Oh make no mistake, change is a'comin. It will be more of a balancing than anything. Anyone that gets too bent out of shape over gaming should take a step back. When referring to these forums though it's important to remember that's what this specific area is for: arguing/pontificating/shooting the S about MMOs.
Originally posted by Aelious Oh make no mistake, change is a'comin. It will be more of a balancing than anything. Anyone that gets too bent out of shape over gaming should take a step back. When referring to these forums though it's important to remember that's what this specific area is for: arguing/pontificating/shooting the S about MMOs.
Sure .. there are always change.
But unlike some here who would rant about progress and be bitter about changes ... i will just do somethign else if games change to something i don't like. It is not like there will be a shortage of digital entertainment.
For game makers it is a golden age. They are able to slap together a turd of a game and make a pile of money. It is a dark age for the MMO consumer. The Market is driven by unethical companies that have no qualms about selling a sub-standard product. They are more interested in the "quick buck" than long term profits and readily destroy any good reputation they once had to acheive this. They are supported by legions of online shills who are payed to lie about..i mean hype these games. How does this story end? The consumer smartens the heck up and spends their entertainment dollars else where. I have accepted that the industry is incapable of putting out anything of value and moved onto FTP games and offline activities..
No .. all they are guilty of is not to make the game YOU like. You are just bitter because they progress without you.
If they make a pile of money, enough people like it. That is the principle of supply and demand.
It is a good time ... just not for you.
Perhaps you should open your eyes and read some posts before jumping to such conclusions. In fact he and many others here feel the same. Think you are the only one in this thread that likes gimped games...........hmmmmm
There's no shortage of bitter burnt out mmo players on this site. It doesn't mean they're right. It just means their time has come and gone and they don't know it yet.
Yeh .. I agree. It is very sad. If they don't like current games, they should just go do something else. It is not like they are forced to like it.
It is very sad that they have to talk down on others who like games they don't.
For game makers it is a golden age. They are able to slap together a turd of a game and make a pile of money. It is a dark age for the MMO consumer. The Market is driven by unethical companies that have no qualms about selling a sub-standard product. They are more interested in the "quick buck" than long term profits and readily destroy any good reputation they once had to acheive this. They are supported by legions of online shills who are payed to lie about..i mean hype these games. How does this story end? The consumer smartens the heck up and spends their entertainment dollars else where. I have accepted that the industry is incapable of putting out anything of value and moved onto FTP games and offline activities..
No .. all they are guilty of is not to make the game YOU like. You are just bitter because they progress without you.
If they make a pile of money, enough people like it. That is the principle of supply and demand.
It is a good time ... just not for you.
Perhaps you should open your eyes and read some posts before jumping to such conclusions. In fact he and many others here feel the same. Think you are the only one in this thread that likes gimped games...........hmmmmm
There's no shortage of bitter burnt out mmo players on this site. It doesn't mean they're right. It just means their time has come and gone and they don't know it yet.
Yeh .. I agree. It is very sad. If they don't like current games, they should just go do something else. It is not like they are forced to like it.
It is very sad that they have to talk down on others who like games they don't.
ROFLMMFAO!!!! Hypocrit much?
Exactly he attacks everyone that doesnt ahve the same opinion as he does. They seem to be the bitter ones, or just good at baiting people into conflict.
Oh our rosy spectacles types have been with us for ages. They see everything about modern MMO’s through rosy glasses, it is all wonderful and so on. Its sort of like fan boys but for the whole industry.
Oh our rosy spectacles types have been with us for ages. They see everything about modern MMO’s through rosy glasses, it is all wonderful and so on. Its sort of like fan boys but for the whole industry.
While the other half wears them for mmos of long ago. WoW becoming one of them.
Per thread topic, the golden age will start when a good immersive long-term mmo is actually released. Not something that entertains for a month or two then gets old.
I don't know, I kind of agree with the OP in a sense.
On my PC I currently have EvE, Vanguard, TERA, WoW, Rift, and PS2 installed, all of which I play from time to time (my game time for WoW is expiring soon though.)
