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Combat sucks... why so much hype?



  • FusionFusion VaasaMember Posts: 1,370 Uncommon

    You win some, you lose some.

    Most MMO's with good/great combat system lack alot on other areas of the game

    AA has tons of stuff beyond combat, that more than enough makes it up for me. I've not tried it yet, so i can't really comment on the combat, other than it seems like pretty basic tab-target buttonmash. That i can forgive, if the rest of the content is as awesome as it seems to be.


    I rather have mediocre combat and awesome everything else, than have awesome combat and mediocre everything else.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAMember Posts: 3,574 Uncommon

    Not everyone is looking for action type combat.  I came to the mmo genre to escape that kind of gameplay and give my hands a rest after years of hardcore fps.  There is also something to be said for a more strategic and tactical approach, as opposed to reflexive gaming like Quake style combat.  Of course, Quake style or action style combat can be strategic and tactical also, but it's different and not everyone has the reflexes.


    I think Arceage game design harkens to the past where we find this style of combat, and players from the old days will find it familiar and comfortable.  The newer, younger players bring fresh energy to the genre, but they may be disappointed that it isn't an action game hybrid like some mmo's are trying to be to pull players away from other genres.


    Probably this game and Repopulation are the two games I'm interested most in right now.


  • DartmedDartmed AthensMember Posts: 36
    Originally posted by pwain
    Originally posted by Majinash
    Originally posted by Yalexy

    Imagine EvE Online sized battles but with Freelancer-controls... it would be nothing but a big mess.  

    I would pay SO much for something as deep as EVE online that played like freelancer.  They wouldn't be able to take my money fast enough.

    couldn't agree more


  • RazeeksterRazeekster GlobMember Posts: 2,561 Uncommon

    If combat is your deciding factor than I have zero respect. There are literally tons of features in ArcheAge that no MMO has ever had. You people need to stop being so agrivating. There are NOT that many action combat MMO's in existance so stop acting like it's the new rage! It's NOT!


    What are some open world MMO's that have action combat in the West... Oh yeah just TERA and Raiderz. Guess what? Those two games don't do well enough that other companies are going, "Oh look, better add action combat to our games too!" Tab targetting is here to stay. ArcheAge has so many other features anyways, so like I said, if your concern is only about the combat than I'm kind of glad you're not going to be playing it because it's clear you couldn't appreciate a great game if it stared you in the face.


  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonMember Posts: 3,219 Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by MumboJumbo
    The combat itself looks to be a lot to do with shuffling a deck (skills-based). So that gives some background. I'd like to see vids of different builds combating and seeing how the deck choices interact... /see if youtube can divulge something.

    Combat is not that usual tab-based, its a tweaked version of it with real physics and a very good obstacle detection system, for example a ranged class will have a hard time in a dense forest, you can use the environment to hide behind objects from attacks, there are lots of skill to be used, and a 10-15 level difference doesn't mean that the higher level one will win.

    More skills needed to play this game then for example GW2 (which some say that its an action based MMO, for me its more like a scripted version of tab-targetting), but less then for example DF2.0 or Eve.

    It takes the skill - just a different type of skill. DF 2.0 is basically the same as GW2 can't say about EVE - started playing and left because most of the players I knew were AFK playing (yeah - that is a great MMO).  Seeing the combat films from Archage looks like a speeded up version of D and D (dice rolls).

    I've got to say the ability to dodge projectiles that are slower than an arrow is definitely something I like to see in a fantasy mmorpg: It fits and adds some adrenaline reaction to move or at least choose how much you expose yourself. I'd like for the map to indicate cover-% as well so you can move along the lang hugging cover types... It's all TT stuff that is so fun, why not in mmorpgs?! Sounds like AA does have some of that re: trees. :)

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinMember Posts: 1,056 Uncommon

    Here's another thing with FPS-controls, which I didnt post before, but what I was evaluating with lot's of people in other discussions about FPS and MMOs.

    Server-client communication and server-side calculation.

    FPS-games traditionally have client-side calculations, and that's the reason for the tons of cheating and hacking going on there. Wallhacks, speedhacks, aimbots... you name it is only possible with client-side calculations, where only the result gets communicated to the server and the server then sends this data to all other clients.

    In a classical MMO however, all calculations are made server-side, which makes all the cheating/hacking of your typical FPS-games allmost impossible. Additionally, server-side calculations increase the latency, as you only send a command to the server and this command has to be checked and verified, then calculated and then the result is send to the clients. So you see the result of your command some 200+ miliseconds later, which is rather bad for a FPS.

    Especially in MMOs with lots of PvP going on, I prefer the server-side calculations, as it reduces the cheating and hacking, but on the same time it makes FPS-gameplay unenjoyable due to it's high latencies.

    That's why I prefer tab-target combat based more on tactics and setups instead of the cheat and hack-fest of twitchbased client-side FPS-games.

