Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Do we really need races?

135

Comments

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    It's something I'd prefer for sure over "pick orc, pick hair, play."

    you can trivialize it that way but in many mmos races goes beyond that

     

    in EQ1, choose the wrong race and enter neriak and you will be attacked on sight

     

    you can argue that "gang colors" can achieve the same result

    but personally ive always been a fan of fantasy races in literature -- long before computer gaming started

     

    No, that was my point exactly.  I want MORE from picking a race than what I described.  The things you describe such as a race being attacked when entering a place hostile to that race are what I consider a good addition and fit within the lore of the game.

    What I do not want is all of the race and customization to amount to what I said above.  Clicking the orc, changing hair style between the four options available, and that'd be all there was to it.  To me, that's the wrong direction.

    I'm all for extensive meaningful customization both inside character creation and afterwards.

    El Psy Congroo

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    I wonder how many MMORPG players would be against extremely extensive customization starting in character creation and continuing throughout the character's time in game.

     

    It's something I'd prefer for sure over "pick orc, pick hair, play."

    Depends, more people will (sometimes rabidly) object if the customizations have some mechanical implications, like racial skills in wow or hitboxes in tera.

    Without that people may be still unhappy if some customizations are seen as too desirable (say, golden or twilight era silver sparkling skin), and they are either overused or too exclusive (say, cashshop), but atleast there will be the argument there, that  "its just color, deal with it".

    Flame on!

    :)

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Not race, species. L2Biology

    Dunno, take dark elves, wood elves and light elves.

    Fits the definition quite nicely:

    "In biology, races are distinct genetically divergent populations within the same species with relatively small morphological and genetic differences."

    Flame on!

    :)

    Why would anyone need to flame that?

    Your reply is contradicting in my favor. You disagree with me, but then posted in comparison, Elf (species) and Dark, Wood, and Light (races). And even included the definition that states just that.

    Anyways, the point is, just tired of the use of incorrect terminology. Just like when I correct people that call cheaters "hackers". They are not hackers themselves, but applying scripts, and the industry term for those individuals are called "script kiddies".

    It makes a better case when people use the correct terminologies.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    If you read the OP's first post in this thread, you'll see that she's only looking at races as a 'look'.  She doesn't call into question any gameplay or roleplay aspect of them, just how pretty or ugly they are.  This could be why she sees no value in different races, as to be honest, she's shallow.  It's like she's saying there is no point for a Dwarf race to exist because to her they are ugly.

     

    I do like her little motto though "Better to be safe then sorry" because it seems to fit her reasoning so well.  I'd rather be safe thAn sorry.  She'd rather be both?

     

    In any event, most of the people who posted here seem to agree that diversity of character in a role playing game has many benifits from players feeling like the character is their own, to role-playing, to in game conflict and lore, to different racial abilities, the list goes on and on.

    I hope developers add many more ways to customize characters including different races, whether or not they are "ugly" or "pretty"

    El Psy Congroo

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    I wonder how many MMORPG players would be against extremely extensive customization starting in character creation and continuing throughout the character's time in game.

     

    It's something I'd prefer for sure over "pick orc, pick hair, play."

    Depends, more people will (sometimes rabidly) object if the customizations have some mechanical implications, like racial skills in wow or hitboxes in tera.

    Without that people may be still unhappy if some customizations are seen as too desirable (say, golden or twilight era silver sparkling skin), and they are either overused or too exclusive (say, cashshop), but atleast there will be the argument there, that  "its just color, deal with it".

    Flame on!

    :)

    Please stop encouraging people to break the forum's rules.

    El Psy Congroo

  • NL-RikkertNL-Rikkert schagenPosts: 121Member Uncommon
    Go play Guild Wars 1.. PROBLEM SOLVED, THREAD CLOSED!

    STOOPID
    When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by NL-Rikkert
    Go play Guild Wars 1.. PROBLEM SOLVED, THREAD CLOSED!

    Not really an MMO

    Had to say it :P

    El Psy Congroo

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Glenview, ILPosts: 694Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kadepsyson
    Originally posted by NL-Rikkert
    Go play Guild Wars 1.. PROBLEM SOLVED, THREAD CLOSED!

    Not really an MMO

    Had to say it :P

    Does this mean we can start a brand new thread on whether or not GW1 is an MMO???  Oh, please, please, let's do that

    Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Not race, species. L2Biology

    Dunno, take dark elves, wood elves and light elves.

    Fits the definition quite nicely:

    "In biology, races are distinct genetically divergent populations within the same species with relatively small morphological and genetic differences."

    Flame on!

    :)

    Why would anyone need to flame that?

