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This looks like a scam. Read and decide for yourself.

taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352

Update: Acording to Mr. Appleton 70 votes over 2 days constitutes a general approval of making the game Subscription based.

"Since then, we got a general approval from the backers that a $10 sub would be ok, which re-opened the doors to Hero" - Mr. Appleton

 

Update: Mr. Appletone refuses to answer two simple questions that could clear up a lot of fears from his backers and people hoping this game will eventually become reality. He has, in this thread tried to avoid the question by changing the focus from him to me basically refusing to make a statement.

Do you consider making a second kickstarter?

Assuming that you do a second kickstarter and it fails, will the game still be made?

 

Update: Mr. Appleton has graced us with another post not exactly answering these 2 simple questions with a yes or no but i think we got an answer now. You decide from this quote:

"Will the game get finished without the 2nd campaign?

Well, yes, that is what I'm trying to say. When I think of Alpha, I think of a game near completed with bugs and such that will need to be ironed out. I'd like to have the game as close to ready as possible by Alpha, BEFORE any additional funds are brought in." - Mr. Appleton

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

 

A brief history of Greed Monger (click on the dates to read his original posts):

September 9 2012: Jason Appleton discovers Unity game engine, discovers a new mission in life -- he is going to make a really cool RPG game! Although he's never actually done any coding or stuff. But he's done, like, some HTML. Experienced Unity developers try (unsuccessfully) to try to talk him into starting small, and actually learning about how to use the program and starting on smaller more attainable projects first, rather than make a huge RPG his very first project.

September 10, 2012Unity is just so cool!!!

September 10, 2012: Jason Appleton decides to put together a team of people who understand maybe a bit better than him, how to actually make a game.  Gets a little antsy when Unity moderators stall on posting his thread, as they explain "it comes off as the typical 'I'm the ideas guy and need a team to do the actual work for me'. These types of threads are rarely approved these days." But they approve it anyway. He actually posts a lot of these threads, because this is all so exciting....

September 13, 2012:  Jason Appleton continues his quest of actually finding someone who can make his game for him in Unity.

October 14, 2012: Despite the advice not to start buying lots of assets for some future game when he doesn't really understand how to program in Unity yet, Jason Appleton starts buying art assets (but has problems importing them into his Unity program). Oh help!

October 14, 2012: Jason Appleton decides he probably better hire someone else to make his Kickstarter demo video for him, as he is still struggling with how to make all this stuff really look like an actual game. He states at that stage he has a potential investor, not a gamer but an old guy "worth millions" and "like a father to me" so he is not the least bit worried about getting his dream funded, he just needs someone who can make his ideas look like ... you know .... an actual project. So he can then sell his ideas to the people who actually have money. And, um, talent.

October 23, 2012: Jason Appleton types up a REAL PRESS RELEASE announcing his new Kickstarter promotion for his new groundbreaking online MMORPG! It will be JUST LIKE Ultima Online! (Except that was of course designed by real game developers). He sidesteps questions from more experienced Unity developers, on whether he's actually found a way to cut down trees (apparently Unity isn't very friendly about stuff like that.)  

November 12, 2012: Oh -- it would probably help if he could find an actual World Builder for his open world RPG.... don't worry, he is sure to find someone.

November 13, 2012: Flush with victory from an early KS success (which some notice, attracts an unusual number of backers making $2000 pledges right off the bat, leading some to question whether this is similar to his buying up Facebook likes in bulk only to have them all vanish a week later; ie will all those big pledges really be there at the end or are they promotional gimmicks to look like the project is a solidly backed one?), Jason Appleton announces he is going to be buying up A LOT!!! more premade generic medieval game assets, so anyone he hasn't yet bought from, should start adding them to the asset store, as he now has money to burn...

November 18, 2012: oh but maybe he should suddenly switch his game engine? Does this other one maybe look even better?

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Mr. Appleton want's to become Govenor of Ohio ( click me ) Of cause by hiring people doing it for him. Naturally!

Mr. Appleton is going to be selling sexual enhancement pills and is learning how to make iOS and mobile games, also C++. ( read the "I just have hobbies post" )

"I’m about to become a distributor for some Sexual Enhancement pills that work like crazy! I’m also teaching myself Objective-C programming while learning the Apple SDK and Interface Builder to create my own iPhone apps."

_________________________________________________________________________________________

 

This person clearly has ZERO management skills or experience in game development. He runs out of money now and want's to start a 2nd kickstarter funding by selling more imaginary land plots.

