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[Column] Lord of the Rings Online: Wayback Wednesday: LotRO Galore

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Comments

  • xalvixalvi brooklyn, NYPosts: 329Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71

    LotRO one of the best MMORPGs out there.

     

    How is a PVE game pay to win?

     

    1) in your opinion, lotro is one of the best mmorpgs out there. Gotz to fix that buddy

    2) Suppose i raid, i been raiding and dying/wiping just to get good loot, money, jewlery, etc.. then comes along some dude with $$ and buys the items from the store instead of earning it through the game, that my friend is a pve pay2win. You are knocking off a player who really wants to raid to a person with $$

     

    P.S - PVP lotro is fully pay2win.

  • kevjardskevjards carlislePosts: 1,463Member
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71

    LotRO one of the best MMORPGs out there.

     

    How is a PVE game pay to win?

     

    [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71

    LotRO one of the best MMORPGs out there.

     

    How is a PVE game pay to win?

     

    1) in your opinion, lotro is one of the best mmorpgs out there. Gotz to fix that buddy

    2) Suppose i raid, i been raiding and dying/wiping just to get good loot, money, jewlery, etc.. then comes along some dude with $$ and buys the items from the store instead of earning it through the game, that my friend is a pve pay2win. You are knocking off a player who really wants to raid to a person with $$

     

    P.S - PVP lotro is fully pay2win.

    Thanks for making it clear that my opinion (just like yours) is in fact an opinion.  Ironically this site and others are opinion based.  A quick check of MMORPG.coms top Rated released games puts LOTRO tied for 6th place with a 7.68 rating.  Not too shabby.   Seems that my opinion of LOTRO is in fact inline with most others here on MMORPG.com.

    Congrats on coining a new phrase "PvE pay2win", also please check what the "real" definition of pay to win really is, and one that most sane players agree on.

    On a side note if you play LOTRO for the PvP experience your doing something wrong.  The developers have stated that the intent of LOTRO was the PvE side.  I find it ironic in making your P2W arguement you add the part I highlighted in yellow.  If LOTRO is P2W why did you need to state that PvP is "fully pay2win".

     

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Eh, it's got some flaws.  The store is everywhere (I mean there are buttons everywhere to bring you to the store), much more so than when it transitioned.  I think they shouldn't be charging for game mechanics like xp disablers. It should be an account unlock and something you could adjust (ala the xp slider in EQ2) and always open to subscribers.  Really they should take a que from GW2 and implement dynamic mentoring.  That is by far the coolest mentoring system I've ever used.

    Subscribers should have the whole game unlocked while they're subbed.  If they would rethink the way they monetize I think they would come across less as greedy bastages and more like devs that are pricing their services fairly and competively.

    The addition of open tapping and remote looting is huge.  GW2, TSW and other games should take a que from Turbine (I can't believe I'm actually writing that) and implement an option for remote looting.

    The game looks dated in some places, mostly Moria and some parts of Eregion.  And yes, the character models are painful.  Not quite Vanguard painful, but about like EQ2 where they look plastic.  The animations are also clunky.

    Still, when you actually own a bunch of the content, you can play and roll alts and do whatever the hell you want all day long and not have to buy any of the boosts or items from the store.  I think the game is "pay to win", but then again I consider pretty much every game "pay to win" (what an asinine jargon term - it drives me crazy).  If you sell advantage, gate content through cash, or sell exclusive items in the cash shop, then I consider that "pay to win".  The thing is, like I said, once you own the content, you don't have to visit the store unless you want to.

    The lore-master is one of the best classes ever and one of my favorite pet classes.  Turbine doesn't get enough credit for their design with this particular class.

    At this age, it also has a lot of content available probably surpassed by EQ2 and rivaled by WoW.  So while not a perfect game, it's still fun and will live on my hard drive for the time being.

