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The Golden Age of MMOs, What Do You Miss Most?

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Comments

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    I don't believe the golden age of MMO's has even happened it.  The first generation of something is rarely the best. 

    image

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • rawfoxrawfox HamburgPosts: 647Member Uncommon

    Some users made a video recently, from a world i've been on for many years.

    It was my virtual home

    Now, after some years of futher investigation in cyberspace, i found many incredible and pretty places, but they had all no face, no meaning.

    There was no life, no personality.

     

    Now i am back Home.

    You have no idea, how deep i am connected to that world.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wzQ3M9QzUY

     

     

     

     

     

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,751Member Uncommon

    Grouping? Does that mean I might have to interact with other, other people! OMG as a respectable sociopath that’s the last thing I go online for.

    Don’t talk to me, don’t touch me and F* F* S* don’t ask to group with me. I play with my tinfoil hat on and know how dangerous all you guys are. PUGs kill. It is a well known fact that they do so stay away!...

    …Oh sorry I was getting carried away by Solo fever. Of course groups were hard to find, but do something about that and you have a MMO with camaraderie and the joy of a job well done as a team.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    Um...you could totally solo in EQ.

    Didn't say you couldn't, but I completely expected a knee-jerk reaction from the exEQers, so I don't fault you for not reading.

    It didn't FORCE you to group.

    Why is it that the exEQers will create thread after thread about going back to the way things were when you had to group to get things done (in a 'real' MMO, of course) but when they are shown that gameplay actually was in the minority across MMOs, they do a 180 and swear you could solo your way straight to cap.

    It didn't force you to group? I guess the people that agree with you just don't post on the internet ever.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member

    miss

    - community

    - reputation

    - focus on having one character (due to stiffer death penalties and longer periods of leveling)

     

    these still exist in all mmos but there used to be a higher emphasis on all 3

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,085Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vandal5627
    MMOS with Depth...MMOs these days are really shallow, all glitz and glamour with no soul.  Very forgettable.

    This

     

    Also miss grouping being more benefital than soloing

    No restriction on being able to attack NPCs with lots of different reputation

    A challenge

    No pointless tiny quests, i liked the realy quests that acualy took some work to finish.

  • viddsterviddster DerbyshirePosts: 213Member Uncommon

    The main thing I miss as alot of people here have mentioned is an in-depth crafting system. It all seems to be about gathering and no actual crafting or crafting mini game. Gathering the hard materials should be difficult, but there is no complexity so everyone can do it. Another example of 'access to all' making something more dull.

     

    Hybrid classes. All new games seem to have different specs slots so everyone can play different roles at a click. This stops anyone being able to play a hybrid class and seriously lowers the different class choices as there are only do many damage dealer classes you can have. Plus it makes classes seem much more similar and less individual. What happened to paladins as half warrior half cleric, or druids that can do general roles.

     

    Crowd control classes that specialise in crowd control, not many of these about as they tend to cause pvp imbalance. What about PvE though, they were one of the most fun classes to play and useful for a group.

     

    The main problem is ease of access, MMO's need to specialise a bit more again, concentrate on PvP or PvE and stop trying to balance both as one tends to have a detrimental effect on the other. It is hard enough to make a massive game like an MMO without having to constantly try to sort two very different areas of a game out.

    image
  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     Reply to Response: I never played these games, but I was 11 when they came out, so therefore an expert on everything.

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    Yes, the genre was really hindered as it exploded 1000 fold in popularity with the addition of group and raid-centric games.

     

    1. EQ had forced dependency.
    2. MMOs as a whole got really popular.
    3. Forming a group therefore wasn't a hindrance to popularity.

    That's not only a ridiculous leap of logic but for the past ten years has proven historically false. The most notable example is the reduction in raid size from EQ 'golden age'  to present making content more accessible. Hell, even during those early years (2003 and earlier), most of the MMOs didn't require grouping.

    Group or crawl

    • EQ
    • DAoC

     

    Solo and Group content

    • Furcadia
    • Tibia
    • Kesmia
    • Graal
    • Ultima Online
    • Asheron's Call
    • There
    • Planet Entropia
    • Runescape
    • EVE Online
    • Second Life
    • Puzzle Pirates
    • Neocron
    • Anarchy Online
     
    The EQers seem to think that EQ defined the way MMOs were at the time. Your 'golden age' encompassed a lot more than just the masochistic monotony of EQ, but acknowledging that would shatter your illusions of The Way It Was.