If they have the skills to pull this entire thing off, they have not yet demonstrated those.  He had to hire someone to make the demo video for them (they couldn't even do that part themselves) and although he says he already has a team fully assembled and "most of the work done," as of yesterday he is still trying to hire people competent to do the actual programming for crafting, skill progression, UI, combat, world design, housing, and all the most basic of the game features, as all they can actually do themselves at this stage in time is make a staged scene for the videos using Unity3D +  generic assets. Why does he need to hire people who can actually program if they already have most of the work already completed?

Even their logo art and npc models are simply generic store assets, which they seem to be showcasing on various sites are "their" level of graphic detail. Here is where they actually got all those assets in their pictures:


http://u3d.as/conten...val-citizen/2Ez
http://u3d.as/conten...eval-farmer/2qZ
http://forum.unity3d...gon-Model/page2
http://u3d.as/conten...ruction-kit/1CN
http://www.the3dstud..._product=279850

 

 

 

I am baffled...

Tagged:

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

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Comments

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYMember Posts: 3,675 Uncommon
    Very funny read. I never heard of this game. Where can I see this tech demo? I'm intrigued just to see what its like now lol.

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  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBMember Posts: 1,228 Uncommon

    im kinda baffled why people are so pissy about them buying premade artwork and models. :/ several large companys have been known to do that and as an indie it seems cost effective for a smaller budget to buy existing items like you would on garry's mod or such. 

     

    while alot of this stuff seems shady.. i wont out right bash the game cause of its current art or 3d work that may or may not be bought. as long as it functions correctly and isnt full of bugs i dont care :/ 

    now if they buy premades that are buggy as fk or just plain horrible then ya would be a tad miffed rather not learn they paid 10k for minecraft graphic trees :/ or the like..

     

    as for is it vaporware or scam who knows. im not a backer as i dont believe in crowd funding that is being done now days so only thing i lose is personal time reading threads about it lol

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  • HeretiqueHeretique Member Posts: 1,307 Uncommon
    Cash Grab MMO's, it's a reality. Doesn't mean this one is but I like saying Cash Grab MMO's.

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYMember Posts: 3,675 Uncommon
    The only MMO I tried to fund was Dark Solstice and it didn't come close :(. I was so sad, I've been waiting for that game for years!

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  • TuchakaTuchaka san diego, CAMember Posts: 468 Uncommon

    One other thing that just occured to me on day 1 of this games launch ( assuming that ever happens )  he said in his video i saw it on kickstarter that when the game launches there will be no structures at all, just people and mobs....we'll if your whole game is scam wouldn't  having basically a blank slate of a game be a good way to fool people ?

     

     

     

     

  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352

     

    Please don't get me wrong, i am not bashing this game. How could i, since there is really no game just a few pictures and videos made with default assets and demo projects of both Unity and Hero Engine.

    Seriously, this person took the kickstarter money and bought Unity licenses, Unity Assets and hired random people through forums.

    Nothing wrong with that BUT NOW they change to Hero engine so all these Assets and the money are wasted.

    That's why he is looking to sell more land and make a new Kickstarter Campaign. How can people take this serious?

    I am just genuinely in shock how people can give money to something like this?

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

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  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Very funny read. I never heard of this game. Where can I see this tech demo? I'm intrigued just to see what its like now lol.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2jRUdhSmSn8

    I don't think this needs any comment.

    This interview is very amusing too.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/appleton/greed-monger-a-crafting-focused-sandbox-mmorpg/posts/350124

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

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  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIMember Posts: 1,238

    Some people are just really, really desperate for a good medieval fantasy sandbox MMORPG I guess.

    For me, there aren't enough red flags in the world to cover how many this whole thing is waving. Projects like this and Pathfinder are prime examples of how out-of-control crowd funding has become. There's a reason why investors don't want to back things like this, people.

  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by Rednecksith
    Some people are just really, really desperate for a good medieval fantasy sandbox MMORPG I guess. For me, there aren't enough red flags in the world to cover how many this whole thing is waving. Projects like this and Pathfinder are prime examples of how out-of-control crowd funding has become. There's a reason why investors don't want to back things like this, people.

    Yeah, Pathfinder is another one i am keeping an eye on. The difference however being that these people have years of experience in the Pen and Paper RPG world and have a structure working environment with professional Artists. Nothing is from prefabs or bought assets and i think they have made their own engine (but i might be wrong).

