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Roles/classes and Endgame



  • MaelzraelMaelzrael Las Cruces, NMPosts: 357Member Uncommon
    Also, why is a rogue different from a mage? (Useing basic classes here) A typical rogue can do alot of special things, Unlock chests, Disarm traps, stealth pull etc… A typical mage can also do alot of special things, Dispel chests/traps, elemental damage such as fire or ice which could have an impact of getting past certain obsticales..
    Now Emiko, it sounds to me like you dont want classes to do special things like this, and that is my problem, I do. I want it to matter if you are a Rogue or a Mage, I want you to be needed either way, but i want it to matter.
    When have you guys ever really seen “LF THIEF FOR COF P2!”? Not that often I’ll bet.
    While on the one hand, this is great, because there is never a reason a group shouldnt bring a particular player, on the other hand it really makes each class kinda unimportant.
    Perhaps I just want to be a special butterfly. >.< Idk. But In DOAC, one of the games this game emulates, Each class was extremely important for one or two reasons. Ie: Speed buffs, Single Pulls… etc. Not just Tank/heals/dps(which is super basic an boring) but other and far more important roles. Lots of games have had this up until WoW became the Game to be, then all other roles save the trinity were lost.
    Gw2 Doesnt need roles, they need content that requires one of each class for one reason or another.. Imho.

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,409Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelzrael
    Now Emiko, it sounds to me like you dont want classes to do special things like this, and that is my problem, I do. I want it to matter if you are a Rogue or a Mage, I want you to be needed either way, but i want it to matter.

    But it does matter. Your team's strategy should change based on its members' classes. PUGs usually don't care about that, but that's because PUGs suck, not because of the game. Groups for more difficult content, like high-level Fractals, are usually more organised and try to benefit all the neat stuff their members can do.

    In general, GW2's PvE is too easy at the moment. It needs some (probably optional, because people would scream bloody murder otherwise) harder content that's not just gimmicky Fractals. Right now, you just need full exotics and some common sense to get through most of the dungeons easily and that has to change. You shouldn't be able to GOGOGODPS through a dungeon. "Harder" doesn't mean "requires lots of people" or "requires certain abilities", however. It should still be possible to play through it with a well-built and coordinated group of random classes.

    Basically, when a puzzle has only one solution, repeating it is boring. That's what's wrong with many raids. A good dungeon should have difficult encounters that players can solve however they want, instead of forcing them into doing the same thing over and over again.

    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Scalpless
     I don't know about control mesmer, they don't have many good CC skills.

     Um what? Mesmers are the kings of CC.

    They've got iZerker and iWave, Magic Bullet, iLeap -> Swap, Counter Blade, Temporal Curtain -> Into the Void, Mantra of Distraction, Chaos Storm and Diversion. GS skills are great for crowd control, Magic Bullet is alright and Temporal Curtain is fantastic, but other than that... Counter Blade and Diversion are too short for PvE, iLeap misses half of the time, Chaos Storm is random and MoD is a Mantra.

    Compared to the CC other classes can pull off, that's not a great list. A Warrior can get four superb CC skills from Hammer alone. Of course, Mesmer has some CC traits, too, but they don't change the big picture IMO.

    Oh, there's more than that. Crippling Dissipation, for example... clones apply cripple when killed. That's an AoE cripple by the way... you can keep a group hobbling around quite nicely. Combine that with traiting to create a clone when you dodge and you have a mass degree of crippling goodness.  A well timed Feedback can work in situations. Confusion is a form of CC which can limit attacks or damage those that fail to accept those limits. Invisibilities break a target on you and allies and can keep the enemy from knowing where to go in the first place. The Desperate Decoy trait gives the enemy a false target... CC isn't simply restricting their movement but controlling where they may go as well by leading them in the wrong direction.

    Mesmer focus 4 is a tremendous CC skill used tactically. You can speed up allies, cripple foes, pull foes towards you, pull them away from you... 


    Mesmers don't lack in any way, shape or form when it comes to CC. We're masters at it. A warrior may have four great CC skills on the hammer, but if he can't get close enough to you to hit you, or if he's swinging at false targets...

    I guess it depends on your definition of CC. I wouldn't classify invisibilities are CC in a traditional sense. They're more like an aggro mechanic. I was also talking about PvE dungeons, because that seems to be TC's focus.

    But yes, maybe I'm underestimating mesmer's CC capabilities. I still wouldn't crown them the kings of it, because many other classes have great CC skills, too. For example, you're underestimating warriors. Many of their CC skills (Earthshaker and Hammer Blow for hammer skills) are ranged and they can immobilise crippled foes via Leg Specialist, so they're more than capable of competing with mesmers when it comes to cripples, stuns, immobilizes and KDs.

  • ennymithennymith Goodwell, CTPosts: 118Member Uncommon

    I feel the OPs pain on this. 

    I can see GW2's everybody can do everything game design and think it was gutsy to try something different, however I think it fails because there is simply too little synergy between classes.

    This is due to the fact that even though most players do PVE most of the time, the games classes are 'balanced' around PVP.

    The end result is combos provide little value in PVE, sure they may shave a microsecond or two off a boss fight, or save a team mate from death once in a blue moon, but for the most part they are just ineffective eyecandy.

    If a typical combo did twice the damage it does now in PVE, then you might see people really getting excited about specific classes and groupings.  Now it is just fill the team slot asap so we can get this zerg going.

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