This must be satire or the first poster is trolling. All those games range from bad to very bad. Not one is a sandbox where you get to make your own way. All are cottoncandy storybook MMOs where they force feed you the "story."
Sandbox or GO HOME.
Sandbox is just one kind of MMO, and not even the dominant kind.
And who should i "go home". I play whatever i like.
By go home I mean don't make pretentious claims that this is the golden age of MMOs because that notion is completely ridiculous. The golden age of MMOs was pre 2004 during the sandbox era. Sandbox MMO is the superior kind of game design because it offers limitless game play with open ended goals that can never really be completed. This is the complete opposite design of GW2 or SWTOR where when you complete the set story the game for all practical purposes is over. That is the problem with story based themeparks for as soon as you complete the story the game ends. It used to be commonly said that you could not ever beat an MMO but that is just not just not true anymore. That was a saying from the time of sandboxes when the possibilites were limitless. YOU can go play whatever game you want but I am not buying any more crappy themepark wow clones.
I say again. GO HOME Mr Themepark.
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
/snip Sandbox MMO is the superior kind of game design because it offers limitless game play with open ended goals that can never really be completed.
/snip
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
I agree that there is no "superior" model when it comes to MMOs because it's pretty evident by now that players like different "styles". It's worth noting however that if you throw out the anomoly (WoW) a solid 500k-ish population of monthly paying subsribers is probably larger than most MMOs out there. Rift may be up there as well and probably SWTOR, I haven't kept up lol.
I bring up "paying subscribers" because not only is the health of the game better but it shows a higher level of popularity per total user base, which is why we consider user numbers in the first place, right? Sandbox may not be a superior design to players but it does tend to accomplish what themeparks have a hard time with: keeping customers long term.
Once great titles sit beached on the shore of ‘no further funding’. Others have gone to the bottom of the sea to feed the corporate octopuses.
The modern MMO is a tin of sardines, ready packed and like every other tin of sardines. It is good value for money and keeps a content shark happy for a month but then he swims on.
MMO’s are never what you get on the tin, the hype would make a Giant Squid blush. MMO’s are cutting back, downsizing, being pulled or cancelled after years of glory.
So if you think this is the golden age of MMO’s, good luck to you and I am sure the Easter Bunny will be making a personal house call with you soon.
There is little question that the best time for MMORPGs was early 2004
EQ was still in its prime
DAoC/UO/AC were all still options
EvE was growing
FFXI
SWG was still a sandbox
You can even stretch it to that moment that WoW and EQ2 launched and the other games were still thriving. But by the end of 2005 even though Vanilla WoW was a great, great game and EQ2 was starting to become one, the early game's population was declining fast and SWG was getting NGE'd.
I will totally agree with the first half of our post. I think up until 2004 was the golden age. WOW/EQ2 and everything since have been MMOs on easy mode. Just my opinion though.
for me, 2003 was the golden age - all mmos prior to 2003 were active too
Pre2001 Everquest, Ultima Online, Lineage
2001 Anarchy Online, Asherons Call, Dark Age of Camelot
2002 Asherons Call 2, Earth & Beyond, Final Fantasy XI
2003 Shadowbane, Eve Online, Lineage II ,Second Life, Star Wars Galaxies, Horizons (now called Istaria)
Once great titles sit beached on the shore of ‘no further funding’. Others have gone to the bottom of the sea to feed the corporate octopuses.
The modern MMO is a tin of sardines, ready packed and like every other tin of sardines. It is good value for money and keeps a content shark happy for a month but then he swims on.
MMO’s are never what you get on the tin, the hype would make a Giant Squid blush. MMO’s are cutting back, downsizing, being pulled or cancelled after years of glory.
Neat imagery!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This must be satire or the first poster is trolling. All those games range from bad to very bad. Not one is a sandbox where you get to make your own way. All are cottoncandy storybook MMOs where they force feed you the "story."
Sandbox or GO HOME.
Xyson and Ryzom are not sand boxes? I think my post makes it clear that this is the Golden age for people who do not want to pay a sub, as there are now many quality games where you do not have to. Of course Eve is a quality game but you have to pay a sub and unless you are into tiny space ships, dots and spread sheets it may be boring for you.
I semi agree with another poster who said 2003 was a golden age because of the excellent but flawed Shadowbane and SWG--but again those were games with a sub.
