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Space combat- a failure?

I would like to hear what you think about swtor space combat as it is now. When I played star wars galaxies it was one of the greatest combat system in a mmo. Now they swtor´s slight different, but they still keep some parts like upgrading the ship.

Question is why have they not kept the SWG space battle system. It would be the greatest! With pvp and spaceship controll. As it is now, I find it dull to play space missions and rather avoid it. Even for the good xp. For now the ship moves by it self and you only have to aim. Well some say it is relaxing to do something else and take a break from the mmo, but common. That idea from SWG was brilliant and worked well. I spent days only playing space combat in that game the old days and have to say even with the older graphic, it still was the best gameplay. A bit shame they brought this instead and make it look like a "mario" game instead. Could have been so much better and with their experience, almost a dissappointment. Looked really forward to it. But the good thingd about it, is the mini game is actionpaced and fast. Nothing more.

So how do you think about it. How would the perfect space game for star wars look like for you ?

 

 

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Comments

  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon

    They are working on space project, but it's far away from now and we don't have any details about it. I treat the sapce missions as a side game only. It is worth to comment though that SWG did not have space combat at all until first expansion which came 1.5 year later. 

    And not sure how BW could have SoE space combat :)

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  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    SWTOR was originally designed to be a WoW clone, and a direct competetor to sci-fi games (with a WoW flavor).  WoW didn't have space combat, so neither does SWTOR.

     

    EA is slowly trying to distance themselves (perhaps after seeing their blunder).  Stuff like removing resilience on PVP gear goes a long way (They are yet to implement this though).  Now they have hetero+gay romance (users choice).  That goes a long way.

     

    I don't know what happens in board rooms, but EA is either trying to figure out how to make this game last, or how to make it die quick (so they get out of the Lucas contract).

     

    As for the freeroam space project, I really doubt their current engine could handle much of anything.  A new engine would need to be introduced (like EQ did).  EQ1 had 2 game engines running, depending on what you were doing.

     

    As to EA coming up with great ideas for how to implement this, I'm on the fence, because EA is not a very innovative company.  Many great companies have gone to EA to die (Essentially EA buy's them and the awesome company they bought is no more). [cough .. BioWare is only latest company bought by EA]

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • pioneer08pioneer08 iowa, IAPosts: 76Member
    They are working on new space combat just like they are working on their expansion just like they are working on the eldergame for '13 just like they are working on pvp. The game has been out a year and some expect everything to be out now...well thats not how mmos work. , There will always be those who say Swtor can't do this cant do that their engine isnt good enough blah blah blah. The game started out rocky yes it did. They have done a good job to fix the issued and make it a very good mmo hence the very heavy and full servers.
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Tonight's Top Ten list comes to you from the home office in Austin Texas. It's the

    TOP TEN REASONS FOR SWTOR SPACE GAME

    #10. Starfox Fans letter writing campaign too big to ignore.

    #9. Cool 1980s era Movie Frame Camera panning is "Wave of the Future in gaming"

    #8. Budget for Space Game blown on staff Karaoke nights at the TGI Fridays.

    #7. Drives containing the original space game for SWTOR stolen from apartment building under suspicious circumstances.

    #6. Testers found Space Game takes your mind off the pain of hitting an empty endgame at level 50.

    #5. EA

    #4. Space Game hastily thrown in after "Jawa Crawler Races" failed to pass QA.

    #3. Some testers experienced pleasant halucinations while playing the space game while also listening to trance music and taking drugs.

    #2. George saw the space game and stamped it with his little stamp he carries around. You don't go against the stamp.

     

    and the #1 reason for SWTOR Space Game .....

    #1. Dallas Dickenson, once bullied as a child by Raph Koster, vows to kill Star Wars MMOs for good!

     

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Karteli

    As to EA coming up with great ideas for how to implement this, I'm on the fence, because EA is not a very innovative company.  Many great companies have gone to EA to die (Essentially EA buy's them and the awesome company they bought is no more). [cough .. BioWare is only latest company bought by EA]

    I loved this game and really hoped it would grow into something amazing but my recent dealings with EA has lead me to shun this title.  No company should treat their customers the way that they do.  If I had been in a store and was given the same customer service by a real life sale representative I would have punched him in the face and happily gone to jail.

    This game should have never been a traditional MMO.  Space combat / free flight, roleplaying elements, advanced crafting system, mini-games should have been included from launch.   Instead of pleasing KOTOR, SWG and general SW fans they sacrificed the integrity of their product to lure in MMO purist.  These players can not be satisfied by giving them the same things they expect but rather giving them something they didn't know they wanted.

