Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Why F2P?

uncleFesteruncleFester Huntersville, NCPosts: 38Member
Why can't they just make a real game and sell it? When I see F2P, I see only one thing: a game that wasn't good enough to charge money for. Am I expected to buy gear in this game just like in Diablo 3?
«1

Comments

  • chase17tnchase17tn whitwell, TNPosts: 93Member
    f2p gives them a chance to make more money over time

    image
    made by nonny
    and
    image
    made by Braggi

    thanks both u guys

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by uncleFester
    Why can't they just make a real game and sell it? When I see F2P, I see only one thing: a game that wasn't good enough to charge money for. Am I expected to buy gear in this game just like in Diablo 3?

     

    It uses the P2W model because there is low developer/publisher confidence that this game can be successful.  Based on the information I have seen those assessments are correct. 

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by uncleFester
    Why can't they just make a real game and sell it? When I see F2P, I see only one thing: a game that wasn't good enough to charge money for. Am I expected to buy gear in this game just like in Diablo 3?

    When a customer with 50 USD in his pocket enters a market and there are 3 products to chose from, you, as a developer/publisher has 3:1 chance that customer will spend money on your product.

    When you have 20 products on the market to chose from, 20:1 chance isn't very exciting. What you do is drop entry fee to improve your competitiveness on the market.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Nothing wrong with F2P ... in fact, i plan to play it for free.

    And in D3, you can SELL your stuff for real money .. which is a huge plus for me. I always have positive balance on it, and it even pays for MOP.

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member
    After seeing what it is and how they are laughably trying to market it as a MMO. Its not worth paying for, Really if they wanted to make money off of it. they should have released Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 with a online feature.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member
    Originally posted by thinktank001
    Originally posted by uncleFester
    Why can't they just make a real game and sell it? When I see F2P, I see only one thing: a game that wasn't good enough to charge money for. Am I expected to buy gear in this game just like in Diablo 3?

     

    It uses the P2W model because there is low developer/publisher confidence that this game can be successful.  Based on the information I have seen those assessments are correct. 


    Since there is currently no PvP or competitive play you can't really call it pay 2 win but anyways...

     

    Take a look Champions Online & DC Universe online their subscriptions numbers are great.... oh wait no they arent and they had to go F2P to survive. To most people this would indicate the market share for a Subscriber only superhero game is too small to be profitable or likely even sustainable. Therefore you plan accordingly and instead of starting subscription and trying to change model (which never works properly IMHO) after it fails instead you launch as F2P with microtransactions in place.

    Gazillion has already had good success with Super Hero Squad online using F2P with optional subscription from the get go and the model they use is quite successful. I think they stand to make a lot more money and more importantly (to players) have a lot more players playing their game by launching it as F2P.

    But dont let facts get in the way of your obvious blind hatred of anything F2P and by all means keep funneling money into buying MMO's and paying subscriptions for them only to see them reduced to F2P after a few months.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Rayshe
    After seeing what it is and how they are laughably trying to market it as a MMO. Its not worth paying for, Really if they wanted to make money off of it. they should have released Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 with a online feature.

    Just play it as a free MUA3.

    Who says anything about paying? It is F2P, you know. There is no reason (for me) not to play it.

  • thinktank001thinktank001 oasisPosts: 2,027Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheCrow2k


    Since there is currently no PvP or competitive play you can't really call it pay 2 win but anyways...

     

    Take a look Champions Online & DC Universe online their subscriptions numbers are great.... oh wait no they arent and they had to go F2P to survive. To most people this would indicate the market share for a Subscriber only superhero game is too small to be profitable or likely even sustainable. Therefore you plan accordingly and instead of starting subscription and trying to change model (which never works properly IMHO) after it fails instead you launch as F2P with microtransactions in place.

    Gazillion has already had good success with Super Hero Squad online using F2P with optional subscription from the get go and the model they use is quite successful. I think they stand to make a lot more money and more importantly (to players) have a lot more players playing their game by launching it as F2P.

    But dont let facts get in the way of your obvious blind hatred of anything F2P and by all means keep funneling money into buying MMO's and paying subscriptions for them only to see them reduced to F2P after a few months.

     

    PvP has nothing to do with the P2W business model.   If players purchase advancement from the cash shop, then it is P2W.   It is simply about taking game mechanics and monetizing them as a source of income.   It is a sound business decision to switch or start out P2W if the game doesn't have the quality and resources that are required for subscription based mmos.  