Two biggest right now for me are TERA and EvE - which couldn't be any more different if they tried.
I've got like 4 months of EvE already paid for via some nice returning sub deals, and TERA is going F2P in a few weeks and actually doesn't seem to be going the "heavily restricted" route.
On the horizon I am hyped for Arche Age, Final Fantasy XIV, and possibly Defiance, Neverwinter, and Elder Scrolls Online.
On the distant edge you've got EQNext and Titan.
It's a pretty good time to be an MMO player, IMO.
I have really fond memories of UO, E&B, SWG, Vanilla WoW... even Tabula Rasa and early WAR...
but the graphics and gameplay and OPTIONS out now is just unparalleled.
Originally posted by KingJiggly There has never been a golden age of mmos. The golden age will come when an mmo reaches the casual market, similair to how gw2 is doing it. Themeparks are the future, you just need to build on them.
themepark games are not casual lol. Sandbox games are for casual gamers. Are you sure you know what casual means? Because themeparks are anything but casual. And games use to be casual, just to difficult for some to grasp how to play and needed their hands held.
Themeparks are the definition of casual.... It's a story you follow along, if you only play a bit or all day doesn't matter. You're on a yellow brick road. You can stop playing for months and come back right where you left off. End game is really the only part of a themepark that becomes " hard core "
Sandbox, unless you treat it like a glorified chat room takes a lot of time to get anywhere in. They are not very casual friendly.
Either themeparks or sandboxes can be seen or played as casual. Themeparks, by design require the devs to continously release content to satisfy those who burn through it quickly. What is left is a few players at the top, and hordes of people trying to catch up, and a few left behind playing the game as a single player game. Usually if your not at top you declare yourself casual, despite how much time you invest in the game.
Games that appeal to the causal player will offer them something. At least for me playing an MMO as a single player game is not one of those things. I rather play a single player RPG, which caters better to the experience.
Originally posted by Eir_S I think the guy is just trying to be positive, so whatever. There are still a lot of people who buy games who don't meticulously scan forums for every feature and then complain when the game doesn't release with it and working 100%, they just buy it because it looks fun and they don't give themselves a heart attack over the small things... so yeah, there are some great games on that list.
This 10000%.
Seriously I think some people here just live to be miserable.
Oh our rosy spectacles types have been with us for ages. They see everything about modern MMO’s through rosy glasses, it is all wonderful and so on. Its sort of like fan boys but for the whole industry.
While the other half wears them for mmos of long ago. WoW becoming one of them.
Per thread topic, the golden age will start when a good immersive long-term mmo is actually released. Not something that entertains for a month or two then gets old.
Second Life
Ultima Online
Everquest
Dark Age of Camelot
A Tale in the Desert (ATITD)
There
Puzzle Pirates
EVE Online
Project Entropia (now Entropia Universe)
ToonTown
I'd say that fits the description you just gave. There are others from that period that could be added to that list, too. The platform was evolving and experimenting with new ideas.
Now, if we want to accept the PBBGs, MMORTS, Action RPGs and the other variations of MMOs under the MMO umbrella then I would say we are currently looking at the golden age now... but I'm not sure everyone here is on board with such a blashpemous level of inclusion.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There was never a Golden Age of MMOS and there isn't one now. At least not in the sense of a overarching all inclusive feeling for the entire genre. A genre, if I may add, that includes more than mmos in the western hemisphere. But there are ages needless to say and it all started with:
Stone Age (1985-1995) The begining of MMOs (Neverwinter Nights)
Classical Age (1996-1999) The birth of a genre (Meridian, Nexus, UO, EQ, AC, Lineage...)
Bronze Age (2000-2004) The population boom (DAoC, AO, SWG, WoW, EQ2...)