    Look at Darkfall, Mortal Online and now Planetside 2... everywhere there's massive complaints about cheating and hacking and the devs can't fight it very well, as they don't have as much control as with server-sided oldschool tab-target MMOs.

  • OtomoxOtomox HoooooMember Posts: 303
    If combat were that much important everyone would play TERA and not WoW like mmorpgs.
  • KingKaioKingKaio Lufkin, TXMember Posts: 48
    I kind of agree with the OP. I wouldn't say the combat in AA sucks but it's definitely different and it gets complimented for it. Meanwhile FFXIV is bashed for not being a WoW clone and said to have "boring slow paced" combat. The MMO community is just odd to me.

    btw I was not wow'ed by the combat that I've seen so far. AA looks like it has so much more to offer though.


  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Unknown, AZMember Posts: 293 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    If combat is your deciding factor than I have zero respect. There are literally tons of features in ArcheAge that no MMO has ever had.

    Sorry but you're wrong many of these features were taken from "true" mmorpgs like Uo and SWG. WoW completely ruined and made mmorpgs generic. Only now are developers realizing we want more features like full on crafting and building our house. We want to take over a kingdom in conquest and rule over our subjects. We want to have huge impacts on the game world.

    Yes the combat is a bit of a letdown for me since I love darkfall online combat, but darkfall is simply an arena pvp game with no sandbox features and everything revolves around pvp. I want something more unforunately and hopefully despite the combat archeage will grant me that.


  • SinakuSinaku Austin, TXMember Posts: 503 Uncommon

    I wasn't aware combat was the only part of a game.

  • SimsejensenSimsejensen Lyngby, DCMember Posts: 51 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios
     I'm currently dedicated to Mortal Online and it's pretty much the opposite of ArcheAge. It has amazing combat and huge adrenaline rush and all..

    Wait, i didnt expect that.

     Do you really think MO has amazing combat?

  • FusionFusion VaasaMember Posts: 1,370 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Simsejensen
    Originally posted by Celusios
     I'm currently dedicated to Mortal Online and it's pretty much the opposite of ArcheAge. It has amazing combat and huge adrenaline rush and all..

    Wait, i didnt expect that.

     Do you really think MO has amazing combat?

    I think he is serious :D

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundMember Posts: 432

    Tab Targeting is about aquiring a target.

    Whenever that target is required for a skill -
    Whenever you can't move during skills-
    Whenever you smash abilities instead of carefully choosing them-

    In short, using the Tab Key for Targeting says nothing about a combat or skill system.

    This makes the OP look ignorant to call it out "sucking" or "WoW Style". But what would have given this trollthreat some substance would have been why using tab is an issue for him.

    The truth is, there is no revolution every mmo is a mix. You could throw Bombs in WoW 2005 without a Tab Target. Priests in TERA lock on Target you. GW2 even have rooting attacks on certain weapons.

    Of course no one of the "new hype" wants to hear that. And honestly how is FPS aiming with gentle HUGE [__________] hitboxes and AOE ground skills more "skill"? It's different, not better.

    MO combat is any good? What the.....okay archeage has the most blant boring tab target WOW combat you could imagine, it's that bad. Stay away. Please. :)

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Maplewood, NJMember Posts: 1,102 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    Because auto target fighting can be skill based without you realizing it?

    Take Age of Wushu for example.  It uses an auto target fighting system that uses a rock-paper-scissors style combat (attack beats feignt, block/counter beats attack, feignt beats block) that I have never seen before (I heard that it was implemented in The Matrix Online, but since I never played it I can't confirm or deny this).

    Also Guild Wars 2 uses an auto-target/skill based hybrid system where you still need to lock onto enemies to attack them, but still can move around and dodge attacks in a skill based way.

    If auto targeting is such a gamebreaker for you, then just don't play ArcheAge.  There are plenty of non-targeting skill based MMOs coming out this year, many of them (likely) coming out before ArcheAge, such as Neverwinter, Elder Scrolls Online, and Phantasy Star Online 2.

    Finally, just because you don't like the combat, doesn't mean the game isn't good or undeserving of the hype.  World of Warcraft is still widely considered as the gold-standard of MMOs, but it uses a recycled non skill based auto-targeting system.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • DeathIsCloseDeathIsClose WienMember Posts: 23
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    Guildwars 2 combat sucks also why so many players...

    Seriously its one of the worst i played and the combat isnt new at all its old style press buttons..


    Tera combat was pretty nice but yea.. the Host is pretty bad ( at least the EU one ).

    And its not only because of the Combat its building conquer everything is kinda in the game and i see this of a start of alot more games based on this one.



  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILMember Posts: 386

    Well i can relate somewhat to the OP's post.

    From what ive seen, and people ive talked to who have played it it seems to be a very standard quest hub themepark.

    Only difference is the fluff added is more in depth than we are use to. 


    The heart of this game is a quest hub themepark with instanced sieges, nothing new there.  Yeah you can grow stuff and play house, but that is fluff.  The meat and bones of this game is very standard issue.