    I still don't like how Pathfinder tries to squeeze more and more money out of Kickstarter capmaigns essentially saying: "If you do not fund this next campaign all the money you already gave us is gone since we won't finish the game".

    That is essentially what it comes down to and i would not be surprised if at the 3rd campaign for the final product, which i am almost 100% sure will come, they will fail to get the funding and just scrap the whole project getting away with stealing money from the first 2 kickstarters.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • JamesPJamesP Portland, MEMember Posts: 479 Uncommon

    Ok there is really nothing I can say to change your guys mind now that you have made it up about us and our Game I'm ok with that. We win some battles and loose others, that's just the nature of the beast.

    Just quickly to let you know where we stand though YES it's already been debated that we bought models from the Unity3D Asset store. Those assets are mostly FBX models. Now that we switched over to HeroEngine we are now in the process of Importing those Models into 3ds max or Maya (Depending on which one our Developers have that are working on it) and then exporting the models into Hero's Model Format. Most of the assets will be compatable with HeroEngine so they aren't wasting money by our switching.

    Yes it takes time to do. But we are getting our assets into Hero and more importantly we ARE moving forward. 

    I really hope you guys will set aside your judgment of our game until we are ready to showcase the game and then decide from there based on the finished product! If not though we fully understand and wish you all the best of luck looking for your next MMO!

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive
    Greed Monger

    http://www.greedmonger.net/forum/index.php

  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Ok there is really nothing I can say to change your guys mind now that you have made it up about us and our Game I'm ok with that. We win some battles and loose others, that's just the nature of the beast. Just quickly to let you know where we stand though YES it's already been debated that we bought models from the Unity3D Asset store. Those assets are mostly FBX models. Now that we switched over to HeroEngine we are now in the process of Importing those Models into 3ds max or Maya (Depending on which one our Developers have that are working on it) and then exporting the models into Hero's Model Format. Most of the assets will be compatable with HeroEngine so they aren't wasting money by our switching. Yes it takes time to do. But we are getting our assets into Hero and more importantly we ARE moving forward.  I really hope you guys will set aside your judgment of our game until we are ready to showcase the game and then decide from there based on the finished product! If not though we fully understand and wish you all the best of luck looking for your next MMO!

     

    So you need a lot more money now to buy 3ds Max and Maya licenses, not the cheapest on the market i may add, plus writing import/export scripts for said programs.

    You also need to setup an asset pipeline to the Hero engine, which is incredibly awkward due to how Hero engine works, i do not envy you.

    You should have gone with the Unreal Engine from the start, because all these issues and the biggest one: netcode optimization, can just not be done in Unity or Hero Engine. Assuming you have someone with good C++ and Assembler skills and knowledge in predictive netcode optimization to reduce latency.

     

    I am also wondering what happened to your plans to run for govenor of Ohio? Same approach as with this "game" you are developing:

    "I would like to establish a team of the most intelligent and moral people I can find, lock ourselves in a room and not come out until every major issue has been addressed and resolved and turn the world around."

    Hire some people to do the work for you since you obviously seem to have none of the talents required. You may have other talents though, i don't know that.

    "It’s 2011 and a new beginning with new goals and ideas. I’ve decided that I’d like to run for Governor of Ohio and actively seek to make changes to this state and hopefully shed light on some issues that plague me regularly. So, herein you will find a variety of posts relating to this venture as well as random posts focused on the MMA Big Show and the Big Show Gym.

    Why would I want to run for Governor of Ohio?
    Because I’ve had enough! I’m tired of career politicians who get caught up in the daily grind and seeking only to serve themselves, especially in todays economic crisis. There are too many issues falling through the cracks that are in desperate need of attention. Too many politicians are groomed from their youth surrounded by money and power while learning how to cover their misgivings while also enjoying a lack of accountability."

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • SkymourneSkymourne Ruston, LAMember Posts: 371 Uncommon
    Oh my this is getting interesting.  How was any of the OP "made up" btw?  There were links to solid information.  I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are simply attempting to do something you are not qualified to do.  Kickstarters are great and all, however people are tired of getting scammed, and this is certainly shady, no matter how decent your intentions are.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember Posts: 8,839 Rare
    Back again huh OP? I don't know shit about hte game, but you sure don't seem trust worthy.
  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Back again huh OP? I don't know shit about hte game, but you sure don't seem trust worthy.

    I am sorry but if you are trying to get this thread closed by starting a flame war then i can assure you you won't get that from me. Try someone else.

    Besides that i have no idea what your post even means, i am not asking anyone to trust me. All i did was post some links with facts about this games Designer and asked how people can fall for a scam like this. 