Renaissance Age (2005-present) a period of pessimism and nostalgia for the Classical Age
Now don't get me wrong. The Renaissance Age of MMOs is not entirely bad. It's the age of thinking, direction changing, new monetary supporting methods, choices and hopfully fresh ideas. And it may be the gateway into a New Age of MMOs. But it still won't be a Golden Age. The Golden Age is nothing more that a ficticious period that differs from person to person. It's a personal feeling of when you felt things couldn't get any better. But they often do for people. It may not be as soon as some people like, but it's a personal experience nevertheless.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
There is just no way we are experiencing the golden age now. If anything the genre is in susepension, rescession even. We as gamers are evolving far beyond that of the current games. Devs just can not compete, its basically a game of darts to them. It is hit or miss what we like and whgat we dislike. Eventually someone will hit a bullseye, and then the golden age of mmos will return.
There was never a Golden Age of MMOS and there isn't one now. At least not in the sense of a overarching all inclusive feeling for the entire genre. A genre, if I may add, that includes more than mmos in the western hemisphere. But there are ages needless to say and it all started with:
Stone Age (1985-1995) The begining of MMOs (Neverwinter Nights)
Classical Age (1996-1999) The birth of a genre (Meridian, Nexus, UO, EQ, AC, Lineage...)
Bronze Age (2000-2004) The population boom (DAoC, AO, SWG, WoW, EQ2...)
Renaissance Age (2005-present) a period of pessimism and nostalgia for the Classical Age
Now don't get me wrong. The Renaissance Age of MMOs is not entirely bad. It's the age of thinking, direction changing, new monetary supporting methods, choices and hopfully fresh ideas. And it may be the gateway into a New Age of MMOs. But it still won't be a Golden Age. The Golden Age is nothing more that a ficticious period that differs from person to person. It's a personal feeling of when you felt things couldn't get any better. But they often do for people. It may not be as soon as some people like, but it's a personal experience nevertheless.
That's an interesting take on things. Classical before Bronze? I like it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think the golden age could still be on the horizon. I agree that everyone has their own ideas of what would constitute a "golden age" and that diversity is the key to the whole thing.
So, in the classic age there was a lack of features that made the game more accesible to a larger audience. WOW came out and blew the top off of that thing. Now we have an ocean of games that try to copy that design. We have EVE and some even smaller titles that still have a more difficult aspect to them as well as sandbox elements but really this is what is lacking from the many choices that are out there now.
If some games on the horizon come out with a bit of a retro feel to the game design, then we would be able to choose from the full spectrum of games. That, I feel, would be the golden age.
There was never a Golden Age of MMOS and there isn't one now. At least not in the sense of a overarching all inclusive feeling for the entire genre. A genre, if I may add, that includes more than mmos in the western hemisphere. But there are ages needless to say and it all started with:
Stone Age (1985-1995) The begining of MMOs (Neverwinter Nights)
Classical Age (1996-1999) The birth of a genre (Meridian, Nexus, UO, EQ, AC, Lineage...)
Bronze Age (2000-2004) The population boom (DAoC, AO, SWG, WoW, EQ2...)
Renaissance Age (2005-present) a period of pessimism and nostalgia for the Classical Age
Now don't get me wrong. The Renaissance Age of MMOs is not entirely bad. It's the age of thinking, direction changing, new monetary supporting methods, choices and hopfully fresh ideas. And it may be the gateway into a New Age of MMOs. But it still won't be a Golden Age. The Golden Age is nothing more that a ficticious period that differs from person to person. It's a personal feeling of when you felt things couldn't get any better. But they often do for people. It may not be as soon as some people like, but it's a personal experience nevertheless.
That's an interesting take on things. Classical before Bronze? I like it.
"Nail on the head" so to speak. You are right we simply need to remain vigilant that eventually the golden age will hit the market will be evened out and we will see tons of new games that inspire us in new and itneresting ways.
I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time.. It's impossible to balance..
Originally posted by Rydeson I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time.. It's impossible to balance..
Just out of curiosity have you heard of Wow? Just a question not trying to be mean.
Originally posted by Rydeson I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time.. It's impossible to balance..
What?
