse there.UK is 4th most violent country in the world and usa 23rd - BULLSHIT"
So I linked to the data that shows the stats for violent crimes. The UK is most certainly 2-4 times worse than the US by any measure.
Originally posted by Muppetier What a pointless thread. Neither side is going to change their views. There is no consensus possible. Just a massive waste of valuable internet ink.
Open minds are not plentify around here on any topic. Sometimes a discussion is more about catharsis than consensus.
video games play the smallest of roles in a person becoming a homicidal maniac. honestly you are typically born with the disorder that leads to you harm others its not really something you can pick up playing a game, sure the game may very wall help in "developing" that mental issue... i just dont see playing wolfenstine 3d as a kid or insurmountable number of violate games going to be the leading cause of my going on a rampage with a knife or gun or floppy head dildo.. (sorry playing way too much saints row 3 right now lol)
while i dont dismiss the possibly of a violent game helping lead a person to go on a rampage, but given that most/all of the mass murders that are well known had very limited to no access to games of any sort i dont really see it being the cause.
thats like blaming car accidents on racing games like need for speed. neither are even remotely connectable apart from being cars and driving.
this just by the by screams bandaid/bandwagon against games to push someones voters or agenda. like the old sopa bill, this is just someone who hates X game type pushing to get that game type banned to forward their personal choice/ideals.
will banning all video games from the planet stop mass murder/rape/robbery/ect..... not bleeding likely... will people still push it and think it will... yup because society is majority run by sheep and idiots.
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Originally posted by vandal5627 You can't really blame the games entirely but you can't really deny that they do play a small roll in which it effects the minds of the persons that play them.
The typical response to that is usually babble about how the responder has been playing video games for years and never felt the urge to kill anyone.
It's not that repeated scenes of violence make the subject violent, but that it desensitizes the subject to the gravity or impact of violence and violent acts. In the worst cases, it makes one more accepting of violence, but for the msot part it simply makes one less bothered by it, more apathetic toward it.
When dealing with a disturbed or maladjusted minor, one that does not really understand the consequence of actions and has other factors in their life making them a ticking timebomb, desensitizion to violence makes that door easier to open.
Vandal's statement wasn't that video games make people violent. His statement was factually correct.