This must be satire or the first poster is trolling. All those games range from bad to very bad. Not one is a sandbox where you get to make your own way. All are cottoncandy storybook MMOs where they force feed you the "story."
Sandbox or GO HOME.
Why must OP's post be satire or trolling. Is it that hard to understand some people might have other wishes when it comes to games and what they like/enjoy?
Personaly this genre as it is today is a big let down for me, but I aint blind seeing that there are allot of people who enjoy those games I might not.
OP is just expressing his opinion and I am actually glad to see fellow gamers enjoy allot of today's MMO games.
I feel there is lots of room for allot of different type of MMORPG's, yes I feel it's a shame that those of us who love the more sandbox type of MMORPG that there isn't much around. Sure we have a few sandbox games and I am sure some people just play games for it's feature's, but for me it needs to be both immersive and the feature's that make the world. For example if there would be some company that made the greatest sandbox MMORPG but with the Hello Kitty IP, I will pass. Would it be the same game but with a more mature nature, say Age of Conan but then as a sandbox you can count me in.
When it comes to F2P games I feel OP is right, we never had so many F2P games, I actually played some and enjoyed some but for a very limited period pure because I just couldn't play longer because today's games just feel far to limited for my personal taste. But regardless my feeling about them there plenty of gamers enjoying them.
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
In the NA/EU region there are a grand total of 3 MMORPGs that ever reached 500k subs outside of the first month spike
1. WoW
2. EQ, at its peak. This was only about a 6 month period in 2004
3. SWTOR, but this was still part of its release spike.
Thats it, only 3. And 2 of the three just barely.
Trying to insult a game by saying it never got past 500k users is just flat out asinine.
This must be satire or the first poster is trolling. All those games range from bad to very bad. Not one is a sandbox where you get to make your own way. All are cottoncandy storybook MMOs where they force feed you the "story."
Sandbox or GO HOME.
Ohh how those lovely snadbox games have become the go-to "thing" for all MMO gamers. Ohhh wait, WoW says wut? GW2 says wut? League of Legends says wut? Runescape says wut?
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
In the NA/EU region there are a grand total of 3 MMORPGs that ever reached 500k subs outside of the first month spike
1. WoW
2. EQ, at its peak. This was only about a 6 month period in 2004
3. SWTOR, but this was still part of its release spike.
Thats it, only 3. And 2 of the three just barely.
Trying to insult a game by saying it never got past 500k users is just flat out asinine.
Well if you include release spike there are several more (actually EQ never got past 450k, but thats close enough).
AOC I believe had 700k at release, lotro I believe also had around there at release (might be wrong on that one). Warhammer had over a million in it's spike.
And these are just in the west, as far as we know (dificult to tell by region). Worldwide there are several dozen.
and Eve is played worldwide as well, difficult to say how many are in just the NA/EU region.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
We have yet to hit the golden age of gaming. In 5-10 years we will see new games the likes of which would put everything today into the crash bandicoot and adventure quest category. Look forward to it, if your not too old yet.
If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?
Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?
If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
In the NA/EU region there are a grand total of 3 MMORPGs that ever reached 500k subs outside of the first month spike
1. WoW
2. EQ, at its peak. This was only about a 6 month period in 2004
3. SWTOR, but this was still part of its release spike.
Thats it, only 3. And 2 of the three just barely.
Trying to insult a game by saying it never got past 500k users is just flat out asinine.
When someone actually questions the incredible success that CCP has had with EVE, you really have to question what they even know of the industry. This should be basic stuff for people who frequent a site like this.
It's one thing to not enjoy or even appreciate a video game, but it's a whole other story when someone goes out of their way to insult a very successful video game and deny the fact that it's an utter success.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
In the NA/EU region there are a grand total of 3 MMORPGs that ever reached 500k subs outside of the first month spike
1. WoW
2. EQ, at its peak. This was only about a 6 month period in 2004
3. SWTOR, but this was still part of its release spike.
Thats it, only 3. And 2 of the three just barely.
Trying to insult a game by saying it never got past 500k users is just flat out asinine.
When someone actually questions the incredible success that CCP has had with EVE, you really have to question what they even know of the industry. This should be basic stuff for people who frequent a site this.
