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GW2 running into the same issues that Rift and WAR had

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  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Terranah

    I love the dynamic events, but as populations tend to drop, this is a potential problem.  As the OP experienced, I first noticed it in WAR.  I loved the open questing there too, but as the population dropped, it became very difficult if not impossible to complete certain quests.

     

    I'm not sure what the answer is while retaining that style of gameplay.  Maybe npc's that will help out.   It's also a reallly big world too, so that doesn't help in terms of population.  I'm not complaining, mind you, I love the world, but that adds another aspect to declining populations if they occur.

    Even beforre release many said this will happen but fans kept saying that scaling will solve this problem..however what they did forget is that majority of players like progression and rewards and that leaves no room for coming back to low level zones and do the DE'S just for the 'fun' of it. If it was true DE's in lower zones woudn't be empty which is the case these days.

    Guess ' we play GW2 just for for fun and loot or rewards'  supporters are really in minority

     

    Me and many others do come back to low level zones to do events, why you ask?

    It's easy, doing them help you get your dalies completed much faster than doing them in high level zones.

    Yeah i wish more players were like that but sadly that is not the case. GW2 devs  needs to apply more carrots for players to come back to lower zones.

    Then we will have people complaining that there are too many carrots in the game. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality.

     

    It seems people want to either be led by the nose or get out of my way I don't need any hand holding - sometimes the same person has both mentalities......

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,932Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

    1. you don't need DE to lvl at GW2, you have tone quests, personal story and gathering/crafting for it.

    2. chain events resuming with reward chest still very popular, shame are few of such.

    3. Cursed Shore offers lot of events as end game content. =XD You can farm all time there.

    4. If not, try WvW, they have events too.

    God, I can't imagine leveling without DEs.  I would have quit the game as it was at least a third of my XP and I was never ahead of the zones I entered.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,932Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis

    It seems people want to either be led by the nose or get out of my way I don't need any hand holding - sometimes the same person has both mentalities......

    Most people just want to have enough soloable content to easily level in a game.  If people really can't solo some of the DEs then this is a serious problem as there weren't enough heart quests to make up for it.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Levels are the problem.

    Levels split a community.

    Even with downranking, rewards and population is always better at high/peak levels.

    If you put in upranking (sidekicking up) you might as well not have levels in the first place.

    It's all about zone design too.

    Zones at all = bad.

    Bring back borderless/seemless regions, more geographical area to put content across the wide spectrum of player advancement.

    Newbie toons surrounded by newbie mobs with high level dungeons and caves or open farming areas on the edges.

    Noobs will learn to avoid.

    Simple conning systems always work.

    Ideal map? Something like this.

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    Looks like an ass with severe fungus infection ;)

    Anywho, yes Spock that would be ideal things to do in zones not only in GW2 but in all themepark games.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Levels are the problem.

    Levels split a community.

    Even with downranking, rewards and population is always better at high/peak levels.

    If you put in upranking (sidekicking up) you might as well not have levels in the first place.

    It's all about zone design too.

    Zones at all = bad.

    Bring back borderless/seemless regions, more geographical area to put content across the wide spectrum of player advancement.

    Newbie toons surrounded by newbie mobs with high level dungeons and caves or open farming areas on the edges.

    Noobs will learn to avoid.

    Zones are fine, because they generally help a game run better.  Zones certainly didnt hurt EQ, but EQ's zone design was closer to what you are proposing.

     

    GW2 is a unique case, because their intention was for people to be in all zones because of the downleveling.  But the issue is once you 100% a zone, there is no incentive to return.  GW2 needs to figure out how to give incentive.

     

    Now as time goes on and the game grows, the world is going to become too big to expect activity eveywhere, but there is no reason to rotate things around so at least one zone from each level range be populated.

     

    Its up to ANet to figure out how to make this happen

  • fat_taddlerfat_taddler Wanaque, NJPosts: 286Member

    In my opinion, Rift (Trion) has the best offering in terms of dynamic content, it feels the most dynamic out of the games listed in this thread and is completely optional.  

    Yet, if you choose to participate in closing Rifts and stopping invasions you are rewarded with useful items / currency.

     

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Zones are currently necessary in GW2 due to the Dynamic Event system. When you load into a zone your system needs to be aware of the states of all the events in that zone due to the fact that they can vary. In static quest systems ("!" style) the NPCs are effectively part of the terrain and in most cases will always be at a spot, like a rock. Static worlds allow for more "open" style maps since there's less information that needs to be shared.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Levels are the problem.

