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Found an interesting response over at massively in the comments:
You people are such shrills, it was a "technology demo". It was not alpha, it was not beta, it was a very, very simple demonstration of their "capability" to build the game. Expecting AAA graphics and gameplay from a tech demo is a little naive. Personally, I'm tired of having the next polished turd, which is a copy of the last polished turd, which I hate, and which ultimately fails, shoved in my face. Because investors won't put their money behind anything other than farmville, Kickstarter and similar options, are the only hope we have of getting something other than the next polished turd. Face it folks, if you want something different, YOU will have to invest in it, because mega-publishers won't.*
You people are such shrills, it was a "technology demo". It was not alpha, it was not beta, it was a very, very simple demonstration of their "capability" to build the game. Expecting AAA graphics and gameplay from a tech demo is a little naive.
The KS for Pathfinder is tricky because delivery in years and higher pledge levels of this mmo project and the presentation if you have not been following the blogs it does not stand out compared to other similar pitches promising the same thing.
But I'd highly recommend the blogs for a deep overview of the design intentions and how Goblin Works intend to get Pathfinder there.
Goblin Works Blog: https://goblinworks.com/blog/
PCGamer: Pathfinder Online’s second Kickstarter seeks to fast-track player-run kingdoms and more
Massively: Pathfinder Online begins second Kickstarter project
*ignoring titan for now!
Cross-post from Pathfinder Paizo Forums:
Kickstarter Community Thread: Player vs. Player Conflict The core design guideline for Pathfinder Online is "maximize meaningful human interaction". That principle informs every aspect of the game, in ways large and small. One of the most important impacts is that your character will be often at risk of encountering other characters in combat, "Player vs. Player". "Often At Risk" is a key phrase. You will not always be at such risk. There will be some times and some places where you will be safe from any unwanted PvP activity. In general this will be a condition within powerful NPC Settlements who have the ability to enforce peaceable relations between characters. There will be other places where the risk will be substantially reduced because the NPCs will be able to react to anyone who makes an unwanted attack against you fast enough to have a high likelihood of killing your attacker before they can kill your character, making such assaults highly uncommon. This kind of protection will primarily be provided when you are in an area near a powerful NPC Settlement. There will be some places where the NPC response will not be fast enough to stop an attacker from killing your character, but will be fast enough to ensure that the attacker dies as well. This makes it less likely that you will be attacked randomly; rather such attacks will be carefully planned and executed by groups with a sense for the risk/reward of their actions. This level of protection will exist on the edges of NPC controlled territory. Outside of NPC controlled territory, player character decisions will have a strong influence on how secure a given area is - or is not! We mention meaningful human interaction. The key is meaningful. Somebody ganking newbies without any consequences isn't meaningful. Somebody getting killed while they transport rare ore for the sword they are building, who then gathers some allies and goes after the attacker after putting a bounty on their head IS meaningful interaction. Both result in the death of a character. The first is something we don't want since it isn't meaningful, the second is something we totally want, because it IS meaningful. [...] We're happy to discuss this issue in more detail in this thread, and many members of the community will likely have their own opinions and experiences to share as well!
Kickstarter Community Thread: Player vs. Player Conflict
Cross-post from Paizo Forums:
Kickstarter Community Thread: Subscriptions & Microtransactions MMOs are a bit different than most video games because they have substantial ongoing operational costs in addition to the cost of their development, and so they require that players continue to pay to play the games after they're released. Pathfinder Online will be no different. There are two ways that most companies operate the business of their MMO; either subscription or microtransactions. Pathfinder Online is going to allow players to use both systems. If you wish to pay a flat monthly subscription that's automatically billed to your payment method, you'll be able to do that. Or, if you want to pay as you play in smaller incremental amounts, we'll enable you to do that as well using microtransactions. [...] Our goal is for you to be able to play the game at a cost that you're comfortable with, scaling up or down your level of participation based on your purchases. Our microtransaction system will also allow you to buy some consumables that will make playing the game a bit easier, items that you'll be able to use to make your character look different and interesting, mounts that are distinctive, and other ways of making you stand out from the crowd. Our commitment to the players is that nothing you can purchase with microtransactions will be mechanically superior to the materials created in-game through character activity. We are also intending to have a system where you can trade game-time with other players for in-game currency. We think systems like this, similar to the PLEX system created by CCP for EVE Online, address a lot of issues with real-money-trading and strikes a good balance between controlling the in-game economy and rewarding players for mastering the game and spending time playing and the interest of some players to increase their enjoyment of the game with real-money purchases. We're happy to engage with everyone to talk about these plans in as much detail as we can at this stage of development and to hear what the community thinks about this topic as well.
