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Perma Banned For Wanting Refund

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  • bliss14bliss14 eleva, WIPosts: 565Member
    Originally posted by DarkestNite
    Oh and if you read the fine print of the terms and conditions it has a clause about pre order refunds. If you try to get one, they can ban you, easy as that. 

    Every time a terms and conditions clause gets the best of someone I think of the HUMANCENTiPAD on South Park.

     

    image

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by skamper

    The company I work for takes paypal disputes very seriously. We keep track of all people who dispute and terminate  /  prevent any sort of business in the future with them.

     

     

    As you should.  My company 'fires' customers who do this or puts them in a 'cash only' status with no further digital payments allowed.  We are more than willing to work out disputes in a resonable amount of time.  Many companies don't take Paypal for this reason.  Starting to sound like a good idea if custoemrs are going to pull this garbage whenever they fancy.

    Whether it was Paypal or a CC makes no difference. If something was promised for release or delivery on a certain date with certain features, and that does not happen, the customer is fully justified in requesting a refund. With AV not releasing in Dec and instead going with a prolonged beta at the last minute, a refund seems fully justified.

     

    And we agree that the customer should get a refund.  That's not what the problem is.  The METHOD the cusotmer went about to get the refund is the issue.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
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  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by benseine
     

    Well i only put forward my view on the matter and dont care wether it pleases someone.

    Fans usually see to the company best and is therefore biased and not much to care about.

    I want companies to act fair towards their customers thats all.

     

    With regards to the refund matter, they have acted more than fairly.

     

    You pay for beta/pre launch access. If you initiate a refund process, you are no longer entitled to that access regardless as as to when you receive your refund, so long as you receive it at some point.  You are only entitled to that game time so long as you have paid for it AND you have no intention of claiming that money back.

     

    It is laughable that people are suggesting that the customer should be given extra free time, of which they are not in the least entitled to, for a product they have demonstrated that they are unwilling to pay for, simply whilst they wait to get their money back. It's worse than laughable in fact, it's utterly pathetic.

     

    If the refund process takes three days or a week, tough tits, you are not entitled to that extra game time as you have already indicated you are not going to pay for either A) the game time you have sponged off previously or B) the additional free game time whilst you wait.

     

    It is entirely right that the OP's account was shut down when he asked for a refund. It is entirely ludicrous that some people think he should be given extra game time for a product he has NO INTENTION OF PAYING FOR.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • benseinebenseine HaarlemPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by benseine
    [mod edit]

    We've tried to help him and you both lol. You don't want to hear it though. 

    Coming to a forums and saying "I initiated a charge back with paypal on a game and my game account was banned" is a bit asinine. Thats the logical expected outcome for anyone that has been playing games for any length of time. 

    Coming here isn't going to garner you or the OP sympathy, it's going to have the exact opposite effect. 

    Fans are going to troll you

    Non Fans aren't going to be sympathetic because the practice is standard

    The only support you will find are from haters and trolls looking to kick the bees nest as much as they can. 

     

    Welcome to gaming, this was something you needed to learn if you decide to remain in gaming. Initiating a refund means you lose your game account. This is standard practice through out the industry. Sorry you guys seemed to think you can start the refund process and continue playing, but it doesn't work that way. 

    Well i only put forward my view on the matter and dont care wether it pleases someone.

    Fans usually see to the company best and is therefore biased and not much to care about.

    I want companies to act fair towards their customers thats all.

     

    Me being a fan or being biased has nothing to do with breaking EULA and get yourself banned ;) This raging nerd isn't being fair about it by going emo on forum like this... He broke the rules he agreed to and now he cries about the consequesnces. So I post again:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ23kosLFec

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Fool me once...
  • BoreilBoreil Dallas, TXPosts: 448Member Uncommon
    Thats what you get. Should have stuck it out.

    image

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by Zheom
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    they can ban for whatever reason. Messing with their income is a sure way to get banned.

     

    What did you expect them to do when you tried to reach into their pockets thru paypal and get your money back ? Be happy about it ?