     

    There are two reasons that MMORPG's are as popular as they are today.  The first is Everquest, and the second is World of Warcraft.  I didn't play all of those games you mentioned, but Ultima Online sure as hell had forced grouping, and I am pretty sure Asheron's Call (which I played very little of) does.  So does EVE - any FFA PVP game is going to have forced grouping.  You've listed 14 games there, and maybe EVE has matched the popularity of EQ1, 13 years later, with the notable exception of Second Life - but to me that was always more of a virtual chat room than an MMORPG.

    It's not "you must be in my a party" that defines grouping, it is the game mechanics.  EVE, UO, Shadowbane and others of it's ilk had forced grouping becuase of the PVP element.  WoW and EQ and others had forced grouping because of PVE elements.  You don't have to group in any of those games, but if you wanted to experience all it offers, you did need to, and part of "all it offers" is how to be get along wtih other players, so that they want to group with you.

    In many of today's games, you can get to max level, and do every bit of content (with maybe the exception of larger grouped raids) without ever talking to another player.  That's not playing a MMORPG, that's playing a single player RPG with some really great AI  NPC's running around.  There are 100's of games that are more fun than WoW and EVE, but WoW and EVE have maintained the social element so that it keeps people coming back.

    And back to your original "logical flaw" you think you found.

    This is your logic.

    1. Some indy developer made Furcadia

    2. Blizzard looked at that and said "We can do better"

    3. The market exploded because of Furcadia.

    4. The big development budgets are going to furry PC games nowadays, beacuse that's what Furcadia was.

    It's foolish to say that forced grouping hindered the industry.  WIthout AD&D, and it's online clone EQ (forced group games) there would barely be an industry in the first place (or it would just now be emerging, probably drive by the Lord of the Rings movie popularity.  Guess what they had in Lord of the Rings?  Oh yeah, groups.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    100% agree with OP. Good old days where MMO's where about bringing people together rather than separate them.
  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    I also feel the same as the OP, except I'm not big on PVP
  • PsyMike3dPsyMike3d AthensPosts: 388Member Uncommon

    games are now made "Easy"...

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    2. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
    3. See number 1.
    4. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

     

    Why not just get rid of actually having to click ability buttons.  I mean, thats clearly too much effort.  We should just have to walk up to a mob and our character should know how to kill it himself.  You know, even that seems like too much.  Why should we have to actually walk up to the mobs, we should just be able to click a point on the ground and the mobs start spawning in front of us only as fast as our character can kill them.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon

    On another note, i'm really sick of the argument that MMO's are evolving and this is whats popular now.  Thats a load of crap.

    Calling todays MMO's and saying they're in the same vein as what REAL MMO's are, which were games like EQ, DAOC, UO, SWG, AO, is like saying that a Ford Windstar minivan is an evolution of a Ford GT Racecar.

    Are they both cars? yes.  Just like EQ and modern MMOs are both VIDEO GAMES.  But what they try to call MMORPGS today are NOT MMORPGS.

    MMORPGS today are basically glorified online single player rpgs.  Its the equivalent of playing Final Fantasy 7 but with a little chat box so they can claim its somehow "multiplayer".

    They're a bastardization, not an evolution.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • paulythebpaulytheb Wauwatosa, WIPosts: 261Member Uncommon
    I miss filling the guild castle up with bears while no one was at home and then waiting for the cries of ," Who keeps letting all the damn bears in here !" over Irc.

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    2. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
    3. See number 1.
    4. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

     

    Why not just get rid of actually having to click ability buttons.  I mean, thats clearly too much effort.  We should just have to walk up to a mob and our character should know how to kill it himself.  You know, even that seems like too much.  Why should we have to actually walk up to the mobs, we should just be able to click a point on the ground and the mobs start spawning in front of us only as fast as our character can kill them.

    Yep. I'm always impressed when someone argues for stripped-down gameplay. "Give me less game!"

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    2. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
    3. See number 1.
    4. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

     

    Hey look, it's a player that started with WoW.