    Yes, in my opinion this is a scam. You might have a different opinion, but such is the nature of humanity, we do not agree all the time.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYMember Posts: 3,675 Uncommon
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Ok there is really nothing I can say to change your guys mind now that you have made it up about us and our Game I'm ok with that. We win some battles and loose others, that's just the nature of the beast. Just quickly to let you know where we stand though YES it's already been debated that we bought models from the Unity3D Asset store. Those assets are mostly FBX models. Now that we switched over to HeroEngine we are now in the process of Importing those Models into 3ds max or Maya (Depending on which one our Developers have that are working on it) and then exporting the models into Hero's Model Format. Most of the assets will be compatable with HeroEngine so they aren't wasting money by our switching. Yes it takes time to do. But we are getting our assets into Hero and more importantly we ARE moving forward.  I really hope you guys will set aside your judgment of our game until we are ready to showcase the game and then decide from there based on the finished product! If not though we fully understand and wish you all the best of luck looking for your next MMO!

     

    So you need a lot more money now to buy 3ds Max and Maya licenses, not the cheapest on the market i may add, plus writing import/export scripts for said programs.

    You also need to setup an asset pipeline to the Hero engine, which is incredibly awkward due to how Hero engine works, i do not envy you.

    You should have gone with the Unreal Engine from the start, because all these issues and the biggest one: netcode optimization, can just not be done in Unity or Hero Engine. Assuming you have someone with good C++ and Assembler skills and knowledge in predictive netcode optimization to reduce latency.

     

    I am also wondering what happened to your plans to run for govenor of Ohio? Same approach as with this "game" you are developing:

    "I would like to establish a team of the most intelligent and moral people I can find, lock ourselves in a room and not come out until every major issue has been addressed and resolved and turn the world around."

    Hire some people to do the work for you since you obviously seem to have none of the talents required. You may have other talents though, i don't know that.

    "It’s 2011 and a new beginning with new goals and ideas. I’ve decided that I’d like to run for Governor of Ohio and actively seek to make changes to this state and hopefully shed light on some issues that plague me regularly. So, herein you will find a variety of posts relating to this venture as well as random posts focused on the MMA Big Show and the Big Show Gym.

    Why would I want to run for Governor of Ohio?
    Because I’ve had enough! I’m tired of career politicians who get caught up in the daily grind and seeking only to serve themselves, especially in todays economic crisis. There are too many issues falling through the cracks that are in desperate need of attention. Too many politicians are groomed from their youth surrounded by money and power while learning how to cover their misgivings while also enjoying a lack of accountability."

    umm...correct me if I'm wrong. But the guy who you are quoting isnt Jason Appleton...his username is JamesP suggesting his name is at least James.

    image
  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by Fendel84M umm...correct me if I'm wrong. But the guy who you are quoting isnt Jason Appleton...his username is JamesP suggesting his name is at least James.

    I don't know because during the kickstarter campaign he used different alt accounts. Also he did not identify himself as to who he is. He might be one of the Developers, or an alt, or someone random.

    Who knows really... in any case i had a good chuckle at the governor thing and the sex pill distributor post aptly named "I just have hobbies…" was awesome too.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYMember Posts: 3,675 Uncommon
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Fendel84M umm...correct me if I'm wrong. But the guy who you are quoting isnt Jason Appleton...his username is JamesP suggesting his name is at least James.

    I don't know because during the kickstarter campaign he used different alt accounts. Also he did not identify himself as to who he is. He might be one of the Developers, or an alt, or someone random. Who knows really...

    Seems like a different guy, one of the coders on the team. Thats why he actually knows code...at least that does make sense.

    If this game actually comes out, and all the land isn't already owned from IRL money. I might give it a shot. But it sounds like it might just be a bunch of people paying real money for in game land. Which doesn't sound like much fun.

    image
  • Dantae87Dantae87 Camloops, ABMember Posts: 166
    MMO players will fund anything they think is good even though in the end it will either turn out like shit or end up having to pay a sub fee even if they donated 5000 to a company to get them going....kickstarters r all scams to me. If you cant come up with the money like every other gaming company did in the past then dont bother trying to produce a game....

    image

  • JayFiveAliveJayFiveAlive Arvada, COMember Posts: 555 Uncommon
    Originally posted by taus01

    I still don't like how Pathfinder tries to squeeze more and more money out of Kickstarter capmaigns essentially saying: "If you do not fund this next campaign all the money you already gave us is gone since we won't finish the game".