  • NyrujoNyrujo Ardsley, NYPosts: 6Member

    Gonna just take a swing at a few comments that caught my attention and since I'm a Lifetime founder aka been playing the game since closed beta I'd like to shed some actual light some of the fanboys tried to stomp into the dust.

    First, LOTRO was once a wonderful game with beautiful zones and combat/instance mechanics. Since F2P launched Turbine, and now WB, have done nothing but try to make as much money from the store as possible. Is the game still being played by an active community? Of course, plenty of people still like it and I still log in to play my hobbit burg every now and then.

    Now for the P2Win comments. I saw a few fan boys freak out about that comment and I hate to tell you fellas but it's true. Maybe you don't visit the Moors, I wouldn't after 6 years of the same PvP zone, but the monster players can buy everything via the online store. That's the perfect definition of pay 2 win.

    Mounted Combat, for the person who had no idea of other MMOs with it please check out Age of Conan as it had mounted combat at launch I believe. Does it stick with the lore? Of course it does but they could have at least added it to all the Rohan zones, or better any zone containing Rohirrim camps.

    Turbine's inability to code proper dungeons, and the addition of challenge mode, pretty much killed the end game for LOTRO as well. I mean, you get an expansion pack and then wait months for the instances to be released? In 2 parts? Maybe next time you should hold off on scrambling for the cash and release the expansion as one full set. Don't troll me about the instance packs being free, I'm aware that you essentially pre-ordered an xpac.

    They continue to make changes to that game, along with making promises they'll never keep, for the worse. If they actually cared about it at this point you'd at least have a new pvp map to, you know maybe fit with all the evil places we've gone to at this point. No, because it's a PvE game that they want to keep that way even though they can't even get PvE content out in time.

    I mean, it's on Wayback Wednesday after DAoC, so that should tell you something about what even the people here at MMORPG think about it.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nyrujo

    Mounted Combat, for the person who had no idea of other MMOs with it please check out Age of Conan as it had mounted combat at launch I believe. Does it stick with the lore? Of course it does but they could have at least added it to all the Rohan zones, or better any zone containing Rohirrim camps.

    I mostly agree with your comments, I said too that LotRO is slowly sliding towards pay2win... and the split-released Isengard, and Rohan expansions indeed seem a bit weird.

     

    I just want to address the mounted combat part, since I still thinks it's good as it is. Of course I don't need to check on AoC (I play it since launch and my cimmerian alts never leave the village without their trusty mammoth :) ), and it's definitely not mounted combat, in a sense Turbine made war-steeds.

    True, if you take it by the letter, you get in-combat state, and you're mounted :) but it's only like those browser games I mentioned, your mount has 2 skills (or 1 in later with Godslayer mounts), with those skills your mount does some damage. It's not even close to the war-steed system in Rohan...

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon
    ive went back to LOTR online quite a few times over being bored with other games but it never fails once i get to about level 20 or so I just get so bored of the game its not even funny. Combat is just so slow paced and animations are just boring. I know others will disgree with me but I just cannot get into the slow paced gameplay and long drawn out run everywhere questing they offer. I did enjoy the winter festival though but once I got what i wanted on 3 toons i just quit playing again . Guess the game just isnt for me .
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nyrujo

    Gonna just take a swing at a few comments that caught my attention and since I'm a Lifetime founder aka been playing the game since closed beta I'd like to shed some actual light some of the fanboys tried to stomp into the dust.

    First, LOTRO was once a wonderful game with beautiful zones and combat/instance mechanics. Since F2P launched Turbine, and now WB, have done nothing but try to make as much money from the store as possible. Is the game still being played by an active community? Of course, plenty of people still like it and I still log in to play my hobbit burg every now and then.

    Now for the P2Win comments. I saw a few fan boys freak out about that comment and I hate to tell you fellas but it's true. Maybe you don't visit the Moors, I wouldn't after 6 years of the same PvP zone, but the monster players can buy everything via the online store. That's the perfect definition of pay 2 win.