    Seriously:

    1.  This is what CREATED community.  Group finders and 90% of the content being soloable have DETROYED it.

    2.  There were times that it was a pain, but making them permanent is just lazy.  It was done so that the WoW style of playing/questing could be made easier because the player would no longer have to monitor his buffs and have to stop killing just to get re-buffed.   I would gladly welcome them back in a game just to hear the WoW generation cry about it.  God forbid you have to pay attention to something not provided via an add-on or which ability is next in the rotation.

    3. See #1

    4.  Kind of agree here.

    image
  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    2. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
    3. See number 1.
    4. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

     

    Why not just get rid of actually having to click ability buttons.  I mean, thats clearly too much effort.  We should just have to walk up to a mob and our character should know how to kill it himself.  You know, even that seems like too much.  Why should we have to actually walk up to the mobs, we should just be able to click a point on the ground and the mobs start spawning in front of us only as fast as our character can kill them.

    Yep. I'm always impressed when someone argues for stripped-down gameplay. "Give me less game!"

    I can't wait for one of the newer gamers to actually want to log in for the first time and create a toon that already is level caped and outfitted with the best gear.  I mean, the games are so dumbed own now, that an embryo can raid and be successful, so why waste everyone's time with any content other than endgame.  Yeah, I'm being a little sarcastic... But only just a little.

    image
  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member

    I went ahead and copied my response in another post here since it is somewhat relative to the disc....er, argument....

     

    MMORPG's before 2004 did NOT force grouping. You could still solo, it was just harder, more time consuming, and less efficient to do so..unless you were also doing it for the chance at some lucky loot drop (Depending on the game. Which also depended on how loot tables were distributed in said game).

    If you really think about it...games such as WoW and Rift for instance almost force you to solo. Now you CAN group in these games, I know this...but it's tough to get groups unless you join some rabid hadcore raiding Guild...because no one wants to group since you can get almost everything alone, or if you aren't in that clique. No one wants to take the time to talk to others, group up and maybe chat and become friends you put on your friends list and look for for that content that may need some grouping.

    At least with more group oriented content MMORPG's people are more likely to group and discover community. AND they STILL have an option to solo at any moment they wish. The other way around, it is MUCH harder to get groups than to solo.

    I am not saying there shouldn't be solely group oriented MMORPG's, nor am I saying they should be solely solo oriented ones. They should have the ability to do both. But if anything...they should have a bit more group oriented features to them because to me that provides more of a balance and the option to do one or the other more freely with little or at least less of a wait.

     

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    I miss group gameplay because right now I am really disliking this solo mmo nonsense. I miss mmos with depth where I don't finish the game in 2 months.  Also being a part of a good guild and community I miss a lot too.
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  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    I went ahead and copied my response in another post here since it is somewhat relative to the disc....er, argument....

     

    MMORPG's before 2004 did NOT force grouping. You could still solo, it was just harder, more time consuming, and less efficient to do so..unless you were also doing it for the chance at some lucky loot drop (Depending on the game. Which also depended on how loot tables were distributed in said game).

    If you really think about it...games such as WoW and Rift for instance almost force you to solo. Now you CAN group in these games, I know this...but it's tough to get groups unless you join some rabid hadcore raiding Guild...because no one wants to group since you can get almost everything alone, or if you aren't in that clique. No one wants to take the time to talk to others, group up and maybe chat and become friends you put on your friends list and look for for that content that may need some grouping.

    At least with more group oriented content MMORPG's people are more likely to group and discover community. AND they STILL have an option to solo at any moment they wish. The other way around, it is MUCH harder to get groups than to solo.

    I am not saying there shouldn't be solely group oriented MMORPG's, nor am I saying they should be solely solo oriented ones. They should have the ability to do both. But if anything...they should have a bit more group oriented features to them because to me that provides more of a balance and the option to do one or the other more freely with little or at least less of a wait.

     

    You are right about being able to solo in older MMOs, but I've always taken the forced to group phrase to mean, group for easier, more efficient leveling and better loot.  A lot of casuals used to bitch in EQ that they should e able to accomplish what others could without grouping.  Then WoW came along and the rest is history as they say.

    image
  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    I went ahead and copied my response in another post here since it is somewhat relative to the disc....er, argument....