    SWTOR is a nerd posing as a jock and people can tell it's fake.  I do not wish well for this product even though it still hurts me to say it.  I will be happy when Disney decides to make a real online game for us to play.

    R.I.P Bioware, you will be missed.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by pioneer08
    They are working on new space combat just like they are working on their expansion just like they are working on the eldergame for '13 just like they are working on pvp. The game has been out a year and some expect everything to be out now...well thats not how mmos work. , There will always be those who say Swtor can't do this cant do that their engine isnt good enough blah blah blah. The game started out rocky yes it did. They have done a good job to fix the issued and make it a very good mmo hence the very heavy and full servers.

    Well they might be and, they might not be.  Do you know?

     

    In red

    The SWTOR engine is garbage.  It can't handle multiplayer on-screen at once.  It simply can't

     

    It can do less than 16 players decent .. like with Operations (Raids) or PVP Warzones (8 vs 8).  Get more than 16 players on-screen at once and SWTOR turns to a slide show.   More than 40 will crash the game (on my computer).  WoW handles 200+ with lag (albeit) but it doesn't crash.  Also Alterac Valley in WoW is 40 Vs 40 which doesn't lag AT ALL, and gives full frames-per-second. .. something the SWTOR engine could only dream of.

     

    If you want to feed everyone a bunch of fluff, cool .. but lie about the game engine and I will take issue.  It sucks.  Game is good though, shitty engine.

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • pioneer08pioneer08 iowa, IAPosts: 76Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    Originally posted by pioneer08
    They are working on new space combat just like they are working on their expansion just like they are working on the eldergame for '13 just like they are working on pvp. The game has been out a year and some expect everything to be out now...well thats not how mmos work. , There will always be those who say Swtor can't do this cant do that their engine isnt good enough blah blah blah. The game started out rocky yes it did. They have done a good job to fix the issued and make it a very good mmo hence the very heavy and full servers.

    Well they might be and, they might not be.  Do you know?

     

    In red

    The SWTOR engine is garbage.  It can't handle multiplayer on-screen at once.  It simply can't

     

    It can do less than 16 players decent .. like with Operations (Raids) or PVP Warzones (8 vs 8).  Get more than 16 players on-screen at once and SWTOR turns to a slide show.   More than 40 will crash the game (on my computer).

     

    If you want to feed everyone a bunch of fluff, cool .. but lie about the game engine and I will take issue.  It sucks.  Game is good though, shitty engine.

     

    Talking about putting 40 characters on a screen at once is different then changing their space combat. If we were talking about open world pvp maybe i would agree but we were not we were talking about a revamped space combat and if they are working on it then their engine can handle it.
  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by pioneer08
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by pioneer08
    They are working on new space combat just like they are working on their expansion just like they are working on the eldergame for '13 just like they are working on pvp. The game has been out a year and some expect everything to be out now...well thats not how mmos work. , There will always be those who say Swtor can't do this cant do that their engine isnt good enough blah blah blah. The game started out rocky yes it did. They have done a good job to fix the issued and make it a very good mmo hence the very heavy and full servers.

    Well they might be and, they might not be.  Do you know?

     

    In red

    The SWTOR engine is garbage.  It can't handle multiplayer on-screen at once.  It simply can't

     

    It can do less than 16 players decent .. like with Operations (Raids) or PVP Warzones (8 vs 8).  Get more than 16 players on-screen at once and SWTOR turns to a slide show.   More than 40 will crash the game (on my computer).

     

    If you want to feed everyone a bunch of fluff, cool .. but lie about the game engine and I will take issue.  It sucks.  Game is good though, shitty engine.

     

    Talking about putting 40 characters on a screen at once is different then changing their space combat. If we were talking about open world pvp maybe i would agree but we were not we were talking about a revamped space combat and if they are working on it then their engine can handle it.

    So, in your opinion, open Freeroam Space means less than 16 characters on screen at once?  What if more than 16 show up?

     

    It still doesn't feel massively, even with 16 people.  If the game lags with 200 people, that is understandable .. but 17+?

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I loved this game and really hoped it would grow into something amazing but my recent dealings with EA has lead me to shun this title.  No company should treat their customers the way that they do.  If I had been in a store and was given the same customer service by a real life sale representative I would have punched him in the face and happily gone to jail.