    Mounted Combat, for the person who had no idea of other MMOs with it please check out Age of Conan as it had mounted combat at launch I believe. Does it stick with the lore? Of course it does but they could have at least added it to all the Rohan zones, or better any zone containing Rohirrim camps.

    Turbine's inability to code proper dungeons, and the addition of challenge mode, pretty much killed the end game for LOTRO as well. I mean, you get an expansion pack and then wait months for the instances to be released? In 2 parts? Maybe next time you should hold off on scrambling for the cash and release the expansion as one full set. Don't troll me about the instance packs being free, I'm aware that you essentially pre-ordered an xpac.

    They continue to make changes to that game, along with making promises they'll never keep, for the worse. If they actually cared about it at this point you'd at least have a new pvp map to, you know maybe fit with all the evil places we've gone to at this point. No, because it's a PvE game that they want to keep that way even though they can't even get PvE content out in time.

    I mean, it's on Wayback Wednesday after DAoC, so that should tell you something about what even the people here at MMORPG think about it.

    Ho hum, so you don't like the game, fine you have not figured it out yet that Lotro is not about pvp, if you want to pvp there are far better games to do it in.  Every time I see someone whining about pay to win in Lotro, I see another poster who has no clue what they are talking about. 

  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff Writer St. Charles, MOPosts: 460MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nyrujo

    I mean, it's on Wayback Wednesday after DAoC, so that should tell you something about what even the people here at MMORPG think about it.

    I've done Wayback Wednesdays on EQ, EQII, PlanetSide, Vanguard, DDO, LotRO, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Age of Conan....

    I don't understand the point of that comment. 

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by Nyrujo

    Now for the P2Win comments. I saw a few fan boys freak out about that comment and I hate to tell you fellas but it's true. Maybe you don't visit the Moors, I wouldn't after 6 years of the same PvP zone, but the monster players can buy everything via the online store. That's the perfect definition of pay 2 win.

    Ho hum, so you don't like the game, fine you have not figured it out yet that Lotro is not about pvp, if you want to pvp there are far better games to do it in.  Every time I see someone whining about pay to win in Lotro, I see another poster who has no clue what they are talking about. 

    Far from me to jump in the middle of a nice conversation :)

    but I 'whined' earlier about "LotRO indeed took some steps towards pay-to-win in the last two years, but still is very far from it. (although it was enough for Turbine to erase the "convenience, not advantage" post from everywhere :) )"  and I still hold myself to it. If it's more comfortable to you we can call it 'pay to advantage' instead of pay to win, but the direction is pretty clear... and it's not even a bashing or whining, I love LotRO, and I don't participate the fight in the 'Moors, but that change has nothing to do with pve or pvp. Just a few clues what I'm talking about:   (I know, you said we have no clue, let's call it a list then)

    -skeleton horse ("it's only convenience, for those who don't had the luck to get it from the chest") then

    -tomes ("again only convenience, the drop rate is so low, we let the players to buy it") then

    -250/+68% horses ("convenience for those, who don't want to gather enough reputation") then

    -store only mounts ("it's only cosmetics... oh, you're a horse collector? lol, bad for you") then

    -LI change, backed up with store-only Relic removal scroll (around that time erased they Patience's "convenience not advantage" line from everywhere, it was hardly only a convenience, there was an uproar on the forums as well)

    After that I don't even followed the store, so I'm not sure in the order, but there came the

    Premium barter wallet (true, they fixed it later for vip's),

    statted gear (I know, only low-level, but not that is the importance, it's the option - now they can put any gear in the Store),

    purchase-able crafting (hardly only a convenience, and again it opens the option to more advancements in the Store like other factions)

    universal pots (don't mean the creep version) with higher boost than it's athelas / celebrant counterparts, and with only 20sec cd instead of 2min

    and the latest xp changes (in crafting and festival) to establish the arrival of the xp-disabler in Store...