     

    I don't hate the P2W business model, but I don't lie and try to pass it off as something it is not.  In fact,  I would probably be in your shoes if I hadn't played only P2W games for the last 8 years.  

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Deleted User
    Why can't they just make a real game and sell it? When I see F2P, I see only one thing: a game that wasn't good enough to charge money for. Am I expected to buy gear in this game just like in Diablo 3?

    Because they couldn't charge $200 if they "made a real game and sold it". People would laugh in their faces. But $200 for a F2P game is nothing unusual.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Deleted User
    Why can't they just make a real game and sell it? When I see F2P, I see only one thing: a game that wasn't good enough to charge money for. Am I expected to buy gear in this game just like in Diablo 3?

    In D3, you can SELL gear. So it is great.

    Back to MH .. i heard that they are not selling gear, but they are selling access to the less known marvel characters, and costumes.

  • xmentyxmenty SingaporePosts: 679Member

    I should think F2P games doesn't stress out devs.

    They can slowly fine tune the game without much backlash from players.

     

     

     

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by uncleFester
    Why can't they just make a real game and sell it? When I see F2P, I see only one thing: a game that wasn't good enough to charge money for. Am I expected to buy gear in this game just like in Diablo 3?

     

    When a customer with 50 USD in his pocket enters a market and there are 3 products to chose from, you, as a developer/publisher has 3:1 chance that customer will spend money on your product.

    When you have 20 products on the market to chose from, 20:1 chance isn't very exciting. What you do is drop entry fee to improve your competitiveness on the market.

    Thats why you make a better game over the rest so people are dying to throw money at your company. Not sell your game out before it is even released. I persoanly dont play F2P games nor waste my time on micro-transactions. But do hope the rest of you gamers enjoy the game.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Onomas
     

    Thats why you make a better game over the rest so people are dying to throw money at your company. Not sell your game out before it is even released. I persoanly dont play F2P games nor waste my time on micro-transactions. But do hope the rest of you gamers enjoy the game.

    Chances are, you are not. If there is 20 games in the market, there is only ONE better than the other 19.

    However, games are not uni-dimensional .. it is not just good or not. Different players have different preferences. F2P is a way to attract players to try. If they don't try, they don't know if it is good, right?

    And i do enjoy STO, PS2, and quite a few other F2P games. I don't know if i am going to enjoy MH .. but i certainly will find out. If not, no big deal .. since there are plenty of other stuff to play. If yes, so much the better. I can't lose with F2P.

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Onomas
     

    Thats why you make a better game over the rest so people are dying to throw money at your company. Not sell your game out before it is even released. I persoanly dont play F2P games nor waste my time on micro-transactions. But do hope the rest of you gamers enjoy the game.

    Chances are, you are not. If there is 20 games in the market, there is only ONE better than the other 19.

    However, games are not uni-dimensional .. it is not just good or not. Different players have different preferences. F2P is a way to attract players to try. If they don't try, they don't know if it is good, right?

    And i do enjoy STO, PS2, and quite a few other F2P games. I don't know if i am going to enjoy MH .. but i certainly will find out. If not, no big deal .. since there are plenty of other stuff to play. If yes, so much the better. I can't lose with F2P.

    I like the F2P used for THIS particular game. I dislike that you can kind of P2W with the item finds and what not, but its not a game where that will affect me as much. In some games I hate being on a different level of playing field with a F2P player, but since this game is a lot like Diablo 3 it won't bother me. Seems their cash shop/payment method is almost the exact same as League of Legends, in which case, for this particular game, I am all thumbs up for it!

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by madazz
     

    I like the F2P used for THIS particular game. I dislike that you can kind of P2W with the item finds and what not, but its not a game where that will affect me as much. In some games I hate being on a different level of playing field with a F2P player, but since this game is a lot like Diablo 3 it won't bother me. Seems their cash shop/payment method is almost the exact same as League of Legends, in which case, for this particular game, I am all thumbs up for it!

    Glad that we agree at least on this game. I do wish that they give out more free heroes, but i suppose they have to make their $$$ too.

    While i usualy free load on F2P games, i may actually pay a fix amount for heroes i like in this one, given if the combat mechanics is enjoyable, and it has as much content as a SP game.

    I am a bit disappointed that they only have 26 heores at launch though. Even MUA has like 20, as a SP game. But i suppose they will add more if the game stays afloat.