Kickstarter Community Thread: Subscriptions & Microtransactions
A few Kickstarter Announcements (not personally up to scratch on Pathfinder fluff/PnP rules, but the dungeons seem a good product):
Superstar Lineup for the Emerald Spire Announced:
>"I'm super excited to announce today the all-star lineup for the first 12 levels of the Emerald Spire Superdungeon":
Rich Baker (author of the Birthright campaign setting for D&D) Wolfgang Baur (CEO of Open Design, and legendary TSR designer) F. Wesley Schneider (Paizo Editor-In-Chief and creator of Ustalav) James Sutter (Paizo Fiction Editor and creator of Kaer Maga) Lisa Stevens (CEO of Paizo, and co-founder of White Wolf and Wizards of the Coast) Keith Baker (Creator of the Eberron campaign setting for D&D) Ed Greenwood (Creator of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting for D&D) Erik Mona (Publisher and co-creator of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting) Mark Rein-Hagen (Co-founder of White Wolf Publishing, author of Ars Magica, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Wraith: The Oblivion, and Changeling: The Dreaming) Jason Bulmahn (Lead designer of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and co-creator of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting) Frank Mentzer (Founder of the RPGA, co-author of The Temple of Elemental Evil, author of D&D boxed sets) James Jacobs (Creative Director and creator of the Pathfinder Adventure Path and Varisia)
& a "daily deal" on in-game items fluff also... From 16th Dec
Kick-a-thon, Cycle 2 — PART 07 - with Ryan Dancey (30mins, youtube)
Originally posted by Wenchesnmead they are not rewards they are a way to sell you junk to get your money, i mean guys look at the high end rewards i hope to God that if i pay 10000 dollars to a company for an investment i get more than a set of minis = Finally and most disturbing is the fact that this game wont be out til 2016 and so many folks are prepping and guilding up for it
I managed to format your post to be readable (separate lines) and cut the 2 questions out to respond to, which are very reasonably put:
1/ They are not selling junk to you (s), but there are people who have different values as per many other ks campaigns who do pay for such. I remember seeing coffee selling for a huge price and wondered why it cost so much: Civet poo coffee: The beans had passed through this animal for a unique flavor! Eg the art pledge level IS worth a lot to some people - who perhaps collect (fantasy) art - if it sells.
2/ If the ks is funded beta or early enrollment (as it's not an actual beta test) will see players play at beginning of 2014, assuming no major delays - remember it's sandbox and it will be lean launch.
Hope that is informative.
To address the general question, Pathfinder Online has plenty of risks of not working out, as with many mmorpgs, but I like the idea of fantasy EvE mmorpg design mixed with a fantasy version of Game Of Thrones mixed with the classic DnD style rpg adventure world stuff, personally.
If you read the design blogs (in front page) there is some very interesting design ideas.
Crowdforging #2: Poll: Kickstarter Land Rush Leaderboard:
The Kickstarter Land Rush Promotion This Leaderboard will determine the order that initial Settlements will be created in Pathfinder Online during the Early Enrollment period. After a suitable amount of time has elapsed in Early Enrollment for players to get a sense of the available territory and the relative merits of the initial Hexes available, we will conduct a draft for Territory. The Guild with the highest Membership total will draft first, the second highest Membership will draft second, etc. These Membership totals will be finalized as a part of the post-Kickstarter survey process so final totals will not be available until after that process has completed. This Leaderboard should give Guilds a sense of where they stand in relation to other Guilds during the Kickstarter and it will help them track how effective they've been at recruiting Guild members to join the promotion. The First Settlements During Early Enrollment we will not have the Territorial Control game mechanic implemented. During this period, Settlements will not face the threat of being displaced by hostile forces. Near the end of Early Enrollment we will be expanding the territory in the game to include a lot of unclaimed Hexes where players will be able to create new Settlements even if they were not participants in this Promotion. After a suitable interval, the Territorial Warfare system will be introduced, and Settlements will begin to vie with one another for Territorial Control. You'll be provided with a Guild Lodge in your Hex that you can restrict access to and probably some other early buildings as the Settlement system matures. The entire Settlement system will be implemented incrementally during Early Enrollment so issues of Settlement Charters, Settlement Alignments, Settlement Management, etc. will all be determined later as a part of the Crowdforging process and you need not worry about them for the purposes of this promotion. Until the system is more robustly implemented, these initial Settlements will not affect a character's ability to train skills and gain character abilities.
The Kickstarter Land Rush Promotion
Fear The Boot RPG - Podcast interview: Mark Kalmes, CTO - Goblin Works
Some intelligent questions by the interviewers (always good to see...) and broad discussion on Pathfinder Online with interesting examples of intended gameplay systems:
* (1:08) Some breaking news on the Pathfinder MMO: Mark tells us about the upcoming “Guild Land Rush”. * (5:26) Introducing Mark Kalmes. City of Heroes (and Villains), the Mastermind, and the game’s shutdown. Asheron’s Call and Meridian. * (11:49) Mark’s work in robotics. * (14:12) The relationship between Goblinworks and Paizo. * (15:58) How close will the MMO stick to the Pathfinder tabletop rules? The nature of a class-less, skill-based system. How characters advance, how they’re capped, and how new players can enter a world alongside well-established ones. * (32:51) Player-versus-player combat in Pathfinder Online. The reasoning behind the lack of PVE (or purely consensual PVP) options. The role of NPC hirelings. A player-based economy and the importance of inter-player relationships. * (46:37) Breaking into an established world. Finding a role for your character and a piece of land for your house. * (51:09) The consequences of character death. * (53:36) The relationship between the in-game and real-world economies. We also talk about active subscriptions versus playing on a lapsed subscription. The story of Second Life and the IRS. * (58:41) The number and structure of servers, and the number of accounts per server. Hurdles put in place to keep one guild from dominating the game world. * (1:02:17) How the casual and solo players fit into the order of things.