     

    Again, I love the game. But it doesn't mean I have to look away from changes I don't like. (almost forgot the Apparel dummies and the Store buttons spawning everywhere :) ) LotRO has one of the best freemium models in the market. There's absolutely no need to this push towards greed. They are doing it in a very sleazy, one step at a time method as well... Look it at this way: if they've put universal pots and statted gear in Store right after the f2p conversion, what would've the playerbase said?

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    I've been playing this game again since the last month or so. I tried it way back at release and then again a couple years ago and I never got into it, never got passed level 10 or so. Since I've started playing now I've become immersed in theRP server Laurelin. It really is a great game and for those that agree we know why, and for those that disagree, I know why as well because I thought it was horrid at one time lol.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • urbanosurbanos PoznanPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by Po_gg
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by Nyrujo

    Now for the P2Win comments. I saw a few fan boys freak out about that comment and I hate to tell you fellas but it's true. Maybe you don't visit the Moors, I wouldn't after 6 years of the same PvP zone, but the monster players can buy everything via the online store. That's the perfect definition of pay 2 win.

    Ho hum, so you don't like the game, fine you have not figured it out yet that Lotro is not about pvp, if you want to pvp there are far better games to do it in.  Every time I see someone whining about pay to win in Lotro, I see another poster who has no clue what they are talking about. 

    Far from me to jump in the middle of a nice conversation :)

    but I 'whined' earlier about "LotRO indeed took some steps towards pay-to-win in the last two years, but still is very far from it. (although it was enough for Turbine to erase the "convenience, not advantage" post from everywhere :) )"  and I still hold myself to it. If it's more comfortable to you we can call it 'pay to advantage' instead of pay to win, but the direction is pretty clear... and it's not even a bashing or whining, I love LotRO, and I don't participate the fight in the 'Moors, but that change has nothing to do with pve or pvp. Just a few clues what I'm talking about:   (I know, you said we have no clue, let's call it a list then)

    -skeleton horse ("it's only convenience, for those who don't had the luck to get it from the chest") then

    -tomes ("again only convenience, the drop rate is so low, we let the players to buy it") then

    -250/+68% horses ("convenience for those, who don't want to gather enough reputation") then

    -store only mounts ("it's only cosmetics... oh, you're a horse collector? lol, bad for you") then

    -LI change, backed up with store-only Relic removal scroll (around that time erased they Patience's "convenience not advantage" line from everywhere, it was hardly only a convenience, there was an uproar on the forums as well)

    After that I don't even followed the store, so I'm not sure in the order, but there came the

    Premium barter wallet (true, they fixed it later for vip's),

    statted gear (I know, only low-level, but not that is the importance, it's the option - now they can put any gear in the Store),

    purchase-able crafting (hardly only a convenience, and again it opens the option to more advancements in the Store like other factions)

    universal pots (don't mean the creep version) with higher boost than it's athelas / celebrant counterparts, and with only 20sec cd instead of 2min

    and the latest xp changes (in crafting and festival) to establish the arrival of the xp-disabler in Store...

    LOTRO is hardly pay to win game. You cannot buy raid gear, rare meta-deed titles or mounts in the shop.  Stat tomes are buyable on my server from AH for around 40 golds and relict removal scrolls for 100 gold- no big deal. Store only mounts have now only cosmetic value. War-steeds are far superior to normal mounts especially if you invest in agility or turn rate -then  they will behave like normal mounts.

     
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by Czanrei

    Mounted combat in Lotro is a joke and the devs should be embarrassed for releasing such lazy and shoddy work. There is not one single mmo out there that restricts mounted combat to only one region for one thing. Mounted combat being restricted to one area is a cash-grab pure and simple to get players to buy the new expansion.

    Which goes back to Lotro evolving into a pay-to-win mmo over the past couple years. When a game allows the purchase of non-cosmetic gear, faster than normal mounts and XP and skill boosting potions/scrolls on Turbine's cash shop equals pay-to-win. Some gamers need to be smarter with their money and not waste money on pay-to-win garbage. 