EVE online, buddy. You know, the successful MMO that thas been steadily growing in popularity since 2003; something that most MMOs cannot claim. The PVPers have the perfect symbiotic relationship with the PVEers. CCP has exposed the fact that both can and should be intertwined. It just has to be done right, of course.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
SWTOR - Broken F2P model, the worst end game I have ever laid eyes on. Right now I couldn't recommend this to anyone. 300 million to create this? All the money spent on voice overs and well acted cut scenes. I love good story, but save it for my single player games, if I wanted to be sucked in I would play Farcry 3, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy.
TSW - This game is better than SWTOR, it's puzzles are somewhat engaging, and its classless progression is nice. However it suffers from broken unbalanced pvp, no raids, terrible hardcore mode 5 man dungeons. I could suggest this to someone however, so not so far off the mark on this one.
Vanguard - Ohh this game could of had it all, but I could never suggest to someone a game that has not had a significant update in about five years. It lacks polish in so many areas, I love what Vanguard could and should be, and perhaps supporting it is a way to get it to that place, but see it for what its free to play model is please, a cash grab. in a dying game.
Tera - No complaints on this suggestion, great game, but do not play down its pvp which is by far its most entertaining element. If you don't like pvp, then I would in all honesty suggest something like Final Fantasy XI, but in this list you are only suggesting F2P games, so EQ2.
GW2 - No opinion on this one, I haven't played it. Don't like its feature list, leveling up to access new zones and armor skins doesn't sound very appealing to me, and its pvp isn't FFA or Full loot and doesn't hold a candle to Tera.
Xyson - How dare you recommend this game to anyone. As far as sandoxes go, why not recommend Mortal Online while you are at it. Simple fact, you cannot recommend a single sandbox game right now for free, the best sandbox at the moment is Eve Online which can be free if you play like a boss, but don't go selling Xyson to anyone.
On your last few suggestions I'll do these in quick fire.
Aion - Very Grindy, very much dying - play at your own peril, this one's days are numbered folks.
AoC - Pay to win nightmare, you can subscribe to this mess, and still have to pay for items off the shop to compete, this one is a dud, a mess of a game that held so much potential.
EQ2 - you need to put money down for this game, otherwise the limitations are just to great, if you get lucky and the class you want to play with the race you want to play is on offer then fantastic, I have an SOE all acess pass, so I play it right now but I find the constant immersion breaking mounts, and cosmetic items to be ruining my fun.
LOL---you did not de bunk but rather expressed your opinion, that is what is great about MMORPG.com, people can come on read someones post express their own opinion and be totaly wrong. But I do appreciate the difference of opinion
Originally posted by Rydeson I just wish devs would either create a PvP game or a PvE game... You can NOT have both co-exist with great success at the same time.. It's impossible to balance..
What?
EVE online, buddy. You know, the successful MMO that thas been steadily growing in popularity since 2003; something that most MMOs cannot claim. The PVPers have the perfect symbiotic relationship with the PVEers. CCP has exposed the fact that both can and should be intertwined. It just has to be done right, of course.
That really depends on your definition of "done right" and "symbiotic relationship". I tried EVE multiple times and could not continue to play the game due to the way PvP completely dominates the PvE aspects of the game and is in fact a parasite that poisons the PvE side of EVE.
I wouldn't call what we have now the golden age...Maybe the age of opportunity or something like that....Theres alot more available than ever and quite a bit of it is free to try at least.....Games like SWTOR and TSW certainly aren't what I would consider golden age type of games though.....I wouldn't play either one for free tbh.
Comments
Sure .. there are always change.
But unlike some here who would rant about progress and be bitter about changes ... i will just do somethign else if games change to something i don't like. It is not like there will be a shortage of digital entertainment.
ROFLMMFAO!!!! Hypocrit much?
Exactly he attacks everyone that doesnt ahve the same opinion as he does. They seem to be the bitter ones, or just good at baiting people into conflict.
Oh our rosy spectacles types have been with us for ages. They see everything about modern MMO’s through rosy glasses, it is all wonderful and so on. Its sort of like fan boys but for the whole industry.
While the other half wears them for mmos of long ago. WoW becoming one of them.
Per thread topic, the golden age will start when a good immersive long-term mmo is actually released. Not something that entertains for a month or two then gets old.