It's one thing to not enjoy or even appreciate a video game, but it's a whole other story when someone goes out of their way to insult a very successful video game and deny the fact that it's an utter success.
he does this all the time to try to make his single player and lobby games seem so popular. In fact 400-450k subs is a hell of a lot better than his 1 million accounts that only 5% of the gamers pay into the cash shop. These facts seem to be obmitted each time.
the length of time and the steady amount of subs = success. Any game to make it 5+ years is a success, considering 95% of mmo's today dont even reach half that time.
I personaly dont play EVE, but respect it for what it is.
But even if you dont like that kind of game, to always bash the genre is just a horrible sign of how narrow minded people are. I love sandboxes, but i dont go to every themepark or lobby game forum and flame the users because i think my style of game is better. Unlike some here.
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
In the NA/EU region there are a grand total of 3 MMORPGs that ever reached 500k subs outside of the first month spike
1. WoW
2. EQ, at its peak. This was only about a 6 month period in 2004
3. SWTOR, but this was still part of its release spike.
Thats it, only 3. And 2 of the three just barely.
Trying to insult a game by saying it never got past 500k users is just flat out asinine.
Well if you include release spike there are several more (actually EQ never got past 450k, but thats close enough).
AOC I believe had 700k at release, lotro I believe also had around there at release (might be wrong on that one). Warhammer had over a million in it's spike.
And these are just in the west, as far as we know (dificult to tell by region). Worldwide there are several dozen.
and Eve is played worldwide as well, difficult to say how many are in just the NA/EU region.
9. Tera (will be downloading to play again on Jan 16)
10. AOC--terrible F2P option but I love the combat
11. LOTRO- edited in, a true leader in F2P
12. Uncharterd Waters- a little known but a gem of a sailing sandbox
I don't know about golden age, but I'm having a good time. That's a good game list.
Here's mine: GW2, TSW, EQ2, LotRO, STO, GW1, and RaiderZ. I'm looking forward to adding City of Steam and Neverwinter when they release and maybe Tera.
No complaints here. Golden age to me sort of implies it can't get any better, but I think it will only get better. It's better than it was 10 years ago and still going.
WEll, it can get better and go to the platinum age :P
NOw is a lot better than the time when UO/EQ was released, at least for me. Many choices, Many different settings. More game-like. All good in my book.
For game makers it is a golden age. They are able to slap together a turd of a game and make a pile of money. It is a dark age for the MMO consumer. The Market is driven by unethical companies that have no qualms about selling a sub-standard product. They are more interested in the "quick buck" than long term profits and readily destroy any good reputation they once had to acheive this. They are supported by legions of online shills who are payed to lie about..i mean hype these games. How does this story end? The consumer smartens the heck up and spends their entertainment dollars else where. I have accepted that the industry is incapable of putting out anything of value and moved onto FTP games and offline activities..
For game makers it is a golden age. They are able to slap together a turd of a game and make a pile of money. It is a dark age for the MMO consumer. The Market is driven by unethical companies that have no qualms about selling a sub-standard product. They are more interested in the "quick buck" than long term profits and readily destroy any good reputation they once had to acheive this. They are supported by legions of online shills who are payed to lie about..i mean hype these games. How does this story end? The consumer smartens the heck up and spends their entertainment dollars else where. I have accepted that the industry is incapable of putting out anything of value and moved onto FTP games and offline activities..
I count myself very lucky I don't see the world through your eyes. What a bitter exsistance you must have.
For game makers it is a golden age. They are able to slap together a turd of a game and make a pile of money. It is a dark age for the MMO consumer. The Market is driven by unethical companies that have no qualms about selling a sub-standard product. They are more interested in the "quick buck" than long term profits and readily destroy any good reputation they once had to acheive this. They are supported by legions of online shills who are payed to lie about..i mean hype these games. How does this story end? The consumer smartens the heck up and spends their entertainment dollars else where. I have accepted that the industry is incapable of putting out anything of value and moved onto FTP games and offline activities..
No .. all they are guilty of is not to make the game YOU like. You are just bitter because they progress without you.
If they make a pile of money, enough people like it. That is the principle of supply and demand.
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
In the NA/EU region there are a grand total of 3 MMORPGs that ever reached 500k subs outside of the first month spike
1. WoW
2. EQ, at its peak. This was only about a 6 month period in 2004
3. SWTOR, but this was still part of its release spike.
Thats it, only 3. And 2 of the three just barely.