     

    you're trying to take back your money and they're trying to take back their product. Where's the fraud ?

    I don't get it why people are ok with this...

    The fraud is when you're trying to get your money back because the product was falsly advertised and they refuse to give your money back... That's a fraud.

     There is no features on their official page that isn't actually in-game already. Also he never actually received what he really paid for yet (the released game). 

    Luckly for OP, you can get your money back by contacting paypal to do a chargeback again and explain what happened to your account now. If not, you can chargeback from your creditcard company which you use for paypal (and here you have the biggest chances of getting your money back since CC companies do have a policy about such matters and ofcourse, there's the law).

     

    Yes, he can most likely get his money back this way. also he will most likely never be able to buy anything from Aventurine under his name atleast.

     

     

    Probably his information will be black-listed, but if I'd get burned like that there's no way I'd buy another product from the same company.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • KilrainKilrain Prineville, ORPosts: 684Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by joshbaby03

    http://i45.tinypic.com/1zdykab.jpg

     

    Today I was banned for requesting PayPal to seek a refund from AV on my behalf due to their product not being as advertised, as well as not having any discernable release date.  I just want ya'll to know that they will ban you if you try to get your money back in any way possible, and more than likely you will not get anything back in the end.  This is fraud in my book, and I hope that MMORPG.com and other sites cover this...I don't know where to send this information so that it gets on the front page, but it needs to be.

     

    Jed

    It's BETA therefore you're "expectations" are not "required" to be met, you should have waiting until AFTER release then if you still didn't like it request a refund. 

     

    [mod edit]

    professional web programming and design.

  • KilrainKilrain Prineville, ORPosts: 684Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by benseine
     

    Well i only put forward my view on the matter and dont care wether it pleases someone.

    Fans usually see to the company best and is therefore biased and not much to care about.

    I want companies to act fair towards their customers thats all.

     

    With regards to the refund matter, they have acted more than fairly.

     

    You pay for beta/pre launch access. If you initiate a refund process, you are no longer entitled to that access regardless as as to when you receive your refund, so long as you receive it at some point.  You are only entitled to that game time so long as you have paid for it AND you have no intention of claiming that money back.

     

    It is laughable that people are suggesting that the customer should be given extra free time, of which they are not in the least entitled to, for a product they have demonstrated that they are unwilling to pay for, simply whilst they wait to get their money back. It's worse than laughable in fact, it's utterly pathetic.

     

    If the refund process takes three days or a week, tough tits, you are not entitled to that extra game time as you have already indicated you are not going to pay for either A) the game time you have sponged off previously or B) the additional free game time whilst you wait.

     

    It is entirely right that the OP's account was shut down when he asked for a refund. It is entirely ludicrous that some people think he should be given extra game time for a product he has NO INTENTION OF PAYING FOR.

    beginning to think there wasn't a single logical person here.

    professional web programming and design.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by benseine
    Originally posted by benseine

    hahahahahahahahahahahahhaha fucking rolf, you butthurt now?

    You agreed to the EULA without reading it? right? :P

    You went straight to Paypal and didn't contacted AV at all, right? That is reason to ban your account ==> bye bye money

    Don't worry, it has happened before. More info on what can happen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ23kosLFec

    We've tried to help him and you both lol. You don't want to hear it though. 

    Coming to a forums and saying "I initiated a charge back with paypal on a game and my game account was banned" is a bit asinine. Thats the logical expected outcome for anyone that has been playing games for any length of time. 

    Coming here isn't going to garner you or the OP sympathy, it's going to have the exact opposite effect. 

    Fans are going to troll you

    Non Fans aren't going to be sympathetic because the practice is standard

    The only support you will find are from haters and trolls looking to kick the bees nest as much as they can. 

     

    Welcome to gaming, this was something you needed to learn if you decide to remain in gaming. Initiating a refund means you lose your game account. This is standard practice through out the industry. Sorry you guys seemed to think you can start the refund process and continue playing, but it doesn't work that way. 

    Well i only put forward my view on the matter and dont care wether it pleases someone.