I don't know, I kind of agree with the OP in a sense.
On my PC I currently have EvE, Vanguard, TERA, WoW, Rift, and PS2 installed, all of which I play from time to time (my game time for WoW is expiring soon though.)
Two biggest right now for me are TERA and EvE - which couldn't be any more different if they tried.
I've got like 4 months of EvE already paid for via some nice returning sub deals, and TERA is going F2P in a few weeks and actually doesn't seem to be going the "heavily restricted" route.
On the horizon I am hyped for Arche Age, Final Fantasy XIV, and possibly Defiance, Neverwinter, and Elder Scrolls Online.
On the distant edge you've got EQNext and Titan.
It's a pretty good time to be an MMO player, IMO.
I have really fond memories of UO, E&B, SWG, Vanilla WoW... even Tabula Rasa and early WAR...
but the graphics and gameplay and OPTIONS out now is just unparalleled.
it's the golden age of themepark MMOs. if you like instant satisfaction, yes, then this is a good time for you.
for players that like MMO sandboxes, then no.
Unless you play EVE.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Either themeparks or sandboxes can be seen or played as casual. Themeparks, by design require the devs to continously release content to satisfy those who burn through it quickly. What is left is a few players at the top, and hordes of people trying to catch up, and a few left behind playing the game as a single player game. Usually if your not at top you declare yourself casual, despite how much time you invest in the game.
Games that appeal to the causal player will offer them something. At least for me playing an MMO as a single player game is not one of those things. I rather play a single player RPG, which caters better to the experience.
This 10000%.
Seriously I think some people here just live to be miserable.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There was never a Golden Age of MMOS and there isn't one now. At least not in the sense of a overarching all inclusive feeling for the entire genre. A genre, if I may add, that includes more than mmos in the western hemisphere. But there are ages needless to say and it all started with:
Now don't get me wrong. The Renaissance Age of MMOs is not entirely bad. It's the age of thinking, direction changing, new monetary supporting methods, choices and hopfully fresh ideas. And it may be the gateway into a New Age of MMOs. But it still won't be a Golden Age. The Golden Age is nothing more that a ficticious period that differs from person to person. It's a personal feeling of when you felt things couldn't get any better. But they often do for people. It may not be as soon as some people like, but it's a personal experience nevertheless.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
MMO's are turning into group based dungeon games with a big lobby/city as center.
Apart from a select few that still want to be different then the cash-grabs today.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
That's an interesting take on things. Classical before Bronze? I like it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think the golden age could still be on the horizon. I agree that everyone has their own ideas of what would constitute a "golden age" and that diversity is the key to the whole thing.
So, in the classic age there was a lack of features that made the game more accesible to a larger audience. WOW came out and blew the top off of that thing. Now we have an ocean of games that try to copy that design. We have EVE and some even smaller titles that still have a more difficult aspect to them as well as sandbox elements but really this is what is lacking from the many choices that are out there now.
If some games on the horizon come out with a bit of a retro feel to the game design, then we would be able to choose from the full spectrum of games. That, I feel, would be the golden age.
"Nail on the head" so to speak. You are right we simply need to remain vigilant that eventually the golden age will hit the market will be evened out and we will see tons of new games that inspire us in new and itneresting ways.
Just out of curiosity have you heard of Wow? Just a question not trying to be mean.
What?
EVE online, buddy. You know, the successful MMO that thas been steadily growing in popularity since 2003; something that most MMOs cannot claim. The PVPers have the perfect symbiotic relationship with the PVEers. CCP has exposed the fact that both can and should be intertwined. It just has to be done right, of course.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
It's been said before, but if those games were worth the price of a sub, they would charge one to play it.
I suppose if you're just a cheap bastard that doesn't know what a torrent is I could see something to get excited about, otherwise don't even bother.
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
+1
That really depends on your definition of "done right" and "symbiotic relationship". I tried EVE multiple times and could not continue to play the game due to the way PvP completely dominates the PvE aspects of the game and is in fact a parasite that poisons the PvE side of EVE.