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon

    Well Narius, I am against F2P in many of its forms, but I have also discovered that some forms of F2P just don't suit certain types of games (IMO). This game however really seems to have nailed it on the head, and I honestly think a lot of people will agree as it's very much like League of Legends. F2P will evolve and always have its place. As I said though, I just think it needs to be applied properly. I can guarantee you that I will be spending money on this game if it is even 50% as good as it looks.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by madazz

    Well Narius, I am against F2P in many of its forms, but I have also discovered that some forms of F2P just don't suit certain types of games (IMO). This game however really seems to have nailed it on the head, and I honestly think a lot of people will agree as it's very much like League of Legends. F2P will evolve and always have its place. As I said though, I just think it needs to be applied properly. I can guarantee you that I will be spending money on this game if it is even 50% as good as it looks.

    LOL .. will that make you a whale? (kidding) Are you a marvel fan? I am kind of surprised they don't have a "movie avenger" pack with cap, iron man, hulk, hawkeye and black widow. That seems to be the obvious thing to do.

    And yes, their f2p set up is pretty much LOL .. and it is because of the way the heroes are set up. So i think it is a very good fit.

    You probably also notice that they will have xp portion for sale too.

    My primarily concern is whether different heroes play really differently in terms of builds & mechanics. If Iron Man plays like a cyclop with the eye beam replaced with repulsor beam, then there is much less motivation to unlock a large number of heroes.

    OTOH, Diablo is really famous for having different build and play style, since David Brevik is involved, may be we are good on that issue.

     

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by madazz

    Well Narius, I am against F2P in many of its forms, but I have also discovered that some forms of F2P just don't suit certain types of games (IMO). This game however really seems to have nailed it on the head, and I honestly think a lot of people will agree as it's very much like League of Legends. F2P will evolve and always have its place. As I said though, I just think it needs to be applied properly. I can guarantee you that I will be spending money on this game if it is even 50% as good as it looks.

    LOL .. will that make you a whale? (kidding) Are you a marvel fan? I am kind of surprised they don't have a "movie avenger" pack with cap, iron man, hulk, hawkeye and black widow. That seems to be the obvious thing to do.

    And yes, their f2p set up is pretty much LOL .. and it is because of the way the heroes are set up. So i think it is a very good fit.

    You probably also notice that they will have xp portion for sale too.

    My primarily concern is whether different heroes play really differently in terms of builds & mechanics. If Iron Man plays like a cyclop with the eye beam replaced with repulsor beam, then there is much less motivation to unlock a large number of heroes.

    OTOH, Diablo is really famous for having different build and play style, since David Brevik is involved, may be we are good on that issue.

     

    Hahah, I suppose I am a whale ;)

    Yes I am a marvel fan, and DC. I don't read or buy them like I used to, but I still love it all anyways. I'm looking forward to Deadpool the most though! I am a bit surprised about the non-existant movie tie in as well, especially since there is the Iron Man 3 suit.

    I did notice that there is an XP potion, BUT, it doesn't bother me because the way leveling works. It seems to me all you are going to be doing is rushing there with the potion. Again, if its like LoL, that may not be a good thing. In LoL I'd rather more currency (IP) than level. You aren't also set in the same type of world as an MMO. So it doesn't make me worry about balance. We will all get their eventually, to me buying the XP potion is just like buying time instead of power. If the game had a grand scope like EvE then I'd worry, but its not even comparable.

    And that was my concern regarding the way they play too. I could easily see the melee's sharing the same basic skills but with different animations. I truly hope this isn't the case. I imagine there will be some cross over though.

    As you stated with David Brevik, there is a good chance we are safe for builds/style. Also take into account they most likely (I'd be willing to put money on it), looked at LoL's model and not only applied their F2P model, but also looked at how they made people WANT to play and possibly pay. That is to say, the champions are all different. Some are similar but I wouldn't call any 2 a clone. 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by madazz
     

    Hahah, I suppose I am a whale ;)

    Yes I am a marvel fan, and DC. I don't read or buy them like I used to, but I still love it all anyways. I'm looking forward to Deadpool the most though! I am a bit surprised about the non-existant movie tie in as well, especially since there is the Iron Man 3 suit.

    I did notice that there is an XP potion, BUT, it doesn't bother me because the way leveling works. It seems to me all you are going to be doing is rushing there with the potion. Again, if its like LoL, that may not be a good thing. In LoL I'd rather more currency (IP) than level. You aren't also set in the same type of world as an MMO. So it doesn't make me worry about balance. We will all get their eventually, to me buying the XP potion is just like buying time instead of power. If the game had a grand scope like EvE then I'd worry, but its not even comparable.