    Your reply is contradicting in my favor. You disagree with me, but then posted in comparison, Elf (species) and Dark, Wood, and Light (races). And even included the definition that states just that.

    Anyways, the point is, just tired of the use of incorrect terminology. Just like when I correct people that call cheaters "hackers". They are not hackers themselves, but applying scripts, and the industry term for those individuals are called "script kiddies".

    It makes a better case when people use the correct terminologies.

    I was just pitching that it is not that important or clear.

    Games and their environment a are not real, they dont have to use state of the art terminology, it can even be counterproductive, "plasmaball" or "gesture controlled production and transfer of life energy".

    Flame on!

    :)

     

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Not race, species. L2Biology

    Dunno, take dark elves, wood elves and light elves.

    Fits the definition quite nicely:

    "In biology, races are distinct genetically divergent populations within the same species with relatively small morphological and genetic differences."

    Flame on!

    :)

    Why would anyone need to flame that?

    Your reply is contradicting in my favor. You disagree with me, but then posted in comparison, Elf (species) and Dark, Wood, and Light (races). And even included the definition that states just that.

    Anyways, the point is, just tired of the use of incorrect terminology. Just like when I correct people that call cheaters "hackers". They are not hackers themselves, but applying scripts, and the industry term for those individuals are called "script kiddies".

    It makes a better case when people use the correct terminologies.

    I was just pitching that it is not that important or clear.

    Games and their environment a are not real, they dont have to use state of the art terminology, it can even be counterproductive, "plasmaball" or "gesture controlled production and transfer of life energy".

    Flame on!

    :)

     

    Please stop encouraging people to break this forum's rules.

     

    You're right they are not real environments.  I find that accurate desciption of objects can help people understand what you are referring to more than saying "that thing over there".

    Is there something wrong with having a species selection followed by a race choice as a subset of species?  Or is that too state of the art?

    El Psy Congroo

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Of course first you would have to determine whether orcs, humans, elves... are in fact different species rather than races of the same species.

    Shadowrun says they are not seperate species :)

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Is there something wrong with having a species selection followed by a race choice as a subset of species?  Or is that too state of the art?

    Dunno, to me it would sound like "Mousse au Chocolat" on a McDonalds menu.

    Its more fitting for a sci-fi, where it partially means "alien" :)

    Flame on!

    :)

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by NorseGod
    Not race, species. L2Biology

    Dunno, take dark elves, wood elves and light elves.

    Fits the definition quite nicely:

    "In biology, races are distinct genetically divergent populations within the same species with relatively small morphological and genetic differences."

    Flame on!

    :)

    Why would anyone need to flame that?

    Your reply is contradicting in my favor. You disagree with me, but then posted in comparison, Elf (species) and Dark, Wood, and Light (races). And even included the definition that states just that.

    Anyways, the point is, just tired of the use of incorrect terminology. Just like when I correct people that call cheaters "hackers". They are not hackers themselves, but applying scripts, and the industry term for those individuals are called "script kiddies".

    It makes a better case when people use the correct terminologies.

    I was just pitching that it is not that important or clear.

    Games and their environment a are not real, they dont have to use state of the art terminology, it can even be counterproductive, "plasmaball" or "gesture controlled production and transfer of life energy".

    Flame on!

    :)

     

    Race, species, hackers, script kiddies are state of the art terminologies? I disagree.

    Using correct termonologies to get a point across makes sense if you want results or anyone to give what is being said any credibility. You find this unimportant. That's fine. But, others can take the same lazy approach in response (if they even bother responding).

    You see, there are more than just bored gamers, trolls, and shills that come to this site. Some might actually be from the gaming industry to get the pulse of the gaming community.

    If I was such an individual, do you think I would take in consideration from those who put effort and demonstrate that they know what they are talking about more seriously than, those who do not?

    Basically, if I wanted to propose an idea that I would like to gain traction, I would at least make it sound intelligent.

    But yeah, you made your point, it's just video games. A multi-billion dollar industry that needs people to continuously keep coming back to stay alive, which may include new ideas from what gamers want.

     

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ramonski7

    Originally posted by Lovely_Laly
    Seems it great fashion for latest game design to bring several races, more or less pretty or ugly. To be honest, I would prefer to have better designed factions for PvP or correct class balance. Even more classes will bring more fun then 5-6 races. Not sure what you guys thinking about, but I don't even know how to get hypo about small shhhh like gnome, dwarf etc to be your avatar. =XD May be we should have only 2 races: pretty and ugly? or even just one? I don't talk about NPC, I don't care what race they are.

    If you're going to throw out races, then you might as well throw out classes and factions. If devs focused more on gameplay rather than made up factions, races and classes wouldn't it be even better?