    Fans usually see to the company best and is therefore biased and not much to care about.

    I want companies to act fair towards their customers thats all.

     

    Me being a fan or being biased has nothing to do with breaking EULA and get yourself banned ;) This raging nerd isn't being fair about it by going emo on forum like this... He broke the rules he agreed to and now he cries about the consequesnces. So I post again:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ23kosLFec

    EULA and TOA means next to nothing to credit card companies or if you look at it from the legal side... That's why you never even hear of somoene going to a court and suing a gaming company since it get's settled before it gets there.

    I had the same opinion about it before I saw a few discussion threads on this forums where I was proven wrong, and wrong I was indeed... When TOA or EULA are broken by both parties it's void anyways. So stop clinging to it like there's no tomorrow because the OP is entitled to get his money back. I don't know why everywhere else it's: "the customer is always right", but only in virtual world it's "the company has your money, we screwed you, now go cry."

    Yes, he got the ban as he should've... But he didn't get the refund yet, and that's what's not right in this case.

    Ban + refund = ok

    Ban - refund = not ok

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by IAmMMO

     Despite their claim of a no refund you are still entitled to one within the EU if you put money down as a Pre order,and the product is not officially released yet. As long as it still up as for pre order those who've pre ordered by law within the EU are entitled to have their money back if they change their mind. It still won't stop a company if they decide to black list you from their service since their misleading with info that no refund with pre orders when there are laws that say otherwise within the EU. That thing you sign don't hold water to block you from a refund to money put down on a pre order. Hence they'll give money back when challenged, but black list you out of spite.


     

    Exactly.

    Aventurine is not following the EU laws. He should have his refund and the ban should be removed asap. 

     

    Every mmo company bans someone who does a chargeback, which, unless I'm misreading the post, is essentially what he did, only through paypal.  I'm not entirely sure why the account wouldn't be banned if they are getting their money back through paypal, why would AV continue to allow access to the account that would no longer have been paid for?

  • AzdulAzdul GdanskPosts: 440Member
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    The account shouldnt be banned before he get his refund, period.

    It's like asking for your money back at the restaurant - but you still want to finish your meal and get dessert.

    AV acted EXACTLY like every other company - Blizzard, SOE, EA, CCP, etc. PayPal let them know that they will not get ANY payment from particular client, and immediately took 30$ away from AV account - so AV decided to no longer offer the service to this client.

    If you use credit card, not only the bank takes all the risk and returns the money immediately, but actually punish the company for unhappy clients - by increasing commission. 

    PayPal won't return the money immediately - because they have much higher % of people who are doing frivolous charge backs.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by benseine
    Originally posted by benseine
     

     

     

     

    Yes, he got the ban as he should've... But he didn't get the refund yet, and that's what's not right in this case.

    Ban + refund = ok

    Ban - refund = not ok

    He is getting a refund.

     

    There is ZERO reason why he should get a free product whilst he waits for said refund. This isn't a sub, he isn't owed time, he is claiming back ALL of his money and as such he is getting a shed load of game time for a product he will not ultimately have paid for. A product which requires you to pay for it.

     

    He is getting a free product and yet some people seem to think he deserves more free time even though he is going to end up paying for fk all? What an utter load.

     

    The only issue would be if he never receives his refund. Otherwise they are quite right to ban him as soon as he makes it clear that he is demanding a refund.

     

    "I'm not paying for this product and I want extra FREE access whilst I wait for my refund to clear". lol yeah right.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • AzdulAzdul GdanskPosts: 440Member
    Originally posted by korent1991

    EULA and TOA means next to nothing to credit card companies or if you look at it from the legal side... That's why you never even hear of somoene going to a court and suing a gaming company since it get's settled before it gets there.

    I don't know why everywhere else it's: "the customer is always right", but only in virtual world it's "the company has your money, we screwed you, now go cry."

    For credit card companies (NOT PayPal) - the customer is always right, and the company is always right.

    If the customer starts charging back left and right from different companies, they will assume that at least in some cases he was dishonest, and offer him card with high commission and low credit limit.