    I think people are very desperate to grasp on to a game that promises to be groundbreaking ect, which is why we see constantly the overhype, honeymoon, depression, rage cycle related to games as they move from development, beta, launch, to downward spiral.


    I remember when this game first appeared on this list.  It was hailed as a sandbox.  Its not a sandbox at all.  It has some stuff that would fit right into one though, but the basic game within AA is very standard.


    Also it seems to have lost a significant amount of hype following as the western markets are not getting it for some time.  Given the attitude from the developers towards this market, i would expect it to severly lag behind the asian and russian markets in terms of updates and fixes as well...poor support basically.  Not to mention the "they are all rich over there" style cash shops.  Does anyone even know what types of items will be in their cash shop yet?  Seems thats a pretty significant detail with games like this.


    I hope the game turns out great, i just reserve a lot of skeptism towards it based on what ive heard personally, and watching how they are treating the market that im a part of.  We dont even know who will publish it here, and again, theres a huge chance for that decision to break the game, like if it goes to gpotato or...well...really cant think of a single F2P publisher id want to give money to.

  • ValentinaValentina Los Angeles, CAMember Posts: 1,748 Uncommon

    I want to play AA because of the features, while action combat would be cool, I really want them to focus on the sandbox features, as well as the traditional themepark features making a true hybrid. I want to build my house and decorate it, I also want to quest and do dungeons, I want to explore the world and enjoy the in-game cultures/lore, and go on the expeditions with my friends, and sieges...Combat isn't really the most important thing to me, but I understand concern over it. I love GW2's combat,  because it's instant but that's all I really care about with any combat mechanic in an MMO. I want it to feel fluid, and well done for what it is.

    I played TERA, and it had lot's of potential but they failed pretty badly at making it a game for the long term.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonMember Posts: 709 Uncommon
    @ Crunchy222

    I'm thinking the same thing. I had high hopes about AA but the more I read about it the more I feel it's a pretty standard themepark at its core, with some fluff added on the side.

    People like to portray it as the Sandbox Saviour, but what exactly is sandbox/freeform about it?

    The skill system and leveling seems pretty standard with questhubs and linear progression.

    I haven't heard anything about whether the economy is player-driven or not.

    The guild warfare/territory control seems pretty non-dynamic with instanced sieges and so on.

    As for multiple viable playstyles I'm not sure but it seems to be mainly combat oriented with some fluff on the side.

    Perhaps someone could explain what makes AA so special and hype-worthy. Sure, it has a lot of cool features but as a whole it hardly seems as epochal or genre-changing as some people claim.
  • c0existc0exist Round Rock, TXMember Posts: 196 Uncommon
    game looks promising but you cant tell alot from a few youtube videos.  Ill definitely check it out when/if it hits NA.  If its what it looks like there is plenty of longevity there.
  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloMember Posts: 2,430 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nacario
    Theres a big diff from actually trying it out yourself and watching someone else figthing. Perhaps you have tried it, but I havent - and yet it feels good. Especially now collision works with spells/abilities on target. Tab target combat can be done if done right.

    TAB targetting is removing most PVP skills from a game and can never be good.

    This is also the reason why i will never play this game.

    But then again i dont think they're targetting competitive PVP players.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILMember Posts: 2,661 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    If everything about AA turns out to be true, believe me my good man, combat will be the least of my worries.

    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILMember Posts: 2,661 Uncommon
    Originally posted by LlexX
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by LlexX
    ...Indeed the game is challenging, more then the usual MMOs.

    Sorry but their are other MMO's that are just as challenging, EVE and Age Of Wushu to name two mmos.

    Of course there are... thats why i said challenging more then the USUAL, in AA a casual gamer won't be hitting max level in just a few days, and getting the best available gear after a few weeks.

    If AA delivers on a quality immersive sandbox experience, a casual player won't care about max level or gear. Not even after a few months.

    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • paulythebpaulytheb Wauwatosa, WIMember Posts: 286 Uncommon

    I would be perfectly happy if I could avoid combat entirely and concentrate on getting a business up and running instead.


    Shipbuilder sounds like fun.  "Pauly's Ocean Emporium" all of your sailing needs under one roof !

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • OnomasOnomas USAMember Posts: 1,129 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Celusios
    This game is nothing but recycled non skill based auto target fighting. Why do you people hype it up so much?

    If everything about AA turns out to be true, believe me my good man, combat will be the least of my worries.

    This. So many people want just pvp or just a story. A good mmorpg will have it all and keep you coming back for more. If AA holds true and delivers it doesnt matter. The mechanics, features, and tools are there for a good fun game with longevity. Something we havent seen in years. FINALY! Dont get me wrong, i enjoy pvp, but im a crafter and explore by heart.

  • FilburFilbur Member Posts: 149 Uncommon
    Don't get your hopes and expectations up too high. ArcheAge is still a run-of-the-mill themepark MMO at heart, with a massive pvp part at the end. It has some nice features, but they get old pretty fast.
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