     

    No. I never understood why people got excited when a new race was listed as a feature..
  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Ramonski7
    Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

    Seems it great fashion for latest game design to bring several races, more or less pretty or ugly.

    To be honest, I would prefer to have better designed factions for PvP or correct class balance.

    Even more classes will bring more fun then 5-6 races.

    Not sure what you guys thinking about, but I don't even know how to get hypo about small shhhh like gnome, dwarf etc to be your avatar. =XD

    May be we should have only 2 races: pretty and ugly? or even just one?

    I don't talk about NPC, I don't care what race they are.

    If you're going to throw out races, then you might as well throw out classes and factions. If devs focused more on gameplay rather than made up factions, races and classes wouldn't it be even better?

     

    No. I never understood why people got excited when a new race was listed as a feature..

    It sounds like you are agreeing with him, but still said no.

    Are you saying you prefer many factions over quality gameplay?

    It's really hard to figure out what you meant.

    Personally I agree with Ramonski7 that gameplay is better to focus on than races.

    El Psy Congroo

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Is there something wrong with having a species selection followed by a race choice as a subset of species?  Or is that too state of the art?

    Dunno, to me it would sound like "Mousse au Chocolat" on a McDonalds menu.

    Its more fitting for a sci-fi, where it partially means "alien" :)

    Flame on!

    :)

    Why do you keep asking people to break the rules of the forum?

    If you want to end every post with your encouragement to break the rules, you could edit your signature field in your profile.  Or is that too state of the art for you?

     

    Also, people already understand there is a difference between a human and a dog.  To let you select first, man or dog, then if dog is chosen, select bloodhound or greyhound wouldn't be too hard for you to grasp would it?  I think most people would understand that a bloodhound is a type of dog, and not a human being, can you understand that too?

    El Psy Congroo

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member

    Flame on!

    :)

    Why do you keep asking people to break the rules of the forum?

    If you want to end every post with your encouragement to break the rules, you could edit your signature field in your profile.  Or is that too state of the art for you?

     

    Also, people already understand there is a difference between a human and a dog.  To let you select first, man or dog, then if dog is chosen, select bloodhound or greyhound wouldn't be too hard for you to grasp would it?  I think most people would understand that a bloodhound is a type of dog, and not a human being, can you understand that too?

    Well, he might be trolling or it might be that he believes that everything he says is just that controversial. Either case, how "edgy".

    He contradicts himself a few times. So, I hope he's just trolling.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

    Seems it great fashion for latest game design to bring several races, more or less pretty or ugly.

    To be honest, I would prefer to have better designed factions for PvP or correct class balance.

    Even more classes will bring more fun then 5-6 races.

    Not sure what you guys thinking about, but I don't even know how to get hypo about small shhhh like gnome, dwarf etc to be your avatar. =XD

    May be we should have only 2 races: pretty and ugly? or even just one?

    I don't talk about NPC, I don't care what race they are.

    A lot of people just like to have variety and a way to make themselves more unique. The fewer races, the fewer ways to be unique or get a look that fits your style.

    In the early days of Asheron's Call (ok actually for like the first 10-11 years of asheron's call) there were only humans. That never did seem to hold the game back as far as people wanting to play. At the same time people liked when they added more race options.

     

    I don't have any problem with having lots of races, I just don't like when it is tied to something. For me, make all races 100% cosmetic, no special abilities per race.

     

    Also when you say you'd rather have a better designed faction, class balance, PvP, you make it sound as if having more races means you can't have that. You can still have both and in fact races would be artist time and factions/balance/PvP would be developer/coder time so they don't even really share resources.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    I like having multiple races, as long as they have distinct cultures and their own areas/regions to level up in. Having vastly different playstyles represented across multiple classes is also a good thing. Is rather have that than class balance.
  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    Race, species, hackers, script kiddies are state of the art terminologies? I disagree.

    Using correct termonologies to get a point across makes sense if you want results or anyone to give what is being said any credibility. You find this unimportant. That's fine. But, others can take the same lazy approach in response (if they even bother responding).

    You see, there are more than just bored gamers, trolls, and shills that come to this site. Some might actually be from the gaming industry to get the pulse of the gaming community.

    If I was such an individual, do you think I would take in consideration from those who put effort and demonstrate that they know what they are talking about more seriously than, those who do not?

    Basically, if I wanted to propose an idea that I would like to gain traction, I would at least make it sound intelligent.

    But yeah, you made your point, it's just video games. A multi-billion dollar industry that needs people to continuously keep coming back to stay alive, which may include new ideas from what gamers want.

     

    "Terminology is the study of terms and their use. Terms are words and compound words that in specific contexts are given specific meanings, meanings that may deviate from the meaning the same words have in other contexts and in everyday language."