    Biggest load of nonsense I have seen in ages.  There is nothing that p2win in Lotro, the poster obviously does not understand what p2win is.  It is when you get a huge advantage from buying equipment from the item shop, or get matts that create such. 

    You might want to look at what people can buy for themselves in PvMP.  It's P2W.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by urbanos
    Originally posted by Po_gg

    "LotRO indeed took some steps towards pay-to-win in the last two years, but still is very far from it. (although it was enough for Turbine to erase the "convenience, not advantage" post from everywhere :) )" 

    LOTRO is hardly pay to win game. You cannot buy raid gear, rare meta-deed titles or mounts in the shop.  Stat tomes are buyable on my server from AH for around 40 golds and relict removal scrolls for 100 gold- no big deal. Store only mounts have now only cosmetic value. War-steeds are far superior to normal mounts especially if you invest in agility or turn rate -then  they will behave like normal mounts.

     

    Ok, then again: took some steps towards pay-to-win ..., but still is very far from it. I don't say it's p2w, I'm just saying it's on a wrong course and that course is heading towards p2w.

    For the stuff in AH - you can call me old-fashioned, but buying gold for real money is just as negative as it was years ago, and if companies step into the places of the gold-sellers, it still remains the same negative. Maybe it's just me, a lot of games have now this "buy something then sell it for ingame money" method...

    And as Frodo wrote, the Moors is much closer now to full-blown p2w. I don't pvp, but I have buddies who do, and I hear from them the same thing.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by Czanrei

    Mounted combat in Lotro is a joke and the devs should be embarrassed for releasing such lazy and shoddy work. There is not one single mmo out there that restricts mounted combat to only one region for one thing. Mounted combat being restricted to one area is a cash-grab pure and simple to get players to buy the new expansion.

    Which goes back to Lotro evolving into a pay-to-win mmo over the past couple years. When a game allows the purchase of non-cosmetic gear, faster than normal mounts and XP and skill boosting potions/scrolls on Turbine's cash shop equals pay-to-win. Some gamers need to be smarter with their money and not waste money on pay-to-win garbage. 

    Biggest load of nonsense I have seen in ages.  There is nothing that p2win in Lotro, the poster obviously does not understand what p2win is.  It is when you get a huge advantage from buying equipment from the item shop, or get matts that create such. 

    You might want to look at what people can buy for themselves in PvMP.  It's P2W.

    Few play LOTRO for PvP and the developers have said PvP is not priority. 

    Read my signature.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by Czanrei

    Mounted combat in Lotro is a joke and the devs should be embarrassed for releasing such lazy and shoddy work. There is not one single mmo out there that restricts mounted combat to only one region for one thing. Mounted combat being restricted to one area is a cash-grab pure and simple to get players to buy the new expansion.

    Which goes back to Lotro evolving into a pay-to-win mmo over the past couple years. When a game allows the purchase of non-cosmetic gear, faster than normal mounts and XP and skill boosting potions/scrolls on Turbine's cash shop equals pay-to-win. Some gamers need to be smarter with their money and not waste money on pay-to-win garbage. 

    Biggest load of nonsense I have seen in ages.  There is nothing that p2win in Lotro, the poster obviously does not understand what p2win is.  It is when you get a huge advantage from buying equipment from the item shop, or get matts that create such. 

    You might want to look at what people can buy for themselves in PvMP.  It's P2W.

    Geez, read the posts, if you want to pvp find another game, Lotro is a pve game, whining about the little used pvp side of the game is absurd.

    I have spent $50 on this game($30 on a two month sub when it first came out and $20 when it went f2p to buy some store points) and have several level 85 characters.  Eve is my primary MMO, I just play Lotro occassionally.  Most of my characters have top end mounts, my max level characters do well in dungeon crawls, they do not lack equipment.  I am actually embarrassed that have not spent more, because I do enjoy the game.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by Czanrei

    Mounted combat in Lotro is a joke and the devs should be embarrassed for releasing such lazy and shoddy work. There is not one single mmo out there that restricts mounted combat to only one region for one thing. Mounted combat being restricted to one area is a cash-grab pure and simple to get players to buy the new expansion.