     How EA treats their customer is not good in terms of a big company (because normally you expect big company to be more consumer focused), however to be fair it is also NOT rock bottom like the people who run WWIIOL, MO and WarZ. Now those people ARE truely example of what NOT to do in customer service.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    its a mini game, nothing more.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pioneer08
    Talking about putting 40 characters on a screen at once is different then changing their space combat. If we were talking about open world pvp maybe i would agree but we were not we were talking about a revamped space combat and if they are working on it then their engine can handle it.

     Kartelli is right, the engine IS bad.

     

    For your reference, Planetside 2's own inhouse Forgelight engine have no problems dealing with over several hundred people at once in the same place, Warhammer Online uses the antiquated but proved Gamebryo engine and they also have no problems unless you are going above something like 40 people on each side. Guild War 2 also have no problem with it's own GW engine.

     

    Swtor can't even handle 20 people on each side - that's why Illum failed and had to be shut down.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
    Originally posted by sapphen

    I loved this game and really hoped it would grow into something amazing but my recent dealings with EA has lead me to shun this title.  No company should treat their customers the way that they do.  If I had been in a store and was given the same customer service by a real life sale representative I would have punched him in the face and happily gone to jail.

     How EA treats their customer is not good in terms of a big company (because normally you expect big company to be more consumer focused), however to be fair it is also NOT rock bottom like the people who run WWIIOL, MO and WarZ. Now those people ARE truely example of what NOT to do in customer service.

    I have heard bad things from these companies, which is one reason why I won't touch them, but we as customers should expect more.  Only one other company have I had such a dispute with that I refuse to play any of their products.  My beginnings was in customer service and my manager lived and died by the customer.  I know the world is changing but I miss those days.

    EA is underestimating how much damage their customer support is doing to this game.
  • mithrillionmithrillion NY, NYPosts: 37Member
    At least as a minigame it is much better than FARMING in you-know-which-game-it-is. But yeah, minigames usually suck after a while.
  • NeoCroX997NeoCroX997 hoorPosts: 28Member

    I can see EA/Bio have something going on the "dark" side for some of you, if I understand correctly. Star wars is about space combat a lot as you see in the movies and should´ve been into something more, the most people want.

    If the implant the feature of a 3D space combat with AI system we dream about. How much would it improve the game and its popularity ? Or perhaps it wouldn´t even matter.

    The engine cant handle that many players(in space combat) without overloading. Would it help with a new engine instead that can take the pressure of more players?  Rather a new engine the solution?

     

     

     

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    They are working on space project, but it's far away from now and we don't have any details about it. I treat the sapce missions as a side game only. It is worth to comment though that SWG did not have space combat at all until first expansion which came 1.5 year later. 

    And not sure how BW could have SoE space combat :)

    True but 4 years(?) and 250+ million the key features and mechanics should ahve been sound. Not saying its an excuse, i know their story and voice was the main selling point for some. But this game should have had much much more. I was hoping it to be the mmorpg of the century, but kept trying to find the coin deposite box everytime my ship got blown up image

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by NeoCroX997

    I would like to hear what you think about swtor space combat as it is now. When I played star wars galaxies it was one of the greatest combat system in a mmo. Now they swtor´s slight different, but they still keep some parts like upgrading the ship.

    Question is why have they not kept the SWG space battle system. It would be the greatest! With pvp and spaceship controll. As it is now, I find it dull to play space missions and rather avoid it. Even for the good xp. For now the ship moves by it self and you only have to aim. Well some say it is relaxing to do something else and take a break from the mmo, but common. That idea from SWG was brilliant and worked well. I spent days only playing space combat in that game the old days and have to say even with the older graphic, it still was the best gameplay. A bit shame they brought this instead and make it look like a "mario" game instead. Could have been so much better and with their experience, almost a dissappointment. Looked really forward to it. But the good thingd about it, is the mini game is actionpaced and fast. Nothing more.

    So how do you think about it. How would the perfect space game for star wars look like for you ?

     

     

    Bioware can't keep anything it never had. This isn't SWG 2, nor should it be compared to SWG. Bioware is a totally different company with different strengths. Name one game Bioware has made that revolved around space combat? Bioware's strength is in storytelling, with dialogue options, and an alignment system. I don't know why anyone would expect a deep space combat system from Bioware judging by their previous game release.