     

    MMORPG's before 2004 did NOT force grouping. You could still solo, it was just harder, more time consuming, and less efficient to do so..unless you were also doing it for the chance at some lucky loot drop (Depending on the game. Which also depended on how loot tables were distributed in said game).

    If you really think about it...games such as WoW and Rift for instance almost force you to solo. Now you CAN group in these games, I know this...but it's tough to get groups unless you join some rabid hadcore raiding Guild...because no one wants to group since you can get almost everything alone, or if you aren't in that clique. No one wants to take the time to talk to others, group up and maybe chat and become friends you put on your friends list and look for for that content that may need some grouping.

    At least with more group oriented content MMORPG's people are more likely to group and discover community. AND they STILL have an option to solo at any moment they wish. The other way around, it is MUCH harder to get groups than to solo.

    I am not saying there shouldn't be solely group oriented MMORPG's, nor am I saying they should be solely solo oriented ones. They should have the ability to do both. But if anything...they should have a bit more group oriented features to them because to me that provides more of a balance and the option to do one or the other more freely with little or at least less of a wait.

     

    You are absolutely right.  Previous MMO's didnt force grouping, they just heavily incentivized it via XP and loot bonuses.

    The problem is the ultra casuals whined and moaned and cried until they got their way, because in their eyes if someone can level even 1% faster than they can by grouping instead of soloing, then they view that as being FORCED to group.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    I miss discovery only

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,141Member Uncommon
    Except for pvp to which I could not care less actually I agree with OP. But if somebody ask me would I prefer LFG-ing on chat for 9 hours to play then 1 hour or I would prefer LFG-ing for 1 hour and play 9 hours ... surely response is second one. I miss, but is much better now.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Latronus
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

     

    1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
    2. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
    3. See number 1.
    4. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

     

    Hey look, it's a player that started with WoW.

    Seriously:

    1.  This is what CREATED community.  Group finders and 90% of the content being soloable have DETROYED it.

    2.  There were times that it was a pain, but making them permanent is just lazy.  It was done so that the WoW style of playing/questing could be made easier because the player would no longer have to monitor his buffs and have to stop killing just to get re-buffed.   I would gladly welcome them back in a game just to hear the WoW generation cry about it.  God forbid you have to pay attention to something not provided via an add-on or which ability is next in the rotation.

    3. See #1

    4.  Kind of agree here.

    Want to guess how much I've played WoW? -5 minutes in beta. Yeah, I started well before WoW. How about you start thinking like a sensible person instead of blurring out this "WoW generation" nonsense.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,633Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
    Originally posted by Goatgod76

    I went ahead and copied my response in another post here since it is somewhat relative to the disc....er, argument....

     

    MMORPG's before 2004 did NOT force grouping. You could still solo, it was just harder, more time consuming, and less efficient to do so..unless you were also doing it for the chance at some lucky loot drop (Depending on the game. Which also depended on how loot tables were distributed in said game).

    If you really think about it...games such as WoW and Rift for instance almost force you to solo. Now you CAN group in these games, I know this...but it's tough to get groups unless you join some rabid hadcore raiding Guild...because no one wants to group since you can get almost everything alone, or if you aren't in that clique. No one wants to take the time to talk to others, group up and maybe chat and become friends you put on your friends list and look for for that content that may need some grouping.

    At least with more group oriented content MMORPG's people are more likely to group and discover community. AND they STILL have an option to solo at any moment they wish. The other way around, it is MUCH harder to get groups than to solo.

    I am not saying there shouldn't be solely group oriented MMORPG's, nor am I saying they should be solely solo oriented ones. They should have the ability to do both. But if anything...they should have a bit more group oriented features to them because to me that provides more of a balance and the option to do one or the other more freely with little or at least less of a wait.

     

    You are absolutely right.  Previous MMO's didnt force grouping, they just heavily incentivized it via XP and loot bonuses.

    The problem is the ultra casuals whined and moaned and cried until they got their way, because in their eyes if someone can level even 1% faster than they can by grouping instead of soloing, then they view that as being FORCED to group.

    In UO, people regularly grouped up to run dungeons, PVP and do other activities. What were the xp and loot bonuses to doing so in UO?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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