    And that was my concern regarding the way they play too. I could easily see the melee's sharing the same basic skills but with different animations. I truly hope this isn't the case. I imagine there will be some cross over though.

    As you stated with David Brevik, there is a good chance we are safe for builds/style. Also take into account they most likely (I'd be willing to put money on it), looked at LoL's model and not only applied their F2P model, but also looked at how they made people WANT to play and possibly pay. That is to say, the champions are all different. Some are similar but I wouldn't call any 2 a clone. 

    I would be very impressed if they can turn me into a whale too. And this game probably has the best chance of doing so. I am also a big Marvel fan. Right now i am collecting the 12in Hot Toy Avenger movie figure .. and that is steep .... $200+ a pop .. and there are 6 of them. I think i will be broke soon.

    I also notice the diverse mechanics of characters in LOL. Unfortunately i don't like that game because a) no persistent character progress, and b) only pvp, c) very slow game.

    However, there are enough systems about diverse build and power (D3 did a great job on that, LOL as you mentioned, previous Diablos, Marvel Ultimate Alliance games ...) so David probably would have a good idea how to do it well. I hope he has the budget to do justice with art & animation though.

     

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon

    1) Based on gameplay footage not many people would buy it outright for $50+.  It looks like a very subpar ARPG.

    2) The hardcore marvel fans will pay hundreds to unlock all of the heroes and costumes

     

    Brevik should be ashamed of being associated with this game.  The fact that he supports this pricing model shows how easily he sold out.

     

  • ScottgunScottgun Williamsville, NYPosts: 356Member
    Originally posted by chase17tn
    f2p gives them a chance to make more money over time

    My guess is that Gazillion Entertainment is funded by venture capital rather than in house, but I don't know. If I'm right, F2P is the model of choice because it's generally a quick return and the company can pay off the investors and get to the gravy if any significant population is left after the honeymoon with the players is over. From my personal experience that every f2p I've tried was one wallet-powered gerbil-wheel after another, I'm betting on failure.

    Now we're calling prostitutes "sex workers". What's next? Calling hit men "end-of-life technicians"?

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Scottgun
    If I'm right, F2P is the model of choice because it's generally a quick return and the company can pay off the investors and get to the gravy if any significant population is left after the honeymoon with the players is over. From my personal experience that every f2p I've tried was one wallet-powered gerbil-wheel after another, I'm betting on failure.

    F2P may potentially offer a larger return, but how exactly is it going to offer a quicker return?

    The way people make big bucks with F2P is getting some whales hooked and then pouring out a steady stream of "must haves" in the cash shop - like Atlantica Online with its new gambling box for a new mount or costume every month.

    If you want a quick return, surely box price plus aggressive pimping for pre-orders is the way to go? Although, I suppose, Marvel Heroes is kinda doing that too with their Founders' Packs.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Banquetto

     


    Originally posted by Scottgun
    If I'm right, F2P is the model of choice because it's generally a quick return and the company can pay off the investors and get to the gravy if any significant population is left after the honeymoon with the players is over. From my personal experience that every f2p I've tried was one wallet-powered gerbil-wheel after another, I'm betting on failure.

     

    F2P may potentially offer a larger return, but how exactly is it going to offer a quicker return?

    The way people make big bucks with F2P is getting some whales hooked and then pouring out a steady stream of "must haves" in the cash shop - like Atlantica Online with its new gambling box for a new mount or costume every month.

    If you want a quick return, surely box price plus aggressive pimping for pre-orders is the way to go? Although, I suppose, Marvel Heroes is kinda doing that too with their Founders' Packs.

    You are right F2P is never as fast as B2P. Look at D3 and GW2 .. sold millions, and get their $$$ up front. That is quick.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Scottgun
    Originally posted by chase17tn
    f2p gives them a chance to make more money over time

    My guess is that Gazillion Entertainment is funded by venture capital rather than in house, but I don't know. If I'm right, F2P is the model of choice because it's generally a quick return and the company can pay off the investors and get to the gravy if any significant population is left after the honeymoon with the players is over. From my personal experience that every f2p I've tried was one wallet-powered gerbil-wheel after another, I'm betting on failure.

    And from my personal experience, many F2P games are free, and successful enough to add content. I won't bet one way or the other until i play the game.

    And if you actually google, you will see that many games have their population exploded after turning F2P.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    You really don't need to know anything...about anything to have an opinion on this forums. As long as it's negative in some way you'll always have a bunch of mouth breathers to agree with you. I am actually surprised no one has said anything about it not being a sandbox mmo yet....but then it is only on page 3.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.