    I find the "gamers talking about fantasy games" social context most relevant in this case.

    And chillax :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=P89BWzYsGIE#t=81s

    Flame on!

    :)

  • NorseGodNorseGod Behind Enemy Lines, FLPosts: 856Member
    Originally posted by Banaghran
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    Race, species, hackers, script kiddies are state of the art terminologies? I disagree.

    Using correct termonologies to get a point across makes sense if you want results or anyone to give what is being said any credibility. You find this unimportant. That's fine. But, others can take the same lazy approach in response (if they even bother responding).

    You see, there are more than just bored gamers, trolls, and shills that come to this site. Some might actually be from the gaming industry to get the pulse of the gaming community.

    If I was such an individual, do you think I would take in consideration from those who put effort and demonstrate that they know what they are talking about more seriously than, those who do not?

    Basically, if I wanted to propose an idea that I would like to gain traction, I would at least make it sound intelligent.

    But yeah, you made your point, it's just video games. A multi-billion dollar industry that needs people to continuously keep coming back to stay alive, which may include new ideas from what gamers want.

     

    "Terminology is the study of terms and their use. Terms are words and compound words that in specific contexts are given specific meanings, meanings that may deviate from the meaning the same words have in other contexts and in everyday language."

    I find the "gamers talking about fantasy games" social context most relevant in this case.

    And chillax :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=P89BWzYsGIE#t=81s

    Flame on!

    :)

    Are we not studying the terms by debating them? Therefore, the use of the term, "termonology" is used correctly?

    Do these questions go beyond a simple cut and paste answer? I just want to know your thoughts, not others. If I wanted that, I'd just watch tv.

    Why do you continue to debate me with answers that contradict yourself and reinforces my case? Or simply, "I think you're wrong, so here's proof that you are actually right."

    I really hope you are just trolling. I really do, because the other explaination for your behavior saddens me.

    Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    But, but... if there were no humanoid green women with 3 large boobs, Captain Kirk would have had no sex life.
  • shantidevashantideva bongholmPosts: 186Member

    I guess not,but what would daytona be without the indy 500?

    Italy without F-1?

    Mankind has always been obsessed with getting ahead of one another and races are important celebrations of that phenomenon..

    just my 2..

    "Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"

  • Rollcage8Rollcage8 SydneyPosts: 63Member

    I find races in most RPG settings are generally uninspired and lack the appropriate depth that a different culture should bring. 

    For example, a dwarf is defined as a beer drinking rowdy miner that loves shiny things and loves his beard, nothing particularly wrong with these qualities but when the entire dwarf population I interact with cares for nothing else but these attributes then they begin to feel predictable and boring. Where as in contrast a human being can have many religions, many beliefs, many facial hair preferences.... And in general be far more unique an individual then any of the common "Elf" and "Dwarf" like characters. 

    Characters in fantasy  like Bilbo from the latest Hobbit movie stand out as heros, but still well defined by his racial attributes over his personal individual likes and dislikes. 

    Wheres the hobbit that likes to fight?

    Wheres the hobbit that is a professional thief. 

    No all hobbits are defined by never leaving there homes, and sitting around eating good food all day.

     

    I guess at the end of the day most fantasy races are merely a snapshot of a particular type of person and the entire race is built around that single snapshot of qualities, but humanity is far to varied and complex for a single snapshot.

    I have nothing against adding races, varied appearances are fine, but they need to vary the characters as individuals more.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by NorseGod

    Are we not studying the terms by debating them? Therefore, the use of the term, "termonology" is used correctly?

    Do these questions go beyond a simple cut and paste answer? I just want to know your thoughts, not others. If I wanted that, I'd just watch tv.

    Why do you continue to debate me with answers that contradict yourself and reinforces my case? Or simply, "I think you're wrong, so here's proof that you are actually right."

    I really hope you are just trolling. I really do, because the other explaination for your behavior saddens me.

    Well, in the beginning i wanted just make fun of you for bringing up biology here.

    But reading wikipedia is fun and in this case was slighly enlightening.

    So now i hold the belief that your insistence on using biology terminology is misplaced, we are not talking about things that posess DNA.

    We are talking about race in the context of rpg games, and most people will understand it for what it really means here, a more fundamental characteristic of a character (playable or not) that most often manifests itself in the cosmetic or appearance area, but may also influence other aspects, like availability of classes, gear restrictions and bonuses/penalties of all kinds.

    There i see the difference between "character race" and you mentioning the use of the word "hacker" to label cheaters to make news stories more sensational.

    Flame on!

    :)

Sign In or Register to comment.