    While I liked SWG's Jump to Light Speed expansion, I could really care less about space combat in SWTOR. Not unless they released Republic and Empire Pilots as a class that revolved around that aspect of Star Wars. I'd rather see Bioware concentrate on their strengths and develop more class based stories, or stories of equivalent or better quality for the Empire and Republic as a whole. I want them to develop the story and move the game forward. The timeline for this game hasn't advanced one bit since release and that's sad. Screw space combat until they get a good development schedule for more story going.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by NeoCroX997

    I can see EA/Bio have something going on the "dark" side for some of you, if I understand correctly. Star wars is about space combat a lot as you see in the movies and should´ve been into something more, the most people want.

    If the implant the feature of a 3D space combat with AI system we dream about. How much would it improve the game and its popularity ? Or perhaps it wouldn´t even matter.

    The engine cant handle that many players(in space combat) without overloading. Would it help with a new engine instead that can take the pressure of more players?  Rather a new engine the solution?

     

     

     

    I wholeheartedly disagree. As a huge Star Wars fan who loves ALL the movies and ALL the books, Star Wars has had minimal space combat, except in a few of their books. The majority of what goes on in the movies and books revolves around a small group of heroes, with the main good and bad guy being a Jedi and Sith. IMHO, Star Wars is about the struggle between the Light Side and Dark Side (Jedi and Sith) with the Empire (or its equivalent) and the Republic getting caught up in their business. 

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by nate1980 

    I wholeheartedly disagree. As a huge Star Wars fan who loves ALL the movies and ALL the books, Star Wars has had minimal space combat, except in a few of their books. The majority of what goes on in the movies and books revolves around a small group of heroes, with the main good and bad guy being a Jedi and Sith. IMHO, Star Wars is about the struggle between the Light Side and Dark Side (Jedi and Sith) with the Empire (or its equivalent) and the Republic getting caught up in their business. 

    I would disagree with your stance. There's a reason why the top selling Star Wars books are cross sectional schematics of the vehicles in Star Wars. Made up primarily of spaceships.

    While the expanded universe novels do alright, very few are buying backstory histories of Star Wars charcters.

    Within the cultural zetgeist, both Star Wars enthusists and detractors often refer to the series as either "A Western set in Space" or a "Space Soap Opera".

    To quote Portal: "SSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Or a space fantasy, heard that term used too.

    not uprising when you think hidden fortress. a film set in feudal Japan with fantastical elements was the biggest influence on the original star wars
  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member

    Yeah, Hidden Fortress is great to watch.

    The Artoo and Threepio charcters are introduced from the get go.

    And of course, Vadder's helmet is a modified Samuri helmet, etc,, etc.

    You could speculate that Star Wars did quite a bit better at the box office, being set in space and all.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Woah I'm not dissing the original film. Lucas himself says hidden fortress was a big influence.
  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Hey guess what you can compare space combat in two Star Wars MMOs and SWG had space done way better than SWTOR. Don 't make excuses for designing and implentmenting space as a mini-game when it was done much better with older tech.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by nilden
    Hey guess what you can compare space combat in two Star Wars MMOs and SWG had space done way better than SWTOR. Don 't make excuses for designing and implentmenting space as a mini-game when it was done much better with older tech.

    This.  It's not important how prominent space flight was in the movies or books, it was important enough to have it's own free-flight system.  I think they should've mixed KOTOR and SWG instead of KOTOR and WoW.  The clowns at EA will never learn, I just hope zexi gets a clue before it's too late.

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Winchester, MAPosts: 937Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Woah I'm not dissing the original film. Lucas himself says hidden fortress was a big influence.

    Nor was I.

    Star Wars is based off Hidden Fortress.

    The Departed is based off Internal Affairs.

    The Magnifient Seven is based off The Seven Samuri.

    Resevoir Dogs is based off City on Fire.

    All Western movies based on Asian movies. I enjoyed them all, both Western and Asian.

    But I've veered entirely off topic.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NeoCroX997

    I would like to hear what you think about swtor space combat as it is now. When I played star wars galaxies it was one of the greatest combat system in a mmo. Now they swtor´s slight different, but they still keep some parts like upgrading the ship.

     

    Still, that space JTL thingy felt too limited.

    it wasn't needed, you could always take the shuttle.

    What i missed was open space, too few ships and not enough modifications......this goes especially for swtor.

    + I dont like instant travel, press a button and after 1s you are at destination to land on the planet again.....

     

    I miss space mining, hauling passengers, doing cargo missions, things I like in EVE atm. It wasn't 'sandboxy' and 'starwarsy' enough.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

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