    Levels split a community.

    Even with downranking, rewards and population is always better at high/peak levels.

    If you put in upranking (sidekicking up) you might as well not have levels in the first place.

    It's all about zone design too.

    Zones at all = bad.

    Bring back borderless/seemless regions, more geographical area to put content across the wide spectrum of player advancement.

    Newbie toons surrounded by newbie mobs with high level dungeons and caves or open farming areas on the edges.

    Noobs will learn to avoid.

    Simple conning systems always work.

    Ideal map? Something like this.

    I don't think it will happen - Why you might say? 1. People want to know they are progressing, you take levels away, how do you show progression? 2. People like to know how they compare to others - this is the way to do it. We wouldn't have all these different competitions and sports events if we didn't want to know. 3. COMPETITION - I am better than you attitude.

     

    Zones are used to help keep server cost down, plain and simple. Anytime you have fancy travel, like WoW or TERA, or GW2, you have zones. It also makes the game more compartmentalized and easier to develop for. Not saying it is right, but it happens.

     

     

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 613Member Uncommon

    It's always been like that, with "dead zones" and "crowded zones". Some of us "old players" just did not have that feeling back then because we were blinded by the huge grind. Practically, it took me a year and a half to reach max level in Anarchy Online, and 80% of the leveling time was spent in one of 3-4 spots, doing the same thing over and over again. It took me another half year to get "everything i want" by joining the public raids. Still, there were some "set zones" and groups because that's how old games worked, you grouped up and started grinding in order to level. When you can level solo from 20 to 30 in two days, in a game with 60 levels, no wonder that there is no 20-30 crowded area. Normal players go through the area quickly, and alts of existing players fly through it.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by simmihi

    It's always been like that, with "dead zones" and "crowded zones". Some of us "old players" just did not have that feeling back then because we were blinded by the huge grind. Practically, it took me a year and a half to reach max level in Anarchy Online, and 80% of the leveling time was spent in one of 3-4 spots, doing the same thing over and over again. It took me another half year to get "everything i want" by joining the public raids. Still, there were some "set zones" and groups because that's how old games worked, you grouped up and started grinding in order to level. When you can level solo from 20 to 30 in two days, in a game with 60 levels, no wonder that there is no 20-30 crowded area. Normal players go through the area quickly, and alts of existing players fly through it.

    I have played 300 hours on one character and just got to lvl 80 - it does take a while even though the amount of EXP needed between levels is the same.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • Valgar1Valgar1 Someplace, NYPosts: 324Member

    No idea why ya mention Rift,

    Rifts in Rift at any lvl can always see people doing um. at least i find this true on Faeblight server. 

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  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Valgar1

    No idea why ya mention Rift,

    Rifts in Rift at any lvl can always see people doing um. at least i find this true on Faeblight server. 

    Minor rifts are sometimes closed because they are soloable.

    Major rifts sit forever in any non-expansion zone because they cant be soloed.

    Invasions get activity because they are broadcast to everyone.  However, invasions are uncommon in the midlevel zones because there are usually not enough people in them to trigger the invasions.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    Basically, the GW2 social experiment failed.  The forced level scaling didn't really do enough to make sure there was still a healthy spread of players in all leveling areas.  There isn't really much of an incentive for max level players to grind out low level DEs.

    Actually, you don't even run into that many DEs now.  I would assume this is due to the lack of people in the mid-level zones, but from 28-40 I think I ran maybe 4-5 DEs.  Most of my leveling these days is done via hearts, story quests, exploration, skill challenges, and mob grinding.

     

    Still, I don't think DEs were a mistake on Anet's part.  They clearly don't work as advertised, but anyone with functioning brain cells didn't expect them to be much else aside from glorified public quests.  They low level ones were fun when the game had the low level population to support them, and I would assume max level characters still run DEs in higher level zones.

     

    GW2 is like any MMO that has been out for several months.  You're just playing catch-up until you reach max level.  Now the problem with GW2 is the lack of meaningful things to do once you reach the max level.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    perhaps levels are the problem

     

    How long have i been saying that for now....

    Thats what pretty much every sandbox player has been saying. 