    Which goes back to Lotro evolving into a pay-to-win mmo over the past couple years. When a game allows the purchase of non-cosmetic gear, faster than normal mounts and XP and skill boosting potions/scrolls on Turbine's cash shop equals pay-to-win. Some gamers need to be smarter with their money and not waste money on pay-to-win garbage. 

    Biggest load of nonsense I have seen in ages.  There is nothing that p2win in Lotro, the poster obviously does not understand what p2win is.  It is when you get a huge advantage from buying equipment from the item shop, or get matts that create such. 

    You might want to look at what people can buy for themselves in PvMP.  It's P2W.

    Few play LOTRO for PvP and the developers have said PvP is not priority. 

    Read my signature.

    That is a red herring at best and just obtuse at worst.  Why people play pvp is totally irrelevant with regards to the store.

    P2W is a total propaganda buzzword.  It doesn't have an inherently defined meaning.  It has a perceived meaning that is different for most everyone.

    I think people should stop trying to defend and rationalize why their game isn't "P2W" when mud-slingers come in and make some dimissive observation.  For me, P2W is anything where you can buy an advantage compared to non-purchases, are gated for not spending more, or are restricted from content altogether.  Pretty much every game is P2W.  In every game paying gives you some advantage even if it is just cosmetics that you would otherwise have to spend in game resources and time to acquire if that is even possible.  Some games have content locks (raid locks, daily / weekly limits) that mean you must spend more time and therefore more subscription money to keep up with everyone else.  Some games don't even let you play if you don't pay them.

    So I say to those people, "So what?  Move on and go rationalize your game's pay to win scheme and quit trolling."

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    It's a weak game that has only survived because it's in Middle Earth.  It has the worst combat of any AAA MMO.  It's a single faction game in a world that has a very interesting evil faction.  PVP was a last second addition that has gotten little to no attention and they can't even be bothered to release the expansions when the end game content is ready for it.

     

    It's a mess and an embarrassment.  It's sad that an MMO in the greatest fantasy IP is so damn boring and non immersive.  

  • xalvixalvi brooklyn, NYPosts: 329Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    It's a weak game that has only survived because it's in Middle Earth.  It has the worst combat of any AAA MMO.  It's a single faction game in a world that has a very interesting evil faction.  PVP was a last second addition that has gotten little to no attention and they can't even be bothered to release the expansions when the end game content is ready for it.

     

    It's a mess and an embarrassment.  It's sad that an MMO in the greatest fantasy IP is so damn boring and non immersive.  

     

    Well said, the only thing LOTRO has going for is its IP. Even with its awesome IP look how it is failing lol, never knew a company could possibly fail for having such a hudge ip such as LOTR.

     

    @MMOGAMER, as long as pvp is in LOTRO it is part of the game. IDC if it is not their priority which in fact you are wrong now, because they said they are now going to be revamping and changing pvmp throughout the year. If PvP is in the game and it is pay2win well you can catagorize it as a pay2win game. Don't bother replying to this post though because i couldn't care less what you are going to say next, to me you are just a fanboy who can't look past how lotro is such a bad game in terms on everything but the PVE lore which noone can mess up on, its fricking lotr.

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor London, ONPosts: 576Member
    I've started playing on the Laurelin server, and it is the first time in an MMO since EQ2 came out that I have been totally immersed in the world, lore, characters, conversations with other players, and environment. It feels like to me a massive NWN world, it reminds me of the rp server I played on in NWN. Nah it doesn't have insane graphic details and options, no glare bloom hdr and all that jazz, but what it does have, is real jazz, the shit that matters to someone who, like me can loose themselves in the world, which is great. It's a totally underappreciated MMO, and RPG.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

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