* (1:08) Some breaking news on the Pathfinder MMO: Mark tells us about the upcoming “Guild Land Rush”.
Added an info summary thread: Information & Media Summary
Latest update: Pathfinder Online: A Fantasy Sandbox MMO
Including Paizo's own contribution, it currently includes 42 products from 29 different publishers, with a total retail value of $230! Here is a list of what's currently in our PDF Superpack—publishers are still joining in, so this list could grow even bigger!
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Today we're announcing a number of incredible upgrades to the $35 Adventurer Reward Tier!Character Name Reservation:You'll be able to reserve the name of your first Pathfinder Online character! As as part of the post-Kickstarter survey process you'll be able to give us your first, second and third choices for your first character name. They'll be assigned in the order you first backed the project at the $35 Adventurer level or higher. (If all three of your choices are taken by earlier backers, we'll contact you to arrange for more options!) We reserve the right to limit the use of certain names for legal, marketing and community management reasons.The Pathfinder Tabletop RPG Experience:You'll receive a PDF of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook, and the Guide to the River Kingdoms sourcebook. Together these two books are a $23.98 value. The heart and soul of the Pathfinder Online game comes from its tabletop roots, and we're pleased to be able to bring you this benefit thanks to our friends at Paizo Publishing! We also encourage you to join the Pathfinder Society and find a regular gaming group in your area so you can start adventuring in the world of Golarion TODAY!Destiny's Twin:As a special feature of Adventurer accounts, you'll be able to have two characters training skills at the same time! While one character is learning how to master the martial arts and gain renown as a warrior, your other character can be learning the intricacies of the crafting system and earning a name as an industrial powerhouse! As long as your primary character is earning skill points, so will its counterpart - FOREVER! The value of this benefit could easily reach hundreds of dollars if you became a long-term player of Pathfinder Online.
(You will not be able to log in and play both of these characters at the same time)As always, if you pledge at a higher Reward Tier, and that tier includes the Adventurer Tier rewards, you'll get all these great benefits as well. Also note that the PDFs from this enhancement replace the PDFs in the PDF Superpack - they overlap and do not stack. And of course if you're backing at the Buddy or Guild levels, all the accounts in the Reward will each get these benefits!
*Updated the OP with a Sandbox Feature List:
SANDBOX FEATURES @ A GLANCE:
& more at the blogs: https://goblinworks.com/blog/
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
I do hope that they mak an annoucment about just that soon. I think that will pull a lot more support if they supported one or both of them at the launch of "Early Enrollment"!
Valinar of The Empyrean Order
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Update #33: Announcing Pathfinder Online: Pit Fight!
From the beginning, Goblinworks has been working to get our fans involved in the process of developing Pathfinder Online as early as possible so we can live up to the Pathfinder tradition of player involvement in the development process. In the fall of 2013 we'll be releasing a combat testing tool called Pit Fight! Our players can help us get a much wider range of combat data while getting a preview of combat in Pathfinder Online. Pit Fight will be a stand-alone, single-player experience. Pit Fight will put the player through a number of gladiatorial battles, fought in the newly constructed Bonepit Arena in Thornkeep. Players will be able to get a sneak preview of our combat design and help us shape its development through PvE conflict against various NPC opponents. Initially, players will be using a limited number of prebuilt characters beginning with Fighters but expanding over time to involve other classes, combat styles, etc. Players will be able to try a handful of scenarios we specifically want to test, but over time we’ll add more characters, more customization, and more scenarios. Players will be able to see what aspects of combat they most enjoy and plan their advancement path once Pathfinder Online launches. We plan to release Pit Fight in Fall 2013. We are finalizing the platforms we can support but we anticipate the baseline will be a Unity Web App.
From the beginning, Goblinworks has been working to get our fans involved in the process of developing Pathfinder Online as early as possible so we can live up to the Pathfinder tradition of player involvement in the development process.
Something that might help, if you have tabletop only friends I did a breackdown of how pledging for the tabletop only stuff is a great deal.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Originally posted by GwapoJosh I'm going to throw down a $100 tomorrow. I really hope they make the $1,000,000 mark! It would be my dream mmo..
I had a dream once...
That a group of real RPG vets and producers created a true high fantasy sandbox mmorpg. After the game released and all the mmorpg fans realized what they had been deprived of over the past 10 years, band together and stormed the studios of all the themepark console cash grab corporate suits and held them hostage until they agreed to quit the buisness for good.
Great sounding game ideas and a well built team. Never would have known about it if it didn't pop up in the recent posts section.
Pardon my ignorance, but, what happens if they don't reach their goal? Is it an all or nothing kind of thing or they make due with what they have collected so far?
Originally posted by salsa41 are you have problem ?
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)