     

     

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Do these people suffering from the toils and burdens of soloing ever consider saying "need help with X"  or "X event starting" ? Or do the sit there by themselves banging their head into the wall wondering why nobody helps them out.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • Valgar1Valgar1 Someplace, NYPosts: 324Member
    Not to mention Rift has not failed as you say.  Maybe it failed you? Plenty of us still loving the game .  TONS of stuff to do.

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  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Do these people suffering from the toils and burdens of soloing ever consider saying "need help with X"  or "X event starting" ? Or do the sit there by themselves banging their head into the wall wondering why nobody helps them out.

    Yeah problem is that not enough people are  around to help them with x and y in low level and medium zones. Not all are lucky and blessd like you to be surrounded by players in every zone they go.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

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  • MeleagarMeleagar Nunyadambidness, TXPosts: 407Member
    The obvious answer is to provide rewards for DE's that will draw people to them. It's not so much a population problem as it is a population distribution problem.
  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 613Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Do these people suffering from the toils and burdens of soloing ever consider saying "need help with X"  or "X event starting" ? Or do the sit there by themselves banging their head into the wall wondering why nobody helps them out.

    Nah they just skip and do something else if they can. It's a natural human reaction, when some other path exists. When we see the sign "road blocked for 1 hour, detour here", most people won't sit for 1 hour waiting for the road to be available again.

    I really really cannot understand what the devs are thinking, does not make sense to me at all. They make a game where the "normal" path is solo to max level then they drop some "group content" stuff on the way, thinking that players would actually group and go for those, when the game teaches you that there is no reason to group. Same goes for the "raiding" endgame, most of the games give absolutely no alternative for PvE progression but raids, and after your two-to-four weeks solo adventure to max level, you're told "ok, now you need to group and fulfill a role. Group with random people that you might not see ever again and play nice". No wonder then why the communities in today's games look so retarded.

    Either have solo leveling, solo events, solo end game and make the game play like a single player RPG with chat and auction house or have party leveling, party events, party end game. Be consistent.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    perhaps levels are the problem

     

    How long have i been saying that for now....

    Thats what pretty much every sandbox player has been saying. 

     

     

    Lets look at it hypothetically:  Say GW2 had no levels (which you can do in this case, because if everyone were 80 it would effectively have no levels).

     

    How does this solve the problem of most of the zones being empty?  people are still going to tend to congregate in hot spots.

     

     

  • XithrylXithryl Plantation, FLPosts: 256Member
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo
    NO. Guild Wars 2 is still smooth and have a steady and growing playerbase.

    This is how I feel, I just started playing again and in every single zone people are doing events, calling them out in map chat and everything, its awesome!

    I do see that at times an event is happening and no one is around, but that doesn't mean people passed it and don't care, sometimes they simply don't see it! I call it out and link a waypoint, people start pouring in.

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Do these people suffering from the toils and burdens of soloing ever consider saying "need help with X"  or "X event starting" ? Or do the sit there by themselves banging their head into the wall wondering why nobody helps them out.

    Yeah problem is that not enough people are  around to help them with x and y in low level and medium zones. Not all are lucky and blessd like you to be surrounded by players in every zone they go.

    Apparantly not. Maybe I just picked a better server as it still remains as one of the full servers, but I don't have a problem at all. I find the current population to be fantastic. It's a nice amount of players so that you can do every event except for maybe the obscure ones, and yet not so many people that it's just a zerg of people where ones actions are just lost into the mass. 

    I don't doubt that there are  players still struggling with the combat mechanics, and they end up unable to do some of the little events by themselves. I feel sorry for those people, but I don't think the game should be dumbed down more just so they can have a fair shake at it. 

    The only DE's that are not soloable are the World Events or Group Events, and I have never seen a time where a map chat request didn't bring more than enough people.

    The other thing that nobody seems to factor, is it's ok to fail at the event.  You still get rewarded, and you might be able to see a different dynamic outcome than always succeeding at the events.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon

    One nice thing about GW2 is the level scaling. So its a lot of fun to go help guildies in older zones or visa versa.

    Sometimes its nice to have some content that isn't soloable...don't people complain about that?

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  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    The other thing that nobody seems to factor, is it's ok to fail at the event.  You still get rewarded, and you might be able to see a different dynamic outcome than always succeeding at the events.

     

    Yep, sometimes It's better to fail an event than "kill" it in It's early stage.

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

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