Trying to insult a game by saying it never got past 500k users is just flat out asinine.
Well if you include release spike there are several more (actually EQ never got past 450k, but thats close enough).
AOC I believe had 700k at release, lotro I believe also had around there at release (might be wrong on that one). Warhammer had over a million in it's spike.
And these are just in the west, as far as we know (dificult to tell by region). Worldwide there are several dozen.
and Eve is played worldwide as well, difficult to say how many are in just the NA/EU region.
Maple story, LOL, WOT .. enough said.
LOL seriously? For real? All three of those suck just saying.
For game makers it is a golden age. They are able to slap together a turd of a game and make a pile of money. It is a dark age for the MMO consumer. The Market is driven by unethical companies that have no qualms about selling a sub-standard product. They are more interested in the "quick buck" than long term profits and readily destroy any good reputation they once had to acheive this. They are supported by legions of online shills who are payed to lie about..i mean hype these games. How does this story end? The consumer smartens the heck up and spends their entertainment dollars else where. I have accepted that the industry is incapable of putting out anything of value and moved onto FTP games and offline activities..
No .. all they are guilty of is not to make the game YOU like. You are just bitter because they progress without you.
If they make a pile of money, enough people like it. That is the principle of supply and demand.
It is a good time ... just not for you.
Perhaps you should open your eyes and read some posts before jumping to such conclusions. In fact he and many others here feel the same. Think you are the only one in this thread that likes gimped games...........hmmmmm
LOL seriously? For real? All three of those suck just saying.
Two of them aren't even MMOs for god's sake. So, for the sake of the thread, they fall into the category of who cares.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
LOL .. superior .. so superior that Eve never got pass 500k users.
So superior that devs abandoned in a jiffy.
It is only "superior" in your mind. There is nothing superior in gaming. Just games that some people like. It is called personal preference. The whole notion of "superiority" in games is just silly.
I agree that there is no "superior" model when it comes to MMOs because it's pretty evident by now that players like different "styles". It's worth noting however that if you throw out the anomoly (WoW) a solid 500k-ish population of monthly paying subsribers is probably larger than most MMOs out there. Rift may be up there as well and probably SWTOR, I haven't kept up lol.
I bring up "paying subscribers" because not only is the health of the game better but it shows a higher level of popularity per total user base, which is why we consider user numbers in the first place, right? Sandbox may not be a superior design to players but it does tend to accomplish what themeparks have a hard time with: keeping customers long term.
This is a dire age for MMO’s.
Once great titles sit beached on the shore of ‘no further funding’. Others have gone to the bottom of the sea to feed the corporate octopuses.
The modern MMO is a tin of sardines, ready packed and like every other tin of sardines. It is good value for money and keeps a content shark happy for a month but then he swims on.
MMO’s are never what you get on the tin, the hype would make a Giant Squid blush. MMO’s are cutting back, downsizing, being pulled or cancelled after years of glory.
So if you think this is the golden age of MMO’s, good luck to you and I am sure the Easter Bunny will be making a personal house call with you soon.
for me, 2003 was the golden age - all mmos prior to 2003 were active too
Pre2001
Everquest, Ultima Online, Lineage
2001
Anarchy Online, Asherons Call, Dark Age of Camelot
2002
Asherons Call 2, Earth & Beyond, Final Fantasy XI
2003
Shadowbane, Eve Online, Lineage II ,Second Life, Star Wars Galaxies, Horizons (now called Istaria)
early 2004
City of Heroes
EQ2 fan sites
Neat imagery!
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Xyson and Ryzom are not sand boxes? I think my post makes it clear that this is the Golden age for people who do not want to pay a sub, as there are now many quality games where you do not have to. Of course Eve is a quality game but you have to pay a sub and unless you are into tiny space ships, dots and spread sheets it may be boring for you.
I semi agree with another poster who said 2003 was a golden age because of the excellent but flawed Shadowbane and SWG--but again those were games with a sub.
Why must OP's post be satire or trolling. Is it that hard to understand some people might have other wishes when it comes to games and what they like/enjoy?
Personaly this genre as it is today is a big let down for me, but I aint blind seeing that there are allot of people who enjoy those games I might not.
OP is just expressing his opinion and I am actually glad to see fellow gamers enjoy allot of today's MMO games.