    If the seller has a lot of chargebacks - he will get higher commission, as high risk merchant account.

    So for credit card company everyone is always right - just some people pay more for the priviledge of being right than the others.

  • KLECKOKLECKO ELMWOOD PK, NJPosts: 45Member

    So how much money is the Op talking about  ?  $ 60 ? $40 ? 30? no he crying over $15

    If I go to the mall and buy xbox game .I open the game ,play the game ,and i dont like the game.Can I return it ? NO

  • DrannyDranny BarnsleyPosts: 276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by joshbaby03
    I did try to get refund from AV directly before going the paypal route.  I am not saying I want access to the game as well as my money back, no not at all.  I am saying I have no refund, and no access...which isn't proper...if PayPal does refund my money then sure, I understand and all is well, but if not then they keep the money, and deny the access?

    And what did they say when you asked them first for a refund .?

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    they can ban for whatever reason. Messing with their income is a sure way to get banned.

     

    What did you expect them to do when you tried to reach into their pockets thru paypal and get your money back ? Be happy about it ?

     

    you're trying to take back your money and they're trying to take back their product. Where's the fraud ?

    Did they give the money back before they banned his account? His post stated trying to get a refund.

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by KLECKO

    So how much money is the Op talking about  ?  $ 60 ? $40 ? 30? no he crying over $15

    If I go to the mall and buy xbox game .I open the game ,play the game ,and i dont like the game.Can I return it ? NO

    [mod edit] It is not the amount of the money that is the issue. The issue is the false advertising by the company selling the product. So does not matter the cost. If you advertise a product does X, Y, Z and it does not do any of these things then you lied to the consumers and should be refunding the payment.

     

    Also note Steam has already pulled the game and giving refunds for this reason.

  • drgrandrgran Guelph, ONPosts: 192Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yizle
    Originally posted by KLECKO

    So how much money is the Op talking about  ?  $ 60 ? $40 ? 30? no he crying over $15

    If I go to the mall and buy xbox game .I open the game ,play the game ,and i dont like the game.Can I return it ? NO

    [mod edit]. It is not the amount of the money that is the issue. The issue is the false advertising by the company selling the product. So does not matter the cost. If you advertise a product does X, Y, Z and it does not do any of these things then you lied to the consumers and should be refunding the payment.

     

    Also note Steam has already pulled the game and giving refunds for this reason.

    The  company only promised X Y and Z on release date. Until then they promised access to the game which is in beta. The OP  didn't get cut off until he asked for a refund. 

    How does the OP know that they already sent in the money to get put the refund through. If they did then they are allowed to ban his account, even if the OP didnt get his money yet.

    They paid the proper way to give his money back so they are out of the money he orginally paid. It is up to Paypal and the banks to process his claim. 

    Basicly He didnt pay for the product when he asked for the Refund.

    ASUS G74sx
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    240GB SSD & 750GB

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Yizle
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    they can ban for whatever reason. Messing with their income is a sure way to get banned.

     

    What did you expect them to do when you tried to reach into their pockets thru paypal and get your money back ? Be happy about it ?

     

    you're trying to take back your money and they're trying to take back their product. Where's the fraud ?

    Did they give the money back before they banned his account? His post stated trying to get a refund.

    He went through paypal for the refund, the refund from the seller is usually taken back instantly. The problem comes from Paypals slow process in releasing those funds to you. If AV banned his account then paypal has the money from AV already. It can take weeks for paypal to actually give it to the OP though. 

     

     

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member
    I cant believe this thread had 13 pages. Now, i see why forumfall thinks mmorpg.com has the worst community.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by korent1991
    Originally posted by benseine
    Originally posted by benseine
     

     

     

     

    Yes, he got the ban as he should've... But he didn't get the refund yet, and that's what's not right in this case.

    Ban + refund = ok

    Ban - refund = not ok

    He is getting a refund.

     

    There is ZERO reason why he should get a free product whilst he waits for said refund. This isn't a sub, he isn't owed time, he is claiming back ALL of his money and as such he is getting a shed load of game time for a product he will not ultimately have paid for. A product which requires you to pay for it.

     

    He is getting a free product and yet some people seem to think he deserves more free time even though he is going to end up paying for fk all? What an utter load.

     

    The only issue would be if he never receives his refund. Otherwise they are quite right to ban him as soon as he makes it clear that he is demanding a refund.

     

    "I'm not paying for this product and I want extra FREE access whilst I wait for my refund to clear". lol yeah right.

    oh, I think I misunderstood the op then... I tought he got a ban but still won't get a refund...

    In that case, everything I told would stand... But this way, it doesn't...

    I agree with you, if you asked for a chargeback then you should get a ban right that instant since you clearly don't like the product and you're taking your money back. 

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,166Member Uncommon

    Did you get access to their content?

     

     

    If so, then they have a point.....still they might be shielded anyway if you accepted their EULA.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • SerignuadSerignuad Gorham, MEPosts: 87Member

    1. Buy the Pre-order.

    2. Play as much as you want.

    3. Cancel the pre-order.

    4. Get your money back.

     

    There is a reason that gaming companies are trying to close this hole. AV is not alone in using this method. The easier #4 is the more abusable the whole system is.

     

  • RyrothRyroth Brecksville, OHPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by xpiher
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by joshbaby03

    http://i45.tinypic.com/1zdykab.jpg

     

    Today I was banned for requesting PayPal to seek a refund from AV on my behalf due to their product not being as advertised, as well as not having any discernable release date.  I just want ya'll to know that they will ban you if you try to get your money back in any way possible, and more than likely you will not get anything back in the end.  This is fraud in my book, and I hope that MMORPG.com and other sites cover this...I don't know where to send this information so that it gets on the front page, but it needs to be.

     

    Jed

    I doubt you ever get a refund and i cant really understand why you got that ban?

    In my eyes Aventurine is a corrupt company, remember in Darkfall 1 when Aventurine changed the rules for sieges after a siege were lost by a Zerg that on forums then threatened to rage quit. What happened was that the server went down and the result of the siege was not saved. Aventurine then manually transfered a town the Zerg never won ingame to that Zerg against their own written down rulesetting. Rules were that developers would never interfere with the score of a server down. I bet Aventurine had some players in that whining Zerg.

    There is also alot of rumors that Aventurine even though they knew a certain guild were duping they didnt interfere cause they made such good advertising promos for the game. That guild had the most expensive boat when the Zergs didnt even have the material for the smallest. 

    The duping guild then made a promo video on sea warfare and i bet Aventurine saw it as a good advertising video that would bring more players to the game.

    If you as a player want fair gameplay and no interference from developers then stay away from Aventurine.

     

     

     

    Umm no. Stop spouting BS please thanks. The difference between this siege and previous sieges was that siege had an actual CONCLUSION. The other sieges didn't have an actual outcome. 

    BS, the rulesetting was that developers would never interfere with the outcome of a server down.

    That written rulesetting ment nothing when the whining Zerg threatened to ragequit on forums.

    I could have understand if they first changed the rules for sieges and then acted.

    Now they broke their own rules to please the Zerg.

    And knowing about the mercs duping and doing nothing is another good example. Seeing their hi-end boat when nobody else had more then a raft is like saying we know theyre cheating but we choose not to act cause Ripper give us some good advertising youtube videos.

    They even posted that sea warfare video here on MMORPG.com.

     

     

    This happened years ago and  you're still talking about this? This was one siege out of hundreds. Let it go...

    I wouldn't say AV is corrupt but they are a horrible company.

    Everyone can agree that the Mercs exploited quite alot and AV didn't do much to stop it. But almost every person in the game cheated in their own way.

    I was pissed that nothing was done but to hold a grudge this long is unbelievable

     

    Back to the actual topic, if i had a nickel for everytime i bought a game and wasn't impressed. I would be a wealthy fellow. But I never demanded my money back.. it's only 15$...

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