    I am as skeptical as you, but Pathfinder never said that they wouldn't finish the game if it doesn't get backed/succeeds. They claim this 2nd kickstarter is simply to help them get extra funds to finish the game a year and a half-ish early. They have said over and over again that they will make PFO no matter what happens with their KS... just thought I should point that out :P

  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by Dantae87
    MMO players will fund anything they think is good even though in the end it will either turn out like shit or end up having to pay a sub fee even if they donated 5000 to a company to get them going....kickstarters r all scams to me. If you cant come up with the money like every other gaming company did in the past then dont bother trying to produce a game....

    I would not be so hasty to call them all scams. There are quite a few out there that have unique ideas, skills and already polished games. 

    But to sort the dirt rom the diamonds is not easy sometimes.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by JayFiveAlive
    Originally posted by taus01

    I still don't like how Pathfinder tries to squeeze more and more money out of Kickstarter capmaigns essentially saying: "If you do not fund this next campaign all the money you already gave us is gone since we won't finish the game".

    I am as skeptical as you, but Pathfinder never said that they wouldn't finish the game if it doesn't get backed/succeeds. They claim this 2nd kickstarter is simply to help them get extra funds to finish the game a year and a half-ish early. They have said over and over again that they will make PFO no matter what happens with their KS... just thought I should point that out :P

    Yeah, good point. I remain skeptical though. Promises are broken as often as they are made. I think that the whole crowd funding is still in its teething process and it needs time to be refined. Kickstarter already changed some things and its surely not the end.

    It's not only games, mind you. There are a lot of Dead on Arrival ( or even before ) hardware projects like the Ouya, that still have to proof that the trust given to them was not in vain.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYMember Posts: 3,675 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dantae87
    MMO players will fund anything they think is good even though in the end it will either turn out like shit or end up having to pay a sub fee even if they donated 5000 to a company to get them going....kickstarters r all scams to me. If you cant come up with the money like every other gaming company did in the past then dont bother trying to produce a game....

    Well i think the climate is a lot different than it used to be. You can't wow investors so easy by just saying "Massive Online Roleplaying Experience!" anymore. The market is a lot bigger, and the economy isnt the best. So naturally investors aren't taking risks.

    Kickstarter is great for letting the fans decide if they want to take the risk. If one investor wont give them a million dollars on a chance at making more. But a million fans will give a dollar for the hopes of a great game. Then that is their risk to take and pretty cool if it actually pans out.

    I do think there is a lot of abuse though, multiple kickstarters for one, and just everybody looking for a cash grab now.

    I wouldn't mind seeing fans starting their own kickstarters. "Raise a million dollars to get housing in WoW" that would be priceless. Here you go Blizzard, now you can afford it.

    image
  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIMember Posts: 1,223 Uncommon

    Humm.. OK so you had Unity and went and bought a 99 dollar Hero Engine. WHY?

     

    Now I suppose you're going to make this what seamless open world or something?

     

  • taus01taus01 MunichMember Posts: 1,352
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by Fendel84M umm...correct me if I'm wrong. But the guy who you are quoting isnt Jason Appleton...his username is JamesP suggesting his name is at least James.

    I don't know because during the kickstarter campaign he used different alt accounts. Also he did not identify himself as to who he is. He might be one of the Developers, or an alt, or someone random. Who knows really...

    Seems like a different guy, one of the coders on the team. Thats why he actually knows code...at least that does make sense.

    If this game actually comes out, and all the land isn't already owned from IRL money. I might give it a shot. But it sounds like it might just be a bunch of people paying real money for in game land. Which doesn't sound like much fun.

    I do apologize if it is a different guy, just ignore it and take it as a nice little information about your employer.

    The only concept this game has is to sell land, much like Project Entropia which is a pyramid scheme game. New players feed the rich players and eventually quit after spending a few bucks because you can never reach the top or even profitable areas anymore.

    People in games like that can only make money if someone else looses money. With the proposed 15% tax the developers want from re-selling property, they have to sell a lot of land plots and also tax crafting and items to make this even remotely profitable. It's simple math and if you would make a business plan you see very quickly that this revenue stream is very hard to establish and maintain.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBMember Posts: 1,228 Uncommon

    wait so they switched to hero?? from unity which is a tad more easier to use if i understand it right O-o

    i must wonder why switch the eng... :/ thats like starting out with unity and going to java... kinda silly to do but i guess as they dont really have much coded up its easier 

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