I feel there is lots of room for allot of different type of MMORPG's, yes I feel it's a shame that those of us who love the more sandbox type of MMORPG that there isn't much around. Sure we have a few sandbox games and I am sure some people just play games for it's feature's, but for me it needs to be both immersive and the feature's that make the world. For example if there would be some company that made the greatest sandbox MMORPG but with the Hello Kitty IP, I will pass. Would it be the same game but with a more mature nature, say Age of Conan but then as a sandbox you can count me in.
When it comes to F2P games I feel OP is right, we never had so many F2P games, I actually played some and enjoyed some but for a very limited period pure because I just couldn't play longer because today's games just feel far to limited for my personal taste. But regardless my feeling about them there plenty of gamers enjoying them.
In the NA/EU region there are a grand total of 3 MMORPGs that ever reached 500k subs outside of the first month spike
1. WoW
2. EQ, at its peak. This was only about a 6 month period in 2004
3. SWTOR, but this was still part of its release spike.
Thats it, only 3. And 2 of the three just barely.
Trying to insult a game by saying it never got past 500k users is just flat out asinine.
Ohh how those lovely snadbox games have become the go-to "thing" for all MMO gamers. Ohhh wait, WoW says wut? GW2 says wut? League of Legends says wut? Runescape says wut?
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Well if you include release spike there are several more (actually EQ never got past 450k, but thats close enough).
AOC I believe had 700k at release, lotro I believe also had around there at release (might be wrong on that one). Warhammer had over a million in it's spike.
And these are just in the west, as far as we know (dificult to tell by region). Worldwide there are several dozen.
and Eve is played worldwide as well, difficult to say how many are in just the NA/EU region.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
If a butterfly learnt to speak, to live in human society, paid its bills, had a job, lived in a fancy house and married a human, is it human?
Now what if that same butterfly knew how to write code better than any human and had years of experience in the game industry, would that make it a game designer?
If u wouldn't let a construction worker design your house, then why let a programmer design your world?
Haha I laughed out loud XD
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
When someone actually questions the incredible success that CCP has had with EVE, you really have to question what they even know of the industry. This should be basic stuff for people who frequent a site like this.
It's one thing to not enjoy or even appreciate a video game, but it's a whole other story when someone goes out of their way to insult a very successful video game and deny the fact that it's an utter success.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
he does this all the time to try to make his single player and lobby games seem so popular. In fact 400-450k subs is a hell of a lot better than his 1 million accounts that only 5% of the gamers pay into the cash shop. These facts seem to be obmitted each time.
the length of time and the steady amount of subs = success. Any game to make it 5+ years is a success, considering 95% of mmo's today dont even reach half that time.
I personaly dont play EVE, but respect it for what it is.
But even if you dont like that kind of game, to always bash the genre is just a horrible sign of how narrow minded people are. I love sandboxes, but i dont go to every themepark or lobby game forum and flame the users because i think my style of game is better. Unlike some here.
Maple story, LOL, WOT .. enough said.
WEll, it can get better and go to the platinum age :P
NOw is a lot better than the time when UO/EQ was released, at least for me. Many choices, Many different settings. More game-like. All good in my book.
For game makers it is a golden age. They are able to slap together a turd of a game and make a pile of money. It is a dark age for the MMO consumer. The Market is driven by unethical companies that have no qualms about selling a sub-standard product. They are more interested in the "quick buck" than long term profits and readily destroy any good reputation they once had to acheive this. They are supported by legions of online shills who are payed to lie about..i mean hype these games. How does this story end? The consumer smartens the heck up and spends their entertainment dollars else where. I have accepted that the industry is incapable of putting out anything of value and moved onto FTP games and offline activities..
I count myself very lucky I don't see the world through your eyes. What a bitter exsistance you must have.
No .. all they are guilty of is not to make the game YOU like. You are just bitter because they progress without you.
If they make a pile of money, enough people like it. That is the principle of supply and demand.
It is a good time ... just not for you.
LOL seriously? For real? All three of those suck just saying.
Perhaps you should open your eyes and read some posts before jumping to such conclusions. In fact he and many others here feel the same. Think you are the only one in this thread that likes gimped games...........hmmmmm
Two of them aren't even MMOs for god's sake. So, for the sake of the thread, they fall into the category of who cares.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb