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Originally posted by Boneserino I was thinking of starting a thread but this seems a good place. Normally I solo or play with a friend. Last night I was playing Fallen Earth and thought, why don't I ask if someone needs any help and see what happens. So I put out a message asking if anyone could use some help and sure enough a guy ( I think) says yea , I could use some better equipment. So we compare equipment and I say, yea I think I can make you some better stuff than that. I pointed out that a belt, some boots and a jacket would be a big improvement. So off I go to the next town and I start crafting him the belt and boots. I figure what the hell I will use my own mats for that. As I am crafting he comes on and asks "Do you have any money, I am really low and would like to buy this knife" I ask him how much and it is an amount that he could easily have made himself in about 30 minutes of scavenging. So I say sorry, I am not a bank, and explain this to him. Finally I have his boots and belt ready and tell him he can come and pick them up. His first words to me.... " No jacket? " So I politely say, "you would have to contribute a little to that if you want it" And as I say "Cya mate!" he goes off into the night without even a thank you. And I think to myself, "That was so rewarding I can't wait to do it again!!"
I've had similar experiences.
"If you give a mouse a cookie he's gonna ask for a glass of milk."
Don't give away free stuff. It never ends well.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.-- Herman Melville
As a die-hard soloer, I feel:
The best grouping experience you'll ever have in an MMO is better than the best soloing experience.
The worst grouping experience you'll ever have in an MMO is far, far worse than the worst soloing experience.
Originally posted by Czanrei Call me traditional, but I enjoy grouping because its an MMO, not a single-player video game. I cannot stand the direction modern devs are going with making soloing optional and even going so far to allow players to join multiple guilds.
In Ultima Online, waaaaay back in '97, I did a lot of soloing. I was a part of two guilds as well, one was a evil RP guild, and one was an Anti-pk guild.
This doesn't mean i never grouped, we did a lot of "raids" (not your traditional raids), and a lot of dungeon crawling, but make no mistake, i did a lot of soloing.
It was more or less the same before that in Neverwinter Nights, and after in SW:G and DAoC.
Wouldn't the average normal human being at least offer something in return?? What is with players that know what it takes to craft something yet just expect you to give it to them?
And not even a thank you! For something free?
I am sorry but if people are like this in a game what are they like in real life?
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Grouping was never the traditional way to engage in MMO content. Actually, some of the early MMOs did not even have a grouping option.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There are some inherent problems with grouping that, more or less, have always existed in MMOs and very few developers have tried to overcome. They all stem from the same tired old "either/or" development of content: You have either solo content or 5- man, 10-man, 20-man, etc, content. There is very little content available in MMOs that scale-up or down to accomodate fluid groups in a satisfying way. It has been tried: WAR did it with PQs, Rift's rifts and GW2's dynamic events are all attempts to address this. The problem is that none of them have nailed it and in all cases, they have been implemented as "third options" instead of full-fledged group-content replacements.
The standard group problems of wasting a lot of game time waiting for the group to form and more wasted time waiting for the group to reform after someone leaves are still there. Add to that the competitive nature of reward drops--especially class-limited drops--which can often leave you feeling like you just wasted 3 hours of your life you'll never get back...
What's needed is scalable fluid content that can be done with 2-40, depending on who's around and having rewards proportionate to your time commitment and participation, not just a random luck of the draw where the guy who was there for 20 minutes can end-up getting the reward and those who were there for 5 hours get nothing useful.
The purpose of grouping in an MMORPG is not to be sociable, chat and meet new people--those are the fringe benefits you get on the side. The purpose has to be inherent to the game and has to be worth your time and effort. People group less these days not because they are less sociable-- they don't do it because it generally sucks and is a waste of time compared to soloing. And this is the fault of the content developers who segregate the core game content.
I really think the mmos of today are way to afraid of making group content for leveling etc. Right now they mark them as "DANGEROUS, REQUIRE GROUP, BEWARE!!!"
I think the biggest problem with getting a group today is that it require everyone to have the same quests. AO solved this beautifully with team missions, and other older MMOs just had areas where you needed groups to kill.
Anyway.. If I didn't enjoy grouping up I'd play a single player RPGs
It depends on the game, but for the most part, yes... IF I'm sufficiently experienced in said game, have SOME knowledge of what to expect in the scenario (nothing worse than joining a group and not fully knowing your role and what is expected of you).
Time constraints can be a problem, so I don't raid... I never have the time to spend 2, 3 or more hours rooted in front of my computer, so I miss a lot of supposedly good content and items/gear, unfortunately.
Grouping nowadays amounts to your mom (devs pathetic grouping mechanics) telling you to ask the smelly kid to go with you because she doesn't want you to go to the comic book store alone.
Grouping should be because you personally feel so excited about going to the comic book store that you want to grab a few friends and make a adventure out of it.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I love grouping, but I won't group if it kills my rate of exp. What I need then is a game that promotes grouping as a viable and superior option to leveling up alone, I like to embrace the MMO element...
In a themepark though soloing is vastly superior - traveling to end game is best done alone in 95% of the game out right now. Do something as simple as remove the idea of end game from the situation, and suddenly soling is viable, but so is grouping up, hell grouping up will get the job done faster whatever it is.
Originally posted by Enerzeal I love grouping, but I won't group if it kills my rate of exp.
I'm actually the opposite, I WILL group even if it kills my rate of exp. or if there are no rewards.
To be grouping, with the right group, is fun in and of itself.
When with a good group of people.
As far as gear. experience and the like, since I have no problem soloing and prefer buying my gear (as long as the game allows this) then I can do that on my own time.
I enjoy grouping up with people in mmorpgs and I also like to be able to go solo when I feel I want to.
What I don't like grouping for is Raiding. I raided for years in WoW and despised it. I despised the gear grinding in raiding.
In DAOC Pre-ToA I loved grouping up with people, the dungeons weren't instanced, you just went and grabbed a spot in the dungeon and sat there killed with your group for as long as you wanted. People got to know each other, we knew each other and the community as a whole were more friendly than in todays mmo's because of this.
Today in dungeons, it's is all about the phat, l337, loot you're gonna get, or the tokens you need from it, etc. People don't get to enjoy the grouping up part.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMkDark Age of Camelot
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots moreRelatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots moreNow Playing: NoneHope: None
Depends on the activity.
Instanced content? Nah. Not interested in things that have no affect on game world. I feel people are just there for loot anyways.
World events/pvp/pve? Absolutely.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Originally posted by tollbooth Why the hell are all you people playing mmo's if you don't like grouping? Someone should make a morpg that is like 50 people coop so you bitches can go play a different genre. I only want to work if i get to pick and choose my co-workers, i only want to live in new york if i get to pick and choose who lives there too. I have no social skills and can't handle uncomfortable situations... is all i'm seeing in these post. Just blows my mind how you people ended up playing mmo's.
Yes because how people choose to play an entertainment product in their downtime can be directly compared to things they need to do to survive and get ahead in their real life.
If you haven't realized by now that that soloing has always been an effective option in the MMO world, going right back to the beginning, and that there is far far more to do in an MMO than just group, then give up any argument you have because your observation and reasoning skills are too lacking to have any effect.
I loved grouping back in the day with games like EQ, DAoC, FFXI, etc., because it was easier to gain levels, a lot of the content wasn't soloable, and if it was a good group, talking with them made grinding mobs in an area for hours less of a chore.
Nowadays I avoid grouping unless I'm heading into a dungeon that requires it. It's just easier to get most things done solo. I wouldn't really have the time anymore for a game that forced me to look for a group -- especially when it was required for almost everything like in FFXI. I look back fondly at FFXI, but there were far too many times where I'd be messaging people and shouting in chat for hours looking for a group and it never happened. Sometimes i'd wait for hours, finally get into a group, the group would wipe once and the group would break up.
So there. Forced grouping can be frustrating, but not enough incentive to group is kinda boring, in my opinion.
with unknown cant say thats is fun
but after a while grouping with same people that share the same thoughts and share respect each other is what MMO is all about.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERATried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...Currently Playing: GW2
Nytlok Sylas80 Sylvari Ranger
Originally posted by SwampRob I like grouping up only if it's entirely optional. By that I mean not just content. If there are tangible benefits to my character's power for being in a guild, then I consider that mandatory. "You can't attempt this task unless you have at least X friends with you..." is my most hated statement in MMOs. If I group up because the game demands it, them I'm resentful the entire time I'm in that group. That's bound to make me more irritable and less welcoming of others. I can determine my willingness to even attempt a new game with two questions: 1. Is PvP optional? If not, I'm gone. 2. Is there forced grouping? If yes, I'm gone.
You have read my mind. :-)
I get a kick out of reading the golden age of mmos thread and this one.
Yeah mmos don't seem like they have any depth anymore, yet strangly they're all full of people who never want to talk or do anything with anyone else now....weird how they went down hill.